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View Full Version : OP Classroom: let's do a landscape


sundiver
02-19-2008, 08:21 PM
Yes, this is an O.P. classroom, but it's not so much a “how-to' as a “how I do”, since it might not suit everyone. Feel free to use the image in your own way and post it , and your progress pics, here!

Being asked to do this got me to think about what I do, which is good, since I often just dive right in and think about it later, sometimes spending a lot of time fighting an impulsive start.
Previous O.P. Classrooms have involved detailed work (Pat's gorgeous still lifes and portraits), so I thought we'd go for something a lot looser this time.

Anyway. Here's the image I started with, taken on a garden trail as I was viewing a fundraising plein air event in Prince Edward Island.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Feb-2008/6393-august_117.jpg
(I say plein air, but at a gorgeous lookout point I came across two artists with their backs to the scene, painting from photographs. Go figure.)
Slightly larger image in the RIL:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/RefLib/showphoto.php?photo=84126
I should have taken another, overexposed photo, because the camera over-contrasted as cameras will do, making the shadows black and over-lightening the rocks lining the trail. . I liked the contrast of sun and shadow, but there was much more colour than you see here. So we'll see if we can overcome the limitations of the photo. Hopefully my plein air experiences will be of help to me. We'll be learning together here!
I don't know what the flowers are, not peonies because it was August. I tend to make flowers look like coloured potatoes, so there's some challenge there for me. I think I'll pretend they are peonies.

recommended reading: the Feb 6 article from this blog, link was posted in the Landscape Forum, about painting from a photograph:
http://sixtyminuteartist.blogspot.com/

sundiver
02-19-2008, 08:29 PM
I want to concentrate on composition, colour and value masses, centre of interest, and edges.
With still life, you arrange the objects to your liking and can get a good composition from the get-go. With landscapes, we can't move the trees in reality, but can use our artistic license to give us a better comp.
Here's the plan: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Feb-2008/6393-comosition.jpg
Here are the value masses, posterized to 4 values. Too much dark in the middle, but that's the photo and I don't have to stick with that. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Feb-2008/6393-august_117_bw.jpg
Now the colour masses, done on a sketchpad with gouache, around 4” x6”. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Feb-2008/6393-ng_thumb.JPG

sundiver
02-19-2008, 08:38 PM
I did an underpainting with gouache on a 9x12 watercolour block. It could have been wc or acrylics but the gouache was handy. I hate fighting with little white spots, so if I start with a white surface I underpaint. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Feb-2008/6393-NG_underptg.JPG

When it was dry, I coated it with Golden Fine Pumice Gel, using an old brush and allowing lots of texture,
because I plan to use mostly broken colour. (detail)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Feb-2008/6393-closeuo_NG_with_pumice.JPG
Ok now I'm committed; there's no turning back! Time to get out the greasy sticks. I'll have something to post tomorrow (I hope).
Get out your o.p.s and join me!:thumbsup:

LJW
02-19-2008, 09:14 PM
Wendy, thanks so much for doing this. I love your soft landscapes, so I'll will be watching this develop with great interest. Already different in that you have done an underpainting and then coated the surface. Does that help to get rid of the texture of the watercolour paper (not the white holes problem but the larger texture) and are you using cold press? By the way, I think the flowers are cleomes. Jane

Pat Isaac
02-19-2008, 09:28 PM
Thanks so much, Wendy. I really do hope to try this as I am so landscape challenged. Yes, they are cleomes.
Wonderful start, I can already see the atmosphere.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-19-2008, 10:57 PM
Wendy,
I'm not very good, but can anyone play?? I love landscape and I love doing looser, somewhat impressionistic work. I have never done one of these "classrooms" before, so I don't want to become a pest. Should we post examples of what we are getting as you go along or simply work on our own? I know these may be dumb questions and I am sure there are answers somewhere but I'm not sure where to look and really want to try the landscape! I really like how you have given so much insight into the preparatory stages. For many of us "noobs" (Bob's, word; love it though) we tend to get caught up in the technique without really learning the process from "Concept to Completion" and all the stages between.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :D :D
This is gonna' be FUN!

:music: :heart: :music:

Herb
02-19-2008, 10:58 PM
I'm all eyes and ears, Wendy. It is really generous of you to do this classroom. Time permitting (starting a new job on Monday), I will have a go at it, too.

Scarefishcrow
02-19-2008, 11:28 PM
Herb,

Good luck with the new job!! Save some time for this. Don't let me be the only one!

Bill

Bars
02-20-2008, 01:25 AM
:wave: Hi Wendy, I was very interested in the underpaint, I wasn't sure what to do. I have no pumice gel and have not seen it around, can you suggest an alternative. Would Gesso work? I will await your reply with great anticipation. ( in plain words, impatience, allways the eager beaver) Bars:cat:

sundiver
02-20-2008, 05:55 AM
Jane,the pumice gel softenes the wc paper texture a little bit and lets the o.p. get into the "holes" a little easier. It's cold press wc paper. next project will be on hot press paper; I haven't tried that yet.

Bill, previous classrooms have gone both ways so I think it's up to you. As far as I know you are welcome to post your progress in this thread. We are all working and learning together.

Herb, good luck at the new job! Maybe playing along with us will help ease some of the stress of such a big change.

Bars, there are many similar products to pumice gel. Gesso will only work if it's clear, such as Liquitex Clear Gesso. There's also Golden Pastel Ground, Art Spectrum Clear Primer, a Windsor & Newton version, or you can mix some pumice or marble dust with acrylic matte medium and make your own. I've used all of the above except the AS brand and they are all very similar. They allow you to have a sanded surface over colour. Alternatively, you can use white Colorfix or Wallis and put the underpainting over it. I just find that a watercolour block is easy and cheap and I don't have to worry about the paper warping when I underpaint.
You can also use the wc paper without the sanded ground, but it might not take as many layers.

Now I need to get ready to go to my "other" classroom. I'll post something later this evening. Hopefully in this classroom here I won't have to send anyone to the office!:wink2:
Meanwhile, if any of you happen to find the "recipe" for mixing pumice with acrylic medium, could you post it? The proportions aren't all that crucial, but I know it's in here or the Soft Pastel forum somewhere.

Pat Isaac
02-20-2008, 07:31 AM
I've printed the photo Wendy and I'm taking it to my studio. I'm going to try it.

Good luck with the new job, Herb.

Pat

Beautiful_Butterflies_Studio
02-20-2008, 07:42 AM
I am sooooo wanting to learn this, so I am in!!!!!!
THANKYOU Wendy for a such huge commitment!!!!

Peiwend
02-20-2008, 12:26 PM
Wendy, thank you for doing this. It will be very interesting to see your method for achieving the wonderful results you always get.

Although I love to do plein air type sketches of mostly skies, here are a few more tips for my way of working from digital photographic references.

Once you identify a good subject, take several photographs. Some of these should be for the composition. A couple should be just of the sky with only a bit of the horizon showing for scale. A couple should be only of the land with no sky showing. These will generally have lighter shadows. Some photos should be closeups of separate buildings and unique textures. If possible take photographs of the scene at different times of day with different lighting conditions.

The best time for photographs with dramatic lighting are the golden hours. These are the hour after sunrise and the hour before sunset.

Using photo software to adjust them, I will generally print out and use about a dozen photos while doing a painting; one with lightened shadows, one with more saturated colours, one with desaturated colours for values, etc.

Again, Wendy, thank you for your generosity in doing this demonstration.

_________________________Wendell

Scarefishcrow
02-20-2008, 05:19 PM
Wendell, as usual, makes some good points about photo ref. If I could add a quick comment, with digital cameras you can generally set them to take a series of several photos at various exposures by holding the button down (commonly called Bracketing). The advantage is that by having over and underexposed images you see a greater dynamic range collectively than can be captured in a single exposure. Secondly, there is at least one, possibly more, image editor I have seen that allows you to take such a series (preferably from a tripod of with very steady hand) and combine them digitally and create what is called a High Dynamic Range (HDR) image by taking the good information from each photo and compositing it into a single image with a much broader dynamic range than is typically possible.

:music: :heart: :music:

friesin
02-20-2008, 05:21 PM
thank you so much !

Its very interesting, I have never done an underpainting for OP !!!!!

Great to see other artists work and to learn from them :wink:

sundiver
02-20-2008, 08:21 PM
I'm glad to see people joining in, and please share any tips or advice you happen to have, so more people will see the possibilities for landscapes with oil pastels.
Wendell, great photo tips; thanks very much! I'm really hoping you can grace us with an O.P. Classroom someday; your style is so different from mine and your paintings are amazing. I got quite addicted to plein air painting last summer. DH was in Fort McMoney:rolleyes: for the summer, DD was working at the Red and White in Hampshire, and I had time and a van. We can trade secret landscape spots- you might have to climb a few fences though!

Before I carry one with some progress pics, I want to share this thread on shadows from the Soft Pastels Forum:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477056
good reading

sundiver
02-20-2008, 08:27 PM
I don't have a colour printer, and never did get a print made for this photo, so I'm looking at the monitor for my information. Some say that's better than looking at a print because it's lit from behind.
Now the o.p.s. I'm afraid I can't be very methodical with which pastel went where, because the papers are off most of them and I just grab and smear. I'll take a picture when I have a bunch - I put the ones I'm working with in a plastic dish.
First the background, an approximation with cool blues and greens, a bit of bright green in the foreground tree .I scumbled blues and greens, rubbed them in a bit with the vinyl eraser, and scumbled some more on top of that. Then I used some light pink for the flowers (I think I'm best off going from light to dark with them). http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2008/6393-ng_o.p.1.JPG
here's a detail, showing the broken colour and the texture.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2008/6393-o.p.1_detail.JPG
You may wish to try crosshatching instead. That's a good way to use broken colour when you don't have a sanded surface, because it doesn't necessarily need as many layers.I used crosshatch when I did Pat's portrait Classroom - but that's not a landscape :D, so here's an old one from a WDE 3 years ago:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Apr-2005/6393-WDE_apr_1_beach_sky.jpg

See you tomorrow! Got anything to share yet? An underpainting maybe?

LJW
02-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Wendy, just to be clear, are the bluish lines showing on your closeup the brush strokes from applying the gel? Jane

sundiver
02-20-2008, 10:55 PM
Wendy, just to be clear, are the bluish lines showing on your closeup the brush strokes from applying the gel? Jane

yes

(Anybody watch the lunar eclipse tonight? Now there's a landscape!)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Feb-2008/6393-lunar_eclipse.jpg

tubbekans
02-20-2008, 11:35 PM
Yes, thanks to your post! Quite impressive!
I am going to try and do a landscrape with you in the classroom too Wendy. Thanks for the hosting classroom!
:clap:

Scarefishcrow
02-20-2008, 11:59 PM
I belive OP is a natural for Landscape, particularly if one works in a looser style. Since in Landscape you typically are not going for fine detail but blocks of harmonious colors that represent the major values of objects not particularly close, the expressive strokes you can get with OP along with the "jabbing" motions to deposit masses of color seem ideal for Landscapes.
(Ok, I think I just used all the terms I learned in the last few art books I read, but I really do see OP as a natural for Landscape).

