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jsr88
06-02-2002, 11:43 AM
Hi everyone...
Been a while since I've posted. I've been out in my beloved garden, planting flowers and veggies and talking them into staying alive. ;)

Since they only grow at a given rate, there's not much else I can do except take pictures of them. :D

Oh...and of course play with the graphic editors to see what I make out of the "not so good" ones.

Here's a study of techniques that might interest some of our members.

#1
This is the plant that the photos below were taken of.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jun-2002/jsr-2232-plant.jpg

#2
Here's a section of one of the photos I took of this Double Peach Daylily....pretty, but very bland. (AND I'm not to happy with the graininess of the photo.)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jun-2002/jsr-2232-section1.jpg

#3
In the next version of the photo I used levels to pump up the colors, then sharpened the image (both manipulations done in Jasc's PaintShop Pro ver 7)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jun-2002/jsr-2232-section2.jpg

#4
In this version (still using PSP v7) I applied the Simplifier One filter from Buzz Pro very lightly. Then sharpened the image.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jun-2002/jsr-2232-section3.jpg

#5
This is the full photo and shows the manipulation I like best (It's MUCH in the unscaled version.) It's done entirely with PaintShop Pro (V7).
1- Colors > Adjust > Levels to achieve the colors I wanted
2- Effects > Edges > Edge preserving smooth
3- Resize for WC
4- Sharpen
5- Image > Add borders
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jun-2002/jsr_2232-03-wc.jpg

I was very pleased with the final result of this image, both the photo and manipulated image. I was glad that I could do a creative manipulation without having to use Buzz Pro or Photo Shop. (However, I'll probably put the image back through PS7 to add a sandstone texture...I still haven't managed to get PSP to behave well for textures. ;) )

DraigAthar
06-02-2002, 11:50 AM
These are lovely. It's very interesting to see the various images in progress, too. Thanks for sharing!

Amy

4Paws
06-02-2002, 12:01 PM
Great finished picture :-) I'm still kind of new here and somehow got the impression editing pics. is tabu. Is there a preference or rule to this? It also seems the better the equipment the less editing is that the case?

Any thoughts?

4Paws :)

jsr88
06-02-2002, 12:12 PM
Thanks Amy...I'm like you, I also like to see examples of the manipulation process along with a few notes as to which software was used, what effects or filters were applied, and even why the photographer/editor used the techniques they used.

4Paws...welcome aboard the WetCanvas site. It's wonderful here! So many things to take in, and so many FANTASTIC people.

Editing photos is NOT a taboo...at least not in THIS forum. I felt the same way when I first arrived here a few months ago. I was very uneasy about posting my edited and manipulated images. I felt it wasn't "real" photograpy if I had to change it in any way from what came out of the camera. DUH!

Some very GOOD friends here at WC set me straight on that issue quite quickly! :D And I'm glad they did. They told me that photograhy has ALWAYS been a manipulated art and I suppose when you really look at what happens in the physical darkroom, they absolutely correct! (Shoot, it hasn't been all that long ago - a couple of weeks - that I thought using a BACKDROP was "cheating!")

By all means, join in...show us your photos manipulated or SOOTC (straight out of the camera). If you have any questions about any of us have achieved a "look" feel free to ask.

jsr88
06-02-2002, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by 4Paws
Great finished picture :-) I'm still kind of new here and somehow got the impression editing pics. is tabu. Is there a preference or rule to this? It also seems the better the equipment the less editing is that the case?

Any thoughts?

4Paws :)

Sorry, got carried away in that last post and forgot to answer the rest of your questions. :D

As to rules and preferences...I don't think we abide by ANY of those. ;)

Better equipment = Less editing?
I think LUCK is probably an excellent thing to have on our side, no matter which equipment we use. :D But it does stand to reason that we are definitely going to be much more satisfied with the results of original photo when they are taken with "better" equipment. I know there are times I wish I'd purchased something different than the Sony Mavica MVC-F95 I'm now using. But even my Mavica is a FAR cry from the results I got from my first Polaroid digital. The pictures from THAT camera were totally atrocious...and no amount of editing could have saved ANY of those images. :D

Anthony Carter
06-02-2002, 01:02 PM
I really like the final result. Great work. Thanks for posting the steps.

