I keep blowing the circuit breaker with my kiln

[emeraldeyedesigns]

:confused: Ughh I was up to 1 am last night fiddling with my new bead kiln...its an Aim 96J. I have to run it in the dark in my garage it seems. Whenever other lights or appliances are on it flips the breaker. I was hoping to run my concentrator and the kiln off the same outlet....but it won't.....

So I heated the kiln up to 1000 and then turned it off and then made my beads and then when i was done...I turned everything off and heated the kiln up to 1050 for boro beads, which had fallen to 500 degrees.....so I think I strained the beads.....and I worked Amber Purple...which came out looking black purple and blue....weird!!!

Suggestions? I am thinking I am going to need a seperate breaker for the kiln......ughhh but for a 120V I didn't think this would happen! Help!!!!:crying::(:confused:

[rosebead]

It is recommended that a kiln have its own dedicated outlet, especially in a regular household electrical setting. perhaps get an extension cord for the CONCENTRATOR, & plug that into another circuit.

[FireBeads]

It's not the volts but the amps that matter. Yes, you should have a dedicated circuit for your kiln. My dh is an electrician (I have lots of dedicated circuits for my kilns and tools :clap: ).

You should maintain the annealing temp until you're done making beads and then ramp down. It sounds like maybe you don't have a controller? You can batch anneal which requires a slower more controlled ramp up than just turning it on. There should be lots of info here about that.

[Mark Wilson]

in most homes several outlets, even lights are daisy changed on a single breaker. the kiln will take 100% of the current capacity of a standard 120v 15 amp circuit breaker. when your kiln blows the circuit breaker, take notice what else is not working any more; other outlets, lights, etc. then unplug everything that isn't working except your kiln. if your lights go out, replace the lights with compact fluorescent bulbs which take less power. you will have to plug the things you unplug into a different circuit.

[RCKeyes]

Mark,
It is best to run your kiln on a dedicated 20 amp 120v circuit. Does the plug have a prong that is sideways?

[emeraldeyedesigns]

Thanks! Yah I now see the kiln takes 14 amps and its a 15 amp breaker..... I will have to break out the extension cords till I can find someone to put in another breaker dedicated to the kiln!:p

[Mark Wilson]

Mark,
It is best to run your kiln on a dedicated 20 amp 120v circuit. Does the plug have a prong that is sideways?

you can plug it into a 20 amp breaker and that would be fine. it does not need to have a special plug. but if you have a 15 amp and a 20 amp breaker in the same area, i would plug the kiln into the 15 amp breaker and leave the 20 for everything else.

[Mark Wilson]

Thanks! Yah I now see the kiln takes 14 amps and its a 15 amp breaker..... I will have to break out the extension cords till I can find someone to put in another breaker dedicated to the kiln!:p
DO NOT USE AN EXTENSION CORD FOR YOUR KILN!!!!!! maybe use extension cords for the other, lower power demand items that you need to move, but not the kiln!!!!!!!!

[RCKeyes]

Kim,
I was just reading your blog and noticed this:
"I need to get more O2 to that torch... So I guess I need to bring in a tank"

Your OXYCON should run that torch just fine and you should be able to work boro without any problems. Unless your doing complex implosions, 45 minutes is way to long for a boro pendant.

[emeraldeyedesigns]

Well I don't know what I am doing wrong then..I run the o2 concentrator for about 20 minutes before firing my torch up....but it doesn't run very hot. The guage says its putting out 5/liters a minute but it takes forever to melt any thing in? any suggestions....If I turn the propane up then my cones are too high . Maybe I am just used to a bigger torch? I don't know...help....

But isn't it true that the o2 tank will help my torch run better and hotter?

Kim:confused::confused::confused:

[Mark Wilson]

Well I don't know what I am doing wrong then..I run the o2 concentrator for about 20 minutes before firing my torch up....but it doesn't run very hot. The guage says its putting out 5/liters a minute but it takes forever to melt any thing in? any suggestions....If I turn the propane up then my cones are too high . Maybe I am just used to a bigger torch? I don't know...help....

But isn't it true that the o2 tank will help my torch run better and hotter?

