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Donn
06-22-2007, 11:18 PM
I'm new to OPs. I have samples (3 ea) I just ordered of Holbein, CrayPas Specialist, Sennelier and Caran D'Ache Neopastel.
What type of paper would be good to work with? I have paper I've used for dustys, 140 lb cold press watercolor, and the type of paper you find in sketch journals (75 lb to 100lb paper). I also have canvas paper.
Should I get something different to try these on?
Your help would be appreciated.
Some of my drawings a sketches are in my Flickr. Only a couple are pastels.
Donn
http://Flickr.com/photos/waysidejourney

laika
06-23-2007, 01:45 AM
I also have canvas paper.

i generally use canvas paper, but others here have their favorites. beyond that, i'll venture to say that lighweight sketch paper might not be a good choice for vigorous application and use of solvents.

Pat Isaac
06-23-2007, 08:32 AM
The sample pack is a good way to start. I am partial to art spectrum colorfix paper and Wallis. I like the slightly sanded surface.

Pat

LJW
06-23-2007, 10:46 AM
Hi Donn, I'm like Pat in that I like Artspectrum Colourfix and Wallis papers when I want a smooth but toothy surface to work on. When I do landscapes, I tend to use a canvas board, as I like the extra texture of the canvas for grasses and trees. I tone the canvas board with gesso mixed with a reddish-brown acrylic paint, as I find using the complement of green mutes the greens into a more natural colour. If you use canvas board or canvas paper, it's a good idea to tone it; otherwise you will have to work at filling in all the white spots that occur when the oil pastel doesn't fill in the weave. Some people like to work on watercolour paper and others like a Bristol vellum surface. I have tried both of these, but found they didn't suit my way of working. It's a good idea to experiment with different surfaces to see what works for you. Have fun with your new sample sets. Jane

hopalong
06-23-2007, 11:10 AM
Hi Donn, are you the same Donn that was in Kathy Johnson's watercolor class last summer??? Hello again and welcome to op forum!!
I love BFK Reeves heavy weight paper ( the light weight is really STINKY!!!!)
Also, lately I've been working on 140 HP paper as this is good not only for ops but for other media I like as well.

Cant wait to see your work!!

Jane, I just happen to have a canvas board around and I think I'm going to try just what you recommend...toning with a compliment. Sounds great.

AnnieA
06-23-2007, 11:25 AM
Donn: Good thinking on getting some samples of all the artist brands of OPs to try. Everyone seems to have their own preferences, so trying them all out at the beginning is a good idea.

For a surface to work on with OPs, there are lots of choices. Many people like a sanded surface, such as Colorfix or Wallis paper, as Pat and Jane mentioned. Others like watercolor paper or Bristol vellum (the Bristol offers a slightly smoother surface). For sketches only, I have used rough newsprint, although this isn't usually recommended, because it isn't an archival surface and the paper will eventually disintegrate. As a surface to learn on, it has worked well for me, but I now have some works that I regret having done on newsprint, because I would like to keep them. I would say it's a surface for practice only. And some like canvas paper, as Lamar mentioned, or as Lindsay pointed out, canvas board. Some people use Canson, although most of us find it too smooth to get many layers of OP onto. There are probably other possiblities we haven't even thought of yet! As with the samples of OPs you're getting, a sample pack of paper is probably a good idea. Dakota offers sample packs: http://www.dakotapastels.com/index_paper.shtml (scroll down)

One can also prepare one's own sanded surfaces on paper or board (such as masonite or gatorfoam) by using the Colorfix primers or some of the other primers available from Golden and other suppliers, or by mixing pumice, marbledust, or aluminum grit with gesso. The primer can be applied smoothly, or with a brush for some additional texture, which can create some interesting effects. Some people like to use Liquitex clear gesso on watercolor paper.

I hope you enjoy your new OPs! :) I'll be looking forward to seeing your paintings!

laika
06-23-2007, 02:41 PM
I tone the canvas board with gesso mixed with a reddish-brown acrylic paint, as I find using the complement of green mutes the greens into a more natural colour.

very interesting!

Donn
06-23-2007, 07:21 PM
Hi Donn, are you the same Donn that was in Kathy Johnson's watercolor class last summer??? Hello again and welcome to op forum!!
I love BFK Reeves heavy weight paper ( the light weight is really STINKY!!!!)
Also, lately I've been working on 140 HP paper as this is good not only for ops but for other media I like as well.