DraigAthar
06-02-2002, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by jsr88

Better equipment = Less editing?
I think LUCK is probably an excellent thing to have on our side, no matter which equipment we use. :D But it does stand to reason that we are definitely going to be much more satisfied with the results of original photo when they are taken with "better" equipment. :D

To a certain extent, I'll agree with this. Having decent equipment will go a long way toward improving the quality of your photographs. But I've seen people make the mistake before of assuming that expensive cameras are all you need to be a good photographer. If you look at it the other way ... a good photographer will be able to take decent photos even with less-than-ideal equipment. A good photographer might be totally unhappy with the results from poor equipment, lol, but they'll still be able to work with it.

That said, I'm still all for digital manipulation of photos. I don't know how to do much of it myself, mind you, which is why all of my photos that I post are pretty much straight from the camera (sometimes cropped and always resized, but that's it usually). But if I had the software and knew how to use it, I'd probably be spending WAY too much time tweaking photos. :)

Amy

devbrain
06-02-2002, 01:22 PM
I try not to digitally edit any of my photos for two reasons.

1) If I endevour not to, then I find myself spending more time trying to get it 'right' first time around.

2) If I end up editing them, I generally go overboard and ruin it.

As geckonia pointed out in my structured critique post (thanks!) I also have a habit of not editing when I should have. Definitely something I need to spend a little more time on.

geckonia
06-02-2002, 01:57 PM
Thanks, Dave. That was kind of you. Julie Baby! THANKS!!!! What a cool demo. I LOVE the final version!!!!. OK, do you think there is an "edge preserve smooth" equivalent in PS7? Is that the only step that really is different in PSP? Do I need PSP to do this myself? It's totally stunning! I usually don't manipulate my macro flowers shots, but this technique is one I would use.

RATE THIS THREAD!

4Paws
06-02-2002, 02:06 PM
4Paws...welcome aboard the WetCanvas site. It's wonderful here! So many things to take in, and so many FANTASTIC people.

Thanks jsr88, actually without editing my photos I would have noting to show... that's why I asked. And showing some of the before pics. would be too embarrassing. lol...
I have been noticing the luck thing more and more too, lol.

The people are great here I agree :-)


If you look at it the other way ... a good photographer will be able to take decent photos even with less-than-ideal equipment. A good photographer might be totally unhappy with the results from poor equipment, lol, but they'll still be able to work with it.

I agree and it's nice to hear Amy :-)
And as far as editing photos try IrfanView at http://www.ryansimmons.com/users/irfanview
It's free and a very small, simple, quick photo editing software. Very nice for simple manipulations, gamma, color, sharpening and some simple effects too. Also when I started editing photos at first it would take hours to do one picture, but once I got used to the order of adjustments it's a snap.

And Dave, if I get stuck on editing the perfect picture, I like to save in versions. This way you come back to them and pick the one that seems the least "overboard" or start from scratch with the original.

4Paws :)

jsr88
06-02-2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by geckonia
...
Julie Baby! THANKS!!!! What a cool demo. I LOVE the final version!!!!. OK, do you think there is an "edge preserve smooth" equivalent in PS7? Is that the only step that really is different in PSP? Do I need PSP to do this myself? It's totally stunning! I usually don't manipulate my macro flowers shots, but this technique is one I would use.

RATE THIS THREAD!

Geck...thank YOU! :D
There is no single command in PS7 that is equal to the "edge preserving smooth." PS7 users would have to use the Filter > Noise > Median filter combined with the Filter > Sharpen > Unsharp Mask to simulate the effect of the daylily result.

I took the #2 image above and put it through PS7. Doing the following:
1- Levels (Input 0/0.68/189)
2- Noise > Median (2 pixel radius)
3- Filter > Sharpen > Sharpen edges
4- Readjusted Levels (Input 0/0.77/217)
5- Blur > Blur (Gausian might have worked better.)
6- Filter > Sharpen > Sharpen Edges
7- Filter > Sharpen > Sharpen More
8- Filter > Sharpen > Sharpen Edges

Here's the results of using those steps.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jun-2002/jsr-2232-section1-ps7-b.jpg

For comparison, here's a section cropped from the final version in the original post.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Jun-2002/jsr-2232-03-wc-crop.jpg

After working through the previous steps, I tried the process again using the median filter (set at 2 pixels) then playing with the settings on the PS7 unsharp mask. I got about the same results, but neither produced the softness that was achieved in a very few steps using the PSP v7 software.

