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happypaddler
10-26-2007, 10:13 PM
OMG - I did not think that I would ever feel compulsed to paint a flower but my 11 year old granddaughter took these and more photos of one of her grandmother's (Debbie's) dahlias and I just have to paint one of them. The photos look like paintings so how hard can it be.:D I am off to the learning zone but where do I begin this? What colours do I use?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2007/92360-PA210047b_wc.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2007/92360-PA210059_wc.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2007/92360-PA210061_wc.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Oct-2007/92360-PA210066_wc.JPG

Oh and these are not cropped. They are as taken by Bailey.:clap:

jaytee
10-26-2007, 10:25 PM
John.. what a talented young photogrpaher Bailey is :)

... First Id chose which one.. I favour NO 3 for its range of values and portrait format though 4 is nice too :)

Then I'd go find Char's classes !!!

Then I'd have a stiff drink.....

happypaddler
10-26-2007, 11:21 PM
Jaytee :lol: The nice thing about three and four are the lack of background. However after a double Drambuie and a read of Char's macro floral theory I am still very nervous. Maybe a second double will help.:p

yahooserious
10-26-2007, 11:28 PM
Maybe a second double will help.:p

:D

laudesan
10-27-2007, 03:19 AM
Very talented granddaughter.. Beautiful pics I too really like 3 and 4..

A tip :- when painting with yellow and I see it in your pics, paint it on first. If you paint it on top of other colours it dulls them..

I see Magenta, Azo Yellow, New Gamboge at a quick glance....


Have fun

:wave:

Roun2it
10-27-2007, 03:38 AM
Advise ....................

Put all of these to one side for a little while, if you have never painted a flower before you will find glazing and loosing edges in small spaces very difficult and confusing. To me I would start simple the photos here are so, so complicated and the old saying of walk before you run comes to mind.

Rod's lesson on the Magnolia is excellent SeeHere
(http://www.wetcanvas.com/ArtSchool/Watercolors/RodWebb/Magnolias/)
Anything by Sandy1 will teach you about glazing Pink Rose (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163687&pp=15)

And you have already found Char's Macro Lesson.

So my advice, try one of these first, the skills you develop will stand you in good stead for tackling that complicated set of pictures.

laudesan
10-27-2007, 04:53 AM
Here (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149935) is a Gerbera Daisy wip that might interest you too..

Did you join in the Mono-Challenge? It is always a great idea to paint a smaller practice painting in monochrome first. These paintings look awesome in their own right and look terrific in a frame or make wonderful gifts..:)

Rods Onion Demo (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/138/96/) is a great lesson in Glazing too..

:thumbsup:

painterbear
10-27-2007, 05:57 AM
John,
Your Granddaughter has a wonderful eye and skill in using the camera. If she took these at age 11, imagine what she will be doing in the future. :wow:

You've already had wonderful advice from others. All I can say is forget that it is a flower and paint the shapes and tones you see. When you finish, it will look like a flower. :D

Sylvia

Yorky
10-27-2007, 06:26 AM
You have has all the advice John, now go for it!

I prefer the fourth one.

Doug

madmum
10-27-2007, 07:43 AM
Gorgeous photos John!!!! Bailey is remarkably talented for her age :)

Here's what I would do. I'd up the contrast and saturation a little like this:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Oct-2007/10535-Baileys-Dahlia.jpg

Then choose colours - my own choice would be gamboge (warm yellow, and transparent), Quin. rose (or permanent rose) with a touch of ultramarine added for the deepest shades.

Work on individual petals, but always think about the edges, do you want a hard edge or a soft edge, let colours run into the next petal where you want softer edges.

Now go for it!

Ruth

happypaddler
10-27-2007, 10:39 AM
Emilie - Wasn't nervous any more but couldn't paint either. :lol: Now I am nervous again and tempted to reach for the Drambuie. I think I see a pattern forming.:D

JJ - Thanks. I forgot about yellow not going on top and tried to brighten up my last painting by putting some on top. It didn't work of course and I didn't figure out why until you reminded me. :o Your links are great too. The daisy is almost the right colours.

Thanks Kev. I checked out those demos and they are a big help. I will play with this a lot first because I am debating using pours for the first layers and rubbing out, the way that Roland Roycraft does it, but that is a lot of petals to be rubbing out.