Here is a link to John Elliot's site where he displays some of his Landscape work with OP (which is his principal medium as I understand it).

http://www.johnelliot.com/Landscapes.htm
:music: :heart: :music:

sundiver
02-21-2008, 05:51 AM
(Ok, I think I just used all the terms I learned in the last few art books I read, but I really do see OP as a natural for Landscape).
:

....but if you really want to sound like an arteeeeste, or someone who "knows' art, you have to fit the word "juxtapose" in there somewhere ( and lift your nose ever so slightly while saying it). :D

Thanks for the Elliot link, Bill. I had been trying to find his site since the other one stopped. he used to have a site where o.p. artists could list a bio and a few images, but the url has been transferring me back to the Oil Pastel Society the last while.

Pat Isaac
02-21-2008, 07:43 AM
The eclipse was a spectacular sight! That link that John Elliot had was dropped a while back as they really didn't have time to keep up with it.
I'd love to see that portrait sometime...

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-21-2008, 12:31 PM
....but if you really want to sound like an arteeeeste, or someone who "knows' art, you have to fit the word "juxtapose" in there somewhere ( and lift your nose ever so slightly while saying it). :D

Thanks for the Elliot link, Bill. I had been trying to find his site since the other one stopped. he used to have a site where o.p. artists could list a bio and a few images, but the url has been transferring me back to the Oil Pastel Society the last while.

Uhhh....I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I did use juxtaposed in a post about the pony, I think. BUT I DID NOT LIFT MY NOSE. I do some dignity!

I will be gone next week to Isla de Mujeres, but plan on taking your ref photo and maybe some of the brand spanking new AS Colorfix paper from my "Rainbow" pack and doing my interpretation. Thanks for doing a Landscape! They are among my favorites.

Perhaps the link you were using was to the Oil Pastel Association he started and maybe the OPS has "subsumed" ( hee hee) that function.:evil:

Bill:music: :heart: :music: :angel:

Peiwend
02-21-2008, 02:16 PM
Right now, Bill, I'm trying to think of a way to subsume the juxtaposition of snow and ice on my driveway. The look of it raised my nose a lot. What expression or impression does it convey vis a vis society today?

Have a great time on Isla de Mujeres!

__________________________Wendell

Scarefishcrow
02-21-2008, 02:25 PM
Actually Wendell, you need to remove the snow and sublimate the ice in order to reach a concrete conclusion that could lead us to a new paradigm!

BTW--24 below 0 F here this morning so you will get little sympathy with me. Will, however, email some sunshine from the Isla de Mujeras.

Bill

sundiver
02-21-2008, 08:48 PM
Thanks guys, we can always use a little comic relief!:lol:

Long day, 200 future Michaelangelos, no preps, drama auditions at noon, and a full moon:eek: , cue the theme from Twilight Zone...

But now I'm home and here is what I've got:
some warm colours for the middle-ground grasses; some peaches and ochres in with the pale greens, and some modelling on the flowers. (they look like cheerleader pompoms at the moment, gulp, but I'll let the o.p. set before further intervention)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2008/6393-ng_op_2.JPG
Here are the pastels I've used so far:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2008/6393-ops_used.JPG
They are mostly Holbeins and CDs, a couple of Senns, and several "custom colours" made by melting others together.

Pat Isaac
02-21-2008, 09:54 PM
This is looking good, Wendy.
Boy, do I remember those days.....what is a prep anyway??? Do you do the drama program also?

Pat

sundiver
02-21-2008, 10:18 PM
Thanks, Pat.
I prep is a preparation period, a "spare" . I get 3 a week. Academic teachers get 6. At university I took an extra minor in Theatre Arts but it was cut from the budget as a subject years ago, so the music teacher and I do it at lunch and after school. We did A Midsummer Night's Dream last term.

tubbekans
02-21-2008, 10:31 PM
Hey, how'd you get so far ahead? :lol:

Here is my underpainting. I did it in acrylic and then coated the paper with Golden acrylic ground for pastels. It came out quite a bit different from yours Wendy so that is perfect as I have an excuse for it not looking as good as yours when you get done. Underpainting failure, an unbeatable problem.. So, what now Doc? Do I just throw pastels at it until it starts looking good (wishful thinking I suppose). Did you start in a certain area Wendy or with a certain color? Any chance of some close ups to show us soon to be failures what your strokes/surface looks like? Ok, sorry , not meaning to lump all the rest of the class into my club there. Well, I got further than I was before I started. Yes, I am on my way. Where who knows, but on my way. :wave:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2008/32632-WC_OP_Land1_web.jpg

Herb
02-21-2008, 11:55 PM
Now that Paul has posted, I guess I can post, too. Wasn't sure about protocol. And didn't Wendy say something about needing comic relief?

I have never done any kind of underpainting so I have very little idea what's going on. I did this with Caran D'Arche Neocolor II water-soluable pastels on Arches Cold Pressed. Only had a starter set of 15 colors. Now what!?!?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Feb-2008/71766-022108_003b.jpg

sundiver
02-22-2008, 05:58 AM
Hey, some underpaintings! Great! They both look good. I think that as long as the white gets covered there's all kinds of leeway as to what colours you use on your underpainting. I find that getting the values somewhat accurate saves a lot of time and effort later.

Herb, will you be putting a clear sanded ground over the underpainting? I found Neocolor IIs a bit slick to cover with o.p.s but others have no problem. Suggestions for sanded grounds are in post #10.

My first steps after underpainting, including a closeup, are in post #17.
If I want darker darks I usually use a dark wine or dark warm brown under the greens, it seems to look more natural to me, and rub it into the paper so I can put greens and in this case blues over it and some of the under-part will show through.The over-layers I put on with a light touch so all the colours will show. The sanded ground and the rough way I put it on helps with that. The texture of the wc paper will help, too, like the texture of Canson. If you don't have much texture in the surface you could put the colour on in dashes or x's to keep the colour broken.

Of course you can also blend away to your heart's content- it's your painting!
But I'm using broken colour myself and if you haven't done that before you might like to experiment with that.
It's pretty hard to duplicate loose treatments but your own style will develop as you experiment. (An example of the difficulty of close copying is with the wall paintings at my school. The students paint reproductions of art masterpieces on our dungeon walls (the art room as usual is in a dark old basement). Most of them are fairly easy, like a colouring book, but they've been trying to put Monet's bridge on my door and have found those green blobs very difficult indeed to reproduce!) So go with it and have fun, see what happens.

ElleZee
02-22-2008, 06:44 AM
Hi Wendy! :wave: AWESOME Classroom! :clap: I am so happy you are taking us through your process. I haven't been on WC very much lately and almost missed your start here....but I made it and I've pulled up my chair and am taking notes!

Thank you for posting your palette of colours, with the underpainting I'm finding it a little harder to determine what is paint and what is op...but knowing which colours you're working with clears it right up.

sundiver
02-22-2008, 07:41 AM
, with the underpainting I'm finding it a little harder to determine what is paint and what is op...


I can see how that could be a problem. Here it is with the parts with no o.p. blocked out.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2008/6393-6393-ng_op_2_blockout.jpg

Pat Isaac
02-22-2008, 07:53 AM
:lol: :lol: I know what a prep is Wendy, I was trying to be funny as us art teachers never seemed to get any. Ambitious production.

Great under paintings here.

Pat

tubbekans
02-22-2008, 07:55 AM
Shoot, one of those teachers that wants us to read the book, I get it.
Ok, post 17 that's here somewhere. Yep, got it, scumble or cross hatch and work the colors up. Yo-k, I'll give it ago. Hmm, even a close-up in there already. Oops. I guess it does help to read it and not just look at the pretty pictures.

Thanks Wendy, I hope to get something done on it tonight. Oh, I see my underpainting picture is brighter on the monitor than it is in real life.

Hi Herb, looks like we are off to the races now! See you at recess! If the teacher isn't looking we can play marbles or something.

LJW
02-22-2008, 09:42 AM
I'm off to Ottawa today to see if I can get some Golden pumice gel - if so, I'll join in too. This is an interesting approach and I'd like to give it a try. Two good underpaintings displayed so far. Jane

sundiver
02-22-2008, 11:18 AM
:lol: :lol: I know what a prep is Wendy, I was trying to be funny as us art teachers never seemed to get any. Ambitious production.

Great under paintings here.

Pat

Lol, Pat, I wasn't sure; different places have different names for things. When I started at this school 10 years ago I had all 700 kids every week, once, and one prep a week. By the time I got a class again a week later I had forgotten their names and they had forgotten what I had taught them. Thank goodness for block scheduling.
Ahem: Look boys and girls- Paul and Herb have their underpaintings done! They can play with my box of Lego while they wait for the rest of you to catch up!
:D

Pat Isaac
02-22-2008, 11:59 AM
Sounds as if every place has trouble funding the arts....

Ahem: Look boys and girls- Paul and Herb have their underpaintings done! They can play with my box of Lego while they wait for the rest of you to catch up!
:lol: They are just trying to be teacher's pets.....:rolleyes:

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-22-2008, 01:00 PM
Lol, Pat, I wasn't sure; different places have different names for things. When I started at this school 10 years ago I had all 700 kids every week, once, and one prep a week. By the time I got a class again a week later I had forgotten their names and they had forgotten what I had taught them. Thank goodness for block scheduling.
Ahem: Look boys and girls- Paul and Herb have their underpaintings done! They can play with my box of Lego while they wait for the rest of you to catch up!
:D

First Teach -- I've done them preps too, ya know!

Second-- I'm still reading all the homework you assigned!!!!!!:mad:

Nobody said anything about homework before!!!!

Finally, I am trying to juxtapose various harmonious color schemes in my mind rather than simply follow the teacher's demonstration like a rote automaton. I'm torn between split complements, warm or cool triadic, or the ever popular analagous color harmony. (Note: nose lifting "ever so slightly at this point, since you can't see). Besides, how do you know we don't already have our underpaintings on.....I mean done?

:evil: and :p :p to Herb and Paul (we called the "brown nosers", Pat).

Besides, I have countless little yellow sticky notes from my wife about how I'm supposed to be packing for our trip rather than spending my time on the computer. How we new artists mus suffer for our work:crying: :crying: :crying: .

I'm taking my brand spanking new colorfix paper on "holiday" and plan to execute my Mustardpiece there! Is that Okey Dokey?? (Besides, this way it's like looking at someone else's paper before you answer.. Hey, look at what Herb and Leo put down for that question!!!!:rolleyes: )

:music: :heart: :music:
"I just can't help it Bill"

Scarefishcrow
02-22-2008, 02:05 PM
Oops. That's Herb and Paul, not Herb and Leo. Sorry, Paul... head stuck in Picasso thread.:o

Herb
02-22-2008, 02:18 PM
Well, since the other kids are already pickin' on me :crying: , I decided I didn't have much to lose by going for extra credit with a do-over. :D

I wasn't at all happy with my first underpainting, and the tooth of the Arches cold-pressed was going to be a major problem. So...

I turned the paper over to the smooth side and had another go at it. Here's the Neocolor II dry and wet. My, aren't those Neocolors intense? :eek: This may end up being a psychodelic landscape.

