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greensyster
12-07-2008, 01:41 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Dec-2008/135872-AutumnGoddess_wc.jpg

GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: Tali - Autumn Goddess
Year Created:
Medium: Oil
Surface: Linen
Dimension: 16 x 12
Allow digital alterations?: Yes!

MY COMMENTS:
After seeing the amazing portrait Graham did of Tali in the Christmas Swap, I asked her if she would become my next victim so I could get some portrait experience. Thankfully she agreed and has provided invaluable assistance. My vision employs her character and essence into a framework of Autumn filling the hemisphere but with the hint of Winter's mauve lights arriving. My aim was to capture the physical presence with the greatest emphasis on the spirit of the subject.

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
Did I pull it off?

konsu
12-07-2008, 02:00 AM
hello,

everything is great except for the ear... it is too low.

konstantin

tali
12-07-2008, 02:33 AM
Yes, yes yes!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: Ok, I’m calming down. First the critique, you pulled off the cooled values on the left expertly! The composition as well as the light/dark balance was well done from the very beginning enforcing your concept every step of the way. While orange and violet do not normally “play nicely together” as LA would say, you have pulled off their contrasts quite well by incorporating the colors all throughout the painting, creating an unusual and pleasing harmony. The edges are varied and move the viewer’s eyes nicely all around the painting. The expression in very much my own, and your personal passion evident. Possible improvements (please note I said POSSIBLE not MUST DO) would include softening the edges in the shadow side of the face, mainly left side of the lips and the left ear lobe (viewer’s). I love the highlight in the hair and wouldn’t mind seeing a few more of like temperature and value in the face where two planes meet at the top of the brow, tip of the nose and top of the cheek. I see you’ve already done this, but not with the same confidence as the hair. Don’t be afraid to break free from the canvas on the face as well. Highlights make skin look moist and alive! Likeness wise, I think you have nailed it with the exception of my funny chin that has quite a sever groove/shadow in it under any lighting—no light can every reach it!!!! :lol: As to my nose, I am grateful for the softening, yet it’s very much my own, only in a quieter way. :wink2:

Now for my personal feelings. You’ve been able to capture a very different angle of me than Graham, though the contemplative nature is still evident. I think the difference is that you have invited the viewers IN with the gaze, focusing more on openness and compassion; while Graham focused more on my Sabra, or Prickly Rose side. Both are true representations, but from different points of view. This is very interesting to me, since you both had the same references, and same “facts” about my life, yet even in our e-chatter we cover different topics. I wonder if it’s a gender thing—would be interesting to think about….LOL, there I go again! The fall/winter, warm/cool is much like Grahams dual reflective Talis in different temperatures. Yet you chose the softer light aspect, where he chose hit-you-in-the-face full on sunlight. You have presented a woman that eagerly invites all to come and look closer, and join her in her fun, but not toooo much fun:eek: ; yet she seems comfortable being alone with the wind and the trees as well. She is as pretty as I would like to think I am when I’m not looking in the mirror:smug: . I couldn’t be prouder of such a painting. Thank you for inviting me on your little journey! :heart: :heart: :heart: Sorry for the novel, your personality seems to bring them out in me.

talison
12-07-2008, 02:41 AM
Forgive for being cheesy, but this portrait is: “Practically perfect in every way.”:thumbsup:

greensyster
12-07-2008, 02:48 AM
First respons must go to the Main Man so - Talison - thank you so much - cheesy is good - I love you cheesy! Seriously tho if her eldest son approves then even allowing for the unchisselled chin etc, I musta dun sumfin good!

Bright Eyes
12-07-2008, 02:52 AM
Forgive for being cheesy, but this portrait is: “Practically perfect in every way.”:thumbsup:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, all I can say is that this is Tali! You really captured her. Enough said, thats just it. Its her.

