PDA

View Full Version : Palette, starting again from scratch...


Einion
04-05-2008, 02:44 PM
I think most of us have a colour or two (or ten!) that we don't really use any longer and paint happily without. So as an exercise, if you had to build your palette again - say, because you moved and your paints got lost in transit - how large or small would it be compared to what you currently own?

Myself, I now have a large collection of acrylics (with multiple versions of the same colour in some cases, from comparative tests of different brands) but if I were to start from scratch I would only need about 12-15 paints.

If anyone would like to list the entire palette by name I'm sure others would find it very useful.

Einion

susme48
04-05-2008, 03:23 PM
Oh, my but this is timely. Am hoping to get some new paints...and am not totally sure what colors to get. I have a few I know I "have" to have (paynes gray, burnt umber, one of the crimsons, naples yellow, some sort of purple... ), but on some others, I am unsure of which shades I should have. Will be waiting to hear answers!

Linee
04-05-2008, 03:58 PM
This is what I use...and I use all the colors at some point.

Titanium white
Zinc white (for glazes)
Cadmium Red med. (I'm thinking of switching to a light, though)
Alizarin Crimson
Magenta
Yellow Oxide
Hansa Yellow
Cadmium Yellow med.
Ultramarine Blue
Pthalo Blue
Burnt Umber
Burnt Sienna

I also have Cobalt Blue, Phthalo Green, and Mars Black. None of which I use very often. I used to use Cobalt quite a bit, but it's expensive and so I'm "weeding" that out.

Lady Carol
04-05-2008, 04:11 PM
If I were to start over again, I would purchase (initially) all that Linda listed with the exception of pthalo blue. I would replace that with cerulean blue. But knowing me, being a lover of colour it would over time expand again to the 30 or so colours that I have. :o It is a good thing that I do not have to start over :lol:

howyadoin
04-05-2008, 04:24 PM
I don't think I'd weed anything out, to be honest (though with the Kroma stuff, I'm tempted). Sooner or later it'll get used somewhere.

My list, then:

Tri-Art:
Titanium White
Mars Black
Arylide Yellow Deep
Phthalo Green
Permanent Green Light
Cobalt Teal
Cerulean Blue (Hue)
Portrait Tone
Iridescent Pearl
Iridescent Copper
Transparent Brown
Phosphorescent
Naphthol Red Medium
Permanent Maroon
Neutral Grey
Interference Orange
Cadmium Red Medium
Cobalt Blue (Hue)
Sepia
Chrome Oxide Green
Cobalt Green
Raw Sienna

Golden:
Iridescent Bright Gold (Fine)
Iridescent Gold Deep (Fine)
Iridescent Bronze (Fine)
Iridescent Stainless Steel (Coarse)
Interference Violet (Fine)
Interference Green (Fine)
Interference Blue (Coarse)
Hansa Yellow Medium (Fluid)
Permanent Green Light (Fluid)
Titanium White(Fluid)
Carbon Black (Fluid)

Jo Sonja's:
Unbleached Titanium

Kroma:
Cerulean Blue
Transparent Red Oxide
Cadmium Medium Yellow
Cadmium Orange
Titanium White

Stevenson:
Payne's Grey
Alizarin Crimson

Reeve's:
Azo Light Yellow

DeSerres:
French Ultramarine

AMuse
04-05-2008, 05:03 PM
This is interesting - since I just started acrylic painting two and a half months ago, I have no idea what my palette will end up looking like. Right now I have more transparent colours than opaque - I suspect that is me trying to ease the transition from watercolour.

I know that I'm addicted to Iridescent Bronze. But so far I'm still feeling my way. I'll be interested in knowing what other people have as their staples.

edtree
04-05-2008, 05:28 PM
What an interesting and informative thread! It's great to see what paint colors everyone else uses. Thank you Einion!

I've got about 3 times this many tubes, but here are the ones I use the most::


Titanium white
Zinc white
Yellow light hansa (transparent)
Yellow ochre
Cad yellow
Cad orange
Cad red
Alizarine Crimson (transparent)
Dioxazine purple
Burnt sienna
Burnt umber
Hooker green
Olive green (transparent)
Deep green (transparent)
Brilliant blue
Phithalo blue
Payne's gray
Mars black


I do find I'm mixing my greens more than using the out-of-the-tube colors though lately so those may eventually go, so, I could probably trim this to 15.

