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AmesArt
03-09-2008, 12:38 AM
I went to the store today and bought some Canson Mi-Tientes assorted paper, some (either Strathmore or Stonehenge) pastel paper (assorted I think), a heavy cream colored sketchbook paper pad, and some Vellum Bristolboard. Which would be the best for oil pastels? I know everyone seems to like Art Spectrum alot but the store doesn't carry it.

Pat Isaac
03-09-2008, 11:07 AM
I'm not really sure. I personally have a difficult time with Canson, but others have had some success. The texture bothers me, and it is hard to build up layers, but it does have a smooth side and that is somewhat better. I haven't tried the other papers, but I would suggest that you do some paintings on each one and see what you like best.

Pat

AmesArt
03-09-2008, 01:37 PM
What do you use?

Pat Isaac
03-09-2008, 01:59 PM
I use Colorfix, but more recently have been working on gesso primed masonite with an oil underpainting and clayboard with 2 coaats of colorfix primer. I have also use cold pressed water color paper.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
03-09-2008, 04:24 PM
I agree with Pat that there is no simple answer to your question. You will find different opinions on what paper to use just as you find different ideas as to what the best brand of Artist grade OP is. It really depends on how you work and what effect you wish to achieve.
Most local craft stores will not carry many of the materials referred to in this forum since they aren't geared to cater to artists but the general public. Most people here probably get their materials from online suppliers. There are many, but here are links to three of the more popular ones that would probably have most of the things you find mentioned here:
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/Default.asp
http://www.dickblick.com/
http://www.cheapjoes.com/
There are many others, these are just 3 popular ones.
Also, you may have already seen this, but if not the following post by Jane is an excellent introduction to the various types, brands, etc of materials needed to get started with basic work in OP. The post and the discussion in the thread containing it are well worth looking over:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5946193
Pat has given you good advice in suggesting you take the OP's you have and samples of each type of paper (support) you purchased and trying them out. A good excercise would be to take samples of the supports and make color charts of each OP so you can see how the colors appear and get an idea of how they feel as you apply them.
One problem often cited about papers like Canson and Strathmore is that they are really developed for soft or dry pastel, not OP. This results in a couple of problems. First, they are relatively thin and you need to attach them somehow to a firm backing to make the heavier pressure generally neaeded to make marks with OP's not move or wrinkle the paper as you work. Second, some people find the oil in the OP's seep into and through the paper. Third, they do not tolerate much in the way of scraping, heavy reworking, etc. as heavier papers.
While colorfix has a treated surfact to provide lots of "tooth" to grip the OP, heavy tooth is not really required to work with OP, there fore, depending on what effect you are shooting for, a smoother surface such as the Bristol might be better. Many people have found that heavier grades of watercolor paper work well for OP. (Typically, 140# or 300# grades are good, lighter ones not so good). The advantage here is that you can tone the paper to whatever ground color you wish with simple watercolor washes that can be worked over with OP after they are thouroughly dry. You may even choose to do an underpainting in watercolor or gouache prior to using the OP. Sennelier produces a special Oil Pastel Card in Pad form of various sizes that can be obtained from online suppliers. (I'm not certain, but looking at it, the appearance is quite similar to heavy weight watercolor paper and it would not surprise me if it is simply a modified watercolor paper).
I hope this is helpful. I know (as someone relatively new to this myself) that a lot of this can seem confusing at times. However, you are doing the correct thing; when you aren't sure, ask and someone is always willing to offer help here!
Good luck with your art.
Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

starblue
03-09-2008, 06:33 PM
I think you've got a great assortment of paper to start out with. Remember, OP's can be used on virtually any surface without preparation of any kind--wood, metal, plastic, glass, clayboard, canvas, and maybe even paper :)--so don't get paranoid about using the "wrong" surface. As you get better you may eventually decide some surfaces don't work well for you, but by then you'll have sound reasons for deciding that. In the meantime, just have fun with it. :wave:

wabbitt
03-10-2008, 03:29 PM
Bob has managed to put into words what I tried to write this weekend. By my own experimenting, I've decided I don't like sanded papers for OP but bristol is too smooth for me, so I've been putting a layer of gesso. I've settled on gessoed 140lb. watercolor paper because the acrylic gesso gives me tooth as well as a surface I can rework if things go badly (simply wipe off with a rag dipped in OMS.)