Cant wait to see your work!!

Jane, I just happen to have a canvas board around and I think I'm going to try just what you recommend...toning with a compliment. Sounds great.

Hi Lindsey. Yes, I'm the same one that took Kate's on line classes. And thanks for the welcome to OP. Yes, it's new to me. Still trying to decide between Holbein and CrayPas Specialist. (15 colors vs 25 colors).
Thanks for the info on the BFK Reeves. Since I have plenty of 140 lb watercolor paper, I'll try that. Only have 2 sheets of Hot Press, the rest all cold press. Right now I have the CrayPas Expressionists which I'm not too pleased with they way they go on paper, maybe it's the paper I tried it on.
Donn

Donn
06-23-2007, 07:24 PM
Donn: Good thinking on getting some samples of all the artist brands of OPs to try. Everyone seems to have their own preferences, so trying them all out at the beginning is a good idea.

As with the samples of OPs you're getting, a sample pack of paper is probably a good idea. Dakota offers sample packs: http://www.dakotapastels.com/index_paper.shtml (scroll down)


I hope you enjoy your new OPs! :) I'll be looking forward to seeing your paintings!

Thanks Ann for the suggestion. However they want $30 plus p/h for the pack. I may have to wait a bit on that.
Donn

hopalong
06-24-2007, 08:40 AM
Donn, in my experience, the specialists work better for me on a smooth paper like bristol vellum or something like this. I use them for sketching occasionally but my Holbein's are what I rely on the most. I have a set of both but have WAY more Holbein's. I also collect a handful of the Giant Sennies as they behave much like the Holbein's. The white is much more opaque. When I first started in ops, I only had the expressionists and was happy fooling around with them in the beginning.

Donn
07-04-2007, 11:03 PM
Donn, in my experience, the specialists work better for me on a smooth paper like bristol vellum or something like this. I use them for sketching occasionally but my Holbein's are what I rely on the most. I have a set of both but have WAY more Holbein's. I also collect a handful of the Giant Sennies as they behave much like the Holbein's. The white is much more opaque. When I first started in ops, I only had the expressionists and was happy fooling around with them in the beginning.

Thanks for your input. I found the same thing about the Specialists working better on a smooth paper. They work good on Mi-Teintes pastel paper too (smooth side). Have plenty of that. No bristol vellum though. Couldn't get the Holbeins I wanted in a set so will have to pick any up on open stock. The 25 color set was not available at DB.
Donn

Pat Isaac
07-05-2007, 07:45 AM
That is too bad about the Holbeins. I do know that Jerrys has open stock in all their pastels. www.jerrysartarama.com. They may even have the set.

Pat

Donn
07-05-2007, 03:58 PM
That is too bad about the Holbeins. I do know that Jerrys has open stock in all their pastels. www.jerrysartarama.com. They may even have the set.

Pat

Pat, They have the 25 color set. But a bit too expensive for me right now. I just got the Specialists and Sennelier landscape sets from DB and that wiped me out of my art budget for the next several months!
Is the Bristol Vellum smooth?
Donn

Pat Isaac
07-05-2007, 04:40 PM
That is a good start, Donn and you will be happy. I have never used the vellum so will have to defer to others who have.
Have fun.

Pat

LJW
07-05-2007, 05:34 PM
Hi Donn, I tried the Bristol Vellum because Fishfan really likes it, but I found for me it was too smooth and I couldn't get the OPs to move around on it. You may just have to try things out to see - as your budget allows. I just got my Blick order (faster than expected) and the Caran d'ache Neopastels and the CrayPas Specialists aren't as hard as I was expecting. They don't move around as well as the Senns. do, but I'll be able to use them. Jane

Donn
07-06-2007, 08:36 PM
Hi Donn, I tried the Bristol Vellum because Fishfan really likes it, but I found for me it was too smooth and I couldn't get the OPs to move around on it. You may just have to try things out to see - as your budget allows. I just got my Blick order (faster than expected) and the Caran d'ache Neopastels and the CrayPas Specialists aren't as hard as I was expecting. They don't move around as well as the Senns. do, but I'll be able to use them. Jane