Hey, Paul. Don't let the underachievers get us down. :evil:

Edit: Uh-Oh! I believe it's customary to actually attach the referenced drawings...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2008/71766-022208_005_crb.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2008/71766-022208_010_crb.jpg

Pat Isaac
02-22-2008, 04:14 PM
This is looking good, Herb and it is not too bright as the OPs will tone it down. So, what did you build with the legos......:lol:

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-22-2008, 06:05 PM
UNDERACHIEVERS!!!!! I represent that! If you go to the following thread you will see that this underacheiver has been making a demonstration to help Saint Patricia, our patron Saint, get the Image Actual Resizer Tool I left the link for work on her computer.

So I have NOT been goofing off!

BTW, guys, your stuff is looking really good. :clap: :clap:

Check this out!!!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=479480

:music: :heart: :music:

LJW
02-22-2008, 07:39 PM
Herb, both versions look good to me.

Wendy, I was thinking of what to use for the underpainting. I'm surprised that when you applied the gel to the gouache it didn't lift. Wouldn't that happen with watercolour? Or is the gel not wet enough. I bought what I think is the right thing today, but it doesn't say clear on it and it looks greyish.

Jane

sundiver
02-22-2008, 09:08 PM
What's it called, Jane? The Golden stuff looks greyish, dries clear, maybe a bit frosty-looking.. It's not so runny that it lifts wc or gouache. Maybe if you rubbed and smeared hard it might, but I haven't particularly used a delicate touch and never have had a problem. I don't think the Liquitex , which is runnier, lifts it either. You could use watered-down acrylic if you are concerned about it.

sundiver
02-22-2008, 09:36 PM
The rocks; don't want them too contrasty, foreground tree, and more modelling on the flowers, plus some foliage there. Also, the grass needs some blue, where it reflects the sky.
I think I see a tree trunk or two behind the flowers but will probably ignore it.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Feb-2008/6393-op_ng_3_resized.JPG

tubbekans
02-23-2008, 12:00 AM
That looks real good Wendy! I meant to get lots done tonight, but got to playing with the legos and the time just flew. I did get to trying the scumbling out on a test piece of paper with the Golden pastel ground on it. My test came out looking exactly not like yours! Well, more trying tomorrow. I may even get brave enough to tackle the scumbling on the actual underpainting.

Geez Herb, you already did another underpainting! I may end up doing another too if my attempts tommorow don't work out any better..

Bill, have fun on the beach! Guess we didn't quite rate with the teacher as she gave us homework and you get to go beach hopping!

Oh, Wendy, in my experiment I ended up with something resembling mud in parts. Lots of thick OP and not so much on the pretty side either. It actually looks quite thick and there isn't much grain/tooth left to the ground. Adding more layers seems to be a problem too. Am I doing something less than perfect or is this just right? duh.

Scarefishcrow
02-23-2008, 12:51 AM
:D
Well, having been raised a true southern gentleman, I felt obliged to defend my honor (underachiever, indeed) by begging my wife to give me an hour away from packing to at least get something on paper before I leave. I kinda skipped the underpainting part and using dark green Colourfix 9 x 12 paper and trying out my new Erengi ArtAspirers this is what I was able to come up with (I know it's crude, and I know the trees turned a little blue, but my grace period was running out and it wasn't the color I thought it would be). Seriously, Wendy, I tried not to follow line for line but more or less the general outline of your block in. I think I'll need my few days in the sun to figure out where to go next. I may have my pride, but it doesn't preclude taking good advice and asking for suggestions of how to proceed from here.

So everyone sit down. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly before paging down:


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2008/108067-Block_In.jpg

Okay, there it is. Just help me make it turn out better than my pony did! These are moderately frim so my softer Neopastels and Semns should overlay nicely, if I can figure out what should go where!

This was fun doing and funky as it is it came out better than I thought it would.

:wave: :music: :heart: :music:
Bill (Overachiever, if anything)!
Actually, underachiever is kind of a compliment since it means I have potential I'm not tapping! WOW, and epiphany!:rolleyes:

Pat Isaac
02-23-2008, 08:53 AM
Jane, I have the Liquitex clear gesso and it doesn't lift the watercolor. As long as the watercolor is dry, it shouldn't lift.
Nice reprieve from packing, Bill. Looking forward to your finish when you return.

Pat

LJW
02-23-2008, 10:43 AM
Wendy, it's called Golden Fine Pumice Gel, so I expect it's the right thing. But when I got home and looked at it I realized it didn't say Clear like the Colourfix does, and it wasn't clear when I looked at it. I just didn't want to paint over my underpainting (which I'm going to work on today) and discover I couldn't see it!

Pat, thanks for the info. I'll probably use watered-down Golden fluid acrylics, rather than my watercolours which I'm trying to sell.

Bill, you've got a good start on the image. Enjoy your trip - get packing!

Jane

sundiver
02-23-2008, 03:05 PM
Jane, that's exactly what I used.
Using acrylics as a pastel underpainting can cause a disappointing slickness, and that's where putting the sanded ground afterward comes in handy. Recently (I think it was the portrait classroom one) I accidently started putting regular Liquitex gesso over my underpainting by mistake! As soon as I realized it I ran to the sink and scrubbed it off, and was glad it was a watercolour block and still stretched.

Bill, looks good! I'd check the values next, to make sure you have some nice dark darks. While you're sitting in the sun, look at the play of sun and shadow around you. Not too harsh for homework I think: mainly a case of keeping your eyes open some of the time and squinting at the values and noting the reflected colours in the shadows, between sips of some refreshing cold beverage and sighs of contentment!




Oh, Wendy, in my experiment I ended up with something resembling mud in parts. Lots of thick OP and not so much on the pretty side either. It actually looks quite thick and there isn't much grain/tooth left to the ground. Adding more layers seems to be a problem too. Am I doing something less than perfect or is this just right? duh.

"They" say that mud usually happens when we mix colours of different values, and that as long as the values are right you won't get mud. So check that.
It happened to me last night. I tend to be working on two or more projects at a time, having a go at one while the o.p. on the other sets up, and was doing a light building that is in shadow, and where the photo made the colour somewhat indecipherable. The result was putrid. I was able to scrape it off but I could (and often have) done a spot-clean with turps on a brush and paper towel to wipe it off and do that part over.
The other thing is that when scumbling I use a light touch, just sort of dancing the o.p. across the paper. Even with an underpainting I usually rub the first couple of scumbled colours into the tooth so I can scumble over it easily. It's like the oil-painting Fat-Over-Lean credo and the thick applications are only at the last if at all.

I hope I'm making sense!

Scarefishcrow
02-23-2008, 03:34 PM
Wendy--You are making perfect sense. I know I harp on this from time to time, but Paul's problems is where I see the utility of the variation in how firm and moist various brands are. In fact, the ArtInspirers turned out to be a little creamier than the Specialists which are pretty dry and firm. (They aren't as creamy as NeoPastels, though). If I hadn't been in a rush I probably would have switched to initial block in with Specialists, leaving a drier undercoad that doesn't smear as much. I usually try to work from firm, drier brands up through the softer, creamier brands and it can sometimes make overlaying easier (especially early on). Towards the end is particularly where the experience you have with a light hand shows through. This is really no different that what I encountered in an Oil Painting course where you are painting wet over wet.

One question, I'm sure has been answered somewhere before, I have has to do with color "schemes". I know I made some joking remarks about them but in all seriousness when I read books on color theory they always emphasis various "harmonious" schemes (tridaic, complementary, split complement, etc.). I haven't really seen people refer to that much in the posts I've read. Do you have some color "scheme" in mind as you are working or is it an "internalized" sense of "this is the color I'm going to use next". How do you make your decisions on what color to grab?

I noticed your plastic tray was a fairly ecclectic assortment of OPs and lots of them. If I took those and laid them out would some "scheme" be apparent to me?

Thanks for your time and generosity.

Bill

sundiver
02-23-2008, 04:45 PM
I noticed your plastic tray was a fairly ecclectic assortment of OPs and lots of them. If I took those and laid them out would some "scheme" be apparent to me?
Thanks for your time and generosity.
Bill

Thanks, Bill. The scheme is pretty much split complementary, with reds , blue-greens and yellow greens. I am more likely to focus consciously on a colour scheme if I am setting up a still-life, and in a landscape mainly use it for trouble-shooting, or making colour decisions midway through. I'm not recommending this, it's just my own impatience and tendency to respond emotionally to a landscape and dive into it, and I'm pleased when I remember to check the value patterns !

sundiver
02-23-2008, 05:07 PM
Ok, now the surface is completely covered, and I need to let it sit for a while so I can decide what else it needs. I've cropped it to what it would look like with an 8x10 mat.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2008/6393-op_4.jpg
Here's a couple of details.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2008/6393-op_4_detail_fclpt.JPG
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Feb-2008/6393-op4_det_secndry.JPG
Already I see that the dark foliage behind the lower flowers is too contrasty: I want it to be a focal point but not to hit you in the eyes.The flowers also are too evenly coloured: some of them would be in shadow.
Grass foreground left is distracting. Funny how these things show up so clearly on the monitor!
And it's time to check to see if any more edges should be lost.

edit- the road is not as red IRL as it looks here; it's more of a peach or orangy Tuscan pink.

Scarefishcrow
02-23-2008, 05:24 PM
Thank you Wendy-- I'm glad to hear that someone more experienced than I can get impatient and caught up in the excitement. I think the trick is to think about color enough to internalize it to an almost subconcious process, which obviously takes a lot of experience such as you have. BTW, I do spend a lot of time squinting and trying to see values. Values into color is always harder for me. I try to make color charts of my OPs and then scan them and convert to grey scale to get an idea as to how colors translate into values. Like the ArtAspirers I got recently in the attached images.

Bill

sundiver
02-23-2008, 06:43 PM
OOO, look at thos nice new pastels! Pretty colours!
Just a caution about scanning: I did a comparison several years ago when teaching about values to my grade eights. I scanned my colour chart (it was poster paint), photocopied it, and photographed it. All three results were different. The photocopier made the reds darker, the scanner some other colour- I think it was blue-, and the photo seemed accurate when greyscaled.

Scarefishcrow
02-23-2008, 06:49 PM
Actually, these were photographs of the actual pastels to create a color chart. In fact, I also shot them with macro in groups of about 5 with the label showing name, ##, pigment CI names, and Lightfast ratings. That way as I use them and the labels disappear I have all the data. Actually, I hope to go one step further and actually do swatches of each on paper, photo and attach to the pics of the pastels themselves.

Bill

LJW
02-23-2008, 08:20 PM
Wendy, great close-ups - what an interesting surface you've created. There's a wonderful sense of sunlight developing in the painting. Jane

Herb
02-23-2008, 09:57 PM
Wendy, you make it look so effortless. I appreciate the close-ups. I didn't realize how much texture your surface had before.

