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View Full Version : How to apply the artspectrum primer?


marsias
02-07-2008, 10:46 AM
Hello.

I just have ordered the "clear" version of artspectrum primer.

My questions are :

1. Can i use a paper with 200 grm?
2. First i apply the primer and then transfer the sketch(saral transfer paper) to paper or in reverse order?
3. Must be the layers of the primer, Thick or Thin that just cover the paper?
4 . Which tool can i use to apply the primer?

thanks.

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 02:33 PM
I am also interested in how the primer, including the colored ones, work and what experience people have had with them. How do they compare to the prepared papers? Is this a more economical approach does the cost/benefit work out to be worth the trouble? It would seem to allow you to create whatever size format you wanted without waste and the descriptions seem to suggest almost any surface could potentially be used which might be advantagous.

Also, what is the best supplier for the papers (i.e., best price). They seem expensive at first blush.

Thanks.

:cat:

marsias
02-07-2008, 03:05 PM
Hello.

the aspect to use a primer is more economical.

1 Sheet 14 x 18 ready primed cost about $6(artspectrum).

1 primer (250 ml) cost about $14.

Question is how many sheets(14 x 18) can i cover with this primer?:confused: :confused:

Maybe someone here in forum can tell this.

i think ,If i use very thin layers can i cover maybe 10 sheets which is a profit of $46(60-14) THIS IS EXCELLENT.

nico

Pat Isaac
02-07-2008, 03:25 PM
I have used the primer and like it very much. I have used it on gessoed masonite, clayboard, museum board. watercolor paper, mat board and all have been fine. I usually apply 2 coats to whatever surface I am using and put it on with a foam roller. I find that it goes a long way.
Most of the big catalog art suppliers are about the same price. I try to watch for their specials.
I apply the primer first and then the sketch. If by clear you mean transparent, then you could probably do the sketch first.

Pat

marsias
02-07-2008, 03:54 PM
Hello pat.

Can you tell how many sheets(14 x 18) you have covered with a 250ml primer approximaly? if you can tell this.

A interesting question also is how many ml in a ready primed colorfix paper are?

nico

Peiwend
02-07-2008, 04:12 PM
Nico and Bill, I have used this primer as well as the Golden Acrylic Ground for Pastels and have found them both to be quite satisfactory but I prefer the Colourfix paper. Apparently the Colourfix paper is silkscreened for a very even surface which would be difficult to achieve at home.

I would suggest you try the primer on a small piece of the 200 gsm paper but it might be a bit thin and might buckle depending on the paper. I have used it on 300 gsm hot pressed watercolour paper and 640 gsm watercolour paper as well as rag matboard. The 300 gsm paper needed to be stretched first to get a flat surface. I preferred the matboard. The matboard should be dampened on the back with water before applying the primer so it doesn't curl and dries flat.

You can do your drawing first with pencil and apply the primer or apply the primer first. I would suggest you prime first.

It is better to apply the primer thinly and use two coats if necessary unless you want a heavily textured surface.

I use a bristle brush to apply the primer but others might prefer a small foam roller or foam brush. It is difficult to get an entirely even surface and your brush strokes will probably show through oil pastels.

It should be noted that the clear primer is not completely transparent and will give a cloudy appearance on some dark papers.

Thinly applied you should be able to do more than ten sheets.

If cost is the primary consideration, you might want to try the Golden Acrylic Ground for Pastels. Before using any product you should read and follow the instructions on the container. You can also make your own primer with acrylic mat medium or gesso, pumice, and water. This would certainly be the cheapest by far. There are recipes in the soft pastel forum. I think that pumice is a kind of ground volcanic rock which is used by dentists to clean teeth.

Nico, no amount of advice can replace your own experimentation.

Bill, I buy my Colourfix paper from Dick Blick because their prices are reasonable and their shipping to Canada is the most reasonable that I have found.

My personal preference is the Colourfix Supertooth.

Hoping this is helpful...

_______________________Wendell

Pat Isaac
02-07-2008, 04:13 PM
Nico, I can't really answer your question about the paper as I have no idea. I can tell you that I covered 3 24" x 36" sheets of clayboard, using 2 coats each, and used almost a whole jar. Does that help?

Pat

Pat Isaac
02-07-2008, 04:18 PM
It's true that I think Dick Blick is the best for out of the US and may be the only one.