Kim:confused::confused::confused:


on oxygen concentrator is great as far as it goes. you will get a moderately large flame using the oxygen from it, about 7000 btu/hour. but a typical torch can put out 2x or 3x that much heat when hooked to tanked oxygen. the only down side with at tank is that you always run out at the wrong time.

now it is also possible that your oxygen conentrator is not working well and you do not get 5 l/m of 95% oxygen out of it, maybe 75% or even less. they do have a limited lifetime especially in humid climates.

[Dennis Brady]

The AIM 96J uses 14 amps at maximum draw when it's full on. It can be run on a 15 amp circuit and still allow you to have a couple of lights on the same circuit - but there isn't enough to carry other appliances or your concentrator. We have several similar size kilns running on 15 amp circuits and have NEVER blown a breaker - even with several lights on the same circuit as the kiln.

You can use an extension cord for that kiln as long as you make sure it's at least 14 guage wire. It's not uncommon to run 14 guage wire for 100' or more from a service panel through the walls of your house, so there's no reason you can't run a pretty lengthy extension cord from a wall outlet - as long as the wire is heavy enough to carry the load. Building codes are different in various US states, but such practice is DEFINITELY permitted where I live.

[Mark Wilson]

DO NOT USE AN EXTENSION CORD WITH YOUR KILN. check with your kiln manufacturer, and i guarentee that they will say not to use an extension cord. if you can't figure out how to power your studio with the outlets you have, either move the studio, or you could make up some special power cables using 10 to 12 guage soild copper 3 concudctor cable, the same kind that is in your walls, to run an outlet from another room. but the kind of extension cords you find on the racks cannot handle the current you are drawing. you can find some 6 foot extension cords with 12 gauge wires off the shelf, but i don't think 6 feet is going to help much.

[emeraldeyedesigns]

Thanks for all of the advise. I am not going to run my kiln on an extension cord. But the circuit for the kiln also has a freezer on it, the garage door opener, and hte lights for the main hall of the house so there lies the problem..... I am going to have a friend put in another circuit for the kiln....I have a third to start up too? Ughhh....yehhhhh Melt Melt Melt....
I am also going to get the 02 canister and use the concentrator when I am working with soft glass and the other ofr boro work and for when I have my larger torch!

Thanks Thanks Thanks:wave::D:clap::cat:

[Rhonda Brewer]

Regarding using an extension cord:
Would it be possible (and/or a good idea) to build your own extension cord with the proper guage wire and proper plugs?
The reason I ask, is I haven't fired in years due to not having a place to plug the kiln in out in my garage, but I have a metal storage shed plenty big enough in the yard, and window access to either the plug for my stove or the plug for my dryer. The kiln uses 240. What is your informed opinion?

[Deedub]

There's nothing wrong with an extension cord persay, but it has to be sized to your circuit. A 14 ga cord can be used for a 15a circuit, 12ga for a 20a circuit, and 10ga for a 30a circuit. You should have roughly a 20% extra capacity in your circuit to prevent breaker tripping. So, for example 8amps draw on a ten amp circuit. You need to add up all the appliances on one circuit and make sure they don't exceed that 80%, or be sure and keep them off while the kiln is running. Also always make sure your wire sizing is suited to your breaker before you replace a breaker with a larger one. Very important safety info.

[Dennis Brady]

:confused: Ughh I was up to 1 am last night fiddling with my new bead kiln...its an Aim 96J. I have to run it in the dark in my garage it seems. Whenever other lights or appliances are on it flips the breaker. I was hoping to run my concentrator and the kiln off the same outlet....but it won't.....

So I heated the kiln up to 1000 and then turned it off and then made my beads and then when i was done...I turned everything off and heated the kiln up to 1050 for boro beads, which had fallen to 500 degrees.....so I think I strained the beads.....and I worked Amber Purple...which came out looking black purple and blue....weird!!!

Suggestions? I am thinking I am going to need a seperate breaker for the kiln......ughhh but for a 120V I didn't think this would happen! Help!!!!:crying::(:confused:

Your kiln draws 14 amps. If you plug it into a 15 amp 120 volt outlet, there's enough extra capacity for a couple of lights but that's about all. There's no way way can run a concentrator and a kiln on the same plug. Either run one at a time or run them off separate circuits. Why can't you run an extension cord for your concentrator? Otherwise, you'll have to wire in an extra circuit on a separate breaker.

