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View Full Version : Viridian vs. Windor Green


cjorgensen
04-14-2008, 01:34 PM
What is the difference between Viridian and Windsor Green?

I want to work my way through Kevin MacPherson's book: Fill your Oil Paintings with Light and Color. His steps of proceedure look do-able for my skill level. He only uses Alizerian Crimsion, Ultra Blue, Cad Yellow Pale, and Windsor Green. I have tons of Viridian, but I don't know if I should buy Windsor Green, or if it is just the brand name for Viridian. So what do you think? (I know all colors are a little bit different from brand to brand, but I don't know if these two are supposed to be the same or different.)

(When I first bought Viridian, someone told me that Thaylo Green would work just as well, so I got that, and I had no idea how overwhelmingly powerful Thaylo Green was. Thalo and Viridian are not the same.)

Einion
04-14-2008, 03:09 PM
(When I first bought Viridian, someone told me that Thaylo Green would work just as well, so I got that, and I had no idea how overwhelmingly powerful Thaylo Green was. Thalo and Viridian are not the same.)
Yes indeed! Phthalo Green Blue Shade and Viridian are roughly the same hue, but Viridian is duller and not nearly as strong. This actually makes the phthalo green much more versatile in the long run, but it can be so hard to deal with that some people won't use it (and its blue sibling).

Anyway, Winsor Green is Phthalo Green BS, just with a different name on the tube.

I want to work my way through Kevin MacPherson's book: Fill your Oil Paintings with Light and Color. His steps of proceedure look do-able for my skill level. He only uses Alizerian Crimsion, Ultra Blue, Cad Yellow Pale, and Windsor Green. I have tons of Viridian, but I don't know if I should buy Windsor Green, or if it is just the brand name for Viridian.
You can certainly try using Viridian in place of Winsor Green; they're close enough in colour that Viridian can stand in its stead.

Just bear in mind it's much weaker, so if there are any mixtures that give proportions you'll have to increase the amount of green by quite a bit. Also it's not as brilliant, so some mixtures will be duller.

Einion

cjorgensen
04-14-2008, 08:31 PM
So, instead of guessing that Windsor green is viridian, I can use Thaylo green. I have tons of that too. Thanks. His stuff is pretty bright, so I want to try things his way and see how I do. Thanks again.

Howard Metzenberg
04-23-2008, 10:43 AM
Winsor Green, the first swatch, is Winsor & Newton's proprietary name for its Phthalo Green.

For greater detail, see

Winsor & Newton Winsor Green (http://www.dickblick.com/items/00461-7443/)

Viridan Green, the second swatch, is chromium(III)-oxide dehydrate. This sample was shot from Winsor & Newton Artist Oil Viridian Green.

For greater detail, see

Winsor & Newton Viridian Green (http://www.dickblick.com/items/00461-7103/)

Howard Metzenberg
Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

These swatches are Copyright 2008, Blick Art Materials, and are reproduced for by Blick Art Materials for Wet Canvas with permission for use in discussion of color theory.

LGHumphrey
04-23-2008, 03:26 PM
Thanks for those swatches Harold, I can see what Einion means when he says "Viridian is duller and not nearly as strong".

Howard Metzenberg
04-23-2008, 10:01 PM
Thanks for those swatches Harold, I can see what Einion means when he says "Viridian is duller and not nearly as strong".

What I like to tell people is, that even with the best possible digital photography it is almost impossible to capture this kind of nuance and detail. But when you actually see the materials in person, you see that effect really easily.

Funny how often I am called Harold. I know a Harold, and he says people are always calling him Howard.

Howard Metzenberg
Blick Art Materials

Daniel_OB
04-24-2008, 07:15 AM
Howard
"... digital photography ..."

There is no such think as digital photography. It is the same as painting is digital painting (do you see any difference). What you talk about is digital imaging which is very different think from photography.
The name digital "photography" came from computer devices manufacturers who used huge careless market of photography to lounch ther devices without developing new market.
So never say digital "photography". You as atrist own it to all that photographers in past that documented our history without manipulating facts.
Saying "digital photography" means all that photographs from past are possible manipulated and not to beleive to. Film as prove is not possible to manipulate. More by definition of photography, as Sir Hershel made, whole medium of digital world just cannot fit into that category. Just the same as digital imaging cannot fit into category oil painting.