Corby
12-07-2008, 02:53 AM
I haven't the facts for analysis of personality captured, but I can say, visually speaking that this is a beautiful portrait. It has a helping of Oz mixed in I would say...

talison
12-07-2008, 02:59 AM
First respons must go to the Main Man
Cool:cool:

tali
12-07-2008, 02:59 AM
Marie, you've done AWESOME!! You are very stubborn in only hearing the critique in me and not giving heed to my other words. This portrait is one of the nicest compliments I have ever received! How can I be any clearer? Trust me, I can write whole volumes in critiquing my own work, so a novel is quite good. REALLY!!! Please accept that I love this!!!

greensyster
12-07-2008, 03:04 AM
Konsu Many thanks for your comment :) and I will triple check that ear but I suspect it is just one of Tali's deformities!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tali - :) Thank you for such a complete C&C - much valuable info contained therein. Not sure how I missed your distinctive chin line cleft mark thingie - I will fix that indeed. I am so delighted that you assess I have captured something true of you as that is my aim in proceeding along this portraiture effort - To go where no camera has been before! Captain Kirk

greensyster
12-07-2008, 03:10 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, all I can say is that this is Tali! You really captured her. Enough said, thats just it. Its her.

There seem to be a goodly number of really lovely ladies in this little town of Wallisa! What a lovely compliment to pay to my work - I am so happy Kimberley - thank you. :cat:

Corby - :) Thank you for such a welcome comment coming from a man who knows 'his stuff'

Tali - Shuddup dear, I am already over the moon that you didn't tell me to gesso over and start again! :D

tgsloth
12-07-2008, 08:35 AM
Ahem. I first became aware of you when you did a portrait of a member of parliament and it had a lot of problems which were helpfully batted around on the forum. You made and posted numerous improvements. But to have improved this much is just rediculous. Tell the truth now...you sold your soul to the Devil in return for wildly enhanced artistic skill. Do you have the Devil's email?

Anita Murphy
12-07-2008, 08:42 AM
Fabulous piece of work - I love the oranges and purples and have to disagree with tali - I think they work very well together. The light on her left jawline (our left) is perfect and the hair is fantastic. Lovely concept! I have to say that for me it is the little detail of the earring that absolutely makes this piece - beautifully painted! Well done!

Billycourty
12-07-2008, 09:06 AM
I didnt want to wade into this love fest with a negative, but then i didnt want to be a shrinking violet either.

I cant like the eyes sorry, i dont understand why they are doubled ( i suppose to give a dreamy touch).

But i seek to engage the eyes of a portrait and this leaves me engaging an earring instead.


Jaymee

MRSBB
12-07-2008, 10:06 AM
Hi Marie. Operation or not, I have to tell you you have pulled off a successful portrait. I hope you know this is killing me to type. I love everrything about it, The highlights on the hair are wonderful as is the earing. I have been watching this all along and also what you artists did in portraiture. My only suggestion is to look at the painting of Tali you posted on 12/01. The eyes are much more alive in that version, IMO. Now if I could rent your magic paintbrushes, it would please me very much. You should be over the top with this painting............Keep having fun.........Lenore

tgsloth
12-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Billy interrupts the love fest! While I still think it's a hell of a portrait, I'm equally sure that Marie appreciates a critical comment as she's on a rather steep path of improvement and it's those judgments which help. Because of Billy's comment, I took another look at the image and focused on the eyes and wondered if a catchlight might help. Here's a photoshop with added catchlights in what I think is the correct spot, lighting wise. Arguably it sparkles it up.

Incidentally does not calling Tali an Autumn Goddess constitute pandering?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2008/124239-135872-AutumnGoddess_wc.jpg

Billycourty
12-07-2008, 12:48 PM
Oh yeah the name.... I wasn't going to mention that, but i might have rolled my eyes once or twice.

Yep thats dunnit...now i will only get bad reviews on my works.

About the changes Tgsloth:

I am wondering why my eye so RAPIDLY slides from her eyes to the earring.

I love the earring but eyes should be the most beautiful jewels in a portrait.