Wouldn't the pumice ground really chew up the oil pastels? Have you used this ground with OPs, Wendell? I'd be interested in your reaction.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 04:28 PM
Pat, Wendell and Nico: Thank you for your comments.

In looking at the specifications for the primer, it indicates that the 250 ml size covers approximately 12 sq. ft. I haven't done the calculation, but it seems reasonable to assume that is a liberal estimate and that the efficiency of self application is probably not as good as preapplied. (Nico, you will have to do the metric conversions!). As I consider the question, my inclination is that the savings would be minimal. However, the ability to use the primer on various supports AND the ability to prepare CUSTOM SIZES of support without having to cut prepared sheets and potentially have unusable remnants may be the biggests advantage.

Seem reasonable?

:wave:

LJW
02-07-2008, 04:36 PM
Pat, I got my studio easel, my Holbein set and other stuff from Jerry's Artarama. Wendell, I actually found their shipping charges less than Blicks, because Blick tends to use FedEx which is by far the most expensive for me. Their custom brokerage charges are unreal, and that's on top of what you pay the vendor for shipping. Jane

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 04:37 PM
It's true that I think Dick Blick is the best for out of the US and may be the only one.

Pat

Pat- Jerry's Artarama has a wide variety of AS Colorfix papers and primers listed as available.

Off the subject a bit, in browsing around the product review test area I encountered a reference to Extrea Greasy Oil Pastels from Kama Pigments Artists Materials Supply. They seem to be described as something like oil sticks with less siccative and no skinning. Have you encountered them??

Their site is also a veritable gold mine of information and a source of raw materials like pigments, waxes, etc. with demonstrations and recipes for things like how to make paint, how to tube your paint, and various other things of interest.

Check them out... http://www.kamapigment.com/index_en.html
Jane might find this site interesting given her experiments with making OPs by hand. Lots of info that is relevant!!!
:wave:

marsias
02-07-2008, 04:37 PM
Hello pat.

if i right calculate you information, i can cover 12 sheets of 14" x 18" with the whole primer(1 coat).

Thanks wendell for the infos.

Last question: how long takes to dy the primer, so i can begin to paint?

nico.

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 04:39 PM
Speak of the devil! I just mentioned you, Jane, in a reply that contains a link you might be interested in if you are not already familiar with it....

http://www.kamapigment.com/index_en.html

Pat Isaac
02-07-2008, 04:50 PM
Interesting, it must just be to Europe and beyond that the others don't ship to. For some reason I thought it was Canada also. I mostly use Jerry's. Enjoy your new supplies, Jane.
I had seen that site before, Bill and have been tempted to get some of those. Thanks for bringing it to mind again.
When it comes to sizes, I am different in my approach. I cannot start a painting with a predetermined size. I have to just start the drawing and then crop where I want. Soooo, that is why I like larger sizes and I cut them down to what I want when the piece is finished and amazingly I don't have a lot of waste. I just find it incredibly confining to start with a predetermined size.

Pat

LJW
02-07-2008, 04:53 PM
Bill, I have visited the Kama site before, but I find it a little frustrating to use. Anyway, they say that the extra greasy oil will form a skin:

"Even if they have less oil, EXTRA-GREASY OIL PASTELS can be mixed in between themselves and they'll dry to form a tough skin as fast as oil sticks. Therefore, a skin will also form on the surface of the pastel and has to be removed before use."

The limited number of colours available in oil sticks, generally, and their Extra-greasy Oil Pastels, make them more like using oils. (I have Shiva Oil Sticks and W&N Oil Bars). I REALLY like the convenience of picking up the colour I want and using it. That's why I have added to my collection of OPs over time, and now have all the Holbeins and Senneliers and most of the Caran d'Ache. It's one of the reasons why I rarely paint in oils anymore - I hate having to mix colours!

I haven't been making any new colours since I have expanded my collection. It's hard to predict exactly what you'll get because the colour seems to shift as it cools. Making OPs is more for fun than anything else. Jane

Peiwend
02-07-2008, 04:57 PM
Pat, I haven't actually tried the pumice ground because I didn't get the pumice as yet. I did ask another artist who is a retired dentist and he said that pumice comes in different grades from very fine to coarse. It is also used in toothpaste and tooth powder. He said it costs around five dollars a pound and that my dentist might give me a bit to try.