Sylvia - Bailey is very talented. She loves drawing and painting too but she struggles with watercolours. She already consistently takes far better pictures than I do. One shape/petal at a time. This may take a while. :eek:

Thanks Doug I think I like the fourth one too but I have another that will allow a bit of background.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Oct-2007/92360-PA210038_wc.JPG

Ruth - Thanks. Upping the contrast and saturation will help a lot but I want to be careful that I don't lost that delicate almost transluscent look of the petals. Those were the colours that I was thinking so you have upped my confidence level as to colour.

painterbear
10-27-2007, 10:42 AM
John,
I think starting with a pour is a great idea, but I don't like the rubbing out that Roycroft recommends. You can start your pour with your lightest tones and then use regular washes and negative painting to bring the other petals to the fore.

Give it a little sample try on a scrap piece of paper and see how you like it.

Sylvia

jaytee
10-27-2007, 11:37 AM
John ..... there are some yellows that used on top give a glow, not deaden...... Quin gold is one.....I love it as a glowing linking wash and now Ruth has suggested gamboge I'm off to break into the tube I'm sure I must have somewhere :)

mgiedd
10-29-2007, 02:22 PM
WOW that fourth photo is awesome. Are you going to do this as a WIP John?

Rose Queen
10-29-2007, 03:59 PM
Don't forget we have a new Floral/Botanical forum; find it using the Forum Jump box at the bottom of the page!



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CharM
10-29-2007, 04:45 PM
OhWowOhWowOhWowOhWow!!! I LOVE, Love, love these photos!!! Your young granddaughter is really talented!!!

For a first time flower painter, this will definitely be a challenge... but you can overcome it and absolutely shine... I know it...

Firstly, once you decide which image you want to paint, study it for awhile. Notice which petals curl, their direction and the shadows. Pay attention to the form of each of your petals.

For an image like this, I would trace it. Trying to draw this would only end in frustration because there are SO MANY petals... hand drawing it really doesn't *buy* you anything...

Be mindful of your light source... draw little arrows in the outside margins of your paper if you have to...

Choose your palette. Paint value swatches of your chosen palette. I'm very serious about this. At this stage of planning, it's important to understand your pigments. This will help with your value study.

On a piece of scrap paper, practice your values. Draw out a few petals and paint them, ensuring that your values are spot on. Do grey scales of the image and your practice pieces.

Ok... now you're ready to start your painting... and it's just not that intimidating if you do it OPAT... One petal at a time... Each petal... EACH PETAL becomes its own little painting. Over the course of time, you will have done dozens of little paintings. BUT... you can do three or four little paintings during each session that you sit down...

If you've practiced your palette by doing your swatches and your values, you can paint OPAT with confidence, knowing that the whole image will have unity and harmony.

These images do not have many lost edges, so I really wouldn't worry about them too much. As you work, you can soften your edges with a bead of clean water on your brush just as you would with any other composition.

Your whitest whites are large enough that I wouldn't worry about masking them. However, if you feel more comfortable in protecting them, do so. Just remember that you will end up with some hard edges that will need to be softened. No biggy.

Finally... don't forget your quin gold... it adds that bit of luminesence you won't get with any other yellow... and you can add it last... :)

Oh... do this as a wip... it's amazing how wips will force you to keep going when you really want to give up...

(((John))) for tackling this!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Edit: Hey, John... have a look at this... I was able to finish it in just a couple of sessions and my process was exactly as I described above... Alicia's Gerber (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314666) was a LOT of fun to paint...

happypaddler
10-29-2007, 05:13 PM
Sylvia - Thanks I agree. I may do a yellow pour and then brush layers on top.

Jytee - I may also play with W&N transparent yellow. It is close to the same hue as new gamboge but is transparent instead of semi-transparent. I bought it for a class and haven't really tried it.

Marcia - A work in progress? Me? Painting a floral is way outside my comfort zone. This will be only my second. I am only painting it because Bailey's photo just calls out to be painted. I may post from time to time looking for advice as I go. At this point I am just playing with colours and methods.

Diana - Thanks. If I am happy with it I may just post it there.

Char - We almost cross posted.