Elizabeth

phobden
04-05-2008, 05:31 PM
Cadmium yellow
Yellow orange Azo
Ultramarine blue
Cerulean blue
Pthalo green
Cadmium red
Quinacridone red
Raw umber
burnt sienna
Titanium white
Zinc white
Paynes gray


(for a start):D

Thomas Greaves
04-05-2008, 05:36 PM
Hmm, seems I'm not alone in owning too many colours. That stems from my experimentation when I first started using acrylics. I'm actually wondering how I'm going to use up all the blues, greens and reds that I possess, as I've become so accustomed to using the limited palette that I've listed here, which I think most of you would find too frugal.
If I had to start afresh: Titanium white, Yellow Arylamide, Burnt Sienna, Ultramarine Blue, Violet Dk, Rose (Hue), and Viridian Green.
At a push I might add Yellow Ochre and Burnt Umber to that list, though only for the sake of laziness.
Incidentally, and slightly off-topic, my watercolour palette consists of only four colours. Cobalt Blue, Cadmium Yellow, Alizarin Crimson, and Viridian Green.

idylbrush
04-05-2008, 05:45 PM
It might be good for me to start with a augmented split primary palette. In addition to the SP I would have carbon black, Titanium white, Zinc white, yellow ochre, burnt sienna, burnt umber any and all of the pearlescent, irridescent, duochrome, panspectra(if I could find it) and of course all of the gels, mediums, texture junk and glass beads.

dejaa
04-05-2008, 05:56 PM
I was looking for this same informaion when I got back into painting. After I purchased most of the colors that I was use to I found information on a split palette that I found most helpful. When I painted before I did not have this information and could never get my mixes to look right now I know why. Mixing a cool and a warm primary create mud. Cool with cool or warm with warm much more vibrant a color.

Cadmium yellow med (warm)
Azo Yellow or Hansa (cool)

Ultramarine blue (cool)
Pthalo Blue (warm)

Alizerin Crimson Perm or Quinacridone red (cool)
Cadmium red med (warm)


Titanium white (opaque)
Zinc white (for glazing) just added last week because of information I sound on WC

Earth tones cause I like them for landscapes
Raw umber
Burnt umber
Raw sienna
Burnt sienna
Vandyke Brown

Paynes gray

I also really like the Indian reds and oranges for special projects
and Cobalt Blue.

Te_Wheke
04-05-2008, 06:23 PM
I would have a similar palette to the others mentioned with the addition of Vermillion. I Love the warm glow it gives skin in low reflected light, Yummy.:heart:

I guess one could get away with rgb or cmyk, but it's quite allot of work imo.

susme48
04-05-2008, 06:26 PM
While I was busy thinking and typing (in notepad, to get my thoughts together)...alot more posts and questions came up :confused: ...maybe someone won't mind answering them? I was going to ask about transparent and opaque colors, because of what Kathy said (and still am)...:)

But now after reading the next few posts...I have to ask about augmented split primary pallette?? IF I recall correctly, the primaries are red, blue, yellow? following that the split would be that each shade has a warm (cad. red light, cad. yellow, lt. and phthalo blue) and cool side(magenta, hansa yellow, ultramarine blue)?? Or at least close to these shades? The zinc white is translucent? versus the titanium which is not? I can see where with mixing you should (maybe not me...:lol: ) be able to come up with most colors. Tho' as I found the other day, without much yellow, brown is tough to attain; so for me burnt sienna and burnt umber help me out alot (spoiled here). :)

I enjoy all the extra colors, but find that I am tending to mix alot of my own, since some of the "pretty colors" I buy are disappointing. Which leads me back to the question of opaque and transluscent...I bought flesh tone...to use as a base...and discovered the one I bought won't cover sketch marks...no matter how thick I put it on...no matter how many coats; I would say that makes it very transluscent? :confused:

I imagine it has been discussed before, but is there a "place"/thread or website, I can go to find out which are transparent colors, and which are opaque? Do you all keep those separated, or do you actually remember which are which? How long does it take to remember?...lol I have read a number of books on it...and know that it is important, but I never can remember which is which; so I am thinking of separating the ones I have so that I will learn...maybe.

Dang this being new (when I'm so old) is frustrating :) , I feel so ignorant or uninfomed or whatever some times. I just find it hard to keep it all inside my head, and I hate doing trial and error; it is time consuming and wasteful. I also hate to keep pestering all of you...but have no one else to ask. :)

Thanks for putting up with my questions!

susme48
04-05-2008, 06:30 PM
Well...if I would have waited for Dejaa...lol

AMuse
04-05-2008, 06:33 PM
OK - this is what I know regarding transparency -

The "older" mineral derived pigments (cadmiums, yellow ochre, burnt sienna...etc. ) tend to be more opaque. the "newer" organic pigments (the quindicridones, pthalos) are considered to be transparent.

to test your pigments take a Sharpie Black Marker (make sure you use a thick permanent marker) and draw some lines on a piece of paper. then take your pigments and paint over the lines. if you can see the lines then its transparent.

