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guillot
07-19-2002, 03:56 PM
TEETH

Well, I'm doing yet another No-No.

I'm doing this for my neice, who just turned 16! Note: this is not done from a photograph per say, I did use some for reference, but she visited me a month ago, when I started this.

You will say......this is photographic, I know. You are not supposed to do teeth, but bless her heart, she smiles, and you see teeth :D. I wanted to capture "her", as much as possible, in a young fun way.

I'm not sure if I'm finished with this or not. Would like to see what you guys think though.

Comments and suggestions welcome as always!!!!!

Tina

guillot
07-19-2002, 05:05 PM
I fixed her left eye, looked puffy here, not so much on the canvas. Her hair still needs quite a bit of work.

Should I tone down her eyes a bit? She has these really beautiful penetrating baby blues.

How's the background???


Tina

Luis Guerreiro
07-19-2002, 06:24 PM
Hi Tina,

The first thing is that your niece is very pretty and turned out to be a wonderful model.
If her eyes are that blue, do not change them and let the painting "tell" her beauty.
The work is not finished yet, as you say. Hair needs some more work done, etc. As for the background, I won't risk a comment, it all depends on what you want it to look, I think a relaxed contemporary abstract background would suit it best, but that's just my opinion.
All in all, you've got a good painting here.
Luis:)

Wayne Gaudon
07-19-2002, 07:11 PM
Tina .. the no no .. her back teeth to me should recede in height and perhaps you have to help it along as they seem very close to the same height and width as the front teeth. The painting of the teeth is very good. They look like real teeth and that is an accomplishment. I like her eyes and I think if you add a few more different colors in your flesh tones to compliment the eyes you will be fine.

Don't dare ask me how? I haven't a clue.

later,

harriet
07-19-2002, 08:04 PM
Hi Guillot,

I really love her eyes! They sparkle with joy and are beautiful..don't touch them!
The thing that I see about the teeth (and I'm no expert) is that the last tooth showing on her right side is too square and there should be just a glimpse of the next tooth back - as there is on the other side. IMHO, without that, it kind of looks like there's a hole there. As far as them being even and much the same size; many teens who have had braces really look that way. I wouldn't change their shape if that is an acurate dipiction of the way she looks.

I really like what you've done though. Maybe someday I'll get BRAVE and try portraits! lol

harriet

Roger
07-19-2002, 10:09 PM
Hello Guillot,
Just happened to stop by and looked at your portrait work.
The eyes are beautiful blue and expressive.
The teeth are ok except on her right side the darker tooth following the bright ones may need to be less dark. I would lighten it up a little so it doesn't look like a hole. Squinting your eyes once in a while might help you to see tones and not so much detail.
The other part that might need to be improved is the bottom part of the front of the nose. It should not have a highlight.

Great painting.:)
Roger
Go for it!

guillot
07-20-2002, 12:34 AM
Hey, thanks everyone for stopping by and offering your help and suggestions!! :)

Luis - Thanks for the response!! I do think that I need to relax that background just a bit. I tried a different approach with this one from Chris Saper's Book "Painting Beautiful Skin Tones with Color and Light" in which she starts off with a wash of Terre Verte, and then draw's the face with a bit of a thicker wash of Terre Verte, working out the shading, eyes, mouth, etc. along the way before putting down the skin tones (working out those problems before painting the skin tones). I liked the approach, but not the color!!!!! I have a halo affect going on around the head I need to eliminate (although, she is an angel :angel: ). Thank you so much for your input!!!

Wayne - Thanks for the compliment on the teeth. This is my first set, and hopefully the last when it comes to portraiture. You are right, they should recede toward the corner of the mouth. Thanks for pointing that out to me :D. Now, come on, I'm sure you can give me some hints :evil:. I'm afraid if I work too much more on those skin tones they will look overworked, and I don't want that to happen. But, I do need to do a little bit more.

Harriet - Thank you for your reply. I'm still considering toning down those baby blues just a tad. She's never had braces - Lucky kid! She has perfect teeth. I fixed the area you mentioned, thanks for pointing that out!! She did look a bit toothless in there didn't she?

Roger - Thanks for spotting that highlight on the nose. I fixed that as well. Thanks for the compliment too :D.

I've been working on her hair, getting rid of that "draw every hair" look. I have a tendency to do that when doing hair, and that's another no-no. I want to work on that background some more - Don't know where to begin with that just yet - Any Suggestions??? I feel at this point that the whole thing looks almost "cartooney". Maybe if I darken the left side, her right, some more with some different color it will help with that.