[Mike Jordan]

I have a Skutt 1014, which is rated at 240 volts at 34 amps. Where I wanted to place it was about 6 feet away from the circuit. So I called Skutt and talked to their engineer about using a extension cord with it. He said it would be ok as long as the cord was rated the same or better as what was used by the power cord on the Skutt itself and was less than 6 to 10 feet. If it went longer (I don't remember at what length), it needed to have one size larger gage wire and if it went longer still, it needed to be another gage larger wire.

I know from my RV days that you can get extension cords that can be used on the 50 amp service in RV parks that the big RV rigs require. They are expensive though. I think it is safer to just tell people you can't use an extension cord because most will miss the detail about using the right cord for the job and just grab the 15 amp green cord they use on the Christmas tree lights each year. You will end up blowing a circuit breaker if you are lucky, but more than likely you will burn your house down.

If you have a plug in the kitchen for a dishwasher, garbage disposal or microwave (many houses built in the last 30 years do) these are (usually) 20 amp circuits to be dedicated to these appliances. So if you can plug into one of those and don't run your dishwasher, garbage disposal or microwave, at the same time, you should not have any problem with the circuit breaker.

If your house is older, it could also be that your circuit breakers have gotten old and pop a lot easier than newer ones would. Or some of the screws that hold the wires down might have worked lose (the heating and cooling from use will work the screws loose) increasing the amount of current needed to push the voltage through. If in doubt, it's always a good idea to spend the money and have a licensed electrical contracter take a look. Just an inspection won't cost that much and the peace of mind can be worth it. And it's sure to be a lot safer than listening to a bunch of us on a forum give our opinions on it. Even someone that is an electriction really won't know until they see your panel and wiring.

Mike

[Alan Cross]

If you panel has room I would just run another breaker and be done with it...

[Deedub]

'Can' and 'Should' are different concepts. Mark is rightly erring on the side of caution.

[Mike Jordan]

.

I've worked around a lot of chemicals, high voltage and high RF current over the years. When I got into working with glass, I was surprised at just how much dangerous stuff there is involved in fusing, casting and flame work (I wonder how many people working in glass know this too?). I think a lot of the material used in glass work is a lot more dangerous than correctly using an extension cord on a kiln.
Mike

[Mark Wilson]

http://www.evenheat-kiln.com/technical/kilnsafety/kilnsafety.htm

http://www.hotkilns.com/cautions.pdf

http://www.ortonceramic.com/resources/pdf/Kiln_Safety_Manual.pdf

http://www.cresskilns.com/pdf/furnace_instructions.pdf

http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/pubs/videoresource/stpelectrickiln.pdf

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ceis3.pdf

[Mike Jordan]

Skutt also has that in their documents. I'm sure every other kiln maker does too. Even though I knew I could safely use an extension cord, I called Skutt and talked to a technical engineer (at least that's how he was introduced to me, I don't know what his qualifacations where) and asked. He said that yes an extension cord could be used and then he told me how it had to be made to not void my warranty or exceed the electrical safety requirements of my kiln. My main concern was warranty, not safety, because I already knew I could do so safely. I wouldn't have used any extension cord bought in Home Depot or Lowe's or other hardware store though. If I bought one, it would have been a 30 amp or higher rated one from the local RV store. But I probably just would have bought the 8 guage wire and end plugs and made my own.

I can understand why they put that in their manuals. Either someone has already or they figure it's only a matter of time before someone takes a 15 amp extension cord and figures out how to use it with their 30 amp kiln. It's based on the McDonalds coffee suit where people will dump hot coffee on themselves and then sue McDonalds because their coffee is too hot. Stupid people require stupid laws. It's the American way.

For those people that know nothing about electricity or those that can barely change a light bulb without calling an electriction (no offense to those that are light bulb challenged), the recommendation is a good one. They should never use an extension cord. But I suspect few of those people would even dream of plugging in a device that can reach temps of 1800 degrees or higher either.

There are also safety rules about leaving your kiln un-attended. That's kind of hard to do when you are fusing a big piece of glass and it's going to be cooking and annealing for days, if not weeks. Shoot, most of us fire up the kiln and go to work, to bed, or go do other things while the kiln is doing it's thing. I guess it just comes down to those that know when a rule is valid and when we know that it's not meant for everyone. Hopefully the person that believes the rule isn't meant for them really does fall in the catagory of that being true.