As you've probably noticed I use a fairly heavy hand and my application is quite heavy. My preference, therefore, would be for a heavier support with a lot of tooth. Please take this into consideration.

Bill, since I often frame without mats the primed rag matboard works best for this. Otherwise, I prefer the prepared paper.

__________________________Wendell

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 05:00 PM
Jane-
Thanks for clearing up my misconcept about the EGOPs. I really want to try Oil Bars or Oil Sticks, but they are really expensive. Which would you reccomend as a starter set? Brand, colors??

As far as Kama, I just thought they had a rather ecclectic selection of all sorts of supplies and considered it interesting they seemed to give a lot of advice on "how to.." stuff.

Thanks, again.

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 05:02 PM
Thanks, Wendell!

Pat Isaac
02-07-2008, 05:06 PM
I tend to agree with that assessment of the OPs on that site. I tend to think that they are more like the R& F pigment sticks that I sometimes use. They form a skin eventually and are very greasy. That is why I love them and perhaps why at the time I never ordered anything from that site as I thought they were really oil sticks. However, I am still intrigued. It may be that they are a smaller size of oil sticks. I'll have to look more closely.

Pat

Peiwend
02-07-2008, 05:15 PM
Jane, I also had the Fedex experience with Blick. The air was blue when I got the bill for brokerage. Now, I get them to send the order by USPS Priority Post and pay the actual shipping cost as well as $5.00 plus GST at the local post office. I ordered once from ASW and they charged me $15.95 plus the actual shipping cost as well as the brokerage and GST. I would love to know what shipping option you use at Jerry's and what it costs.

_______________________Wendell

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 05:21 PM
Pat- Do you mean you start your sketch on the colorfix? I assume you work out preliminary sketches, but are you saying that you like to make adjustments as you begin to get the prelimnary composition down on the support you are using. I also noticed in some of your previous comments around the forum that you will tend to crop near the end of your project to refine the work as it nears the end and you see that slight format changes might improve the overall effect. Am I correct in this observation??

I can see your point, and it does seem that, at least for me, it is sometimes hard to break out of the mindset that the tablet, sheet and canvas sizes must mean that you have to scale your composition to the predetermined format. After all, aren't these "standard sizes" that "real artists" use?? Therefore, they must be the shapes you should use.

It is hard to stop thinking like a consumer and think like an artist!!!!! And I don't just mean in shapes and colors. Our ingrained ideas of what is "right" and "appropriate" seem to permeate every part of our personalities.

Sorry for babbling, but after I got interested in Art, I really began to see things in the world I had never noticed before (and I have a Ph.D. in Biology and am supposed to be a skilled observer). It began to make me think that it is sad that when art can be a vehicle for teaching all sorts of skills and critical thinking in everything from mathematics to psychology to natural history to cultural diversity, etc. that we should put enormous emphasis on this from the earliest education of children. Things that seem dull to study can become fascinating when viewed in the context of its application in art. Point in case, think of all the concepts that could be taught in dealing with various aspects of Perspective alone!!

Sorry for getting off the topic, but sometimes it seems threads are confining as well since, like a spider web, each thread connects to others somewhere. That's how I have begun to see art. Even when I screw something up it seems I learn something from the experience.

What an awesome community this is!!!!

Pat Isaac
02-07-2008, 05:22 PM
I use ups at Jerry's and I usually wait until I need a good order. It is usually about $8, but that is US and I don't know about Canada shipping.

Pat

Pat Isaac
02-07-2008, 05:33 PM
Bill, you are absolutely right in your idea of how I work. Yes, there are standard sizes of canvases, paper, etc. and frames! Even when I was an oil painter, I never worked on standard sizes. I worked out sketches and compositions and then determined the size canvas I wanted. My husband always said how come you don't work on standard sizes and the cost of framing would be cheaper....:rolleyes: Hard to change. I like the freedom of no confined edges...There really isn't much that is right or wrong in art. Standard sizes are cheaper to frame.
Oh boy, don't get me going on the necessity of the arts in education. My oldest daughter had a PHD in micro biology and was always immeshed in the music and drama programs in school. It was certainly to her advantage.....Sorry that now here others don't have that opportunity. Talk about being off topic...
Yes, it is an awesome community.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 05:38 PM
Pat- another really quick question
What colors of the colorfix large sheets would you recommend as the most versatile for a beginner. Sometimes I just want to order every type, but now that I'm retired my wife is beginning to frown even more than usual at the strategy. (She's frugal, but she's great!).