BLAH - I'm a bit frustrated with myself. Am I ever going to get this stuff right????????? :(

Thanks All - will post an update tomorrow. Until then, if you see anything that you can give me suggestions on.......PLEASE DO!!

Tina

artbabe21
07-21-2002, 02:55 PM
Hey Tina!
We all have 'em, teeth I mean. I think brave artists paint teeth on people who really look themselves the most with a smile. You did a great job for first time teeth, the exceptions have been noted and I will look forward to seeing the finish. She's a beautiful gal and those gorgeous eyes!

I agree with Luis on the splash of green, my eyes went there
first and kept bouncding around confused. Think it should be toned down if you are going to keep it.

If you can't add more colors to the face it still is very good with the values you have. Isn't it true how we want to paint every hair? Once you do it simply it will change the way you do it always. Great job though!
Cathleen~

guillot
07-21-2002, 03:48 PM
Thanks for the comments/suggestions. I think it's almost there. You guys tell me what you think, and if you see something else that needs to be adjusted/fixed. I worked some more skin tones, fixed the nose, fixed the teeth, and worked on the eyes (there was too much like "Hulk" eyes going on, so I toned them down a little bit). And, worked on the hair too.

Worked the background. Do you think I should go ahead and eliminate the rest of the green??? on her right, your left?? The change in made a huge difference in the overall appearance.

Please let me know what ya think, good or bad :)

Cathleen - thanks for taking a peek. Yep, it's hard to break some tendencies :(. Hope the teeth look better too! Thank You!!

Tina

Luis Guerreiro
07-21-2002, 04:08 PM
Tina,
I agree with Cathleen (Hi Cathleen!;).
The teeth issue has been resolved. Don't touch. The eyes were ok but toning them down a bit is OK.
I hope you don't mind me saying but I am completely stunned at how such a pretty woman she is (don't tell her please, it would be embarrassing! :o ) but BOY! She is!
Another thing I have been thinking of is (and I hope you won't take offense): Does that pink top need to be pink? I would change it to a blue (indigo, blue jeans blue, the sort of thing, you know) and then use that blue with other 2 different blues and white for a very loose broken background. I think it would enhance her hair and the whole face, the blue eyes, etc... Just my opinion of course.
Luis :)

artbabe21
07-21-2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Luis Guerreiro
(Hi, Cathleen!;).
Another thing I have been thinking of is (and I hope you won't take offense): Does that pink top need to be pink? I would change it to a blue (indigo, blue jeans blue, the sort of thing, you know) and then use that blue with other 2 different blues and white for a very loose broken background. I think it would enhance her hair and the whole face, the blue eyes, etc... Just my opinion of course.

(HI LUIS) 'the man all about color' has hit the jackpot here I think anyway, with the suggestion of a blue top to really enhance her hair & eyes!! I do like the background so much better and the eyes as well, the value was awfully light before. Good job, Tina!!
Cathleen~

Wayne Gaudon
07-21-2002, 05:06 PM
Tina :: here is something you may want to do .. the eyes are too white .. the whites of the eyes is an expression .. very little if any white contained in them. See attached photo .. take skin colors etc to find the correct colors .. check anyones eyes to see what I mean.

PS .. that is grey not white that I left in the eyes.

artbabe21
07-21-2002, 05:10 PM
Wayne, how do you know this stuff and NOT even do portraits?
I AM impressed. Yes, the first scan showed less white in the whites so I didn't pick it up. Good eye, there. Except my monitor looks like red eye, not gray.
Cathleen~:o

guillot
07-21-2002, 05:21 PM
OK, made some major changes. In all of 20 Minutes??? Here is a closeup of the background.

guillot
07-21-2002, 05:26 PM
Here are the changes to the chin (thanks Cathleen), and the complete background (thanks Luis and Cathleen). Let me know if you think anything needs to be tweaked, or changed again for that matter. This took me all of about 20 minutes. Made a major difference I think :D.

Hi Wayne - I didn't use white in the eyes. I used a gray-like fleshtone mix. I really don't want to change the eyes, I think that's it on those.

Anyway, here's the changes gang!! Thanks so much again for all of your help. Like I said, if you see anything.....ANYTHING....else, let me know. I want this completed by the end of today.