LJW
02-23-2008, 10:16 PM
Just a note. I applied the gel with a nylon brush the first time and it went on too smoothly. I have just applied a second coat with a bristle brush and I think that's going to leave noticeable ridges when it dries. Jane

tubbekans
02-24-2008, 03:15 AM
OK teach, I finally got something done. I took your advice and started working with a lighter touch on the laydown of the colors. That helped a lot. It took me a while to cover most fo the blue/purple underpainting, but I am getting there on that. The colors a little too dark/intense in this pic, it is really bit duller/lighter IRL. Darned if it doesn't look a lot better on the screen at a smaller size than IRL too. I am avoiding the cleomes (flowers) for now until I can get a little further on the overall values and such. I drew a grid on the underpainting based on your ref pic, thanks for that, big help there. Oh, I am using Cry-Pas Specialist so far with just a little Expressionist thrown in. It seems the Expressionist are softer than the Specialist, which are more expensive. I figure at some point I will switch to the Senneliers, not sure just when thoufh.

Now, I gotta ask. How do you get those little tiny fines lines I see in your close-up Wendy? Yours is looking great by the way. Would you like to trade? :evil: :wink2:

Bill, yours is coming along fine I think. You may have to tie your pony up so it won't eat your pretty flowers!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Feb-2008/32632-OPFeb08_rev2.jpgg

LJW
02-24-2008, 01:05 PM
Wendy, when you 'scumbled' on the OPs, did you use a circular motion? I was using straight strokes crosswise to the gel lines and it doesn't look right. Also when you applied the Gel, did you use diagonal strokes or did you vary the pattern?

Paul, yours is really coming along. The grasses look great. Jane

sundiver
02-24-2008, 02:22 PM
Just a note. I applied the gel with a nylon brush the first time and it went on too smoothly. I have just applied a second coat with a bristle brush and I think that's going to leave noticeable ridges when it dries. Jane

So now you know how to make it smooth when you want it that way, as for paintings with more details that a rouch texture would hinder. I tried using a pallette knife once and it pushed the pumice in so there was no tooth at all. I tried a foam roller on the other one I just started, and the texture is like Sennellier La Carte. Lots of possibilities. When I want the evenest surface I use the Liquitex, because it's runnier and goes on more smoothly.


OK teach, I finally got something done. I took your advice and started working with a lighter touch on the laydown of the colors. That helped a lot.
It took me a while to cover most fo the blue/purple underpainting, but I am getting there on that.

Now, I gotta ask. How do you get those little tiny fines lines I see in your close-up Wendy?

Starting to come together, Paul! Terrific grasses. You can rub the darks into the tooth with whatever you use to blend, a torchon or an eraser like I use. That'll fill in the holes. If your underpainted darks are good and dark to begin with it makes the job esier.

Those tiny lines are caused by the ridges in the pumice gel. I intentionally put it on so the brush marks would be a part of the overall look, since there isn't a lot of detail in the image, to create an interesting texture.

Wendy, when you 'scumbled' on the OPs, did you use a circular motion? I was using straight strokes crosswise to the gel lines and it doesn't look right. Also when you applied the Gel, did you use diagonal strokes or did you vary the pattern?
Jane

Applying the gel was pretty much random. I tried to vary the direction, sweeping the brush around. That was fun.;) My scumbling is mostly diagonal I think. If it looks too regular I go at it with one of the erasers, not blending heavily but breaking up the stroke.
There's a fair amound of accidental effect in this process with the gel texture. If I did this image again it might look quite different. It's nice in areas with little detail, can be a pain if you are trying to get details. Some soft pastelists do this with the gel, too; you'll see it in Tom Christopher's paintings, for example.


My favorite art critiquer is home for spring break, and we have been hemming and hawing over the placement of the flowers. I need to change something, not sure what yet.

Pat Isaac
02-24-2008, 03:04 PM
This is coming along just great, Paul. Good texture.

Pat

Herb
02-24-2008, 05:29 PM
Do you think it is too late for me to drop this class without receiving an "incomplete" grade? It is? I was afraid of that. :rolleyes:

Well, not following directions has caused me fits. Here's where I stopped wasting my expensive crayons.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Feb-2008/71766-022408_002_crc.jpg

OK. I didn't think I would get away with that. :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Feb-2008/71766-022408_002_crb.jpg

As you can see, I got a bit ham-fisted. As Wendy cautioned, I had some trouble covering the Neocolor II with no pumice gel applied, not to mention the mis-match of the garish colors I used for the underpainting and the oil pastels I have. The more oil pastel I applied the worse it seemed to get. Believe it or not, the oil from the pastel (I assume) buckled the 140 lb water color paper. :eek:

Although I didn't have the outcome I hoped for, I did learn a great deal!

Wendy, your painting is gorgeous. I especially like the broken color and sense of sunshine.

Thanks again for conducting the classroom. I'm looking forward to seeing your finish and everyone else's work as well.

Cheers,

Herb

sundiver
02-24-2008, 07:52 PM
Believe it or not, the oil from the pastel (I assume) buckled the 140 lb water color paper. :eek:
Although I didn't have the outcome I hoped for, I did learn a great deal!
Cheers,
Herb

Learning is the whole point.:) That's what they (apparently) say at workshops, not that I've ever been to one: when you try someone else's approach focus on the learning rather than the result.

Having said that, I think your painting turned out rather well. My path is on Prince Edward Island, so is quite pink, because that's what colour the dirt is (reds and pinks, all over the island). I used various values of orange. But your dirt could be any number of colours and still read right.
You might put a bit of sky-blue in the shadows because if something outside is in the open and also in shadow, it will likely reflect some blue from the sky. Some of the foliage and grass will do that, too. I never like my grass until I've remembered to put blue (and usually some peachy colours, too) into it.

Thanks for joining in- I hope you enjoyed it!

tubbekans
02-24-2008, 10:03 PM
Herb your tree leaves top left look real good. Your grass is looking like a winner too with maybe a little fine tuning. Are you going to keep going? It sure looks well on its way to me.

Ok, thanks for the encouragement Pat, Jane, and Wendy!

Here is an update after a round with my new Car-an-dash Neo-pastels. I made a trip to the Pearl Paint today and picked up some open stock. They were out of most reds and many blues, but I got some greens and browns and grays to use.

I did do some blending with a pencil eraser Wendy but will probably do more after a while. The large ominous cloud approaching from the top left corner has me scared a little but I am going to try and tackle it soon.

I worked on the rocks a bit and that got me thinking about the flowers. I saw where you had put a pink flower shape on early in the painting. You said something about working dark to light? Well, here is my plan based on what I think you meant. I got some pink flowery type shapes going, more blobs than anything right now. So if I put some darker color over those blobs I might be able to scrape back to the pink and get a more refined shape? Well my pink blobs are Cray-pas Specialist and I plan to overlay them with either Neopastels or Senneliers. Then scrape back with a fine tool point of some sort. Anyway, lots more to do it seems, including tuning my own grass down some.

That Bill sure skated out at the right time didn't he?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/24-Feb-2008/32632-P2244924_rev3_24feb08.jpg

LJW
02-24-2008, 11:16 PM
Herb, quite a lovely impressionistic interpretation. The gel makes a great deal of difference in appearance and application, so yours can't look the same.

Paul, coming along really well. The rocks are wonderful and your grass is great.

Jane

Pat Isaac
02-25-2008, 04:43 PM
Really coming along nicely, Paul. I certainly don't think you should stop the painting here, Herb, keep going.
Here is my underpainting watercolor with 2 coats of clear acrylic gesso. This is probably one of my only landscapes....:eek:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Feb-2008/35760-land_under.JPG

Pat

LJW
02-25-2008, 08:32 PM
Good underpainting, Pat. I think your boats and your apple tree count as landscapes even if they're closeups. Jane

sundiver
02-25-2008, 09:00 PM
Nicely done, Paul! It certainly has the feeling of a sun-dappled path, very inviting.
What I said was "light to dark" not "light over dark", which is difficult with oil pastels because they aren't opaque enough or else look pasty. So I agree scraping back is the way to go. Sgraffito isn't so easy on a sanded surface but should work fine the way you describe on yours.

Your underpainting looks good, Pat. I agree with Jane, some of your paintings qualify as landscapes; the mailboxes one comes to mind (I've always loved that one).

I think I'm finished, more or less. Now the challenge is to get an accurate photo of it.

LJW
02-25-2008, 09:10 PM
Here's my version of the image. Either I'm gonna fail or I'll get a C for creativity. I couldn't get the area of blue/green behind the cleomes to work as a large mass, so I created the single tree and carried the hillside over into that area. It changes the focal point, I think, to the central treeline, so it sort of isn't what Wendy had in mind at all. Oh well. Still, it was interesting to work with the texture of the gel medium and to soften edges more than I usually do, trying to get that lovely softness that Wendy achieves. 9" X 12" CP watercolour paper with Golden Fine Pumice gel over my ugly :eek: underpainting. Holbein Artist, Caran d'Ache (which work well over the gel), and a few Senns. which I found are a bit too soft for this technique. Jane

tubbekans
02-25-2008, 09:16 PM
Hi Pat, welcome o the landscape painters paradise! I had tooth on my underpainting, but I didn't have brush marks really. It was all kind of the same with no ridges. Flat but toothy. I am thinking I should have gone for the brush marks like Wendy has. But anyway, it seems to be working out ok regardless.

Hi Wendy, thanks, guess I'll try the sgraifitto then. I did some blending and got rid of some of those holes. I think they were messing up my pictures a bit, fooling the camera some. well, back t it then. See you all later!

tubbekans
02-25-2008, 09:19 PM
Double post, seems the gremlins are playing with the WC system a bot.

Herb
02-25-2008, 11:15 PM
That's a beautiful job, Jane!

Paul, your's is coming along handsomely, as well. I think sgraffito is one of the neatest things you can do with oil pastels.

tubbekans
02-26-2008, 12:22 AM
Wow Jane, I like your changes. Looks really neat with your revised approach to the foilage and background. I didn't even see your post last time I visited. But there you are now! Great job! The background changes you made work so well with the composition. Your trees are much more interesting than just a large glump of foilage like I have going.

Thanks Herb, I think it is coming along to a point at least. I am not sure how much more I will be able to do on it at this point. My flowers came out a little unusual, but they are a learning experience so that's fine. Sassnfrassin flowers. grrr grumble grrr. :)

My storm cloud from the top left is a little less bad tonight. I kind of scrumbled some darks and light greens and yellows over it a bit randomly. Then placed the light green stick on the surfce and kind of wiggled it here and there lightly. Saasin-frassin flowers. Touched up the rocks and the grasses a a tad also. grrr flowers. For some reason I put Sennelier lavendar over the pink flower blobs and then tried to scratch thru to the underlying pink layer with a tortillion. I don't hate how the sassinfrassin flower came out really, they are just a little less pink than I was planning. flowers grr. It was an intersting thing to try though. I can see it has possibilities for sure.

By the way Herb, it seemed like your image was quite a bit smaller than the paper size?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Feb-2008/32632-WC_Lscape_rev4_25feb08.jpg

Pat Isaac
02-26-2008, 07:40 AM
Beautiful job, Jane. I like the changes you made and the painting has such a sunny feel, making me wish for spring.
Great job, Paul I like the purple flowers and the sunlit path.
I tend to think of my boats and mailboxes as still life.
I have to get some OP on mine this week...:eek:

Pat

LJW
02-26-2008, 09:45 AM
Thanks Herb, Paul and Pat.