Topic, Smopic. Here we are talking about the fact that you mustn't confine yourself as an artist and we worry about getting off topic. Kinda' weird, huh? (Pat I told you I think in a very convoluted and constantly changing way!!)

Pat Isaac
02-07-2008, 05:54 PM
Well, for a beginner, I would recommend the neutral tones. You can't go wrong with them. The light grays and blues. Eventually you can move on. I do like the neutral dark green also.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-07-2008, 06:17 PM
Pat - Thanks for the advice.

Peiwend
02-07-2008, 07:53 PM
Nico, the primer dries quite fast - 15 minutes to one hour, depending on the conditions. If it's hot and dry it will dry faster but if it's cool and damp it will take longer to dry. You should wait a couple of hours before drawing or painting on the surface.

___________________________ Wendell

sundiver
02-07-2008, 08:31 PM
I've never used the coloured primer, but sometimes mix it with acrylics to colour it.I haven't tried the Colorfix primer, because I can't get it locally (yeah, brokerage fees!)
I do use Liquitex clear primer, quite liquidy but with a good tooth, and Golden and Windsor & Newton clear gel primers, thick enough for Canson without warping much and then the colour of the Canson shows through.
I've also made clear primer with pumice and acrylic medium and it's much the same.
If I use watercolour paper I do the underpainting before the primer.
I have no idea how far the primer goes but it seems like an economical alternative to using only sanded paper and is adaptable for a variety of effects.

LJW
02-07-2008, 10:30 PM
Bill, if you want to try the oil sticks/bars, I would recommend the Shivas - a dark and a lighter blue, a light yellow and yellow ochre, Sap green, a red and white. They tend to be more transparent and less impasto than OPs, so be ready for that. With regard to Colourfix, I like the light blue, the green and the terra cotta the best, but white is good for flowers where you want some feeling of transparency.

Wendell, I have gotten things from Jerry's via USPS and UPS. Both of these methods seem to be less than FedEx. But I find the whole shipping thing somewhat baffling - I order online, and I haven't been able to figure out which is the cheapest method. Often what they quote as a lower price in shipping ends up with higher fees payable on delivery. I hope I've got most of my supplies now and won't have to shop in the US for a while.

Jane

Scarefishcrow
02-08-2008, 11:14 PM
The limited number of colours available in oil sticks, generally, and their Extra-greasy Oil Pastels, make them more like using oils. (I have Shiva Oil Sticks and W&N Oil Bars). I REALLY like the convenience of picking up the colour I want and using it. That's why I have added to my collection of OPs over time, and now have all the Holbeins and Senneliers and most of the Caran d'Ache. It's one of the reasons why I rarely paint in oils anymore - I hate having to mix colours!

I haven't been making any new colours since I have expanded my collection. It's hard to predict exactly what you'll get because the colour seems to shift as it cools. Making OPs is more for fun than anything else. Jane

Jane--A thought occurred to me regarding the Extra GP and Oil Sticks vs. OPs. As you said, making OP's seems unpredictable and probably more trouble than it is worth. However, the discussion that revolved around using Oil Paints in the process (sorry I don't remember who started that thread) made me wonder if perhaps it might be possible to make Oil Sticks out of Oil Paints on hand and modification of the proceedures the two threads discussed. Just speculating that the Oil Paint method would probably still not be very efficient for making OPs, but finding a realtively simple mix of components to stiffen the Oil Paint into a usable Oil Bar might not be that difficult.

Would you have any thoughts on this possibility (Actually, I like oil paints but like the stick idea which is what lead me to OPs before I even realized that Oil Sticks existed).

Bill

Scarefishcrow
02-08-2008, 11:23 PM
In fact, I borrowed a couple of old, unused, small, low temp wax bath pots from school and was going to try out your method but never got around to it. (These used to utilized to infiltrate biological specimens in melted parafin wax baths for long periods before embedding them in paraffin and slicing them into thin sections for making microscope slides. However, today most people use various types of plastic resins to do this and don't use the parafin baths much any more).

Anyway, I have some white beeswax, stand oil, oil paints and various other oil media and solvents. If you could suggest a reasonable recipe I would be glad to give it a try and see what happens. Let me know if you are interested.

