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hamsterdance
08-26-2008, 05:36 AM
I am trying to get a better handle on values. I've always been very dissatisfied with my paintings, especially vis-a-vis my drawings. It's so weird. Why I can get values better while drawing but muck it up with painting baffles me to no end.

So I've decided to try something different. I'm doing some toned underpainting before moving on to the Dead Layer (I'm trying to adapt the 7 Layer Flemish technique to acrylics). I've never done any kind of underpainting before. I've always painted alla prima (and suck at it too - hence trying something new).

This is on 8x24 unprimed Strathmore 400 series 140 lb cold press. I used Yellow Ochre for toning the paper and burnt umber for the nautilus. I haven't added any white highlights yet. Figured it'd be better to catch and correct errors now before moving on to anything else.

I'd be grateful for any C&C.

I've attached the reference I'm using for this painting.

Thankshttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Aug-2008/36060-Nautilus_Umbral_Layer_2.JPG

OkeeKat
08-26-2008, 08:11 AM
I think you are doing well.. its much better then the photo even!!:clap:

arl
08-26-2008, 09:56 AM
I too think it is going well.

ColorMyWorld
08-26-2008, 09:58 AM
I like what you've done so far.
The shadow in the light part (where it meets the dark part) seemed to me to be 2 values. So I took your ref and made it higher contrast to check.
You may also have missed some of the darks in the upper middle of the spiral.
But this is off to a great start. I'm looking forward to seeing the next step.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Aug-2008/48177-Untitled-1.jpg

mpattie
08-26-2008, 10:09 AM
Very interesting. I looks like you are off to a great start. Watching to see how this progresses.
Pat

susme48
08-26-2008, 12:22 PM
Pulliing up a chair!

howyadoin
08-26-2008, 01:41 PM
So far, so good. And Ann's got some great advice there.

hamsterdance
08-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Colormyworld, thanks for the monochrome! It makes the value difference so much easier to see. Now I see how the overall value of the inner spirals is much darker than the right. Darker than I thought. Why the addition of color messes with my ability to see values accurately I don't know but it's frustrating.

Thanks everyone for the kind words. I've got a long way to go but with C&C I hope to get better eventually.

edit: oops. I just realized I made a typo in my first post. This practice painting is on an 18x24 cold press sheet.

deadsam
08-26-2008, 07:32 PM
Looking good so far :)

Faded
08-26-2008, 08:19 PM
This is looking very good so far. Have you ever tried grisaille? It's painting in grey values only, and you can colourize it with glazes afterward.
-David

Bizkit
08-26-2008, 09:10 PM
Very cool, Ill be pulling up a chair as well in anticipation of the progress report!!!!

asnowfall
08-27-2008, 12:42 AM
This book has good tips on controlling value, talks about Covino palette, a palette with value markings.
http://www.amazon.com/Controlled-Painting-Frank-Covino/dp/0891340440
If you are short on time, you can skip the first 81 pages :-)

Ramesh

hamsterdance
08-27-2008, 02:18 AM
Thanks for the link. I just ordered a copy. I also ordered a copy of the Barques book from a museum. I'd like to get to the point that I can make an acrylic painting look 'dead wringer' like an Old Master oil painting.

I'm also going to keep fiddling around to see if the current set of Golden acrylic mediums might be able to do it.

chammi kaiser
08-27-2008, 03:51 AM
Looking really good so far. Also looking forward to the next step. Good advice from Ann.

TxAggieDarlin
08-27-2008, 10:31 AM
well, I love it as is so I bet it is going to be a beauty.

gurleygirl
08-27-2008, 04:40 PM
Very cool so far!
Tracey

hamsterdance
08-28-2008, 03:55 AM
I'm waiting for 10 full size tubes of Golden Opens and mediums (some Open others traditional) before continuing. I enjoyed the trial kit so much I broke down and bought a bunch though I probably shouldn't have. I wish they'd get here as I'm chomping at the bit to move to the next phase.

I'm hoping glazing with the Golden open gloss gel (and / or Golden Glazing medium...or maybe a mix of both) will serve the same purpose as Damar does in building the glow in Flemish style oil paintings.