For simplicity, I still find myself using the PSP v7 software. But for true creativity, PhotoShop gets opened more often. ;)

geckonia
06-02-2002, 04:05 PM
Well, your results with PSP are very impressive. Thanks for spelling it all out for me! I wish I could try it...looks so creamy-dreamy.

jsr88
06-02-2002, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by geckonia
Well, your results with PSP are very impressive. Thanks for spelling it all out for me! I wish I could try it...looks so creamy-dreamy.

Yeah...sorta reminds me of a "dreamcicle" too.
:D
You CAN try it. Go to http://www.jasc.com and download the evaluation version. I'm not sure how long they allow you to try the software but, unlike Adobe PhotoShop, they allow you to use all the features...at least they did last time I tried it. (Oh, it's 31.6 megs, in case download size makes a difference.)

geckonia
06-02-2002, 04:14 PM
I will do that! Thanks Julile. Maybe they honor competitive upgrades.

Darn...just went there...I can't use it! :crying: I'm on a mac.....waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

jsr88
06-02-2002, 04:24 PM
:crying:
:crying:
:crying:
I'm sorry Geck, I forgot about that. I always make the mistake of aSSuME-ing that everyone is on a PC. I'm working on another method of getting PS7 to do the edge preserving smooth for you right now. Hang on! I'm trying! :D

in8art
06-02-2002, 09:38 PM
Great Job Julie

I am going to have to try that edge preserving smooth.
The finished image is awesome.

Ivyleaf
06-03-2002, 02:16 AM
Wow, great progress shots and details!!

:) :) :)
Ivy

joemajury
06-03-2002, 04:21 AM
A GREAT demo.
I LOVE step by steps ( I need them ).
This has turned a nice flower into a work of art..

Joe
;) ;)

jsr88
06-03-2002, 11:07 AM
Thank you Reed, Ivy, and Joe...
And THANKS EVERYONE who rated the thread. The 5 Star rating was a huge surprise.

Reed, I've been experimenting a lot, especially working with flowers. Since flowers rarely work well using the BuzzPro filters, and since I had some photos that I thought would make nice framed artistic prints I was determined to find something that worked. The Edge preserving Smooth feature produced exactly the "look" I was after.

(Now...I need a CHIROPRACTER!!! An hour or so ago, I fell down a flight of slippery moss covered steps while taking my dog out. OUCH! I twisted my leg...and landed on my BASS...I think I broke it! :D)

bluespade
06-04-2002, 09:59 AM
Great job. Try printing it on watercolor paper. If you don't have a printer. Go through www.bignose.com .

I wouldn't add textures if I were you. I find that they really detract. The watercolor paper will add a great feel to it, anyway.

I love PSP version 7. It doesn't have "actions" like PS, but otherwise I find it easier and more fun. Also, less demanding on the computer's memory.

geckonia
06-04-2002, 11:54 AM
That's an excellent idea about using watercolor paper, Doug! My printer came with a bunch of it and I wasn't sure what I would need it for. I'll remember that when I begin printing my macro flowers. Thank you.

jsr88
06-04-2002, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by bluespade
Great job. Try printing it on watercolor paper. If you don't have a printer. Go through www.bignose.com .

I wouldn't add textures if I were you. I find that they really detract. The watercolor paper will add a great feel to it, anyway.

I love PSP version 7. It doesn't have "actions" like PS, but otherwise I find it easier and more fun. Also, less demanding on the computer's memory.

Doug,
THANKS for link. I went there and managed to get into the site a few pages before my satellite connection went spastic on me this morning. What a wonderful idea. I wonder how well they do enlargements to poster size?

I've already decided that I didn't like the added textures, so I was glad when you mentioned you didn't think they'd work well.

I definitely agree with your comment on PSP7 being easier. I find both PSP7 and PS7 to be MORE FUN than should be legal! :D I love working with each of them. Some things I find are much easier to in PhotoShop and many others (for ME) are much easier in PSP7. And as for "memory"...LOL...I have them BOTH running on my machines at one time. (Yep! I end up with crashes, but as long as I have my work saved, there's rarely a problem. :))

Thanks for the comments and a BIG thanks, once again for that link.

lahkroo
12-13-2006, 04:45 PM
Beautifully done!... and nicely explained. If this 'tutorial and follow-ups are an example of this forum, I'll be visiting often. I also tried to duplicate using PS C2 and didn't get as good a result.

Thanks for sharing.

Windy
12-13-2006, 11:30 PM
lahkroo welcome to the forum.
In CS2 try doing the following
adjust levels
surface blur
sharpen edges
sharpen more
then adjust levels a bit more if you need to. It wont be exactly the same but still has a nice effect.