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Santos
06-29-2002, 11:38 PM
Original- http://www.dianahsu.com/sixandahalf.htm

Copy- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=879118719


Original- http://www.dianahsu.com/tigerlilies.htm

Copy- http://members.aol.com/antiqforu//63102.jpeg

mf.sutton
06-30-2002, 04:58 AM
Wow, this is scandalous, great detective work :mad:

mike

JustjoGA
06-30-2002, 05:01 AM
Isn't there something someone can do to stop this guy!?

cagathoc
06-30-2002, 09:59 AM
Why is this idiot still selling on ebay? Does Diana know?

mame
06-30-2002, 10:17 AM
Joseph -

Found this script that can be included that disables right click and copying.

I'm having my web master aka my son-in-law write this in on my little web site. Isn't the end all be all of piracy but it can't hoit.'

http://www.jwweb.com/20010513.html

arlene
06-30-2002, 12:02 PM
here is another copied from Diana Hsu who happens to be a well respected artist on the Show Circuit.

Original:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=883211933
Copy:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=883211933

btw: i did write her and give her a heads up by referring her to this and the other thread. I would hope that if someone noticed my work being copied they would do the same for me.

Santos
06-30-2002, 01:07 PM
Original- http://watercolorart.com/unwrapped.html


Copy- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=879125977

Marlies Najaka, has already been informed of this infringement, and is contacting eBay.

paintfool
06-30-2002, 01:54 PM
Man! This creep needs to be stopped. I don't know much about e-bay but don't they have any policies regarding this sort of thing? They could lose a lot of artists business if this is allowed.

kjsspot
06-30-2002, 04:37 PM
Perhaps the artists that have been infringed upon should also write this place.

<<He is a member of the Boca Grande Art Alliance, a founding member of the Ohio River Federation of Artists and Craftsmen>>

arlene
06-30-2002, 04:58 PM
I received a nice reply from Diana Hsu before. She's going to be out of town for a few weeks but plans on pursuing it when she returns.

By the way this was also copied:
Original:
http://www.watercolorart.com/lily.html

Copy:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=879127293

CarlyHardy
06-30-2002, 05:11 PM
Ebay depends on its sellers to 'police' the categories and auctions. The artist whose work is being copied needs to contact ebay about the problem. But also, the letter that was posted here when infringement took place very blatantly!! would be great to send to the seller who is obviously copying someone else's work.

I sent a message to the artist at watercolorart. Perhaps several artists complaining to ebay will be more helpful.
carly

Laura Tasheiko
06-30-2002, 11:27 PM
This is truly amazing!!!!! How beligerant. Just tried to check out his stuff and his site is down (good because probably none of it was his anyway!), and he no longer has anything on eBay. And he took off all pics in feedback file. What a waste.

CarlyHardy
07-01-2002, 12:23 AM
The artist I emailed also notified ebay...perhaps with enough evidence, they removed his auctions!
carly

Laura Tasheiko
07-01-2002, 12:39 AM
Or he did himself, knowing folks were onto him he removed the evidence!
Artist have appropriated other artists works since forever, but usually as a learning exercise, not a regular practice. But then to do exact same composition in same medium, and do it over and over again...sign your name to it and call it your own??????

Aselka
07-01-2002, 01:36 AM
I know the person, who was bidding on "his" tiger lillies. She bought one of my paintings. I wonder if artists contacted the people, who bought those copies.

Aselka

Azure Wings
07-01-2002, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by Aselka
I know the person, who was bidding on "his" tiger lillies. She bought one of my paintings. I wonder if artists contacted the people, who bought those copies.

Aselka

I think the REAL original artists should have their lawyers - or lawyer (maybe this could be a class action suit, which might require him - and possibly Ebay - to reveal all of his records in order to discover just who else he has defrauded with his image thefts) probably ought to contact all of the buyers. In effect, they bought stolen property. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not the expert. But I do know that legally Mr. Elmer owes the artists he stole from all his ill-gotten profits, as well as being liable for damages and potentially court costs, too.

I really do think this ought to be a class action suit. You already know of several artists already affected. I'll bet anything Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts would be interested. I wonder if the suit has to be filed in the state of residence of one of the affected artists? Then the thing to do would be to find out whose state has the best copyright laws.... California's are pretty strong....

I hope people are copying all of this information off the web so the affected artists will have it - he is clearly monitoring the board, and taking the images off as they are mentioned.

Of the copies I have seen, though, he does have the ability to suck the life right out of the original, doesn't he? Real hack work. Sad to see it, but there it is.