I am wondering if its the darkness of the purple on the end of the earring that causes my eye to settle so comfortably there, as if my brain thinks thats the solid eye.

The dark purple is in the dress, the earring and the left top.

The eyes could be darkened to match the earring but i would fleck GOLD in the eye instead, to keep the "holy light effect". I think you can do this because you have golden light reflections in her hair and also the earring is bathed in golden light as well as being golden.

But this could well be the ramblings of a madwoman.

Jaymee

tgsloth
12-07-2008, 01:01 PM
Typings of a madwoman? Certainly not ramblings. Anyhow, I recall that the earring came in for both praise and criticism. I'm usually of the One Center of Interest Rule (in my marriage, for example, my wife is the One Center of Interest)
So the earring does compete and should, forsooth, be banished to a lower value and some blurring.

Billycourty
12-07-2008, 02:14 PM
Well actually LOL i like the picture better when I expect the earring to be the focal point.

Maybe it should be renamed Girl with a gold earring.

So its a kinda heads up.

Sorry i do ramble when i type, my 9 yo tells me so and makes me repeat what i mumble to cement my insanity :).


Jaymee

greensyster
12-07-2008, 05:22 PM
Wow - if I can go to bed every night and wake up to such a wonderful range of comments....how good would that be!?! Thank you collectively for taking the time to consider and to comment and I applaud the forum for what it gives to others such as me. :clap: :clap:

Bob -:music: Memories ... :music: Ah yes the MP - and the incredible journey you took me on - now that was a steep invaluable learning curve! That canvas went to the fire but not without being a fabulous experience of long distance learning! I thank you for the compliment and hope and pray you're right cos I have started what might be generously called 'a tad late' ! :) ... or should I say :evil: And the best bit is that I know if I hadn't pulled it off you would say - that's why Open forum is so invaluable.

greensyster
12-07-2008, 05:28 PM
Anita - :) Gosh I love reading your comment - hang on whilst I read it again! :) My mind INSISTED on that light on the left jaw line (in image). And since I am a fledgling devotee of Munsell colour theory, I also felt the russet orange with the magenta purple would convey the feeling I wanted. So you are a GREAT critic!

greensyster
12-07-2008, 05:42 PM
Lenore - I suspect you rejoice in other people's successes more than most so thank you indeed. It has been great fun taking the 'knowns' and find the route to the untrodden path for this portrait. I know what you mean about the earlier eyes but 'in the flesh' they were as though with summer light and I had to make them for Autumn - do so hope your op has gone well!


Jaymee - What a dear wag you are! :lol: In your ramblings there is some madness of value. I tossed and turned and bit the head of passing loving husbands before getting the balance I wanted not the image that 'may' be expected. I want the sense of Autumn which to me is a magically season never experienced unless far away from my home. When I have lived in lands that have Autumn the light is very soft diffused (in my memory of course) so no glints to add the easy sparkle - this I hoped to find another way.

The only change I will be making is to return the deep groove in her chin which somehow I had 'lost'. But I always take on board constructive comments and if I don't agree with you, it doesn't mean to say you are wrong. And just as a PS, let me assure you that one great thing about Open Forum is that they give everyone an even shake with c&c.

I suspect that if this thread seems like a lovefest it is purely that some folk know how hard I have tried to get from Zero to 40 in a short time and many of them have pushed, shoved, dragged me along the way.

greensyster
12-07-2008, 05:54 PM
Typings of a madwoman? Certainly not ramblings. Anyhow, I recall that the earring came in for both praise and criticism. I'm usually of the One Center of Interest Rule (in my marriage, for example, my wife is the One Center of Interest)
So the earring does compete and should, forsooth, be banished to a lower value and some blurring.


Bob - Where to begin... You are very right - I value constructive criticism above all else on this forum and rely upon receiving it. As to the name of the painting - within every confident woman there lives a goddess of some realm. Not that I imagine many of us literally think of ourselves that way but hey if a painter wants to show me as Samothrace (with head of course) I am NOT going to object. Let's call it artistic license from an era before ugly was good. :)

I did those eye sparkles a couple of times and then took them out. And I know why you took the time to photoshop and post and I appreciate it Bob.