----------------
Jorgensen
What is the difference between Viridian and Windsor Green?
Practically nothing. Viridian is of a hair less saturation and need to add a bit more than Pthtalo Gr. to get the same effect when mixing.
In general, painters like Viridian better.

gunzorro
04-24-2008, 10:15 AM
Daniel -- ???? Are you just trying to be provocative?

I can't follow what you say about digital photography, unless I actually do understand, then I must say you are off-base on your thinking.

With regard to artists preferring Viridian over Phthalo Green -- where are you getting your information? I've never heard such a thing.

Do you use a translation device to post in English?

Einion
04-24-2008, 10:15 AM
Howard
"... digital photography ..."

There is no such think as digital photography. It is the same as painting is digital painting (do you see any difference). What you talk about is digital imaging which is very different think from photography.
The name digital "photography" came from computer devices manufacturers who used huge careless market of photography to lounch ther devices without developing new market.
So never say digital "photography". You as atrist own it to all that photographers in past that documented our history without manipulating facts.
Saying "digital photography" means all that photographs from past are possible manipulated and not to beleive to. Film as prove is not possible to manipulate. More by definition of photography, as Sir Hershel made, whole medium of digital world just cannot fit into that category. Just the same as digital imaging cannot fit into category oil painting.
Er, what?

Daniel, I can't understand what the heck you were getting at here. Apart from the language problem, judging from this and other comments you seem to have some personal issue with digital images or imaging? If you want to debate semantics on what digital photography is or is not, as it looks like you do, then I suggest you start a thread in Debates.

Jorgensen
What is the difference between Viridian and Windsor Green?
Practically nothing. Viridian is of a hair less saturation and need to add a bit more than Pthtalo Gr. to get the same effect when mixing.
They are not nearly that similar as a rule Daniel.

In general, painters like Viridian better.
That's your judgement Daniel, not a statement of fact. I know plenty of artists that use PG7. And you do realise that PG18 is basically not made in acrylics, right? So that counts out essentially every acrylic painter in the world.

In oil painting artists with a more traditional palette are likely to prefer Viridian, those with palettes featuring a larger number of modern pigments will probably tend to prefer Phthalo Green BS. In watercolour the big difference in staining between the two pigments, and the fact that one is granulating and the other is not, may be the primary deciding factors.

Einion

bigflea
04-27-2008, 09:47 PM
The choice between a pthalo or viridian isn't much of a choice. Viridian is much easier to handle (ie. won't become the overwhelming troublemaker that pthalo tends toward).

Another alternative is permanent green. I have a big tube of viridian and a small tube of permanent green ( both Winsor Newton artist grade). The viridian is useful where there is a hint of a cool greenish note in a mixture of hues, but the permanent green is more useful where I am trying for some richer coloring, with a greater greenish tendency that isn't easily dominated by other hues mixed into it. It produces rich greens compared to the viridian that produces dull, cool, neutral tending greens. But it doesn't overtake a mixture the way pthalo green will, ie., it is easily manipulated in a mixture. To me it seems a very useful green pigment for landscape painting. Next time I will buy a big tube of the permanent green, and a small tube of viridian.

Daniel_OB
05-08-2008, 02:17 PM
Daniel, I can't understand what the heck you were getting at here.

Einion, you are probably not aware of the harms (not to me personally) such meduims properties ignorance makes. Quick defence rather than learning is showing up from some posters, so it is better to say I am wrong.

And I do not have just any "personal" issue" with dig. imaging, and would rather address such think to one that do not knows more about that medium than to use its finger.

And all of this has sense in painting forum, but no way to debate about it. So I am again wrong.

All I can say is: what a medium properties ignorance, "nothing new under the Sun".

And for similarity of Viridian and Phthalo green:
it differs form manufact. to manufactur. In average (not for particular manufacturer), as seen on the color chart (wheel) on handprints.com, they nearly overlap with hue and saturation.

dsrandall
05-20-2008, 05:40 PM
I use both. They mix differently and one will not make the same colors mixed with other colors. they really act differently. An easy way to see the differences is to just mix them with white.

The first time I used Windsor Green I thought WOW this is strong the way Alizarine is strong. Use it with a light touch. Clean your brushes thoroughly. I love the bright strong color because you can always dull a color down.

You can get very similar color mixes with the Phalo blue and a varriety of yellows.