Golden Paints actually show the colour sample over black lines on their tubes.

Linee
04-05-2008, 06:39 PM
Mixing a cool and a warm primary create mud. Cool with cool or warm with warm much more vibrant a color.



I have trouble following this rule. I usually start with a pallet of warm colors, plus pthalo blue (green shade, cool) and an earth tone or two. After that the right side of my brain takes over and I just paint, adding colors to my pallet as needed. I find myself mixing warms with cools from time to time, but when I do it seems to be what works. Go figure! :cool:

susme48
04-05-2008, 06:44 PM
Thanks again, Kathy...I do appreciate it!!

AMuse
04-05-2008, 06:44 PM
I don't follow a lot of mixing rules either Linda. I know the rules, but I don't think about them overly much. I just paint what I think looks right. LOL

Although generally I only start with a couple of colours on my palette that work together anyway... so I , at least, start from a good point! lol

AMuse
04-05-2008, 06:46 PM
No problem Susan... I'm learning right along with you! I have this book "Acrylic Revolution" that I open a lot to figure stuff out and get inspired by new things! (that's where I got my transparent info for you!)

susme48
04-05-2008, 07:07 PM
It's ok, Kathy...I got my refresh on what I thought a split pallette was from the North Light Book of Acrylic Painting Techniques...lol...have a ton of other books, but get lost in them, if I pick them up, and don't paint....just read...lol.

AMuse
04-05-2008, 08:17 PM
I don't know about you Susan - but I have an unnatural fixation on how other people paint... not that I want to paint just like them... but I'm always fascinated with the process, the materials, (do they drink? ;) LOL )

gaykir
04-05-2008, 08:28 PM
This is very interesting. If I had to limit my palette, my choices would be:

Paynes Gray
Quinacridone Magenta
Phthalo Blue (green shade)
Phthalo Blue (red shade)
Ultramarine Blue
Hansa Yellow Medium
Yellow Ochre
Burnt Sienna
Titanium White
Hookers green
Iridescent pearl
Iridescent Copper light
(and yes Kathy:thumbsup: ...and a nice Zinfandel)

I might have to add parchment & dioxide purple

dejaa
04-05-2008, 09:15 PM
Kathy your suggestion is right on the mony.

Susan take each one of your colors and make a color journal or chart using a permanent marker line to judge transparency. You will find three degrees, Transparent, opaque, and semi transparent. Also if you will take some medium and add to each color (or water) and make three line with each color. Full strength , 3/4 strength, and 1/2 strength you will learn a lot about each color you own. and what will give you a good glaze.

Another good thing to do is take card stock and take each color place little square on it. At the top place one pure color, then in each of the other squares mix that color and one of your other colors until ex(cad yellow as top color, then next square mix cad yellow and cad red, next cad yellow and pthalo blue and on and on. Each card being a new main color. It will give you a great exercise to see what each combination gives.


mixing warms with cools from time to time, Linda you are quite correct in that it works from time to time. Mud was not the best choice of words. Mixing a warm and a cool gives a more muted color than mixing the same temperature together, and some colors can swing either way depending on what color is placed next to it. Very little is totally warm or totally cool. But when all I had was Cad yellow, Cad red and ultramarine blue, I could never get the color I wanted. Now mixing is getting easier and I'm starting to get the colors I want..

Howard, I forgot about Yellow Ocher, love that color. I too like all the iridescence and the interference colors. I'm also angeling towards the metallics. I am finding that I am falling in love with the mediums. The wetting spray works quite well today.

On the Iridescence I purchased only the basics and then an iridescence medium to add to any other color

eyepaint
04-05-2008, 11:29 PM
I don't think I'd weed anything out, to be honest (though with the Kroma stuff, I'm tempted). Sooner or later it'll get used somewhere.

Kroma:
Cerulean Blue
Transparent Red Oxide
Cadmium Medium Yellow
Cadmium Orange
Titanium White



May I ask what you're not happy with about the Kroma paints? I have had my eye on them. I use Stevenson in the split-primary as others have mentioned.

Cheers,

Magical_Realist
04-06-2008, 04:30 AM
I've already done a lot of weeding out; I'm down to the colors I can get the most mileage out of, these days. And my days of impulse-buying tubes of paint simply because the color looked interesting are long gone.

Since I paint in a rather fiddly, fussy way (glazing and scumbling over a detailed monochrome underpainting), my palette
is geared toward those techniques.