Bill

Pat Isaac
02-09-2008, 08:31 AM
Bill, if you ever have the opportunity to try the R&F pigment sticks, I think you'll like them. They are very creamy and just like painting with oils only it is a stick. They are pricey and the colors are wonderful.

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-10-2008, 02:32 PM
I have looked at them frequently and, I admit, coveted (sp??) them. I recently ran across a thread by you regarding the OPS and Oil Sticks which I found very interesting. While some make much ado about the distinction between "soft" pastels vs. OPs, it seems that day by day the line between media types gets dimmer and dimmer. Oil Bars, Oil Sticks, Extra Greasy Oil Pastels, OPs, Wax Pastels, Watersoluble Wax Pastels----Watersoluble "Soft" Pastels, creamy "soft" pastels, stiff "soft" pastels, hard "soft" pastels, pastel pencils, Oil pencils, and on and on and on.

I understand people's preference for various media and even brands, but even in OPs, while Holbein and Senns seem to be favorites, NeoPastels and Specialists have distinct values for certain types of rendering techniques. We should always, I think, include the caveat that an opinion of a particular brand (other than student vs. Artist grade) relates to our particular method of work. It seems to me that when we comment on brands we should try to include a statement about application methodology so others can evaluate if that product will be "best" for them. If they work in an entirely different style then what someone may say is "best" may turn out to be disappointing to them.

I really do want to try the oil bars sometimes. When you look at the price realistically, the volume of paint in the sticks is generally comparable to tube sizes of Oil Paints and the prices are really not very different from purchasing comparable sized tubes of oil paints. The "better" brands even seem to emphasize putting "ml" of content as well as dimensions on their oil sticks!

BTW, Pat, I joined the OPS the other day. I didn't realize how active you are in that as well. You and Jane must have a lot more energy than I do!!!

Bill

Pat Isaac
02-10-2008, 02:42 PM
Welcome to the OPS, Bill. I hope you enjoy it.
the worst case scenario that I have recently encountered was being told that no oil pastels were allowed to be submitted to a national juried show. This show is part of a well known arts organization of which I have been a member for a number of years. I have submitted OPs on several occasions and been accepted, so I was really shocked to see that in their prospectus this year. I wrote to them and they said that these sticks would probably be classified as oil paint!!! not in the pastel category. I wrote again and explained the properties of the OPs but heard no more. I dropped my membership..

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-10-2008, 03:00 PM
:eek: :eek:

Well, Pat, welcome to the "Salon de Refuses" and the company of artists like Manet, Monet, etc.

I know I'm not anything but a retired bio prof, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at your work and know that it is very good art! Some may like better than others, but that's true of any work in any art show anywhere, anytime.

Rejection, in this case, may be the highest form of flattery!

Now, where did I leave that Silverpoint again?????????? Darn those rebels and their graphite thingies; pencils I think they call them! Passing fad, won't last a century, tops!

:evil:
Bill

AnnieA
02-10-2008, 04:22 PM
marsias:

I think using the Colorfix primer is far more economical than purchasing the pre-made Colorfix paper. I did a rough calculation of how far my 250ml tub of primer has gone so far, and figure that so far I've covered roughly 453 sq. in. with it - and the tub still is a bit over halfway full. So a rough calculation (presuming I had used half the tub) says that the primer has cost me about 1 1/2 cents per square inch. The 11x14 Colorfix paper is 252 sq. in. and costs $6, which works out to just a little over 2 1/3 cents per sq. inch, significantly more.

So, $3.78 worth of the primer is needed to cover an 11x14 paper, as I calculate it. Of course, the one other difference to consider is that the pre-prepared paper comes with...paper! :D You'd have to figure in the cost of whatever support you use into the calculation. For me though, a relative beginner, this is irrelevant, because for my practice sketches I use just about any surface - gessoed cardboard scraps, junk mail cards, etc. - on which to apply the primer. So it really does provide a substantial savings for me. If you're like most artists, and have a huge supply of left over paper, it would also be a good way to use it up, still with a savings (watch out for thin paper that buckles though - I still haven't found a way to use Colorfix on Canson).