Wow now I feel really confident:lol:

I am pretty much working through the process just as you described it. I am thinking transparent yellow instead of quin gold. It is one of the pigments used in quin gold (hue). I will do some testing with both. The new gamboge, perm rose and FUB seemed to be the perfect colour except the shadows were a bit muddy. Transparent yellow or more water may fix that.

After your encouragement if I do a WIP and blow it no newbie will ever try a floral here again. They will all lose faith in you.:eek: :lol:

happypaddler
10-29-2007, 05:17 PM
Char - I missed your edit. You painted Alicia'a Gerber in two sessions?:eek: :eek: :eek: It's amazing. I couldn't paint that in a lifetime.

Thanks for the hug. I really need it now.:lol:

CharM
10-29-2007, 05:26 PM
*Wagging finger* in your direction!!! YES, YOU CAN!!! Please, please trust me here... I've taught a LOT of people to paint macros... and they've been so beautiful... WHY? Confidence...

Be confident... When you paint OPAT, you have the confidence to paint ONE SMALL area... just a tiny bit of the whole. If you screw that up, you've ONLY screwed up one tiny bit of the whole!!! And you won't...

Why not try some ultramarine violet for your shadows... it's a little warmer. Also, some burnt sienna... just a thought...

Only use the quin gold sparingly at the end... that will add your *umphhh*... :)

Laura D
10-30-2007, 06:41 PM
Jytee - I may also play with W&N transparent yellow. It is close to the same hue as new gamboge but is transparent instead of semi-transparent. I bought it for a class and haven't really tried it.

Be sure to play with this one on scrap paper. I'm finding that it is a VERY strong color. When it's on the palette and mixed with another color it looks a lot like there is enough of the other color, but in reality once that mix hits the paper it is still very yellow.

I'd love to paint one of these too. Wanna do a paintalong?

olliewood0702
10-30-2007, 11:32 PM
What simply GORGEOUS ref pics Bailey has taken. Scrumptious color in these, light & shadow too. If you don't paint one I WILL!! WOW....pulling up a seat John.....

Violetta
10-31-2007, 09:57 AM
John - Your reference photos are nothing short of spectacular! I look forward to seeing your painting develop.

happypaddler
10-31-2007, 10:45 AM
I haven't run away. Just spent yesterday dealing with sick family members.

Char - I am perfectly capable of screwing up 500 little pieces all at once. :lol: I like your Ultramarine violet idea I need to play a bit more with it. It just looks a bit grey when put on top of the rose and yellow.

Laura - I did some testing and I agree that the transparent yellow is way too strong. I like to mix my colours on my paper and other colours don't seem to flow well when mixed with it. FUB in particular just sat there when floated in. I think that I have settled on the new gamboge again.

Darla - These photos are the only reason that I am tempted to paint a floral.:D I have just posted them to the RIL if your or anyone else wants to paint one too. You will likely be much faster than me.

Judyth - Thanks.

I have been playing with colours and I think that I have decided on new gamboge, permanent rose and FUB but I may switch ultramarine violet for the blue. I am now debating a half sheet or a quarter sheet. I want to do a half sheet in case this works but I find that big sheet of white paper even more intimidating. I hear ya Char "Have confidence". That is easy for the master of floral painting to say.

This is my test sheet. The new gamboge is in the circle the transparent yellow in the square.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2007/92360-test_sheet.JPG

I have used a slick little program called Tile Print to print off six black and white pages that can be taped together so make a half sheet size picture that can be traced.

happypaddler
10-31-2007, 12:25 PM
Here is the Tile Print printout after tracing. I use a pen to trace because it gives me a narrow line and I can tell on my print what lines I have traced.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2007/92360-Tile_print_printout_wc.JPG

Excuse the mess of my studio but that is the way that I work and Debbie has unsuccessfully tried to change that for 15 years now.

Here is my tracing on a piece of 140 lb Arches bright white cold pressed paper. Because this is a light value painting I will have to lighten my lines before I start to paint.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2007/92360-Tracing_wc.JPG

Now the fun begins:eek: Oh yeh. Sorry Char. Now the fun begins :D

painterbear
10-31-2007, 01:04 PM
John,
:thumbsup: for what you've done so far. Have you been eavesdropping on my Monday art class? Your sample sheet of the three colors you've chosen is exactly what Nita has been showing us and telling us to do before starting a painting. She also blends the three tones wet into wet so we can see the variety of colors we can come up with. (By that I mean she would blend two of the colors to create a third, then she might mix them all to create a gray, etc.) She has also been encouraging us to use a limited palette like you've selected. :D

I like the large size you are using for your painting. I think you will find that makes it easier to paint the lovely flower rather than harder.

