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Phil Coleman
03-03-2008, 07:23 AM
I Have been using soft pastels for a short time and I do a little water colour and water based oil painting.
I like the idea of trying water soluble pastels and have just ordered a small set of 15 off Ebay. The Caran D'ache aquarelle wax pastels.
What i would like to ask and i am sorry if i am duplicating any questions that have been asked previously is this:- How does this brand compare to others that may be available and what other manufactures of this type of pastel are there which can be thinned by water alone, i tend to get severe headaches after exposure to solvents, so this is my only option.
Would you say that you may be somewhat restricted on your size of work with this medium and can it be used in conjunction with a watercolour under painting?
Also can one work with a restricted palette and mix the colours on the canvas or does this medium tend to be as compulsive as the soft pastels where by some may acquire thousands of shades from different manufactures. I think i have some 1100 soft pastels I and would still class myself as being in the novice class!
I also like to work in a very suggestive manner, possible on a sort of impressionist style, capturing movement and injecting life and atmosphere without over doing the detail, again can oil pastels be used for theirs style satisfactorily?
Are there any notable artists[ besides yourselves here that displays the mastery which may be achieved by this medium} on the net?
If you could also suggest any other threads which may relate to my questions i would also be very grateful.

Thanks.

Pat Isaac
03-03-2008, 09:22 AM
The only water soluble oil pastel that I know of is made by Portfolio. I do believe that the Caran D'ache water solubles are not oil pastels.
You could check out the thread about tools and materials in the studio forum.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439023
You can use oil pastels without any solvents, much like the soft pastels and in an impressionistic method.
Theer are many threads in our library which might be helpful.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=394
Yes, you can mix the colors on the canvas and oil pastel work well with a watercolor underpainting.
You should check out the oil pastel society for many accomplished oil pastel artists. www.oilpastelsociety.com
ZIf yo have more questions, please ask as we are here to help. Welcome.:wave:
Pat

LJW
03-03-2008, 10:22 AM
I would like to emphasize the point that oil pastels can be used without solvents. My normal way of application involves applying strokes with the OPs and then blending with a colour shaper. Colour shapers clean up with just a wipe with a paper towel - no solvent needed. The only time I use odourless mineral spirits is if I want to correct an area in my painting. I remove the OPs from my paper first by scraping away most of it, and then use a bit of OMS on a Q-tip to remove any remaining. When painting on a smooth gessoed surface, however, rubbing alcohol will serve the same purpose.

I have the Caran d'Ache Neocolor II water-soluble crayons. When you apply water, the result is like a watercolour painting, not like an OP painting. There are very few water-soluble wax-based crayons available.

There are fewer professional grades OPs available than soft pastels, but I gradually increased the number I have so that I now have all the Senneliers, all the Holbein Artist and most of the Caran d'Ache Neopastels. I also purchased a few of the Cray Pas Specialist but I don't like them. That's a total of approximately 460 OPs and that's really all that I will be buying. The Holbein Artist line, which included 225 OPs (five values in 45 hues) has recently been reduced by the elimination of values 2 and 4, although you can still get the full sets from a few on-line retailers. Hope this helps. Jane

sparkling
03-03-2008, 01:08 PM
I like the idea of trying water soluble pastels and have just ordered a small set of 15 off Ebay. The Caran D'ache aquarelle wax pastels.
What i would like to ask and i am sorry if i am duplicating any questions that have been asked previously is this:- How does this brand compare to others that may be available and what other manufactures of this type of pastel are there which can be thinned by water alone, i tend to get severe headaches after exposure to solvents, so this is my only option.
Would you say that you may be somewhat restricted on your size of work with this medium and can it be used in conjunction with a watercolour under painting?
Also can one work with a restricted palette and mix the colours on the canvas or does this medium tend to be as compulsive as the soft pastels where by some may acquire thousands of shades from different manufactures. I think i have some 1100 soft pastels I and would still class myself as being in the novice class!
I also like to work in a very suggestive manner, possible on a sort of impressionist style, capturing movement and injecting life and atmosphere without over doing the detail, again can oil pastels be used for theirs style satisfactorily?



First question: did you order the Neopastels or the Neocolor II? Both are described as watersolvable wax pastels.

I own a set of Neocolor II and would describe them as quite nice wax crayons as the term oil pastel does not fit to them.
You can mix them dry on your painting surface, though not as nice as you could do with regular (high quality) oil pastels and, of course, you can mix them by solving them with water.
Some people say that the Neocolors II behave like watercolors when wet, but I would rather compare them to gouache since they are more opaque than regular watercolors.
Yes, you can use them over watercolor underpaintings.
No, you are not restricted to a particular size of work.