Paul, I like the way your sunlit path continues on through the further trees, drawing us into the scene. Your flowers look like cleomes, even if they are more purple than you would have liked. I tried using sgraffito on a sanded paper and I have to agree with Wendy that it doesn't work very well on that type of surface. The people who have the most success with it use a smooth surface. Your tree mass on the left looks convincing now. Great job. Jane

Scarefishcrow
02-26-2008, 06:32 PM
This is no fair!! I'm stuck in this beach infested paradise while everyone else gets to work in their lovely studies and get the paintings done.

Wendy, it is beautiful. Paul, I like purple flowers and you did a great job. Herb, you are always your worst critic, looks good. Pat, I skipped over the underpainting.

Darn it, everyone's gonna leave me in the dust while I'm stuck down here in palm trees, sun and sand. Life just isn't fair sometimes, right???



:clap: :evil: :cool: :angel: :wave:
Bill

Pat Isaac
02-26-2008, 06:44 PM
awww....should we get out the violins, Bill....:lol: Plenty of time to catch up...as I'll be very slow..

Pat

Herb
02-26-2008, 07:50 PM
Oh, Bill. Stop! Stop! You're breaking my heart. :crying: (:lol: ) Think of it this way: someone has to keep the tourist industry afloat. You will just have to square your shoulders (don't forget the sunscreen) and bear the burden for us all.

sundiver
02-26-2008, 09:11 PM
Jane, this is really lovely! And trying out the steps I use but with your own interpretation is most definitely what I "had in mind". You have a sunny hillside instead of a sun-dappled grove... beautiful, soft and inviting. I love the strokework in the trees.
Your observation about the Senns was interesting, as I almost always find them too gooey to use. Maybe I just need a different surface when I use them...

Paul, thanks for the new swear word! Very satisfying, wish I had known it when I was working at my sassinfrassin flowers. And if mine can be cheerleader pompoms, why can't yours be violet? I like them, and the shady lane, and the secondary focal point works very well.
Good one!

sundiver
02-26-2008, 09:23 PM
Aw, poor Bill.:rolleyes: All that sunshine getting to you? We're supposed to have a snowstorm tomorrow, followed by freezing rain- shall I send you some to make you feel better?

I'm going to upload this even though it's inaccurate because it's pretty much finished. I may have to wait until the weekend, when I'm home in the daytime to get the colours right. Road looks too red, background looks too blue, flowers too grey... arghh, I've had a sassinfrassin time trying to photograph it.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Feb-2008/6393-IMG_6051.JPG

Scarefishcrow
02-26-2008, 10:40 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I had a feeling I was not going to get much sympathy from y'all! In fact, I should be glad you aren't saying "That sassafrassin condo has Internet? Just when we thougth we could have a week's peace and quiet".

I'll accept the barbs since I was a wee bit sarcastic, but ya know, it would really be fun to have all my disembodied friends with me down here all stretchin and sketchin together in the sun. If I could bottle it I send you each a bottle of this beauty to save for a particularly rainy day.

Besides, truth is I;m not sure where to go from where I left off!!!

:wave: :wave: :music: :heart: :music:
Bill

tubbekans
02-26-2008, 11:24 PM
Thanks all, for the comments. :wave:

You are welcome on the swear word Wendy! Glad you like it. Your cleomes look great to me. I like the look of your painting, even if you think the colors are slightly off. I have had quite a time getting my pics to match my painting also. I moved it to another room with better light and set it up on a large sheet of white paper last time, seemed to help. I like the soft glow effect in your painting, it is quite nice!

Thanks Jane, I will experiment with the scratching more. It did kind of work, I just need to do it more to learn how to use it I think. I tried scraping a little color off my Senns with my tortillion and placing it on the flowers today. Got a little more red in them now. I do seem to see a trend in the other paintings towards not having the dark storm cloud hovering over the top left of the painting like in mine. I may have to re-work that area somehow.

Hope you are having a good time Bill! Don't forget to take some pics for us poor leave-behinds to savor. I may still be working on mine when you return. Are you going to have a chance to do any sketching down there on the beach?

Scarefishcrow
02-27-2008, 01:01 AM
Well, Paul, if you check out the weekly sketch thread you will see my (in its most generous interpretation of this word) "sketches" I did today. But I did promise our Patron Saint Patricia that I would sketch while down here and post them no matter what, so they are there for you to see in their "empty glory". To make the click worthwhile I did include a pic of the beach from the balcony!!

Back next week.

Bill

LJW
02-27-2008, 10:11 AM
Lovely painting, Wendy. You made the background trees work really well. Wonderful sense of sunlight and softness overall. Jane

Pat Isaac
02-27-2008, 03:25 PM
Lovely, Wendy and there is that wonderful sense of atmosphere. Thanks so much for doing this.
I'll definitely be working on mine when you return from your infested paradise...:evil: Hmmm, must have lost my halo...:lol:

Pat

Herb
02-27-2008, 07:59 PM
Gorgeous, Wendy. I really like the sense of sunlight and the way you've described the grasses, near and far, are spot on. Well, actually I like everything about it. :D The broken color appeals to me. I'll definetly be referring to your lesson the next time I have a go at a landscape.

Hope you share your finished piece with us, Paul. Yes, my paper was 12" x 16" and I did the drawing at 9" x 12".

Come on, Pat. Let's see some progress. :)

Scarefishcrow
02-27-2008, 10:58 PM
Pat----Was that little devil for me???? And after I have canonized you (the saint type not the ones to sink the boat, BTW). Actually, get yours done so I'll have everybody's to copy off of. More places to get ideas of how to finish.

Course, I will have to take a few days and rest up from the strain of having to live a week with that noisy surf right outside your window all night long. My how I envy you, Pat, with all this time in your cozy studio. I should be so lucky. And BTW, saints don't stick the tongues out at their followers! I'll let it go this time, but you go get that halo and put it back on or I'll keep posting those horrid sketches of mine!!!!!


:angel: :cool: :cool: :D
:music: :heart: :music:

tubbekans
02-28-2008, 01:23 AM
I checked out the sketches Bill, they are fine, and lovely pics too!

Scarefishcrow
02-28-2008, 04:16 PM
:) Thanks Paul!

Pat Isaac
02-28-2008, 04:34 PM
I'm still playing the violin, Bill......:music: :lol:

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-28-2008, 05:23 PM
I'm still playing the violin, Bill......:music: :lol:

Pat

Pat, you are sooooooooo talented. You play BOTH violin AND flute???? Not even the same instrument families, a string and a woodwind. I am impressed!!!!:rolleyes: ;) :D :wave:

Pat Isaac
02-28-2008, 05:27 PM
The violin is only for place where I feel it is needed....:lol:

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-28-2008, 05:57 PM
Touche. I have to admit I deserved that as I have been a bit of a wisecracker and smart alec ((sp.)) on my "holiday". But think of it this way, even in a place this beautiful and alluring I can't resist talking to all my newfound friends. That must say something about how nice a place to visit the OP forum is, doesn't it??

Without wisecracks.. Be well and prosper..

Bill

Pat Isaac
02-28-2008, 06:04 PM
Heehee...it's a great place and continue to enjoy your paradise.

Pat

lisasb
02-28-2008, 10:39 PM
Hi, OP masters!

I'm a bit of newbie to OPs (my "main" medium is oil, and I'm a refugee from dry pastels -- they make me cough).

I loved this landscape thread, such beautiful work, it's really inspiring, so I thought I'd try my hand.

I hope it's not too late to post my effort; I'm not terribly happy with it -- much too heavy-handed so I lost the texture -- but what a great learning experience! Adding a lot of texture to the support got me so excited, I tried another landscape. I like this one better -- I used hardboard and three coats of clear gesso put on with a bristle brush (and as light a touch as I could manage).

I'm getting so hooked on OPs, I'm completely neglecting my "real" work!

Loving this thread :clap: ! Well, let's hope the upload works...

Lisa.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2008/40069-cleomessmall.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2008/40069-redtreesmall.jpg

tubbekans
02-28-2008, 11:18 PM
Wow Lisa, have you been peeking in the window while we were all studying hard in class? :thumbsup: Great stuff, I like how your path painting looks. The diagonal flavor lines is a nice accent for the piece, makes it feel very active for a landscape. Pretty cool effect.

Great job on the 2nd one two, the reflections are neato cool. See I got to say neato cool before any of the rest of you jokers. Hah hah! Really it is very nice. And you aren't a joker, but these other people, they know who they are. Bill! Pat! :)

Scarefishcrow
02-29-2008, 12:16 AM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Lisa, you may be a newbie to OP, but you certainly are no newbie to landscape. Two excellent works. Love the vivid colors.'''

Look forward to seeing more of your work in the OP forum. Welcome. Looks like many of us could learn a thing or two from you.

Great job.

:clap: :clap:

From the beaches of Isla Mujeres

Bill

Pat Isaac
02-29-2008, 07:33 AM
Welcome to the OP forum, Lisa and what a great start! Nice works and I like the color in the second piece and the sand along the shore. Lovely sunlit path in the first one.
What kind of OPS did you use/

Pat

LJW
02-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Lisa, welcome to the OP Forum. You've done a lovely classroom landscape - the diagonal strokes add liveliness to the scene and there's a great sense of sunlight. Your fall scene is very colourful and the water looks great. Jane

lisasb
02-29-2008, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome, gang, I think I like it here :) Sorry about the giant images, I'll try to figure out how to thumbnail them next time.

I use mostly Senneliers, but I have a handful of Holbeins and I really like 'em. My birthday's coming up, so I asked for the biggest set we can afford. I'm curious about the other brands, though, like the Caran D'Ache Neos -- do they lay down like OP, or are they more waxy like a crayon?

I have one technique I haven't seen mentioned in this forum, though I'm sure some of you have tried it. When I need fine detail, another way I get it is with a Pitt brush pen -- the ink seems to act as a solvent and goes through thin layers of OP. I used pen for the edges of the bridge and the diving platform on the red tree piece. I don't know -- is that cheating?

Can't wait to see what happens next on this thread and this forum...will Bill return from his exile in Mexico? Stay tuned...

Seriously, thanks everyone,
Lisa.

Scarefishcrow
02-29-2008, 04:38 PM
Lisa==
Unfortunately, Bill's sentence to spend a week in a sundrenched paradise with the frustration of soooooooo... much beauty and sooooo.....little time is comming to an end this weekend. I truly wish my many new friends could have been here because it is awesome. I know everyone gets tired of hearing me say this but as a newbie that made his first timit post here less than a month ago, the welcome you received is typicall for anyone the come to visit. Once you have been here, you may laeve but you will find yourself coming back. There may be forums as friendly, but there cannot be a forum friendlier. And the exciting thing about OP is exenmplified by what you just posted. A new way of doing something. The medium has is like a Neotripical rainforest, there is so much that has never been explored and each day potentially brinds a new technique to the forefront.

IMHO, people get too hung up on what is or isn't "cheating" (the first thread I ever started was really about that question). Is spraying wokable fixative on dry pastel cheating? In fact it is common practice for some people to use solvents to modify of apply OP. The pen you descibde is acting in the same way. Pat, e.g., often uses Walnut hollow Oil pencils for detail.

