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Studio-1-F
10-07-2008, 08:49 PM
Has anyone tried these papers? --->

-- 'French Colors', "distributed by the famous french firm of Sennelier" (as per Creevy in his book (http://books.google.com/books?id=xu71tfuJcKcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Pastel+Book:+Materials+and+Techniques&sig=ACfU3U0rnCF-AboxtZlU1yDy4y1tTtwUwg) on page 30)
-- Matière Thick Rustic, " . . . another paper made in France and distributed by Sennelier . . . Made from recycled fibers, this heavy, gray, feltlike paper comes in a thick and thin weight. The thick weight is almost as thick as a board, yet very soft and pliable, more like a rug than a paper." (Creevy, p., 31)

I ran a quick search for these on NY Central's site and didn't find them. Has anyone seen and/or tried these pastel papers?

That "like a rug" part is intriguing.

Jan

BruceF
10-07-2008, 10:57 PM
I don't see either of those on Sennelier's website:
http://www.sennelier.fr/en/art_paper.php

How old is Creevy's book?

Studio-1-F
10-08-2008, 10:31 AM
How old is Creevy's book?
1991. [sigh] Oh well! I might send a note to NY Central and ask them. I will report back if I hear anything.

J

rankamateur1
10-08-2008, 10:59 AM
Creevy's book has copyright date of 1991 (great book). I wondered the same thing about "french colors" paper when I read it earlier this year. The only think I came up with is that Sennelier does offer a pastel paper in addition to their La Carte surface, so it's possible that its the same as the paper to which Creevy refers. Dakota sells it under their uncoated papers and labels it "Sennelier C4". But I'm just guessing so caveat emptor.

Deborah Secor
10-08-2008, 01:12 PM
A quick online search gave this, quoting Jimmy Wright in 2003:
When he prefers a fibrous texture, he chooses Matière Rustic paper from Sennelier and a similarly thick, gray, feltlike paper from Dieu Donné.
...so, if nothing else you could query him!

Deborah

PeggyB
10-08-2008, 01:14 PM
I'll ask Bill (Creevy), and get back to you asap.
Peggy

Studio-1-F
10-08-2008, 09:16 PM
I'll ask Bill (Creevy), and get back to you asap.
Peggy
Wow! Peggy, that would be great! Thank you!!

I also sent a note to Jimmy Wright. So we'll see. . . .

Jan

PeggyB
10-09-2008, 02:04 AM
OK Jan, here's Bill's reply.

Hi Peggy...

I'm not sure... but that wonderful paper may no longer be produced. It used to come in two thicknesses: one thick and one thinner. The thick sheet was about the thickness of a very heavy mat board. THAT was the sheet to use. When doing pastels, I myself, basically coated it with a diluted acrylic size or very thinned matt medium to cut down its absorbency and to keep the surface from flocking from too much pastel action. The Matiere had a wonderful "grip" of its own. No extra "grit" necessary. In fact that would have runined its unique beauty. Super soft pastels worked best on Matiere.

Anyway, after a while, I myself, started to again look around for more heavy Matiere Thick Rustic and could only find the thinner version. I was hearing that the thick sheet had been discontinued, with only the thinner Matiere still in production. Now I think both are gone.

Good papers come and go. My motto is to buy as many sheets of what you like whenever you find them. The same thing happened to Basingwerk paper which had been used for decades in lithograpy - probably the best drawing paper I've ever worked on. The guy who made it is now gone and Basingwerk went out with him. Its sad. Like Matiere, these wonderful papers rarely have substitutes. - - Bill

Maybe Jimmy will have a different answer, but since Bill and Jimmy are good friends I think maybe not. One can always hope though.

Peggy

Studio-1-F
10-09-2008, 10:24 AM
Thanks, Peggy! That advice from Bill about when you find something you love, buy as much as you can is outstanding, useful advice. (I always do that with eye shadow. Colors come and go almost monthly, it seems. . . )

I await Jimmy's response.

The "Dieu Donné" in his article that Deborah quoted is a papermaking atelier in Manhattan (http://www.dieudonne.org/main.cfm?chID=12&inc=aboutus). I am thinking that one good way to get these kinds of lush pastel papers is to either commission them or make them yourself. (Actually taking a papermaking workshop might be fun! Stinky and drippy, but fun.)

We have a pretty good papermaking studio here in town, called Pyramid Atlantic (http://www.pyramidatlanticartcenter.org/). I may go over there and consult with the paper gurus. I wish I had a sample piece of each of these French papers to take with me. To show to them. Verbal descriptions go only so far. On the other hand, they may know all about making specialty papers. We'll see.

Again, Peggy!!! Thanks for following up with Bill. That was great that you asked him for us, even though the news was not good. (Just out of curiosity, I wonder where he used to get that paper.)

Jan

Deborah Secor
10-09-2008, 10:50 AM
I made paper back in my college days and there's a lot to it, but it's really fun to do, given the supplies and tools needed. We made cotton paper from locally grown cotton (in Bakersfield CA.) We beat it up in an old washing machine retrofitted with giant baffles, then screened it into big sheets. Felting is another thing altogether, though thick cotton sheets can have a deep fibrous tooth. Over the years I decided that making pastels or paper was best left to the pros. I'd rather spend my time making paintings... but I couldn't agree more that when you find what you like, load up a lot of it because you never know!

Deborah

PeggyB
10-09-2008, 04:05 PM
Again, Peggy!!! Thanks for following up with Bill. That was great that you asked him for us, even though the news was not good. (Just out of curiosity, I wonder where he used to get that paper.)

Jan

Well since Bill lives in NYC, I'd guess it was at any one of a number of art supply stores. He may or may not remember now since he gets supplies where ever he finds them. - like most of us! :)

Peggy