And I do think the suggestion about contacting the arts organizations he is a member of is an excellent one. I don't think they would cotton too well to one of their own doing this kind of stuff....

Thinking he probably ain't the only one, and you gotta start somewhere,
Karen

Aselka
07-01-2002, 05:18 AM
I do totally agree with you. I just want to know all the details of this case, because it is a real lesson for everyone how to handle copyright situations. Though I do understand that the guy monitors this board and it would be unwise to put all info before legal actions are taken.

Kjsspot has already mentioned that the art organizations, where he is a member should be contacted:

<<He is a member of the Boca Grande Art Alliance, a founding member of the Ohio River Federation of Artists and Craftsmen>>

I'm really shocked. he seems to be painting forever and i could only imagine how many artists were robbed by him.

Aselka

CarlyHardy
07-02-2002, 12:46 AM
It's illegal to infringe on copyright and to profit off of another artist's work....but the buyers have done nothing illegal. Buying one of his paintings was not illegal. But I do feel sorry for those who think they purchased 'original' art.
carly

belladonna
07-06-2002, 03:26 PM
Took a look at the html code for preventing image theft. It does dissable right click but you can still hit file, then save as, and it saves the entire page from which you can pull the jpeg (or whatever) out of the folder and use it anyway. :( Sorry to burst the bubble...

kiwicockatoo
07-06-2002, 11:28 PM
Or, you can open the page in composer (netscape) and save it easily from there. Someone who bases their "career" on stolen work would know all the tricks...:mad:

timelady
07-07-2002, 05:00 AM
Or just take a screenshot (print screen on a PC). :( People who steal images will know all the tricks anyway. One of your best defenses is simply to use small low red images. Unfortunately they're not very useful for selling our artwork so we use better ones. Double :(.

Tina.

Sumafra
07-08-2002, 11:48 PM
Some people put a 'watermark' over their image, with either their name or 'copyrighted' or some similar message. that will prevent the image from bring reproduced, but it can still be copied from.

timelady
07-09-2002, 05:50 AM
Oops! I meant small low RES images, not small low red ones. Heehee. Although that would probably make the thiefs wonder a bit...

Tina.

MrSpringGreen
07-09-2002, 10:03 AM
and I was wondering:
Is this person real?
This could just be a few good assembly-line workers with their fictitious Elmer Fudd character alias.
Kinda hard to prosecute someone who doesn't exist.
I was wondering.....
OH, do those "Art Societies really exist either?
Sorry, the paranoia sometimes sneaks up on me.

Dave Carter
07-10-2002, 08:56 AM
Roy Elmer claims to have "...studied art and graphic design at Tulane University". This school only has 'art history' and no 'graphic arts' what so ever! There is no mention of this person at the Chamber of Commerce site for Milan, TN. and no mention on the local newpaper site. No listing in the yellow or white pages. No mention on the local arts group sites either. Beginning to wonder if this is real person...!?

Dave Carter
07-10-2002, 09:18 AM
Allen Flattman was an instructor at the now defunct John McGrady School of Art that Mr. Elmer claim to have attended...anyone want to ask him if he remembers Roy Elmer?

http://alanflattmann.com/biography.htm

This page includes an e-mail link to Mr. Flattman...

mame
07-10-2002, 09:31 AM
Gee, the guy is currently offering nothing for sale from his ebay site....?

arlene
07-10-2002, 03:13 PM
mame how can he...he know's we're onto him and will eventually find him out.

kjsspot
07-12-2002, 12:48 PM
Wow! Dave the Cyber Sleuth!! :D

Azure Wings
07-13-2002, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Dave Carter
Roy Elmer claims to have "...studied art and graphic design at Tulane University". This school only has 'art history' and no 'graphic arts' what so ever! There is no mention of this person at the Chamber of Commerce site for Milan, TN. and no mention on the local newpaper site. No listing in the yellow or white pages. No mention on the local arts group sites either. Beginning to wonder if this is real person...!?

Hmmmm... verrrrrry interesting....

Do those art associations he (?) mentions exist?

Finding this getting curiouser and curiouser,
Karen

P.S. Of course, if someone is such so thoroughly lacking an ethical sense, creating an artificial personae, with a made-up resume, is at least consistent....

Dave Carter
07-13-2002, 11:32 AM
This has the smell of an organized crime scam, but without further research it is hard to say...!

I think we will see this again under a different name.

Azure Wings
07-14-2002, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by Dave Carter
This has the smell of an organized crime scam, but without further research it is hard to say...!

I think we will see this again under a different name.

It would be good for folks to be diligent about watching the Ebay listings for similar copies and copyright infringements....

Appreciative of the legwork folks have done,
Karen