Thanks :angel: You're all angels!!!! - Tina

Luis Guerreiro
07-21-2002, 07:59 PM
Tina,

This is SPOT ON! Leave it and don't touch anything else. It's very nice and I personally think the changes made a hell lot of a difference.
Congrats. Well done.
Luis :clap: :clap: :clap:

Wayne Gaudon
07-21-2002, 08:02 PM
Thanks Pres .. it could be cause when I did it in PSP I didn't care what colors I used I just did it to show how the eyes would look.

Tina .. ok, you used grey but it shows white to the eye of the viewer so it could have been darker .. Oh well, it's all in the eye of the beholder :D

Nice finish .. love Blue.

Later

artbabe21
07-21-2002, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Luis Guerreiro
Tina,This is SPOT ON! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Love that Luis, 'SPOT ON!' Coming from a chap like you that's high praise!

Tina, it's lovely. I do really like the interesting detail on the background you showed as well. It works and you are getting to be an adept problem solver. It's one thing for us to point out something but another for you to be able to accomplish it!

Now relax and have a Guiness on Luis!

Cathleen~
:clap:

Midwest Painter
07-21-2002, 08:38 PM
I really like your picture. Normally I don't paint portraits, so allow me a bit of latitude here. If this were my painting I would want to add more highlights to the eyes and teeth in an effort to make her come alive.

Luis Guerreiro
07-21-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by artbabe21


Love that Luis, 'SPOT ON!' Coming from a chap like you that's high praise!

Tina, it's lovely. I do really like the interesting detail on the background you showed as well. It works and you are getting to be an adept problem solver. It's one thing for us to point out something but another for you to be able to accomplish it!

Now relax and have a Guiness on Luis!

Cathleen~
:clap:

I would gladly have a Guinness too, but it's 2AM in London... :(
Luis :)

guillot
07-21-2002, 09:30 PM
WOW! I'm so happy :)

Luis - Thanks so much for your wonderful help. You are such a compliment to my work, I hope you know that!!!! I absolutely love your work, and to have a compliment from you..simply makes my millenium!!! :D. I couldn't have done it without you!!

Cathleen - Thanks so much. You've always been by my side through my dilemmas, bless your heart!! Thank you so much for your compliments.

Wayne - I re-did the eyes just for you --- a subtle change. Will post below for ya! Thanks so much for your input as well.

Midwestpainter - made some changes.............hope that you can see the difference!!! I'm happy with it :D

Well............will have a nice glass of wine (can't have Guinness........got to work tomorrow!!) for all of your wonderful help!! I coudn't have done it without you all............YOUR WONDERDUL :D :D :D :clap:

Wayne - eyes just for you - tell me if you think better of them :D

THANKS ALL!!!!!

Tina

Midwest Painter
07-21-2002, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by guillot
WOW! I'm so happy :)

Luis - Thanks so much for your wonderful help. You are such a compliment to my work, I hope you know that!!!! I absolutely love your work, and to have a compliment from you..simply makes my millenium!!! :D. I couldn't have done it without you!!

Cathleen - Thanks so much. You've always been by my side through my dilemmas, bless your heart!! Thank you so much for your compliments.

Wayne - I re-did the eyes just for you --- a subtle change. Will post below for ya! Thanks so much for your input as well.

Midwestpainter - made some changes.............hope that you can see the difference!!! I'm happy with it :D

Well............will have a nice glass of wine (can't have Guinness........got to work tomorrow!!) for all of your wonderful help!! I coudn't have done it without you all............YOUR WONDERDUL :D :D :D :clap:

Wayne - eyes just for you - tell me if you think better of them :D

THANKS ALL!!!!!

Tina

Can we see the whole painting?

guillot
07-21-2002, 09:37 PM
MidwestPainter-

What do you mean??? It was posted much earlier on page 1 of this thread........

Thanks for your interest and compliments/suggestions. You need to wait for them to all upload. Sorry for that inconvience, but it's on page 1 at the bottom of the page.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!! :D Hope you like the changes better!!

Tina

Midwest Painter
07-21-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by guillot
MidwestPainter-

What do you mean??? It was posted much earlier on page 1 of this thread........

Thanks for your interest and compliments/suggestions. You need to wait for them to all upload. Sorry for that inconvience, but it's on page 1 at the bottom of the page.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!! :D Hope you like the changes better!!

Tina

Sorry, don't mind me. I can be a goof sometimes.