Scarefishcrow
03-03-2008, 07:21 PM
Silvia--I have NeoColorII (water soluble, thin, wax like crayons), NeoArt (fat, heavily pigmented pastel-like sticks, but still waxy, watersoluble), and NeoPastel (NOT water soluble, but a true OP which is firmer than Holbeins and Senns, but still creamy in application. These are VERY MUCH adaptable to an impressionistic approach IMHO. The Van Gogh in my signature line was done using NeoPastels in a stroke based application. I will attach a larger version so you can see it better. Caran d'Ache does make a more traditional soft, dry pastel which I do not have and have not used, and NeoColor I (waxy crayons that are NOT water soluble).

While you can see that some do not consider all of these OP's, Caran d'ache markets them as "pastels". Their dry pastels are simply called Caran d'Ache soft Pastels. NeoPastels are the true OP's in the line. The following is a link to their "patel" products page


http://www.carandache.ch/products/fineart/catalogue/pastels.lbl

Hope this is helpful. The Caran d'ache product lines can be very confusing because of the similarity in the names and you need to make sure you are getting what you think you are.

:wave:
Bill

sparkling
03-04-2008, 01:18 AM
Oh, sorry, Bill you're right. I was confounding the Neopastel (which I use more often) to the NeoArt. Those people at Caran d'Ache make me headaches with all their lines being named Neo-Something ;) . (And just by the way, your version of van Gogh is looking wonderful!)

So my first question to Phil should read correctly:
did you order the Neoart or the Neocolor II? Both are described as watersolvable wax pastels.

Phil Coleman
03-04-2008, 11:02 AM
I would like to thanks you all for your advice, The pastels/crayons in question are the NEOART AQUARELLE WAX PASTELS or thats how they was advertised, quite broad stick of some 15mm dia.
I would possibly like to try the genuine OP providing that i can use them without using too much in the way of solvents. Even the Low odour solvents such as the odourless mineral spirit seems to give me headaches. The room i am using for my studio is only some 9' by 7;which doesn't help.
I have heard several brands mentioned here, if i purchase some i may consider opting for the sennelier, I love their soft pastels so hope the quality is similar in their oil ones, unless you advise otherwise.

Thanks!

LJW
03-04-2008, 11:30 AM
Phil, the Sennelier OPs are top quality. They are the softest of the professional OPs, followed by Holbein Artist, and then Caran d'Ache Neopastels, both brands of excellent quality as well. I started with Senneliers and have expanded from there. We each have our favourites, depending on our manner of working. The Senneliers are really easy to blend, the Caran d'Ache are blendable but being somewhat harder, are better for more linear work I find. Please have a look at the Getting Started in Oil Pastels thread in the OP Studio Forum for more info and pictures. Jane

Scarefishcrow
03-04-2008, 03:39 PM
I have a set of NeoArt and they are WAX PASTELS not OIL PASTELS. They are similar to very fat, shorter, much denser, higher pigment intensity versions of the NeoColor II's. They really are better for blocking in large areas quickly or using with water as an underpainting, IMHO. In some ways they seem to me to be huge sticks of waxy watercolor/gouche. Their diameter is about the size of a small watercolor pan or larger, and they are VERY dense and firm. You can pick color up from the end with a wet watercolor brush and, depending on how much you thin with water, use it somewhat like gouache or transparent watercolor.

IMHO, you should probably buy some small sampler sets of different brands and see what YOU like because we all have our favorites among the artist's grade brands. Even firmer OP's have utility in laying down an underpainting that is dryer and more ammenable to accepting the softer OPs as the work progresses. You may end up deciding that some of each brand would be useful if you continue to develop in OP.

I hope this helps and is not redundant.

Silvia--Don't worry. It seems that Caran d'Ache and the names for their products get everyone confused. I was trying to remember what they branded their dry, soft pastel line and had to look it up only to find they call them Caran d'Ache soft pastels. Duh....

:music: :heart: :music:
Bill

tubbekans
03-23-2008, 12:17 PM
Hi Phil,

You might want to take a look at the first few pages of the March Landscape challenge thread, link below. Wendy (Sundiver) showed us how she uses an acrylic underpainting for her OP paintings, along with a layer of acrylic pumice to give it some tooth.. I did the same thing but used Golden pastel ground instead.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478800&page=9

wabbitt
03-23-2008, 07:27 PM
Hmmm I must have been busy when this thread first came around. I have both the Portfolios and the Carans. I am so bad in watercolor and these got me better results. I also use them without water to get an OP look.

Check out these threads from the watercolor forum on using the Neocolor II's:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445136
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484712