I don't knock the canson, not even the rough side. Yes, it's a bit thin, too thin to use OMS or gesso but mi-tientes comes in many colors. I don't mind the holes, in fact I purposely let the paper show through as part of the painting. The other reason people don't like canson is that it tends to fade with time. This isn't an issue for me, as I'm not producing art to sell.

AmesArt
03-11-2008, 05:21 AM
Oh, Canson isn't archival quality? I want to use paper (or other material) that will last and that I can sell if I happen to get a good result. I've heard alot of people say they use Canson so I just figured it was good quality....

starblue
03-11-2008, 06:27 AM
Canson is supposed to be archival (except for one color, I think it's black, which Canson documents), but some people in the Pastel forum have reported other colors fade too. Maybe these reports are from years ago and Canson has since fixed it, or maybe not. I'm too new to say.

AmesArt
03-11-2008, 06:41 AM
Oh ok, what is a good archival black paper to get? I really want to work with oil pastels on black paper but I couldn't find any ( I don't think black is included in this assortment pack anyway, I'll have to check)

AmesArt
03-11-2008, 06:42 AM
One more thing....the paper does have the "acid free" symbol on it, and I always thought that = archival ....

starblue
03-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Then maybe things have changed recently; my Canson color chart specifically says black is "not acid-free" and it's the only color so marked, the rest are marked "archival". I'm pretty new to art so I can't speak beyond what the brochure states.

AmesArt
03-12-2008, 02:21 AM
Ok cool so they should all be archival since I don't have any black canson paper. Anyone know of any black color paper I can get that is archival?

Scarefishcrow
03-12-2008, 03:27 AM
Many people here like to use Art Spectrum Colourfix paper. It is essentially a heavy (140#) watercolor paper that is coated with a special primer that gives the surface the feel of a fine sandpaper. This give the paper lots of "tooth" to grip and hold the OP. It comes in about 16 colors, including black. You will probably have to order it online, but any of the following suppliers generally carry it. It is probably worth checking out at least a couple of them and requesting their large catalog since they carry tons of aart supplies of all types and the catalogs usually give some general information about the products that might be helpful to you in seeing what is available.
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/Default.asp
http://www.dickblick.com/
http://www.cheapjoes.com/

Hope this helps.


Bill

:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
03-12-2008, 08:10 AM
That would be my choice also or you could get a jar of their primer and cover some of the paper you have.

Pat

AmesArt
03-12-2008, 10:29 AM
After coming back from the art store today I've decided online shopping would be sooo much easier! Easier to find the products I'm looking for instead of having to search the store, and also online stores give product descriptions which can't be found on alot of the products in store. And I've been doing some figuring with prices and I don't think online shopping would be any more expensive than buying in store (even with shipping prices, ...especially if you catch the sales!) I'll check out that paper...whenever I have some more spending cash haha.

Scarefishcrow
03-12-2008, 10:53 AM
If you request a catalog then they will send you sale catalogs periodically when they have them (from the online stores). If you get their annual catalog it saves a lot of time searching online and you can browse the selection and learn what's available at your leisure!

At Cheap Joe's you can actually download the catalog. I'm not sure about the others.

Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
03-12-2008, 04:42 PM
Just get yourself on their email list and you have notice of all their sales. I have found that is easier too and the shipping cost isn't too bad, especially if you wait to order a larger order. I have a large art supply store near me that offers lower prices, but they are not as low as the big catalog companies.

Pat