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impressionist2
05-13-2002, 02:46 PM
How about a look-see at what everyone is framing their plein airs in? Plus the price and location of the distributor.

This is the natural wood canvas depth frame from http://www.Framesbymail.com Cost: $8.

Please show us what you are using.

Anyone using the four inch thick ornate frames that look so great?

Renee

blondheim12
05-13-2002, 03:15 PM
Renee,
I am using two frame companies. One is http://floridaframes.com
in Clearwater Florida
The other is:
http://jfmenterprises.net

At Florida Frames, I use a wide antique gold frame with no ornamentation.
At JFM Enterprises, I'm using the traditional plein air frames. They have several to select from.

Those two companies have the best prices I have found with good quality, real wood not fake stuff.
They are both wholesale only companies so you must have a tax resale number. For best selection, order their catalogues. They don't have all the frames on their web site.

There are several plein air frame companies around. Most of them are very expensive. In he $85-$125 range for an 8x10 frame. The ones at JFM run from $28-$60 per frame and are very nice. It depends on your budget and clientelle.
I hope this helps.
Love,
Linda
http://pleinairflorida.org

DLGardner
05-13-2002, 05:00 PM
I use a local custom framer. She's a wonderful lady and is very talented at choosing frames. She has traded me for my artwork (about $600 worth of frames) so I go to her for all my needs. She will frame a piece for a show and if I don't have the money and we aren't trading she'll let me owe it to her. She is making me her "featured" artist in June and will be showing my work exclusively in her shop. She fell in love with a painting I did of her cat so she's put the painting on a postcard and will be sending it as an invitation for my opening. I'm very fortunate to have her because some of the frames she's adorning my paintings with are worth hundreds of dollars.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by blondheim12
[B]Renee,
I am using two frame companies. One is http://floridaframes.com
in Clearwater Florida
The other is:
http://jfmenterprises.net

tuatara
05-13-2002, 08:11 PM
What an interesting thread!! I find framing almost as difficult as making the painting. It can completely change the mood of a piece too. Renee, 4inch frames sound great to me but could you please tell me Linda, what you call a traditional pleine aire frame as I don't think we have such a thing over here.:)
Most of my frames are recycled, restored or hunted out at antique markets which can be cutdown or refinished. Its not easy though!! We have a local shop called Factory Frames which is no help to most of you overseas but for any NZ's they do have great sales every 6 months.

Here is the framing of my last post Waitangi Day, An old oak frame - the work is on card so is underglass with a matt. Apologies about bad photo - I was after the painting not the frame:D !! Its sold so can't get a better one for you.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-May-2002/S_wtdayfram.jpg

regards Pam

blondheim12
05-13-2002, 10:37 PM
http://pleinairframes.com

You can see good examples of plein air frames at the above link.
Love,
Linda

tuatara
05-13-2002, 11:02 PM
Thankyou Linda,
There are some beautiful mouldings at this link. I can see they would look stunning on most types of landscape work. The gold finish seems to be the thing! Its lovely!

Pam:)

impressionist2
05-14-2002, 08:08 AM
Linda, Thank you for the link. I can see where a frame like that shows off plein aire work best.


I downloaded the catalogue but where are the prices? I guess I need to order the hard copy version.

Linda, can you give us an idea of what the 1100 frame would cost in an 8" x 10" or 9" x 12" for now? Thanks.



Tuatara, I missed your painting thread. That painting is Great!!



Renee

impressionist2
05-24-2002, 09:47 AM
Boy, does this forum talk a lot! I had to go to page three just to find this thread! :D

Linda, Thanks so much for the Fla. info. I wrote to them, they wrote back. The frames are very reasonable and now I will be able to have them in time for the Gallery show in August.

Greg said that #822 and # 825 are the ones used most for plein air. Is this the same as what you normally use for your paintings?