Everything is Golden Fluid Acrylics. Here's the essentials, the colors I can't paint without:
Bone Black
Burnt Umber (I only use this as a glaze, usually in flesh tones)
Burnt Sienna (ditto)
Raw Umber (this and Titanium White are my main underpainting colors)
Titanium White
Zinc White (I can't believe it took me so long to "discover" this one!)
Ultramarine Blue
Phthalo Blue
Phthalo Green
Hansa Yellow Light
Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide (only as a glaze color)
Yellow Ochre
Cadmium Red Medium (I have to buy this one as a tube color)
Quinacridone Crimson

I occasionally use (but can live without):
Cerulean Blue
Cobalt Blue
Titan Buff (sometimes works as part of a transluscent glaze when painting skintones)

Then there are some colors I don't use very often, but they are great for certain specialized uses, and I'd be very reluctant to give them up:
Anthraquinone Blue (an incredibly deep, rich blue that's absolutely breathtaking as a glaze, but dies horribly in tints or mixtures)
Quinacridone Magenta (anytime I have to mix intense blue-pinks or any purples, this is the stuff)
Quinacridone Gold (like Anthraquinone Blue, it's absolutely gorgeous as a glaze color. Good thing I stocked up years ago, because the pure Quinacridone version is no longer available)
Green Gold (I've found this useful as a glaze color, and in underpainting yellowy or backlit foliage)
Phthalo Turquoise (again, a good glaze color, and on exceedingly rare occasions it's the exact color I need in a mixture)

I imagine it has been discussed before, but is there a "place"/thread or website, I can go to find out which are transparent colors, and which are opaque?Many manufacturers put that information on the tube, or have a fact sheet available (ask at your art supply store--they may have copies on hand). If not, you can always look it up on the manufacturer's website.

Do you all keep those separated, or do you actually remember which are which? How long does it take to remember?I remember which ones are transparent, but that's simply knowledge gained through using them. The more you paint and work with different pigments, the easier it will be to remember.

howyadoin
04-06-2008, 04:36 AM
May I ask what you're not happy with about the Kroma paints?Oh, that's easy - their paints have no body whatsoever. I've used gouache with more substance. There's so much water in them that mixing two colours will make bubbles in the paint. Now, if weak, soupy paint is your thing, by all means give it a shot. Otherwise...

frodron
04-06-2008, 05:05 AM
I am also finding this thread very interesting.
However, a point that I don't think anyone has mentioned is that your palette surely depends on the type of subject you paint the most.
For example, someone who paints flowers is liable to have a somewhat different palette to someone who prefers to paint seascapes.

couturej
04-06-2008, 08:55 AM
Here's my palette:

Naples Yellow
Cadmium Yellow Light
Brilliant Yellow Green
Phthalo Green - sometimes Veridian
Pthalo Blue - sometimes Prussian Blue or Cerulean Blue
Ultramarine Blue - sometimes Cobalt Blue
Dioxazine Purple
Alizarin Crimson
Cadmium Red Light
Carmium Orange

Portrait Tone
Yellow Oxide
Burnt Umber
Burnt Sienna
Paynes Gray
Ivory Black

Einion
04-06-2008, 10:05 AM
But knowing me, being a lover of colour it would over time expand again to the 30 or so colours that I have. :o
Yeah, I think we all know what that's like! Must... stop... buying... paint... :lol:


Hmm, seems I'm not alone in owning too many colours.
One man's too many is another man's not enough :D

Limited palettes have their adherents, and I paint with one myself sometimes, but they are limiting by their very nature.

At a push I might add Yellow Ochre and Burnt Umber to that list, though only for the sake of laziness.
Earth colours are not merely a convenience, just something for the lazy. Although you can certainly mix something like nearly any earth from reds, yellows, blues it's much more expedient to start with an earth, a lot cheaper too.

BTW, with regard to your watercolour palette, genuine Ali Crimson?


It might be good for me to start with a augmented split primary palette.
That's exactly what the basis of my palette would be.


Mixing a cool and a warm primary create mud.
It's a little more complex than that. There's more on this here and in Colour Theory & Mixing but we should all remember that pigments sometimes mix unexpectedly; the basic colour plays a big part but so does the pigment type (organic or inorganic/mineral). As an example one could compare the greens you get from Azo Yellow Light (Hansa Yellow Light) and Phthalo Blue Green Shade v. those from Cadmium Lemon with the same blue.

Plus on top of that, for some painters, mixing is not just about the colour it's about what the mixture will be like in other ways - relative opacity being an important one.