Hi Jane.
I'll agree that the Senns move around a lot better than the others. I didn't get the Neopastels because the papers I have just didn't work well with them. The Specialists did worked better. I think the Senns will work on just about anything! I'll have to wait a couple months before I try the Bristol Vellum because my art budget is shot for several months. Hoping my Blick order gets here tomorrow. If not, it'll be next week sometime. Both my orders have been shipped, one a day before the other. I just couldn't pass up the 20% off they were offerring.
Donn

sundiver
07-07-2007, 12:06 AM
Interesting thread... there's no one answer for everybody with o.p.s, is there?
I don't like Bristol Vellum with o.p.s, never tried my Specialists on smooth surfaces, rarely use my Senns on anything and can't get then to do what I want, and use my Holbeins and CDs on just about anything. My preference is sanded surfaces or suede, but I have resolved to use up my pads of pastel paper and am finding that I like them, too.
I use clear gesso, but also like working on surfaces coated with regular gesso, white or black.

Donn
07-07-2007, 11:34 AM
Interesting thread... there's no one answer for everybody with o.p.s, is there?
I don't like Bristol Vellum with o.p.s, never tried my Specialists on smooth surfaces, rarely use my Senns on anything and can't get then to do what I want, and use my Holbeins and CDs on just about anything. My preference is sanded surfaces or suede, but I have resolved to use up my pads of pastel paper and am finding that I like them, too.
I use clear gesso, but also like working on surfaces coated with regular gesso, white or black.

Thanks, Wendy, for your comments. Just tried my samples on what papers I now have. I'm just getting started with OPs so every little thing helps. Maybe things will be different when I begin to actually use them in a drawing. Just doing sample marks and blending is one thing that is limited. I'm still awaiting for my Specialists and Senns to get here. Right now I only have 3 colors of each I used to experiment with.
See my Flickr.
Donn
[url]http://Flickr.com/photos/waysidejourney

Donn
07-07-2007, 11:37 AM
Whoops. Flickr is: http://Flickr.com/photos/waysidejourney
Donn

Finnegan18
07-07-2007, 11:59 AM
I'm new to OPs. I have samples (3 ea) I just ordered of Holbein, CrayPas Specialist, Sennelier and Caran D'Ache Neopastel.
What type of paper would be good to work with? I have paper I've used for dustys, 140 lb cold press watercolor, and the type of paper you find in sketch journals (75 lb to 100lb paper). I also have canvas paper.
Should I get something different to try these on?
Your help would be appreciated.
Some of my drawings a sketches are in my Flickr. Only a couple are pastels.
Donn
http://Flickr.com/photos/waysidejourney
I checked out your flickr pics and I really like your monochrome watercolor painting. I also like how you took photos of your working palettes. Nice touch. I have a blog on my Yahoo 360 page where I post a new painting or drawing and talk about methods, mediums and inspirations for each new posting. I'd like to know what you used to make your pine tree pine needle drawing. Mostly, I would like to find out where you got your OP samples from.

starblue
07-07-2007, 02:11 PM
I notice in your palette samples where you tried on one line the colors themselves and the next line you tried them mixed with a Senn white. I don't know which you put down first, the color or the white. But you could use a third line where you do it the other way around--it yields yet another tint. In other words, from one color stick you can get 3 tints: the color itself; white then color; and color then white--they're not the same.

Donn
07-07-2007, 03:54 PM
Finnegan and Bob,
I got my OP samples from Jerry's Artarama. I just picked out 3 colors of each or the 4 brands that were not in their basic sets. That way I'd end up with at least 3 other colors in the sets I'd get. However, in the Senn colors I chose, they are also in the Landscape set!

The Senn white was layed down on top of the other colors, Bob. I figured that the colors would be different if the white was layed down first. I wanted to see how the Senn white looked on top of the other colors. It's something I'm going to have to make another color chart of. But will wait until my sets get in. Boy, there's a lot to learn with OPs. Almost like a study in itself.

Just to show you how messed up this mail delivery is in Florida, I got the Sennellier Landscape set today and my CrayPas Specialists were mailed out 2 days before the Senns! Still haven't got the Specialists. You figure that one out! Talk about snail mail! Bother were sent USPS Priority mail!

Thanks for your replis. Every little bit helps this newcomer!
Donn