My personal opinion on the other brands can be found here:
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6420844

You might want to check out the other comments in the thread and also Jane's excellent and concise overview of "Getting Started with OP"
and its thread: the post is here
http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5946193

With Caran d'Ache make sure you realize the difference among their NeoPastel (OP), NeoColorII (Water Soluble wax crayon) and NeoColorI (Non Water soluble wax crayon).

Personally, I really like the NeoPastels finding them firmer than Senns and Holbein, but creamy in application. They are small diameter round sticks and I like to sharpen then to a point for line, fine strokes. Everyone has their own personal favorites among the artist grade OP's.

I'm starting to babble so it is time to move over to the Oil Gusher where babbling is often encouraged. Really love your autumn colors, my favorite season in Wisconsin, and love its bright colors. One thing abour Meixco is they love so many brilliant colors!

Hope you will share more of your work with us and let us learn from you! Many of us need all the help we can get!!!!

Welcome:

Bill:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
02-29-2008, 04:45 PM
No cheating there, Lisa. Many of us use different tools and media for detail. Thanks for your tip and we'll add it to the list. Caran D'ache is one of the professional brands and while creamy a little harder than Senns or Holbeins. They have some nice neutral darks.
Bill in exile.....hmmmm...not quite how I thought of it..:lol:
Here is my next stage to the landscape. I find this technique of scumbling very interesting and I think I sort of like it for getting the color down.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/29-Feb-2008/35760-land1.JPG

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-29-2008, 06:07 PM
Pat,
Lovely so far. BTW, ever get your catalog and EGPastels? I'm hoping I have some waiting with my big box of Holbeins when I get home to ease the pain of having to give up my "exile".

Bill

sundiver
02-29-2008, 06:39 PM
Welcome, Lisa! I'm glad you enjoyed the thread and decided to post. I don't think it's ever too late.:)
I like both of your paintings and can see the soft pastel influence in your work. I'm another refugee from the dust of softies.
I'm interested in what you say about the Pitt brush pens. I don't know what they are, but it's hard to imagine that the oil pastel doesn't gum it up somehow. Tell me more!

Pat, yours is coming along nicely. I see some nice textures from the sanded ground already.

LJW
02-29-2008, 08:08 PM
Pat, nice work with the scumbling so far. Jane

lisasb
02-29-2008, 08:10 PM
[QUOTE=sundiver]Welcome, Lisa! I'm glad you enjoyed the thread and decided to post. I don't think it's ever too late.:)
I like both of your paintings and can see the soft pastel influence in your work. I'm another refugee from the dust of softies.
I'm interested in what you say about the Pitt brush pens. I don't know what they are, but it's hard to imagine that the oil pastel doesn't gum it up somehow. Tell me more!

HI, Wendy -

The Pitt pens are by Faber-Castell, called Pitt Artist Pen, I'm using the ones with a brush tip, but they have other tips, too. They're widely available (I think) and reasonably priced. If you draw into a thin layer of (soft) OP, they kind of push it out of the way, good for tidying up edges; if you draw into a thicker layer, you'll move a little bit of the pastel out of the way, but the ink color won't show up as much. Surprisingly, the pen doesn't seem to be adversely affected by the OP, the OP just sort of dissolves.

I haven't used the technique much, and only on Sennelier/Holbein, so please try it first on something you don't care too much about (but you knew that).

Let me know if you get a chance to try it, I'd be interested to hear how it works for you.

Lisa.

lisasb
02-29-2008, 08:28 PM
Bill, I enjoy the babbling, this is such a great group and everyone seems to be as excited as I am about this medium. I know I'll be guilty of babbling any day now.

I can't wait to look at the links you mentioned. Hmmm - maybe I need some NeoPastels, too -- I see a large Visa bill in my future ;)

Pat, your start is looking great, I can't wait to see the rest. And at the risk of sounding sappy, I was looking at your classroom thread (a still life with cantaloupe), and it convinced me that it was possible to do highly realistic OP paintings -- up until that point, I had kind of given up on OP for realism.

So inspiring!

Lisa.

BTW, HI to Jane and Paul and thanks for your kind remarks! You're right, Paul, I was peeking in the window for about a week while I got my courage up to post!

Pat Isaac
02-29-2008, 08:40 PM
Thanks, Lisa. this is a whole new venture for me.Bill, no catalog yet so I am going to order on line tomorrow

Pat

tubbekans
02-29-2008, 09:34 PM
It's coming right along Pat! I kind of like the scumbling too, but I think I need more practice at it. Your's is looking good!

Intersting idea on the Pitt brush pens Lisa. I might have to play with that some.

Paulafv
03-02-2008, 08:32 PM
I have about 90 Holbeins, 150 Senns and the 96 set of Neopastel Oil Pastels. I prefer the latter because they are between the Holbeins and Senns and more comfortable and accurate to use.

You can use any colored pencil for detail, because it will carry some of your oils with it, but if you want an oil pencil, Walnut Hollow is very soft and pleasant to use and Lyra Rembrandt has an oil pencil as well which I've not used, but seems good and offers more colors than Walnut Hollow. Any pencil will do. Were I to buy only one type of oil pastel, it would be the Neopastel Oil Pastel. Good mix of colors and they blend easily.

I do like the color shapers, which are on sale at Jerry's Artarama until 4/30. They are similiar to a paint brush for oil pastels and allow you to blend and push the paint where you want it to go. Not necessary, but nice to use. You can also use a plastic eraser in a Pentel holder to move paint, and your own fingers are always handy.images/icons/icon7.gif

Scarefishcrow
03-04-2008, 05:02 PM
I have about 90 Holbeins, 150 Senns and the 96 set of Neopastel Oil Pastels. I prefer the latter because they are between the Holbeins and Senns and more comfortable and accurate to use.



I really like the NeoPastels as well. Have you tried using a large opening crayon sharpener to put a fine point on the NeoPastels???? Aside from the sight of those expensive shavings falling into the waste, they sharpen to a very nice point and are firm enough to use for finer line work (although, obviously, the point will wear quickly). However, if you need an outline or something like that I suggest trying a sharpener on the NeoPastels. Their small diameter and intermediate firmness makes them perfect for that.


Bill:music: :heart: :music:

tubbekans
03-12-2008, 11:26 PM
I did make a few changes to my landscape while Bill was in the tropics but not enough to be worth posting yet. I am still planning to do more revisions on the tree mass on the left side, maybe take it more towards separate trees. Might even put some pears on it for good measure. I hope to get something posted by the weekend at least. Teach is coming back some day and going to kick some hieney if we aren't working on our paintings.

sundiver
03-13-2008, 07:32 AM
Teach is coming back some day and going to kick some hieney if we aren't working on our paintings.

:lol: That's right, so get scumbling, or smearing, or blending!
Seriously though, I hope you've had some fun with this.

tubbekans
03-14-2008, 11:55 AM
I sure have had fun with the landscape Wendy. I even had a visitor who claimed to like it. Until I tried doing this landscape I wouldn't have thought I could get anything reasonable looking done in OP, especially a landscape.. I think I am slowly learning to use them, in part due to this class. Thanks for hosting it! By the way, Bill has been out back smoking with the bad kids for most of the week. I think they were pitching pears or pennies or something too. :D

Scarefishcrow
03-14-2008, 12:23 PM
Snitch!!!!:evil: :p

BTW, Paul, did you forget to attach the image? Or are we have trouble with those silly image gremlins again?? That must be it, huh???:cool: :angel: :confused:

I'm gonna fess up, teach! I played hooky and I am so ashamed of myself, I'm going to get right back to work because you are such a good teacher :clap: ; the kind that forgives wayword students and is very understanding:crying: :wave: .

I'm gonna turn over a new "leaf" and finish my landscape! Coming soon to an OP classroom near you!

Thanks for all your time and hope you enjoyed your break, Wendy!!

Bill

tubbekans
03-16-2008, 09:26 PM
Well, no, I didn't post it Bill. I thought a little guff would get me some slack ya' know. But here it is now. Not much change really, but I added some darks to the foliage which brought up the contrast some. I was thinking of trying to separate the large leaf/tree mass into smaller tree sections but decided it would take more OP than I own at the moment. I still think my large leaf mass looks like something out of a twilight zone episode though. But Iam happy I did this landscape class, I feel I learned some stuff that will help me from now on with OP.Thanks much for the class Wendy!

Bill, I suppose all the pears you are bringing Wendy are keeping you out of trouble somehow buddy. :wave:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Mar-2008/32632-WC_OPLandsape5_web.jpg

Scarefishcrow
03-17-2008, 01:25 AM
Paul--Just having a little fun! Your picture is really well done and I have to confess I keep looking at mine trying to figure out how to finish it without turning it into a mess. Anyway, I've got to pull it out and finish since yours looks so nice. Now the pressure is on!!!! I don't think the pears really worked with the teacher!!! Somehow I never was very good at pulling off the Eddie Haskall routine. I always got shot down!!!!

It's late so I better cut and run!

Later.

:music: :heart: :music:

P.S. You are right, :clap: :thumbsup: :angel: for Wendy taking the time to show us the ropes in OP landscape. Well done, too bad you had such slacker students, Wendy!!! (Especially that Bill guy!! What a brown noser!!!!)

Pat Isaac
03-17-2008, 07:52 AM
You really have some cut ups for students, Wendy...:rolleyes:

Nice landscape, Paul, and mine is still in the beginning stage. I like the depth of the foliage you have achieved and the sunlit path.

Pat

tubbekans
03-17-2008, 06:08 PM
Thanks Pat! I guess it looks better all shrunk down on the computer screen than IRL.

Thanks Bill, but no pressure! You have your own learning path to follow and marks to make! I think the pears are a fine reason to be skipping landscape class for a bit. Your pears in the March OP challenge are well worth the effort. However your landscape comes out it will be a learning experience and thats the point after all.

Now that Pat, she has a good reason too with her show to get ready for I suppose. I don't know Bill, what do you think? Letting a little thing like preparing for a show get in the way and moderating a forum etc... Tsk-tsk :evil: :D!

Pat Isaac
03-17-2008, 07:10 PM
Ah, the evil ones are afoot....:lol: but I'll get you my pretty...:evil: :evil: Just wait and see....

Pat

Scarefishcrow
03-17-2008, 08:56 PM
AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TO!!!


THERE GOES THAT HALO AGAIN, PAT. I'M THINKING OF SEND YOU SOME SUPER GLUE.


:lol: :lol:

Blue Pencil
03-17-2008, 09:58 PM
awesome work

sundiver
03-22-2008, 09:50 AM
What's all that noise in the back??? Are you kids working ? Didn't think so. No, I don't want to hear who started it. And put away the pears, Bill, it's not recess yet.
;)

Pat Isaac
03-22-2008, 09:56 AM
I'm working, I'm working......but the darn super glue is stuck to my fingers....:lol:

Pat

Scarefishcrow
03-22-2008, 06:52 PM
I'm sorry, teacher. I get distracted easily. You got a real bunch of cutups in this class. I think you got the rejects from the other art classes. We're corrupting even Pat!

But, seriously, Wendy, thanks a lot for showing us some new techniques. I will finish and post......soon.


Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

tubbekans
03-23-2008, 12:30 PM
Whew! Guess I am safe as long as your fingers are all glued up Pat! Happy Easter to all you OP classroom students!