And PS - The earring stays! :lol: :lol:

talison
12-07-2008, 08:26 PM
According to my scientific reasoning, no artist is perfect. Therefore, no painting is perfect.

But art is not a science. If it was, every painting would fall into one of two categories: Trash and Boring.:lol:

According to my artistic reasoning, a painting becomes perfect when it looks beautiful with mistakes. Everything has mistakes. Therefore, when a painting becomes flawless it ceases to be real.

Not one person here has doubted that this painting is beautiful. Therefore, this portrait is perfect with its mistakes.:clap:

tali
12-07-2008, 09:33 PM
The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, I see.
I hope you will all forgive me for being a little protective of MY OWN PORTRAIT! And I hope Marie will forgive me for not just “shudding up dear” and doing graffiti on her lovely painting of moi as an attempt to push her further forward at lightening speed. Marie, these are simply suggestion, pick and choose which you apply if any. As I’ve said before this is wonderful as is. I have come to the conclusion that does not go as far with us visual types as showing. What is lacking is just further form. I did not change any proportions with the exception of extending the mouth to the left as it is foreshortened on the viewers right and needed to extend a bit further. I did my best to adhere strictly to Marie’s concept and use only colors from her own palette.

Original:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2008/140629-orig.jpg
with graffiti:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2008/140629-rev.jpg
only graffiti on neutral background:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Dec-2008/140629-justrev.jpg

tdog49
12-07-2008, 09:59 PM
hmmmmm

hmmmmm...

Well it is titled appropriately, as September is Talya's favorite month. I, myself am more of a June/July person. While I dearly love the beginning of the NFL season and moose hunting, I truly do not like winter (except for Nov 20 thru Dec 31) which is just around the corner (October) up here.

As to the portrait itself.... I have stared and stared and let my eyes wander all over it and, with the exception of the lion's mane, I do not "see" Talya in it. Curiously I do see her mother though.... ( oh Lord help me...)

Perhaps, it is because my mental image of Talya froze 18 yrs ago...(November in Mesa is just perfect!)

greensyster
12-08-2008, 01:33 AM
It is a very good thing that I am confident enough in the professionalism of Tali that when I send her this painting I know, without the slightest doubt, she will keep her brushes off it and accept that what arrives is what I wanted! :) But I bet it's gonna be hard for the micro manager! :lol: :lol:

tdog49 (possibly aka Troy) :wink2: I am sticking with the Main Man's verdict - Talison said I dun good! :)

Billycourty
12-08-2008, 03:15 AM
Greensyster: I just want to say that my lovefest comment wasn't said with disdain or rancor. Sort of just use as a way to push into the circled wagons of your mentors.

I understand absolutely what autumn means to you as i have the same relationship with it (....2timing season!).

And a bath of pure afternoon golden light, with the crisp air and a fresh pale blue sky... dappled sunlight...

Ahh umm...well you know :).

I dont know what a wag is....is it someone that is like a art snob?

Thankyou for sharing your work.

Jaymee

greensyster
12-08-2008, 03:52 AM
Jaymee - Treasure my mentors cos they could be yours too :) Now as to the matter of a 'wag' - it means someone with unexpected and enjoyable humour. And truly the 'lovefest' was taken in the spirit it was offered. Being very old (and having a bunch of hungry crocodiles at my disposal) I always assume folk are being pleasant ! *chuckle* I love that you commented - I was so reticent in commenting in the beginning that Corby had to poke me with what I still reckon was a cattle prod in order to get me to comment on others work. Now he cannot shut me up! :)

Billycourty
12-08-2008, 04:32 AM
I am glad you took it in the right spirit :).

I thought you did but then i was worried.

Um and about the mentors they are wonderful!

Lol

I am going to go paint soemthing having trouble expressing myself here.


Thanks again Green.