Mike

[Deedub]

The situation is quite simple: use the wrong extension cord, and you can burn your house down. Use a correctly sized cord, and everything is fine. All this other fancy rhetoric and ego-pumping is irrelevant to the question. The problem is, many people are novices, and the problem of sizing conductors is beyond them. So to avoid loss of life/property, the best course of action is to advise them to avoid extension cords altogether.

[raragon]

Skutt also has that in their documents. I'm sure every other kiln maker does too. Even though I knew I could safely use an extension cord, I called Skutt and talked to a technical engineer (at least that's how he was introduced to me, I don't know what his qualifacations where) and asked. He said that yes an extension cord could be used and then he told me how it had to be made to not void my warranty or exceed the electrical safety requirements of my kiln. My main concern was warranty, not safety, because I already knew I could do so safely. I wouldn't have used any extension cord bought in Home Depot or Lowe's or other hardware store though. If I bought one, it would have been a 30 amp or higher rated one from the local RV store. But I probably just would have bought the 8 guage wire and end plugs and made my own.

I can understand why they put that in their manuals. Either someone has already or they figure it's only a matter of time before someone takes a 15 amp extension cord and figures out how to use it with their 30 amp kiln. It's based on the McDonalds coffee suit where people will dump hot coffee on themselves and then sue McDonalds because their coffee is too hot. Stupid people require stupid laws. It's the American way.

For those people that know nothing about electricity or those that can barely change a light bulb without calling an electriction (no offense to those that are light bulb challenged), the recommendation is a good one. They should never use an extension cord. But I suspect few of those people would even dream of plugging in a device that can reach temps of 1800 degrees or higher either.

There are also safety rules about leaving your kiln un-attended. That's kind of hard to do when you are fusing a big piece of glass and it's going to be cooking and annealing for days, if not weeks. Shoot, most of us fire up the kiln and go to work, to bed, or go do other things while the kiln is doing it's thing. I guess it just comes down to those that know when a rule is valid and when we know that it's not meant for everyone. Hopefully the person that believes the rule isn't meant for them really does fall in the catagory of that being true.

Mike

Good points. My husband is a general contractor here in NM and we work with lots of electricians and HVAC guys. All people well qualified and very knowledgeable in their field.

I have to use an extension cord for my small kiln...an Aim 94BD. I had no problem finding a 12g 3 conductor extension cord at Lowe's.

I definitely appreciate information from those with more experience than me but all of us in this art form need to do our own research as well. What is legal or allowed in one state or one country may not be the same in yours.

Besides it's always good to know your equipment. :)

[Mark Wilson]

In fact it gives instructions that for ever 50 feet of additional wire that a wire 2 numerically numbers lower should be used.
Mike

please note that it was a wire 2 numerical numbers lower all the way from the breaker to the kiln, not from the plug to the kiln.

[Mark Wilson]

i have a strong engineering background, and i understand the reason for the manufacturers safety specifications, it all has to do with the resistance of the wire, and the ohmic heating in the wire due to the large currents. the longer the wire, the smaller diameter of the wire, the higher the resistance, the larger the voltage drop, and the more heating in the wire.

if electric inspectors are given partial information, you can get one answer from them. if you give them more information, your answer might be different.


bottom line for everyone reading this thread, that is not involved in the "discussion", read the safety manual for safe installation and operation of your kiln, and follow all safety rules in your community. if your kiln causes a fire and your instalation is not correct, you may not have any fire insurance payment to help you rebuild.

[rosebead]

I have edited this thread to keep it on subject. (The subject is kilns and blowing circuits - in case I need to remind anyone.)
All technical information given is very much appreciated by all here at WC.
Please remember that WC is a community that is considerate and respectful to all members, even those who do not agree with us.

[emeraldeyedesigns]

I put in the dedicated outlet which now has filled my breaker box and things are running fine. btw I was running a freezer off the same breaker before...lol...no wonder it was blowing.

And yes I moved to the o2 tank......I love it but yes I have run out of o2 already...time to get it filled but at least I didn't run out during a project.

Kim