However, a point that I don't think anyone has mentioned is that your palette surely depends on the type of subject you paint the most.
Up to a point, yes. Floral painting, as you mention, is a good example of something that often requires a bit more of a specialised palette. But for general painting a well-chosen palette can suffice for everything you're likely to paint for the rest of your life. You don't have to use all the paints all the time, but they're there if you need them.

I'd be just as happy painting flowers as I would a grey, overcast landscape with the palette I'd pick.

Einion

Einion
04-06-2008, 10:14 AM
IF I recall correctly, the primaries are red, blue, yellow?
Cyan, magenta and yellow really. But what we pick as primaries in a painting palette don't have to conform to that (even the best picks for CMY aren't perfect anyway).

following that the split would be that each shade has a warm (cad. red light, cad. yellow, lt. and phthalo blue) and cool side(magenta, hansa yellow, ultramarine blue)??
You don't have to think of them as 'warm' and 'cool' versions of each colour, in fact I would encourage you not to.

Instead if you think of having a green-yellow, orange-yellow, orange-red, violet-red (or magenta-red) etc. it's a lot more useful IMO. This way we don't get confuzzled by questions like "Which one is the warm blue?" that really open up a maze of issues. There's an example right above, see where dejaa posted the two blues?
Ultramarine blue (cool)
Pthalo Blue (warm)
Well a lot of people who think this way think of phthalo blue as the cold one.

That's one of the many reasons I think it's better to think of colour differently. Although the basic warm/cool divide in colour overall is easy to see and appreciate, when you want to define colours with even a little more accuracy it helps to use a different way of looking at colour.

The zinc white is translucent? versus the titanium which is not?
Yes. Most people don't need Zinc White, unless you think you'll require semitransparent glazing tints I would suggest you skip it for now unless you feel you just have to try it out :) It's cheap enough, so it's not a bank-breaker if you find you don't have much use for it.

Tho' as I found the other day, without much yellow, brown is tough to attain; so for me burnt sienna and burnt umber help me out alot (spoiled here). :)
Browns are mostly darker and duller oranges (yes, including your coffee with milk in it, your favourite chocolate, iced tea - all versions of orange essentially).

Some earths are definitely worth getting to help us with this range of colour; I sometimes paint without them, but I wouldn't like to always paint without them; any more than I want to mix black if I decide I need it.

I enjoy all the extra colors, but find that I am tending to mix alot of my own...
By the way, you mentioned Payne's Grey in your earlier post? This is commonly a simple mixture of ultramarine and black in case you didn't know.

Which leads me back to the question of opaque and transluscent...I bought flesh tone...to use as a base...and discovered the one I bought won't cover sketch marks...no matter how thick I put it on...no matter how many coats; I would say that makes it very transluscent? :confused:
Yep, some paints are opaque, some are transparent and a number are somewhere in between.

I imagine it has been discussed before, but is there a "place"/thread or website, I can go to find out which are transparent colors, and which are opaque?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471775

Do you all keep those separated, or do you actually remember which are which?
Easy to remember which are which one you've been around them a while. It's no more difficult than remembering whether it's oregano or basil for this sauce, cinnamon or nutmeg for this cake etc. :)

Einion

Einion
04-06-2008, 10:16 AM
I mostly paint opaquely, so here's the basic must-have palette for me:
Cadmium Yellow Light/Cadmium Lemon
Cadmium Yellow Medium
Isoindolinone Yellow (PY110)
Cadmium Red Light
Quinacridone Magenta
French Ultramarine
Phthalo Blue Green Shade
Chromium Oxide Green
Yellow Ochre/Mars Yellow
Red Oxide
Burnt Umber
Mars Black
Titanium White

And some additional colours I'd pick up at some point:
Transparent Yellow Iron Oxide
Transparent Red Iron Oxide
Dioxazine Purple
and maybe Phthalo Green Blue Shade or Yellow Shade

Einion

AMuse
04-06-2008, 11:02 AM
Dang... I knew I forgot something at the art store! (smacks forehead) zinc white was on my list!

coming from watercolour I keep forgetting white (since I never used it before!) and I do a lot of glazing and the titanium white makes me crazy! LOL

eyepaint
04-06-2008, 11:07 AM
Oh, that's easy - their paints have no body whatsoever. I've used gouache with more substance. There's so much water in them that mixing two colours will make bubbles in the paint. Now, if weak, soupy paint is your thing, by all means give it a shot. Otherwise...