To lift my tracing lines, I use my kneaded eraser to blot (not rub) all the lines. It lifts off any excess graphite very nicely without damaging the fibers in the paper. It still leaves a faint line though for you to follow as you paint.

Looking forward to your next step. Think I'll give you my Merit point for today for your hard work so far and for stepping out of your comfort zone to paint a flower. :D

Sylvia

happypaddler
10-31-2007, 02:27 PM
Wow! Thanks Sylvia. I guess there is no turning back now.:eek:

I always do a test piece with some wet in wet. As I said earlier I mix most of my colours on my paper and sometimes two or three colours will give me the hue that I want but they don't react well when mixed. The transparent yellow was a problem for me because it didn't seem to mingle with the FUB or perm rose and to make maters worse it stopped them from flowing too.

I felt it important to limit my pallet for this otherwise painting it OPAT would be tough. I would never get the petals looking as if they belonged in the same garden never mind on the same flower:D

I still wasn't sure about my colours so I did one more test piece. I need all the confidence that I can get for this one.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/31-Oct-2007/92360-final_test_wc.JPG

This might just work.:rolleyes: I layered this. I wet one petal and then I painted the yellow. I then dried it with a blow drier and put a light wash of permanent rose on to give me the orange. I quickly wiped out the strip in the center go let some of the yellow show through. I dried that and then put in the darker rose.

The question now is do I completely paint one petal at a time or do I put all the yellow on every petal and then the rose on every petal and then go in with the darker rose and violet or blue. I am thinking all the yellow then the rose washes so that it is easier to keep in mind my light source and the value transitions. Off to ponder and paint.

Laura D
10-31-2007, 04:32 PM
Looking great so far. Your process is a good one. You can paint more than one petal at a time as long as they aren't adjacent to each other... while you are waiting for the wash to dry on one you can skip to another similar petal and do the wash there, etc. That way you have cohesive methods in different areas, keeps every petal on the same flower!

happypaddler
11-01-2007, 11:45 AM
For those that want to paint along the pictures are in the RIL.

Picture 3
http://www.wetcanvas.com/RefLib/showphoto.php?photo=80369&cat=569
Picture 4
http://www.wetcanvas.com/RefLib/showphoto.php?photo=80369&cat=569

Thanks Laura. I am hoping that using only three colours will make it easy.

I did some painting last night but had to stop when trick or treaters started coming to the door. I did an initial new gamboge wash and the initial perm rose wash OPAT and found it painfull having all that white paper. Here is where I stopped for the night. I do need to be more carefull with my edges.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2007/92360-step_one_wc.JPG

I decided that I really wanted to lose all the white so I did a yellow wash OPAT. Looks like this.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2007/92360-step_two_wc.JPG

I know Char, finish one petal at a time. I am trying. Sort of.:o

Now that it is dry I will go in OPAT and do the initial rose wash to get my orange and lose most but hopefully not all of the yellow. Back in a while:D

Laura D
11-01-2007, 01:26 PM
Lookin' real good John! Thanks for sharing these wonderful photos. Know what you mean about halloween interuptions. Tried to do some work on outlining but was too distracted being Mama Bear with a funny honey pot. (Scared quite a few little bitty kids... oops!)

happypaddler
11-01-2007, 02:55 PM
Thanks Laura.

Char - I don't know how you do it. The Gerber daisy in two sessions:eek: I am going crazy with this and this is three sessions. I can't paint as long at a time as you. I start to rush it and need to walk away for a while.

I have started to paint petals OPAT. I have been using my blow dryer a lot because I have found that I prefer to work in one area and want to make sure that each petal and each layer of each petal is dry. The very orange petals are where I stirred up the yellow. I am fairly pleased except I can't seem to produce clean edges on the petals. Also I maybe should have listened to Char's advice (go figure) and used ultramarine violet instead of FUB. Oh well next time :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: As if.

Here is where I am now.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2007/92360-step_4.JPG

Critiques and helpfull advice are appreciated.

painterbear
11-01-2007, 04:29 PM
John,
You must be a fibber. This can't be the first flower you are painting. It is looking so very good! Keep doin' what'cher doin', it's really starting to take form.