Hi Blue pencil thanks for coming by to see our stuff! :wave:

Wendy they aren't all bad those kids, some of them may be redeemable later in life... I suggest a little paddling to straighten them out. Worked for me. I think.

Now Bill, I don't know about him. Could take a little after school study hall to focus his attention. :thumbsup:

Scarefishcrow
03-23-2008, 02:12 PM
Now Bill, I don't know about him. Could take a little after school study hall to focus his attention. :thumbsup:

Paul, I spent 52 years in school and I don't thing a coulple of hours after class is going to help:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm saving the finished product for a real rainy day!.

Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

tubbekans
03-26-2008, 08:08 PM
Getting any rain out there yet Bill? I better check the weather report and see how you are faring...:D

Oh well, no study hall for you I suppose. :wave:

Scarefishcrow
03-26-2008, 09:17 PM
Getting any rain out there yet Bill? I better check the weather report and see how you are faring...:D

Oh well, no study hall for you I suppose. :wave:

You better be nice to me Paul or WC might get an anonymous tip about who has the Network skills to wreak havoc with the system!!!:evil: :evil: :evil:

Naah. I'm to much of an :angel: for that. I can see I'm not gonna get any slack until I figure out how to finish the darn landscape. I have "shadow block", "pink flower modelling phobia", and "what color do i make that sunstreaked midground blues".

Oh the agony of being an atriste!!!! If the commoners only knew the turmoi we go through to bring them our "mess"terpieces.

Hey, you go any of those violins or cello's left from the pears????

Let me know, quick!

Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

tubbekans
03-27-2008, 06:07 PM
Ahhh yes Bill, the agony of all those wine and cheese receptions, all those little crackers and snacks etc! All that time spent picking out the cheapest wine for the recepetion that won't make the buyers actually sick... I did green, white, and blue wine for a reception once. They just didn't go for the blue at all. They ate a lot of chocolate though.

Twang, twang, twang, :music: I feel those landscape blues a coming on, they're coming round the bend! :music: Hey, maybe you should try an impressionistic version of the landscape? :music: Twang, twang? :music: That's my sad banjo music for you. I think Pat has the violin market cornered!

Pat Isaac
03-27-2008, 06:32 PM
I definitely have the market covered....and what's with that :angel: , Bill???
I am surely in the mid range of the landscape....

Pat

lisasb
03-27-2008, 10:42 PM
Ahhh yes Bill, the agony of all those wine and cheese receptions, all those little crackers and snacks etc! All that time spent picking out the cheapest wine for the recepetion that won't make the buyers actually sick... I did green, white, and blue wine for a reception once. They just didn't go for the blue at all. They ate a lot of chocolate though.


I found the BEST wine for open studios, when half the people coming through just stop by to eat and drink -- I bought a lovely red wine called "Cheapskate Miser"! It doesn't taste bad (honest), and I think it lets people know what my priorities are -- then again, sales weren't exactly stellar this year...hmm, maybe I should rethink the wine...

Lisa.

Scarefishcrow
03-28-2008, 08:30 AM
Oh No! Now I have a banjo violin string duet with a wine steward:eek: :eek: :music: :music: :music: :evil:

And cheap wine at that! Luckily, being from Wisconsin I can at least supply some good cheese (its the shivering in the winter that makes the cheese good, not sundrenched fields full of Holstein would be comedians California!!):p :p

I can see the only way this tortured thread is gonna make it to the Library is to finish that sucker up.


Hey! Just a doggone minute here. Our saintly patron St. Patricia (:angel: ) still hasn't even posted a block in!!! I think I'm being used to draw fire away from the trenches. Yup. I've been duped again!!! (Third time since I got up this morning!!! Boy am I "buoy"ling mad and one "gull"ible fellow. I should send the "boat" of you to your rooms!!

:smug: :smug:

Well, "water" you gonna do! You just gotta play the had that was "delta" you!

:evil:

:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
03-28-2008, 09:08 AM
Oh but I did, Bill, and it is on it's way to be finished.....:angel: :angel: You'll have to wait until next week though.

Pat

Pat Isaac
03-28-2008, 03:41 PM
Actually, I have an update to post today....this is so out of my comfort zone, Wendy. :eek:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Mar-2008/35760-land2.JPG
Maybe I can finish it next week.
Okay slackers, get going....

Pat

Scarefishcrow
03-28-2008, 04:42 PM
Oh drat!! I knew this thread had gotten too long.
Curses, foiled again!

Well, ordinarily I would have to swallow my pride and face up to my foibles. Unfortunately, over the years I seem to swallowed all my pride ( a not infrequent occurence) and my pride larder is empty. :o :o :o :o

As Jimmy Durante would say.."What a revoltin' development!"

:eek:
Forget the comfort zone Pat, GO FOR IT!!!!

:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
03-28-2008, 04:50 PM
A revoltin' developement for sure.....so ....I guess you need to stay after class to finish....no more excuses....:evil: :evil:

Pat :angel:

tubbekans
03-28-2008, 05:48 PM
I found the BEST wine for open studios, when half the people coming through just stop by to eat and drink -- I bought a lovely red wine called "Cheapskate Miser"! It doesn't taste bad (honest), and I think it lets people know what my priorities are -- then again, sales weren't exactly stellar this year...hmm, maybe I should rethink the wine...

Lisa.
Cheapskate Miser, sounds great Lisa11 :D :clap: I may have to look for that, I have another one in May. I can tell you for sure the blue wine doesn't help sales, a proven zero for that in fact. It must have been the wine, couldn't have been the art right? :D

I made my blue wine by dropping a little blue food coloring into Paul Masson chablis. I had the most fun just watching the food color slowly but surely spin down into the bottle and turn it blue, no stirring allowed.. The same wine colored green was no go. I was thinking of doing red, white and blue wines but didn't.

Aah, yes, it's about time to try some cheap wine on a Friday night while I relax and look at my finished landscape painting Bill! Boy, Pat's looks almost done, and just about complete and way ahead of the Billster-boy! What's the wife's phone number Bill? :D She might have something to say about this eh? Maybe you need a little Cheapskate Miser to loosen up the old painting arm!

Pat's landscape is so beautiful even only partly done isn't it Bill? I sense a race to the finish coming on. We are down to the wire for the March class and Pat is ahead by a nose, Wendy has her finish flag ready to drop and the horses are running! Slacker is behind by a length but may catch up on the bend if he smells that cheese at the finish line.

.

Pat Isaac
03-28-2008, 06:02 PM
I seem to sense someone gloating here....:smug:


Pat

tubbekans
03-28-2008, 06:26 PM
Ooops, who, moi Pat? :D I guess I shouldn't though, I was happy to get anything looking sort of like a landscape done for this class really. And poor Pear, I mean Bill has been cranking out lots of OP paintings in the sketch threads, and the monthly challenge and master's copies and stuff, while Lisa and I just sip some Cheapskate Miser and relax. Ah well, payback will come I suppose. Sorry Pear, I mean Bill! :D :wave:

Wendy did you see it's going to be 31 March on Monday? This coming Monday? Just a couple days away, almost down to hours away...:eek:

Scarefishcrow
03-28-2008, 07:28 PM
:p :p :p
:evil: :evil: :evil:
Revenge is a dish best served cold!!!!
:D :D :D

Scarefishcrow
03-28-2008, 10:47 PM
Only, this time it is going to be warm and sunny! Ta da!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p :D :D :evil:
Finishing work done with Holbeins.
Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

Scarefishcrow
03-28-2008, 11:12 PM
What's all that noise in the back??? Are you kids working ? Didn't think so. No, I don't want to hear who started it. And put away the pears, Bill, it's not recess yet.
;)

Ok, teach!! I very sorry I disrupted class and promise it will (most likely) NEVER happen again!!!!!:angel:

Besides you are one :cool: teacher and we didn't even have to have a sub while you were gone. That must mean you really trust us to behave!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :eek: Paul, stop that!

Sorry, Ms. Wendy; Paul was dipping Pat's ponytail into his ink well! I saw him!:evil:

Thanks for the class! As much I hate to admit it Paul's landscape is nicer than mine. But I still learned a lot!! And had a lot of fun, too!

You know, there is no worse student than an old retired teacher!!!

Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

lisasb
03-29-2008, 12:14 AM
Paul, I'm currently drinking a much better vintage while I watch the landscape race! Maybe for my next show - assuming there is another one -- I'll try color coordinating my wine with the palettes of my paintings.

Good work, Bill, congrats for finishing the landscape -- I like the color intensity. But no potshots at the lame California cheese ads :rolleyes: .

What a bunch of overachievers, Pat and Wendy you're so patient with them!
Lisa.

Pat Isaac
03-29-2008, 09:23 AM
I'm not sure overachievers is the word I would use.....:lol:
So glad you finished, Bill and we all thought you hadn't done anything...:rolleyes:
I like your color and the sunlit feel. I wonder if there might be some more darks behind the trees on the right so that the back ground recedes. Just a thought and I think you did a great job on this.
Now to finish mine.....

Pat :angel:

Scarefishcrow
03-29-2008, 11:20 AM
I'm not sure overachievers is the word I would use.....:lol:
So glad you finished, Bill and we all thought you hadn't done anything...:rolleyes:
I like your color and the sunlit feel. I wonder if there might be some more darks behind the trees on the right so that the back ground recedes. Just a thought and I think you did a great job on this.
Now to finish mine.....

Pat :angel:

:o :smug:
Uhhhh. Truth is I hadn't done anything. I did this last night after searching for my blockin! (Overachiever! Overachiever! I represent that remark! I'll have you know I CONSISTENTLY work beyond the level of my competence! So there! Hiccuppp!!! I knew I shouldn't have tried that new vintage my wife made before I did this... Hiccuppp!)

Actually, you are, as always, absolutely correct, Pat..

a.) The upper right corner needs more darks and slightly better definition. (This was the area that always worried me the most, what to do there).

b.) There is too much "smeary" work around the flowers (last minute attempts to make them come forward more so I could post last night. (Darn competitive gene; got to get rid of that!)

c.) After it sets up a little, I need to drop in a few well defined leaves on the plant to suggest the nearer vegetation.

Questions:

I felt the best part of the work was my handling of the rock "edging" along the path. Did I handle the shadowing and highlights ok on that?

Second, is the shadowing on the path believable and enough?

Last, do I need a sharper definition between the copse of trees on the left and those in the background. I thought at first it was to sharp, but now it looks as if there's no contrast to set them apart. What do you think?

Wendy, and the peanut "Gallo"ry; this has been a lot of fun, and "If ya' caint have no fun doin this here artsy f(? not sure if that is one of the allowed words)sy stuff, then ya' might as well "P(ut out) the campfire" and go home!"
That's what Paul always told me! And when Paul speaks, I listen (for any little openning to poke fun at him)! === Sorry Paul, it's that dagblasted key"boat" demmon that slips that stuff in when I'm not looking. You know, they told me to have the demon "exercised" and I signed him up the gym, but far as I can tell it only makes him worse rathern getting rid of him. Any advice???:confused:

Great class, wait with "baited" breath the "christening" of Pat's "buoy"ant and masterful work. I say she is without "pier" around here, and I'm going to be "anchored" to this spot until I see that sail (I mean canvas) show up!