Thanks for the heads up. I'll continue to steer clear of their paint :)

gaykir
04-06-2008, 11:08 AM
Well I can see there may be some fun to be had in my own studio! There are paints I see others are using, I own them and have never tried them. Perhaps I should break out and try some of these un-touched tubes such as:

Golden Transparent Red Oxide
Golden Interference Blue (fine)

I know there are other colors out there. Am I the only one who has paints that I have never tried??

C_Line
04-06-2008, 11:16 AM
A color I haven't seen listed, but must on my "can't live without" list is Sap Green - love it's transparency. And Napthol Red - love it's brilliance and transparency. Mix the two by the way you get an incredible transparent sepia.

susme48
04-06-2008, 12:12 PM
Einion, cannot help but be amazed at the wealth of info...thank you so much. Also cannot help but chuckle here :lol: you are talking to the lady who now has to look up everything these days when she cooks; it is the stress I think. But at least I can separate them for now, and perhaps I will remember them better for doing that. Thanks again for starting this...it has helped me! :)

Dejaa, thanks for all your help too...one of my books suggested that, but I skipped that lesson...mistake. :o Will do that this am.

Kathy, I am totally facinated by how everyone paints. :) I find myself going behind reception desks and standing in hallways, etc, to look at paintings now. Not that I did not notice them before, but now I want to know "how" :lol: . Oh, and we do not drink (long story), alcohol that is...lots of coffee. :)

AMuse
04-06-2008, 12:32 PM
LOL Susan... if you were to poke a needle in my arm you would get coffee (and chocolate!)

it's all testing for me right now - but I'm enjoying the process! :-)

Thomas Greaves
04-06-2008, 12:34 PM
originally posted byEinion[B]:
Limited palettes have their adherents, and I paint with one myself sometimes, but they are limiting by their very nature.
With acrylics, I can only speak from limited experience, though I am not personally finding this to be true [YET!] It was certainly not my experience in 30yrs of watercolours.
originally posted by [B]Einion:
Earth colours are not merely a convenience, just something for the lazy. Although you can certainly mix something like nearly any earth from reds, yellows, blues it's much more expedient to start with an earth, a lot cheaper too.
What you say is true...I speak only from a personal standpoint. My choice to mix my own forces me to think much harder regarding exactly what colour I am aiming for. Working with a limitted palette also, for me, results in far less wastage overall. Almost everything gets used before the session ends.
originally posted by Einion:
BTW, with regard to your watercolour palette, genuine Ali Crimson?
I use genuine alizarin, from W&N, even though there is controversy regarding light-fastness, [anyway, my opinion is that only a fool would expose a watercolour painting to strong light!] I have tried the hues and the permanents, but I find them a tad cooler than the original, which is a little limiting when working with such a tight palette.

susme48
04-06-2008, 02:52 PM
Oh my, am I amazed here. I was pretty sure I had all student grade paint...but thought I had a few that were not...I have only one, My Paynes gray is Golden's. :o

That, I assume, limits the quality as well as the transparency...since I find that out of 28 colors, there are only 6 that are close to opaque, aside from the black and tit. white. I found that the Cadmiums I had were all "hues" and were far from opaque. :) This I see would explain some of the mixing messes I get into, as well as the ones that occasionally work in spite of me. :lol:

Am no where near done playing, and I know this is stuff y'all have done before, but it is fun and I am learning...I found it interesting to play with the transparent/translucent paints...they don't all mix completely and if you mix an opaque with them it tends to dominate, and seems to muddy things. By the time I got done, I had mostly beautiful mud, and just a few really stunning colors...:lol: .

I have not even begun to think about warm and cool mixtures right now...but this is quite illuminating. :) Now if I can just remember to keep writing down what I learn...I will perhaps do better.

Again, tremendous thanks to all those who put up with my questions, and provided invaluable information!! :clap:

~~Kathleen
04-06-2008, 03:11 PM
I have been following this thread very closely.
As a newcomer to "serious" painting, palettes are actually my main concern.
As I paint (now) a variety of things, I am leaning toward a limited palette, with a few exceptions being that I mix a lot of my colours.
I am learning (I wonder how much?), and I am so thankful for you Einon for beginning this thread.
Hopefully when I compile a general list, I will be able to figure out which colours are the most popular, and go from there.
~~Kathleen

Bill_E
04-06-2008, 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyepaint
May I ask what you're not happy with about the Kroma paints?


Oh, that's easy - their paints have no body whatsoever. I've used gouache with more substance. There's so much water in them that mixing two colours will make bubbles in the paint. Now, if weak, soupy paint is your thing, by all means give it a shot. Otherwise...