I think the yellow underwash was a terrific idea! It's lending a glow to those peachy petals you are working on now. :D

I can't paint as long at a time as you. I start to rush it and need to walk away for a while. Oh, do I hear you talking. I can't paint for extended periods of time either. I do exactly what you do. Paint for a while, then walk away and read a few pages in my current book or peel some carrots for dinner or something. ;)

Sylvia

Violetta
11-01-2007, 04:33 PM
John - This is really looking good! What a wonderful first floral, a real challenge and you're meeting it very well. I really like your color mix. The petals glow with life and light. I'll keep watching and maybe down the road, I 'll try one too.

happypaddler
11-01-2007, 05:37 PM
Sylvia - Thanks. It is only a very small fib. I have painted two florals that I can remember. A rose in grade 8 art class which I believe my mum still has.:D and this trillium that I painted in a Brigitte Schreyer workshop more than ten years ago.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2007/92360-trillium_wc.JPG

Thanks Judyth. I am starting to get a bit sloppy now. I will have to go in with some rose and yellow at the end to match up the colours. I don't mind the perm rose by itself but some of the orange is a bit glaring.

Here is where I am now. I have a meeting tonight so this is it for today. That is probably a good thing because I haven't been focusing very well for the last while. Again, I don't know how you do it Char.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2007/92360-step5_wc.JPG

Are we having fun yet?:p

CharM
11-01-2007, 05:48 PM
It really IS looking beautiful, John...

I'm never intimidated by all that white paper, so OPAT works for me... I focus on each individual mini-painting and press forward. And it really does create crisper edges.

But, I think your edges are fine. These petals are not razor sharp in the first place, so their edges can be a little softer. Your colour is glowing... I feel that you do need to pump up the saturation in your reds... I wish that you'd kept some of the white petal tips, and increasing the intensity of your colour will solve that problem.

Because there is some red in the U. violet, I thought it might make a less dirty shadow for you... your shadows are looking good though...

Don't forget that you can use some burnt sienna in this...

Keep plugging away, you're making FABULOUS progress!

p.s. I have never painted for more than 20 minutes at a time. A *session* for me would probably include 2 or 3 20 minute intervals... :)

Yorky
11-01-2007, 05:56 PM
This is really good John. Listen to Char, she is the expert at this.

Doug

madmum
11-01-2007, 07:24 PM
John, keep doing whatever you're doing, your dahlia is looking wonderful already!!!!!

Ruth

jaytee
11-01-2007, 08:02 PM
John ...... to say I am impressed with your progress would be an understatement..... its looking wonderful :)

mhimeswc
11-01-2007, 08:16 PM
Wow! This is coming along GREAT! I love the colors you are getting too. I'm going to bookmark this so I make sure I don't miss the finish.

Michelle

laudesan
11-01-2007, 09:30 PM
Looking really really good John!!! You go my friend!!


:) JJ

happypaddler
11-02-2007, 12:36 AM
Thank you everyone for the support. I am starting to think that I should have listened to Kev and started with a daisy or something.

I will have to do some major glazing at the end. Char you burst my bubble. Only 20 minutes.:p I did keep some white tips but I just realized that the print that I am working from doesn't show them as well as the monitor. I should be working from the monitor and not the print. It will help when I go in with more red in the end.

I painted some more after my meeting tonight but I probably should have waited and started fresh in the morning. I am not displeased with this but I do see things that I should of/ could of done better. Here is where I am at now.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Nov-2007/92360-Step6_wc.JPG

Tomorrow and tomorrow.

Roun2it
11-02-2007, 05:43 AM
Thank you everyone for the support. I am starting to think that I should have listened to Kev and started with a daisy or something.



:wink2: ......:lol:

You're stuck with it now and we are expecting great things:lol:

You are doing great John, deep breaths now and concentrate. Don't forget to squint your eyes at the subject and get the tones coming through, it is the lost and found edges that will really make this sing, especially the 'lost' ones.

happypaddler
11-02-2007, 03:24 PM
Wow, this is taking a long time. I usually spend 4 or 5 hours on a painting not 4 or 5 days:eek: I have family chores that need doing so I may not get back to this until Monday.