Wayne Gaudon
07-21-2002, 09:42 PM
Hee Haw .. Tina has eyes only for me .. La tee daw
:D :D :D

Very nice Tina .. do you like the change? They now have a more natural look .. that sort of water filled glaze to them.

You are moving girl.:clap:

It's one thing for us to suggest things but another for the artist to just jump in and do them. You will learn simply because you want to.

artbabe21
07-21-2002, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Wayne Gaudon
It's one thing for us to suggest things but another for the artist to just jump in and do them.

Wake up grampa, didn't I just say that above???????? In very similar words? haw~we're on the same wave length, must be those eyes Tina has for you that are making you goofy!
Cath~:D

guillot
07-21-2002, 09:48 PM
AAWWWWWW.....................SHUCKS WAYNE

Yes I feel better about the eyes! I just toned them down a little bit. Used some more of the skin tones, and just a tad of white for the "liquidness". Works for me. I'm glad it does for you too!!

MidwestPainter..........That's OK.........But tell me, how do you feel now, about the overall effect of the painting??? Big change huh??? I think so..............and I hope, soooooooo much, that my niece will be happy with it.

Thanks again!!!

Tina

Wayne Gaudon
07-21-2002, 09:50 PM
Jeepers Pres
.. almost the exact words .. OK .. you can have all the kudos for saying it .. it's yours .. and it doesn't take anyone's eyes to make me goofy .. I was born that way, or got hit one too many times for saying goofy things. :D

guillot
07-21-2002, 09:56 PM
oh..........But Wayne..........

The eyes say everything honey.......didn't you know?? The portal to the soul. Very hard to interpret in art!!!!

I'm glad that you're happy with them though! It did make a difference !!!!!!! - Thanks for your wonderful insight Master - !

VP

guillot
07-21-2002, 10:01 PM
WOW - Cathleen!!!! :D

Thanks to you guys........you're such an inspiration........you all push me to my limits..........and that's so WONDERFUL :clap: I want to overcome limits..........Thanks for pushing me :D :D :evil:

What a wonderful website!!!!!! And, the ties between artists that become of it. Friendships..........wonderful friendships!!! What a great place to be!! I love all of you guys :angel:

Love to you all --

Tine

Midwest Painter
07-21-2002, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by guillot
AAWWWWWW.....................SHUCKS WAYNE

Yes I feel better about the eyes! I just toned them down a little bit. Used some more of the skin tones, and just a tad of white for the "liquidness". Works for me. I'm glad it does for you too!!

MidwestPainter..........That's OK.........But tell me, how do you feel now, about the overall effect of the painting??? Big change huh??? I think so..............and I hope, soooooooo much, that my niece will be happy with it.

Thanks again!!!

Tina

I think everybody has provided great input for you. But it was you that took this and did the magic. I am always impressed by the artistic process. We all go through it. Even a cow painter from the Midwest like me. :p


Your painting is great! :clap:

guillot
07-21-2002, 10:46 PM
Hey - Thanks so much MidwestPainter.......

you know.......Wetcanvas is such a great place. I take everything that someone has to say about my work to heart, and it helps me learn tremendously!! It took me 20 minutes to make all the changes to her chin, her shirt, and the whole background. I was so enthralled in gettting in right, and keeping it loose, that quickness mattered in that affect. I think, in my heart, that it paid off. AND, of course, I hope that my niece will be proud of the painting, which I'm sure she would...........whether terrible or not. It's nice to know that you guys are out there for input and advice. AND, that your input is honest and true to the heart!

Thanks!!! BTW - I have cows in my kitchen....would love to be able to paint them!!

Tina

Luis Guerreiro
07-22-2002, 12:16 PM
Luis - Thanks so much for your wonderful help. You are such a compliment to my work, I hope you know that!!!! I absolutely love your work, and to have a compliment from you..simply makes my millenium!!! . I couldn't have done it without you!!
Tina,
You did it, never mind about the rest, you're so much welcome.

Wayne - I re-did the eyes just for you --- a subtle change
What?!... I'm jealous! :D (just kidding... :p )

Hee Haw .. Tina has eyes only for me .. La tee daw
What?!... Right! This is it! Wayne, you're officially invited to meet me for a duel western style, complete with hats, cowboy boots and colt pistols! :evil:. There can only be space for ONE cowboy on Tina's heart: ME! :evil: - LOL! :D LOL!

(getting used to my racous sense of humour, are you?... :D )

must be those eyes Tina has for you that are making you goofy!
Cathleen! Let's have a wee "chat" over a cup of tea, shall we?!... :evil: - LOL :D LOL.