Avast, ye maties, I be off to ponder how I'm gonna approach Winslow Homer's "Catboat" (Remember Wendell--NO "Study in Black and Gray No. 1", PLEASE!!!!)

:cool: :angel: :lol: :D :confused: :evil:
Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

tubbekans
03-29-2008, 11:31 AM
Oh no, the come from behind kid has made his mark and burst on the scene in the final stretch! Good going Bill! You have great contrast and light in your painting. The rocks look real good and the grasses in the back of them too. Nice job on the path also. You got your flowers nice and strong compared to mine which are kind of washed out.

So, what do think Bill? Will you touch up the darks a little in the tree area on the background right corner as Pat suggested? Could improve the final, final version a bit perhpas. I think I am detecting a subtle manuver here though to keep you working while another horse begins to catch up ... Perhaps this race is still on! There are still a couple days left...

Lisa you upgraded on me! I saw an art exhibit picture from Germany where the artist had mounted framed plexiglass containers on the wall and filled them with wine. The visitors then drank the wine from the "art" using a small tap on each framed piece. Very silly!

Found the link:
http://artdc.org/forum/index.php?topic=7661.0

Scarefishcrow
03-29-2008, 12:10 PM
Thanks Paul--It has been a lot of fun!

I think I might drop some darks in and make some minor changes. Nothing major, that's when I begin to mess everything up.


Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
03-29-2008, 02:08 PM
Aaah, we have as long as we want on this project...no time limit on classrooms....so I can still finish....:thumbsup: Don't hold your breath..:lol:
I think the rocks came out well, Bill and the shadow is believable. Drop in the darks and call it done...

Pat

Scarefishcrow
03-29-2008, 02:15 PM
Aye, Aye, Captain Pat!
Thanks! :music: :heart: :music:

Tracy Lewis
03-30-2008, 04:29 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Mar-2008/101106-landscape_lesson_in_oil_pastels.jpg Thank goodness we have pictures again. Great work all. I had to stop work on this today as I was working from the ref pic on my computer, and lost the pic in mid flow.:eek: :mad: Back too it tomorrow now.

Scarefishcrow
03-30-2008, 05:11 PM
Excellent start Tracy! I think the Image gremlins have been at work on the site again. Look forward to your finish!

Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
03-30-2008, 05:18 PM
Great start, Tracy. I couldn't see the image when you first posted, but there it is now. So glad you decided to join us.

Pat

sundiver
03-31-2008, 06:00 AM
Actually, I have an update to post today....this is so out of my comfort zone, Wendy. :eek:
Pat

I know exactly what you mean, Pat, having recently spent hours grumbling over the OP Portrait classroom!:lol:
But this is looking lovely; nice textures.

Bill, good for you! You can play with the Lego now, but no throwing it at the other students! Seriously, you've done very well. You might consider putting some blue-sky reflections in the shadows. Overall very successful.:clap:

Tracy, a terrific start! I like the way you did the foliage in the trees.

Pat Isaac
03-31-2008, 07:47 AM
Thanks, Wendy. The clear ground really made a nice texture. Not sure I would want that for everything, but it works well for landscapes.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
04-01-2008, 02:54 PM
Well, This is the final version. Added some darks to the upper right and made a few adjustments. Let me know what you think.

Bill
:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
04-01-2008, 03:26 PM
I think you did a fine job with this, Bill. You beat me to it....:thumbsup: :D now I can take my time...:lol: as if I haven't been.
You might think about adding some warmer lights to the road and I like your addition of darks between the trees.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
04-01-2008, 03:49 PM
I think you did a fine job with this, Bill. You beat me to it....:thumbsup: :D now I can take my time...:lol: as if I haven't been.
You might think about adding some warmer lights to the road and I like your addition of darks between the trees.

Pat

Actually, I hated to go back and touch this, thinking of Chase's statement it takes two to paint; one to paint and one with and axe to kill him before he ruins it!

Well, I didn't have an axeman handy and that is what usually happens when I start tinkering.

I actually was at one point where terror was taking over as I though; Oh _____! Now I'll never save this. But, in the end, those soft little senns to the resue and things worked out well (for me at least). I put it on the piano under a light and stepped back and thought, oh, the lights casting a shadow on the picture where the two copses of trees come together. Then walked up and realized, gee, it's not a shadow it's the painting and I'm not even sure how I got that to come out that way! There are plenty of nitpicks I can see, too; but I felt really good about how this came out.

So thanks Wendy, Pat, Paul, and everyone else for the suggestions and the class. Take your time Pat, I think you have plenty on your hands right now. Besides, this is just child's play for a Master like you! Right?

I think I'm starting to learn that no matter how long you work at it and how skillful you get, it's never child's play!! I think Michaelangelo said something like a work of art is something that takes time, toil and anguish but in the end looks like it was done quickly and with little effort! That's the trick! Effort!!

(Pat-- You're right about the highlights in the path, but I think I'll let my nerves settle for a while before I go jabbing at this one right away! Besides, Winslow calls, and Wendell waits!!!! I have to be careful of he'll have me doing Arrangement in Gray and Black No.1 for sure!!!!)

:music: :heart: :music:

Pat Isaac
04-01-2008, 04:24 PM
I understand, Bill..Leave it alone and move on...I've ruined many a painting by fiddling...:eek:

Pat

tubbekans
04-03-2008, 07:10 PM
Nice touch up Bill. The rocks look really good now. You got some better contrast going all over. A real nice finish.

Welcome to the crazy club Tracy! You certainly have a nice start on your landscape. Looks like you put your darks in first? I probably should have done that also I think.

Well, seems the horse race is over! No deadline sounds real good Pat. Makes it hard to win bets though...:lol:

Scarefishcrow
04-03-2008, 08:55 PM
Thanks, Paul....We did have a lot of fun in here, didn't we. Just like being back in elementary shool again! It is the one thing about getting older that is appealing.... the older you get the sillier you can be and less important it becomes to anybody that notices!

Oh, Wendy, Thanks for a wonderful opportunity, challenge and being a fun teacher. If I had been that good maybe I'd still be at it!

And, oh, Tracy and Pat, we will be checking here periodically just to make sure there's no cutting up in Ms. Wendy's classroom when she isn't watching.

We don't allow that sort of inappropriate behaviour once Paul and I have finished the project, only while we are still working on it. Sorry, but that's just the way it is! No one ever said life was fair!:evil: :evil:

Cheers,
Bill
:music: :heart: :music:
P.S., Paul, let's go peek in some of the other classrooms and see if they have more leggo's, this place is running a little low. Watcha' you say?

Pat Isaac
04-04-2008, 07:54 AM
So you think you are the only ones who have fun?? :lol: We are still having fun and I do believe my landscape is on hold but it will be finished....I don't think I am avoiding it...:rolleyes:
Really working on a lot of other things right now....
Sorry about the bets Paul.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
04-04-2008, 08:21 AM
So you think you are the only ones who have fun?? :lol: We are still having fun and I do believe my landscape is on hold but it will be finished....I don't think I am avoiding it...:rolleyes:
Really working on a lot of other things right now....
Sorry about the bets Paul.

Pat

Actually, want to come play hookey with us Pat???? We could have lot's of fun. Paul knows where all the fun toys are stored around here. Boy, he's smart, and sneaky, too.

Ooops. Shhhhhhh. Teach just came back from the principal's office.

Anonymous
:music: :heart: :music:

tubbekans
04-04-2008, 12:28 PM
Hah, Bill's laying the butter on pretty thick, smart eh? I don't think so Bill! My toys are right over... Hey wait a minute now! Get your own toys! :lol:

Well, I am looking forward to the on going landscape adventures.

Pat's busy, Lisa has a good start, and Bill is on the playground already.

I wonder if we will get any more landscape artists showing up? No time limit, so come out and play!

tubbekans
04-18-2008, 07:14 PM
Well I did it again. I meant to say Tracey you have a good start. Shoot Lisa done finished after all. :o

Tracy Lewis
04-25-2008, 09:37 AM
Finished at last.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Apr-2008/101106-scan0002.jpg

Pat Isaac
04-25-2008, 09:47 AM
Great job, Tracey. I love the sunlit path.
Mine is still on hold...

Pat

sundiver
08-22-2008, 12:17 AM
I don't know how I missed this! Great Tracy, love the loose impasto strokes; it's almost like pallette knife work.

RainySea
08-22-2008, 09:24 AM
Pat, did you ever post your final of this one. . . curious to see it but not having luck finding it. :)

Pat Isaac
08-22-2008, 09:40 AM
:eek: No I didn't Rainy as I didn't quite finish it, that's not to say that I won't as I really don't have a lot more to do on it. Got hung up with other stuff...


Pat

Scarefishcrow
08-25-2008, 06:02 PM
:eek: No I didn't Rainy as I didn't quite finish it, that's not to say that I won't as I really don't have a lot more to do on it. Got hung up with other stuff...


Pat

BUSTED, BOSS!!!!!! TAP....TAP....TAP.....TAPITTY....TAP!

:lol: :lol:

Bill:thumbsup:

Pat Isaac
08-25-2008, 06:46 PM
:eek: I was found out......busted for sure....

Pat

robertsloan2
01-29-2009, 12:51 PM
Is this still open? I love your paintings, Wendy, and the reference is gorgeous. I'd like to try it.

Pat Isaac
01-29-2009, 03:44 PM
Definitely try it Robert and when you are ready to post something, let me know and I'll set up a link in our regular forum.

pt

robertsloan2
02-01-2009, 12:47 PM
Thanks!

Colorix
02-11-2009, 06:14 PM
Hey, me too, I've just plowed through all this (so much fun!) and I'd love to try this, to learn. Always admired Wendy's landscapes, and this has been sitting here all the time and I didn't know!

Charlie

Pat Isaac
02-11-2009, 06:44 PM
Have a blast, Charlie.

Pat

Colorix
02-12-2009, 02:56 PM
Thank you Pat, I will, real soon.

Charlie

robertsloan2
02-14-2009, 01:06 AM
Me too! I'm getting somewhere on my stuff for Charlie's class and looking forward to starting this one!

kazuki
10-24-2009, 11:39 PM
Here are the value masses, posterized to 4 values. Too much dark in the middle, but that's the photo and I don't have to stick with that.


What water color should I use for underpainting?

Pat Isaac
10-25-2009, 04:35 PM
It doesn't really matter. Wendy used gouache in this classroom as it was handy, but any water media works.

Pat

kazuki
10-25-2009, 10:05 PM
It doesn't really matter. Wendy used gouache in this classroom as it was handy, but any water media works.

Pat

Thanks, Pat. I have only poster color. One from about 10 years back in the beginning of my art class. I stopped water colors when I moved to oils. So I'll be buying new one for this purpose, I want to know which one to buy.

Pat Isaac
10-25-2009, 11:10 PM
Hi Sue,
Do you mean brand names? If you are only going to be using them for an underpainting, almost any watercolor would work, but if you are intending to pursue more serious watercolor panting, then you may want some pro brands.

Pat

kazuki
10-26-2009, 12:52 AM
Thanks Pat. Going shopping on thursday :-)