It also is possible that I've missed including in my calculation some of the work I did on surfaces that I primed with Colorfix primer, as I've had the tub for a while, and if so, there's even more savings to be had. I apply it with a brush and I really like the rich surface that results - scumbling the OP over the surface subtly picks up the striations left by brushmarks and can result in some beautiful textury things happening in the painting. I use the "Elephant" color, which is a versatile color, medium gray (slightly on the warm side). It can be toned with acrylic color, or lightened or darkened with a bit of white or black acrylic paint.

Bill: I've seen the Kama site before too, and also was curious about their Extra Greasy Oil Pastels. I don't recall now - are they really OPs (made with non-drying oil) or are they Oil Sticks? The skinning described makes me think it may be the latter - knowing the type of oil that's used to make them is what will clear that up. At any rate, Kama does appear to be a very informative site. Also, I remember a thread from a few months back in which someone (I'm afraid I don't recall the person's name) had developed a method for making OPs with oil paints. Pat and Jane, do you remember who that was?

I've also tried using the Utrecht primer with pumice, but don't really recommend it because the surface is really too toothy - the pumice they use isn't really very fine - although it might interest some artists and/or work well in particular cases. Perhaps Wendell would be interested. Surfaces prepared with it really do use a lot of OP! It also seems like the individual flecks of pumice are somewhat spread out in the primer - making the surface a little odd, unless lots of layers are applied.

Interesting discussion - even the "OT" parts. :)

Pat Isaac
02-10-2008, 04:38 PM
Here is the thread about making OPs from oil paints.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459945&highlight=making+oil+pastels

Pat

Scarefishcrow
02-10-2008, 05:57 PM
AnnieA

Pat pointed you to the thread.

Jane correctly pointed out earlier that the Kama EGOPs do form a skin and so they state on their site. While Jane also points out that the site can be confusing, they supply many tips, recipes and demonstration sequences on everything from how to "tube" your paint to haw to make Oil and Watercolor paints from dry pigments. Clearly, they sell supplies, but it is interesting info. You can download their catalog in PDF format and it is a rather ecclectic assortment of things. If nothing else, it is interesting to see relative costs of various types of pigments, etc. They also sell an interesting sounding product that is essentially a water based proprietary pigment suspension that circumvents the making of a paste and allows you to create custom colors, in various strengths or tones, by simply adding drops of this suspension to something like an acrylic polymer base you can purchase.

They might be open to responding to questions on suggested formulae since they are primarily in the business of supplying the raw materials to make finished media and not the finished media, for the most part!

Someone should give that a whirl (especially if you happen to also be fluent in french, even though their site can be viewed in either language.) I think they might be responsive. They even feature comments by an artist that has worked with them and gives his email address, if I remember correctly.

I'm hoping Wendell is listening in and has some ideas regarding making Oil Bars as well as possibly OPs from oil paints. This seems like it should be even more doable and could be really useful.



Bill

Paulafv
02-10-2008, 06:45 PM
Light blue Colorfix is a good choice, because you can change the color by adding acrylic or watercolor to it and have a wonderful background for most paintings you want to do. By itself, it looks lovely. I apply with sponge brushes.

Peiwend
02-10-2008, 07:48 PM
Several years ago, when teaching scenic painting in Montreal, one of my students mentioned an artist friend of hers who had started making and selling paints. A few days ago I went to Bill's link, Kama Pigments, and the address seemed familiar and that long ago memory came back. I also first found the website difficult to use. Then I noticed the "francais" sign. Since I speak French I switched over. Sometimes, what seems confusing in one language is perfectly logical in another. They also have a link in the easel section to another site in the Hudson Valley (not far from Montreal) that sells the same products in the U.S.. Since three paintings of mine were sold last week, I ordered the large set of the oil pastels as well as an oilstick and some oil paints to try. I had also been looking for a Canadian source for thick pure Belgian linen which they have. A very pleasant surprise was that the shipping and handling came to only $5.10. Given a choice and assuming the quality is comparable, I prefer to buy from small artist-owned companies. If you wish I will start a thread and let you know about the oil pastels as soon as they arrive.

The oil pastels I made from oil paints are still good and no skin has formed. Individually the colours are good but inconsistent in use.

Bill, since I do oil paintings, I don't have a great need for oil sticks but you could try making some... please.

As for the colours of Colourfix paper my favorite is Soft Umber.