I am enjoying doing this but I am finding that my painting style is changing as I paint and get more comfortable with it. I am getting bolder and looser.

Thanks Kev. You are right. I will need to take a very close look at those edges when I do my final washes. It is going to take some work at the end to unify the colours and shadows. Hopefully I can lost some edges then.

Here is were I am now. I adjusted the colour a bit to try to get the yellow toned down and more rose because it realy is more rosey. I can never seem to get the image quite right on my monitor.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2007/92360-Step_7_wc.JPG

Well?

Yorky
11-02-2007, 03:37 PM
Well, you have done the hard, complicated petals John, should be easy from now on ;)

Wonderfull intricate.

Doug

laudesan
11-02-2007, 05:58 PM
WOW! man this is coming along beautifully!!

JJ

Laura D
11-02-2007, 06:56 PM
Ain't it funny how these things keep getting in the way of painting? Sigh. Good tonal range, excellent color, contrast is coming along and you aren't noticiably cross-eyed! If it's not the photo I'd like to see higher highlights (read: pop-off-the-page), especially if this is a large piece. (Looks like a 1/4 sheet?)

happypaddler
11-02-2007, 07:31 PM
Doug and JJ - Thanks for the support. If I hadn't been getting feedback I may have given up on this long ago.

Laura - I am going cross eyed but the worst is now done. It is a half sheet so it is large. The highlights do stand out better IRL.

I managed to get some more painting in but I have my niece's 19th birthday party to go to so this will likely be it until Monday. I played with the image in photoshop so this is closer to the real thing.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2007/92360-step_8_wc.jpg

Where do I go from here?

Roun2it
11-03-2007, 03:49 AM
It's good you are putting it away for a while, it will give your brain time to rest and a chance to forget things.:D

I would suggest that you do put it away somewhere you can't see it. Then when you get it out next time you should view it from a mirror, it would be great if you could do this before looking at it without the mirror. This will help you work out any imperfections and technical problems.

From what I see at the moment it is looking great, it may be the photo but the blue looks like it is becoming a little invasive but that is easy to sort out with extra glazing.

happypaddler
11-04-2007, 12:10 AM
Kevin - I find that the opposite works for me. It is currently framed and hanging on my living room wall. If after two weeks I haven't found anything that bugs me to distraction I will put it away for a couple of weeks and then take a fresh look at it. Looking at it in the mirrow is a great idea and I may do just that in the morning. For now I am calling it finished unless someone has some good suggestions on how to improve it.

I have adjusted the colour a bit. This is much closer to the actual painting. It should still be a little more rose and less mauve but it is fairly close.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2007/92360-PB020027_4_wc.jpg

OPAT - Thanks you Char :thumbsup:

Laura D
11-04-2007, 12:47 AM
This is really great John! These photos show the highlights and colors much better. One thing I would do would be to part from the reference and spread the darks out towards the edge, like a fading bulls eye. (Soften some of the outer edges of the shadows too.)

A tip that really helped folks in the Macro Class was to carry the "bumps and valleys" across the cast shadow lines... IOW, there are as varied tones within the dark areas as well as the light.

CharM
11-04-2007, 01:46 AM
This is looking great, John...

You can neutralize your ultramarine with a wash or two of burnt sienna... you'll get rich shadows, with blue undertones, but with a deeper *brown* appearance. Try it on a piece of scrap paper... you'll love the effect.

I agree with you about the need for more saturated reds... go for it...

Then... increase the saturation of your yellows on the left...

It will appear that your light is coming from the left and gradually getting darker as you move right...

You are SO almost finished... don't stop now... (sorry, Kev... I think he should keep going...)

OPAT really does work... When I was still working, painting OPAT allowed me to finish several *paintings* each evening... I felt good about myself and my art... Now, I do it from habit and find it less frustrating... and, for some reason, I don't get *lost* in the bigger picture...

Regardless... Your granddaughter (lest we forget the focus of this work) will be thrilled with what you've painted... I hope you've told her that we think she's some special... a talent in her own right...

Yorky
11-04-2007, 04:39 AM
It's looking great John, but as Char says the colours could be a little more intense.

Doug

happypaddler
11-04-2007, 01:14 PM
Laura - Thanks. You are right in that I do have my darks all in the center and I do need to move some out especially to the lower right side.