I would agree that Tri-Art and Golden are thicker, but I haven't had that experience with Kroma. I use a lot of Kroma (thick body, not liquid) and I am generally pleased with them. My only complaint is that they tend toward the transparent side. I probably prefer Tri-Art to Kroma, but only because of slightly higher opacity / pigment load (or at least it seems so).

keenart
04-07-2008, 12:11 AM
I used the standard artist’s palette for many years, 12 to 16 colors, one light and cool and one warm and darker of each color.

As I had to move between the world of pigments and the new digital revolution I switched to a more subdued and pastel palette to suit the printers palette. Unless I am asked to use the full artist’s palette I use the following:

Titanium White
Primary Yellow
Primary Red
Primary Blue
Deep Black

I use the softer acrylics created by the German firm Lukas named Lukascyrl Liquid Acrylics. If asked for an extended palette in this brand I also will use the following:

Viridian
Helio genuine Orange
Permanent Violet

It does require a good knowledge of mixing so I have several pieces of watercolor paper on my easel to text each mix before brush application.

Otherwise for the traditional oil paints and acrylics I use Winsor & Newton and Liquitex. No sense in listing these as previous posts have covered the pigment types, of which I use about 24 colors for oils and 32 for acrylics.

sonita
04-07-2008, 12:25 AM
I think if you read the paint tubes correctly there is always some input if is is opaque, transparent or semi tr.
I do have a mountain of colors and I am surr some of them I choose on a regular bases :)...but which and how I couln't tell ya right know. I know that I need:
Titanum white
zinc white
cad red med
cad yellow med
hookers greenj
phat. blue...etc
Soni

margmackisack
04-07-2008, 03:33 AM
I'm fascinated. I could never get by without raw sienna but nobody else seems to give it a look-in!
Marg

idylbrush
04-07-2008, 05:21 AM
I'm fascinated. I could never get by without raw sienna but nobody else seems to give it a look-in!
Marg

I rather like raw and burnt, sienna and umber.

Katwyld
04-07-2008, 11:11 AM
Wow... just.. wow... heh

Most of my paints are stil W&N, but I've got a bunch of Golden Fluids now, too... and I've found I don't like them for most applications. :lol: Ah well, they were all christmas presents so it's not like I wasted money on them... and I've found I rather like them for doing abstract kind of stuff with.

I'm getting into the Golden Heavy Body now, and they're not as thick as I thought they'd be, and I'm glad for that. As I run out of my W&N, I'll replace them with Golden, but I think there's likely a few tubes I'll never use up. Again, comes down to experimenting and knowing now what I like and don't like.

I honestly, at this point, couldn't live without my umbers and siennas... I use them a lot. I've played with mixing browns, and found some neat combinations, but I use a lot of paint when I mix (:o) so it just seems more economical to buy the tube of it instead.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only 'paint junky' here. heh

Einion, that's a lot of information, and may keep me sane here at work... something to read when I'm bored! I've gone into the Color Theory forum, but there's so much to look through, I get a little lost and confused at times. :p

My palette? I have to have the following (this is off the top of my head as I'm at work at the moment):

Titanium White
Black (I think I have Mars Black)
Winsor Blue (another W&N paint)
Sap Green
Permanent Green Hue (I think medium, but don't quote me there)
Cadmium Yellow
Burnt Umber
Yellow Ochre
Raw Sienna
Burnt Sienna
Red (I can't remember if it's the Cadmium or Vermillion off the top of my head, though)

I've got 3 different blues (the one listed above as well as Ultramarine and another one who's name escapes me at the moment), and only use my Winsor... don't know what the replacement will be with Golden, but I'll find that when I get there. I don't really care for the other two blues, but I'm sure I'll find a use for them eventually.

I don't use orange a lot, but mix it if I need it, and I prefer mixing my purple even though I do have a tube of Violet or something like that.

I'm loving this thread... there's a lot to learn from here. :)

howyadoin
04-07-2008, 04:50 PM
I would agree that Tri-Art and Golden are thicker, but I haven't had that experience with Kroma.Heh. Maybe I coincidentally happened to get bad tubes of every kind I bought.

Note to self: never try Russian Roulette.

MrsG_SoCal
04-07-2008, 07:00 PM
Titanium White
Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber
Raw Sienna
Raw Umber
Cad. Red Light
Alizarin Crimson
Naples Yellow or Yellow Ochre
Cad. Yellow Medium
Prussian Blue
Cobalt Blue
Cerulean Blue
Ultramarine Blue (yeah, I love blues)
Hookers Green
Dioxazine Purple
Paynes Gray

I can't remember the last time I used true black.

Bill_E
04-07-2008, 07:39 PM
Heh. Maybe I coincidentally happened to get bad tubes of every kind I bought.