_________________________Wendell

Peiwend
02-11-2008, 12:17 AM
For anyone interested, the U.S. affiliate of Kama Pigments is...

www.pigmentsplus.com

_______________________Wendell

Scarefishcrow
02-11-2008, 01:56 AM
Wendell-
Great site. Did you watch the video clips??? Thanks for the link.

Bill

wabbitt
02-11-2008, 02:38 AM
Hi Marsias...
I'm dealing with a bit of jet lag, so I couldn't follow the thread after it got off topic and back and (shrugs shoulders) whatever....

In my experience, a small housepainting brush will cover a surface with primer but you will have ridges from the brush strokes. I've heard you must sand these down if they bother you. I still got brush strokes when I thinned the primer.

So I went to a 3" fuzzy brush roller and was quite happy until the old roller fell apart. I worked out a method of using a spray bottle of distilled water in one hand and roller in the other. I got a rough tooth from it and I only used one layer.

I went to the hardware store and replaced my fuzzy roller with a 3" foam roller. I was surprised that it provides a smoother surface, almost like the papers you would buy ready-made, and absorbs less primer. I am quite happy with this now.

I can't tell you how many papers you can cover because I have had it for almost two years and used it on many different sizes, lately 18:x24" sizes. I did want to mention that the Liquitex Clear Gesso provides a tooth almost identical to the Art Spectrum Clear (color) Pastel Primer. So if you have a hard time finding the Art Spectrum, maybe the Liquitex can give you the same surface if you can find it any easier. I like to lay down a layer of acrylic color and follow with clear primer before it dries.

Pat Isaac
02-11-2008, 08:11 AM
Thanks so much for that link, Wendell. It is very informative.

Pat

marsias
02-19-2008, 12:40 PM
Hello.

I have received the art spectrum primer.

i though the "Clear" primer was transparend but the primer is white in color :confused:

Must i wait that the primer becomes dry and than will be transparend?

I have applied the primer for test propose in a piece of paper, 1 coat.

Is difficult to archive a homogenous surface.

In the use description mentioned than i can thin the primer with water to have a smoother surface it is true?

nico

Pat Isaac
02-19-2008, 03:41 PM
I am not sure about the clear primer as I have never used it. Did it dry colorless?
What are you applying the primer with?
Yes, you may add some water to the brush or roller. You will probably need more coats though.

Pat

wabbitt
02-19-2008, 03:59 PM
The "clear" primer is supposed to be transparent, but it is not totally clear. It will look like a cloud over your color. Here's an example in my blog: http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-QuCZBLUzbqjgo4hpldExgD.EYPuA?tag=experiments I've forgotten where I posted this on wetcanvas.

This is why I apply over wet acrylic wash, then it mixes with the acrylic color without getting that cloudy look. As I said previously, I have a roller in one hand and spray bottle in the other to get a thin smooth surface.

marsias
02-19-2008, 04:04 PM
Hello pat.

first the primer is white after applied to paper.

After 2 hours the primer becomes colorless but not FULL colorless, they are white strokes overall on paper from the brush...(this are the positions where the brush have left more primer on paper)

I dont know if after additional 2 hours becomes fully transparent ..i will see.

The paper Fabiano(200 grm) does not buckle after 1 coat of primer.

nico

Pat Isaac
02-19-2008, 04:17 PM
I use a foam roller to apply my primer, which I think gives a smoother surface.

Pat

marsias
02-20-2008, 08:02 AM
Hello Pat.

After about 20 hours, i don't see any "improvement" to colorless.
The White strokers overall remains.

I think the primer is good for you work(because you cover the whole paper with colors) not for me, i left many background color to show up.

nico

Pat Isaac
02-20-2008, 08:57 AM
I/m sorry it didn't work for you, Nico. I had never used the clear. Sometime you might want to try Liquitex clear gesso. This I have tried and it is transparent and leaves a slightly sanded surface.

Pat

johndill01
02-24-2008, 10:34 PM
This is an excellent link from soft pastel artist Leigh Rust, showing his method of preparing a surface with Art Sprectrum Colourfix primer. Worth a few minutes of time.

http://wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478809

John

marsias
03-04-2008, 06:50 AM
Hello.

Can i use turpentine to Blend the colors over the primer or destroy turpentine the primer?

nico

Pat Isaac
03-04-2008, 07:16 AM
Hi Nico, The turpentine will not harm the primer. I have washed whole paintings out and the primer was just fine.

Pat