Back to the painting... The eyes do look better actually. Good advice from Wayne, excellent execution from Tina. Well done.

Luis :D

PS: I trust you should know by now my sense of humour... LOL!

artbeau
07-25-2002, 05:14 PM
That totally works. I was finding myself unable to really focus before the background change. I applaude your ability to make bold changes like that. A lot of artists tend to get too attached and afraid when a painting is as far along as this. The blues you added really make it click.

artbabe21
07-25-2002, 05:25 PM
Every time I get a new email w/this "Doing the No-No" thread I just crack up!!!!!!!!!!! There MUST be an old song with that title, don't ya think?????????? Please let us know how your niece likes this beautiful painting Tina!
Cathleen~:D

paintfool
07-25-2002, 07:49 PM
Tina! This is fast becomming a stunning portrait! Your neice is so beautiful and she'll be thrilled with the results! I think changing the shirt color was right on and i also think you've done a GREAT job on the teeth. I do not consider teeth to be a 'no no' but admit that thay are very difficult to de realistically, therefore a lot of people choose a pose without them. There was no need for you to eliminate them since you obviously have a good grasp on them. I do agree with Wayne about toning down the whites of the eyes a slight bit, especially in the corners. And don't forget that you'll need a tiny bit of a lid shadow on the whites. I use a slightly thinned paynes grey for that. The lid shadow gives a really believable look to the eyes.

guillot
07-25-2002, 09:17 PM
Thanks Artbeau - yep, bit my lip the whole way through those changes.

Cathleen - :D. I'll get a pic of her with it (so you can see the likeness, of course), and post it here. I take it to her next weekend. I do hope that she likes it.

Paintfool - Thank you so much for your input. I was waiting for a reply on that lid shadow :o . I'm going to take your advice and work on that, and the corners of the eyes some more. Hopefully, I can get something posted on it by tomorrow evening. Hope you take another look for me, as I do want to get this as right as possible. On teeth being a "no-no", I've never felt personally that it was......but my portraiture teacher told us that you just don't do teeth, that they look nice of course, but that it tends to make the art work look too photographic. I tend to do what people tell me NOT to do....you would think I was still a rebellious teenager or something.... But, It makes me happy to know that you feel I did a good job on them. Thank you for the tip, and the reply!!

Tina

Roger
07-26-2002, 09:18 AM
You did it!
It feels so good to finish a painting and sign it. Now you have all those new techniques for portrait painting and your next one will be so much better.
Best of luck!

Roger
Go for it!:)

Mario
07-26-2002, 10:09 AM
I like the farhead...this is the right idea imo..the hair is making the portrait flat instead of allowing the head to turn.,..the outside edge of the hair should not be a hard line.

guillot
07-26-2002, 10:17 PM
Thank you Roger!! I'm glad you like the changes.

Thanks Mario, I'll work on that next time. :D

Paintfool: Did some changes to the eyes. Added the upper lid shadow and worked some more in the corners. Hope it works! Thanks again for your help!

Here are the changes to the eyes: I took this indoors (it's stormy this afternoon, couldn't take it out for a natural light shot).

guillot
07-26-2002, 10:20 PM
The colors are off a bit, because I had to take these shots indoors. I think you can get the idea though. Here's a shot of the whole painting. Thanks again! - Tina

coulter
07-26-2002, 10:45 PM
The painting, the girl, the teeth:D


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

kiwicockatoo
07-26-2002, 11:20 PM
Ooops, I didn't realize this was done already. It's gorgeous!!! Beautiful girl, too.

There's something really satisfying about this painting - energetic yet peaceful to look at. Maybe the colors? I love the blues! Skintones are great too! I like the background - it's sedate and funky at the same time. Lovely, lovely, lovely.

WAY TO GO!!!!

guillot
07-27-2002, 12:47 PM
Why thank you Coulter!! Yep, she's a pretty girl. I hope she likes this. Thanks for the reply.

Hi Kiwicockatoo! Thanks for stopping by and replying. I believe the blues (thanks Luis) are really what pulled this one together. And the eyes (thanks Wayne and Paintfool for the suggestions) look more vibrant and alive. Thanks so much for the comments!!!

Tina

JustjoGA
07-27-2002, 01:18 PM
I went back and read and looked at this whole thread... Another great education on portraits and facial features... Thanks to Luis, Wayne, Cathleen and all for helping this one be so beautiful.