I posted a little bit on Mark's blog (CEO of Golden) and explained what I am hoping to achieve with them...make them look 'dead wringer' for Old Master oils. He said to try experimenting with various combinations of mediums but if none of the current ones manage to achieve it Golden just might start R&D to see if they can create one that will do just that.

I keep imagining...combine the blendability of Golden Opens with a medium that makes finished acrylics look *exactly* like oils.

One can always dream...

JamieWG
08-28-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm hoping glazing with the Golden open gloss gel (and / or Golden Glazing medium...or maybe a mix of both) will serve the same purpose as Damar does in building the glow in Flemish style oil paintings..

Have you thought of trying the more fluid OPEN medium for this, perhaps combined with the OPEN thinner, like you might combine damar/turp for oil painting? It's just a little more fluid than the OPEN gel medium.

Jamie

NM Painter
08-28-2008, 02:04 PM
You draw beautifully and with obvious love for your subject. I can feel the gesture and energy of the shell's growth. I'm not into super-realism as you are, but I'm looking forward to seeing each stage of your process. Please don't lose the love in the attainment of realism!
Just noticed that you are trying OPEN... please let us know how that goes. I'm trying it too, and glazing is something I'm working with at the moment.

hamsterdance
08-28-2008, 03:25 PM
Have you thought of trying the more fluid OPEN medium for this, perhaps combined with the OPEN thinner, like you might combine damar/turp for oil painting? It's just a little more fluid than the OPEN gel medium.

Yep. They're part of my order. It just hasn't gotten here yet.

I'm not into super-realism as you are, but I'm looking forward to seeing each stage of your process. Please don't lose the love in the attainment of realism!

Funny you should mention that. I have the strangest split personality when it comes to my art. I love the look of super-realism as you call it. I always thought of it as more "classical" style - like the stuff you see in the Barques book (http://www.daheshmuseum.org/museumshop/index.php?categoryID=2&PHPSESSID=e116bc326326fb7811403028c1c0ccc1) or Classical Painting Atelier (http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Painting-Atelier-Contemporary-Traditional/dp/0823006581/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b) but perhaps super-realism is a better term. And yet I also really like paintings like Jacqueline Sullivan (http://blog.jacquelinesullivan.com/) does. I just bought a bunch of mediums and her DVD so I can start trying to paint like that too.

Just noticed that you are trying OPEN... please let us know how that goes. I'm trying it too, and glazing is something I'm working with at the moment.

Well for this underlayer I'm using a tube of Daniel Smith Burnt Umber. Mainly for one reason - I'm trying to get rid of it - along with the rest of my tubes of this brand as I don't really like them. But it seems like a waste to toss them out so I'll be using them for underpainting and maybe "Sullivan-esque" types of painting.

But so far...based on what I've been getting from just doodling around with the Opens...I love them.

NM Painter
09-02-2008, 03:35 PM
Yep. They're part of my order. It just hasn't gotten here yet.



Funny you should mention that. I have the strangest split personality when it comes to my art. I love the look of super-realism as you call it. I always thought of it as more "classical" style - like the stuff you see in the Barques book (http://www.daheshmuseum.org/museumshop/index.php?categoryID=2&PHPSESSID=e116bc326326fb7811403028c1c0ccc1) or Classical Painting Atelier (http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Painting-Atelier-Contemporary-Traditional/dp/0823006581/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b) but perhaps super-realism is a better term. And yet I also really like paintings like Jacqueline Sullivan (http://blog.jacquelinesullivan.com/) does. I just bought a bunch of mediums and her DVD so I can start trying to paint like that too.


Here's an artist you might really like.... Scott Prior is a 'super-realist' who manages to be much more than a substitute camera by his very personal choices in lighting, scale and the combination/composition of subject matter. http://scottpriorart.com/

objectivistartist
09-02-2008, 05:49 PM
Good to see ol' Frank's books still in use - first got to know his method back in the 70's when first doing acrylics and before getting influenced by Max Parrish's blue undercoating method... http://www.bpib.com/illustrat/parrishc.htm [another grissaille style technique]