Note to self: never try Russian Roulette. :lol: Maybe 'eh. I bought an assortment last summer, the only purchase of Kroma I've made so I don't know how consistent the quality is. I tend to work "thin" too so that may make a difference. I do agree that they don't have the body of Tri-Art and Golden. Sometimes I want a fat brush stroke and it just isn't there with Kroma.


I should say something about my palette here. I would probably chose a split primary with a few extras like Umber and Sienna, I would also probably get a Hookers green and Yellow Oxide. Probably Tri-Art and Golden.

newday
04-07-2008, 09:41 PM
I think most of us have a colour or two (or ten!) that we don't really use any longer and paint happily without. So as an exercise, if you had to build your palette again - say, because you moved and your paints got lost in transit - how large or small would it be compared to what you currently own?

Myself, I now have a large collection of acrylics (with multiple versions of the same colour in some cases, from comparative tests of different brands) but if I were to start from scratch I would only need about 12-15 paints.

If anyone would like to list the entire palette by name I'm sure others would find it very useful.

Einion
Alizarin Crimson, Cadmium red, Ultramarine blue, Cerulean Blue, Cadmium Yellow, Lemon yellow, Burnt Sienna, Black & White. Warm and cool of each colour and you can mix all the colours you need and they will have a subtlety about them that cannot be had straight from a tube. Also, using these colours you will develop your very own recognisable pallette.

keenart
04-07-2008, 11:47 PM
It seems to me that with so many color choices available today many artists do not create a set palette and stick to it as many of the old masters did. I believe that is why their art work was so consistent. I know I was taught to paint with a set palette of a given number of colors and pigment types and not to change. Human nature being what it is, my palette often gets changed according to the genre I must paint.

Café LoLa
04-08-2008, 12:58 AM
Okay. I had that opportunity to buy a whole new palette for class, so mostly it was a list of colours I needed, but after using these set of colours, I am sold on my current palette.

Stevenson's Acrylics:

Hansa Yellow Lemon
Cadmium Yellow Middle
Azo Red Light
Cadmium Red Middle
Alizarin Crimson (apparently they have just discontinued this, and is now permanent crimson. I have 2 tubes of Alizarin Crimson)
Ultramarine Blue
Phthalo Blue
Dioxazine Purple

Hooker's Green
Titanium White
Yellow ochre


I still have some of my Kroma Acrylics. What Howyadoing says is true - not enough pigment load. I think it's great for glazing and layering transparent colours, but when you want to go full on, Stevenson does it for me.

I prefer Stevenson to Tri-Art or Golden as it doesn't have that high-sheen look, so it's more flexible - you can get that straight, pastel look, or you can mix it with various mediums (ie Golden glazing, or Stevenson impasto gel, etc) and get that watercolor, or oil look, so it's quite versatile, and very pigment-loaded.

howyadoin
04-08-2008, 03:44 AM
It seems to me that with so many color choices available today many artists do not create a set palette and stick to it as many of the old masters did. I believe that is why their art work was so consistent. I know I was taught to paint with a set palette of a given number of colors and pigment types and not to change. Human nature being what it is, my palette often gets changed according to the genre I must paint.I work in any number of different styles, media, and subject matter. Why artificially restrict myself to one colour palette?

keenart
04-08-2008, 06:35 AM
That is a good point, why would you want to work in only a restricted palette? Perhaps you really get good at using the same tools over and over again. And, as a fine artist you are expected to achieve that level of visual recognition through consistency.

As a graphic artist or an illustrator that is not necessarily true and I may need many more colors to suit the employer or the printers.

We all work under different circumstances, but the old masters would certainly say, “Know your tools well and your colors even better.” That is easily achieved with a fixed palette, of which many famous artists use, such as Stobarth, etc.

Katwyld
04-08-2008, 10:33 AM
Yes, but is consistancy only the colors we use, or is it also our brush strokes, what we choose to paint, and possibly the consistancy of a variety of colors? Something else to consider is that we DO have the choices available, where the 'old masters' didn't so much... what would they do in this day and age? Would they stick with a set palette, or would they have more variety since it is available?

AMuse
04-08-2008, 11:00 AM
My personal feeling is that when you are starting out, learning about colour mixing and technique, a limited palette is great... it helps you figure things out.

My watercolour palette started out with eight colours. I have almost twenty now, but they are all colours that I use. and I can do almost anything with them.

my acrylic palette started out with nine colours, now I have added more fun colours, like interference colours, but my basic palette is still the same nine, for now until I get a handle on how this medium works... then I will probably go wild! LOL