Char - I think that you and Kev do agree that I should keep going. He just thinks that if I rethink it after a couple of weeks it will be obvious to me too . The problem is that I am okay with it the way it is and after all this work I am afraid of screwing it up.

Burnt Sienna is one of my favourite colours, especially with FUB to make blacks but are you sure that it will work with these colours? I will do some tests. I suspect that as usual you are correct. IRL the yellows and reds are a bit more intense. They show perfectly on my laptop but more blue and greyed on the monitor. Intense is way outside my comfort zone. I usually paint with a soft style but I am thinking of going for it on this one.

Doug - It seems unanimous. I need to be strong and go boldly forward.:D

Mum - Help me. I am afraid.

CharM
11-04-2007, 02:42 PM
Mother Nature paints our world with such intensity that it sucks the breath from our lungs... think about it... :)

Laura D
11-04-2007, 10:59 PM
Intense is way outside my comfort zone. I usually paint with a soft style but I am thinking of going for it on this one.
Mum - Help me. I am afraid.

I went through the same thing with the peony! Several times I got ready to paint, looked at the palette and had to walk away. :rolleyes: Then I went to a demo by Kay Barnes. She said something that made a lot of sense in several situations. The jist of it was when you are first putting pigment on wet-in-wet, scare yourself! :D

Here's a poke in the ribs... do it! :eek:

happypaddler
11-04-2007, 11:54 PM
Thanks Laura. It is late so I am not touching the painting tonight but I just went into my studio and threw some FUB and Burnt Sienna on my test piece and actually liked the result. I then added some more rose and yellow and all of a sudden it was someone elses great litle test piece :lol:

I have decided not to be just okay with this. I intend to go back at it tomorrow so we will see where it leads me. Thanks for the poke. BTW your peonie is one of my all time favourite florals.:thumbsup:

happypaddler
11-05-2007, 03:31 PM
This is now on the verge of becoming overworked. The center is starting to get a bit muddy and the rest is getting sloppy looking. I have added some darks and some burnt sienna to warm up some of the shadows.

I am calling it finished unless something jumps out at me over the next couple of weeks. Thank you everyone for taking the time to give me your support, feedback and suggestions. I apprectiate it immensely.:D I am improving as a painter and it is because of the three Ps and the wet canvas community. Thanks again everyone.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2007/92360-Dahlia_finishedwc.JPG

:wave:

Yorky
11-05-2007, 04:00 PM
Bravo John, how about a photo with you on so we can judge the scale?

Doug

happypaddler
11-05-2007, 04:32 PM
Thanks Doug. This photo was done very quickly with me holding the camera. The colour is way off and please ignore the very inappropriate for this painting frame but it is the only one I have left.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2007/92360-me_and_dahlia.jpeg

Yorky
11-05-2007, 04:34 PM
Looks great John - will be really impressive with a wider mount.

Doug

painterbear
11-05-2007, 05:11 PM
John,
I think this is beautiful. You really can't claim not to be able to paint florals...or macros anymore! You've passed your baptism by fire!

I agree with Doug that a lovely wide double mat will really make this shine!

Great job on the WIP, now I hope you'll post the finished painting in the Gallery.

Sylvia

triumph
11-05-2007, 05:12 PM
Having done some macro florals, I've found that looking and dealing with the entire image as one piece at the outset is mind-numbing! Sooo..deal with each petal at a time (or a couple). Wet each one and flow in some color (try two colors at once, keeping the darker value in the middle of the petal (to make a convincing depression/fold in that area. Or put the darker value at the edge where it will overlap the next petal. Color choice is yours, but getting inventive with it is the fun part! Susie

Laura D
11-05-2007, 08:09 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: It's beautiful!!! I love it and it definately deserves a good (wide mat) presentation. Reach around and pat yourself on the back! :thumbsup:

BTW your peonie is one of my all time favourite florals.:thumbsup:

Wow, really? Thank you so much! This is the closest to a blush smily I can find... :heart: :D

Violetta
11-05-2007, 09:34 PM
FANTABULOUS!!!!!! John!!!!! Really beautiful floral. :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

laudesan
11-05-2007, 11:29 PM
John this is a beautiful painting you did real good my friend.. Put a 4" matt all around it and it will look even more awesome..:)

Cheers JJ