Thanks,
Renee

blondheim12
05-24-2002, 10:12 AM
Renee,
Those are both nice mouldings. I have been using # 813 and people seem to like it. I also am using some mouldings from JFM Enterprises which are more classical plein air in style.
Love,
Linda

impressionist2
05-26-2002, 09:37 AM
What's up with this company?:

http://pleinairframes.com

Their catalogue sheets just arrived. The frames are gorgeous, the catalogue sheets are printed beautifully, there are many beautiful frames to choose from, and again, No price list.

Boy, they must be expensive.

Renee

Pam, As I told you on the thread you originally posted that painting on, I Love your painting. Hope to see More in your unique style. It's hard to see it on this thread. Why don't you post the original thread number.

blondheim12
05-26-2002, 09:43 AM
http://pleinairframes.com

Their catalogue sheets just arrived. The frames are gorgeous, the catalogue sheets are printed beautifully, there are many beautiful frames to choose from, and again, No price list.

Boy, they must be expensive.

Renee

Yes,
Their frames are lovely but I can't afford them. If the frame costs more than the painting, I have to pass.
LOL
Love,
Linda

impressionist2
05-26-2002, 10:17 AM
Linda, I just received this from the owner

"Hello Renee,

A 3100 8X10 is $85. There is no minimum order and the quantity discount is 5% for 5 or more frames and 10% for 10 or more. If you have any additional questions, please let me know. Thanks again!


Norman Manes, Owner
Plein Air Frames
[email protected]
Tel: (858) 452-2798
Fax: (858) 530-0084"


Linda, Uh............I don't think so. $85. is way too steep for me. I am used to wholesale not retail. I agree with you.

Renee

artbabe21
05-26-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by impressionist2

A 3100 8X10 is $85


YIKES! For an 8x10?????????????????????? I just sent for a catalog, better email him & say forget it!
Cathleen~

Jo Reimer
05-31-2002, 01:56 AM
I'm new, an old friend of Cath's who roped me into joining you fine folks at WetCanvas. My question for you is what makes a plein aire frame different from any other frame? I've looked at some of the sites you posted but they look like standard frames to me.
Jo

blondheim12
05-31-2002, 06:52 AM
A plein air frame is usually wide and flat,3 to 5 inches wide, with minimal decoration. It also has seamless corners so that the edges where the molding fits together is unblemished. There is often a narrow trim at the outer edge of the frame. They are gold or silver,metal leaf. They are not at all common. You wont find them in a typical frame shop.
Love,
Linda

impressionist2
05-31-2002, 07:27 AM
Jo wrote: "I'm new, an old friend of Cath's who roped me into joining you fine folks at WetCanvas."

Jo, Hi, and Welcome to WC. This is a great forum and fun too.

Linda, I am noticing that a lot of the plein air frames have an Early American history as well.

Stopped by a local museum exhibit with friends recently and noticed a few plein air type frames on the old paintings. Now, I love the look and I see how well the simplicity sets off the painting.

As a stop gap for my rotating exhibit now, I took very simple gold square frames I had in stock and sprayed the linen liner with gold leaf. I am placing my first order soon from Florida Frames for the gallery show in August. Can't wait to get them!

Cathleen, These are about $13.95 for an 8" x 10" plus s & h. A lot better than $85. !! You can write him at: [email protected]

Renee

artbabe21
05-31-2002, 12:21 PM
Welcome to WC, hope you are finding your way around OK. You will learn more here faster than anywhere I've been! I've know Jo for years & she's an excellent artist & teacher.

Renee, thanks so much for letting me know about these frames!!
Wow, what a difference in price! I assume you found it on the web site? Linda, thanks for sharing that source originally.
Cathleen~ :o

TinaLee
05-31-2002, 05:52 PM
I love the plein air frame styles, but presently am limited to buying retail. Are there other sources for this type of frame for those of us who are not yet business owners? I have only seen them on gallery paintings and the websites posted here. And is there any hope in looking for one of these frames for less than $85 for an 8x10?

As an alternative, I've been considering applying guilding to plain moulding; would this be worth the savings in cost? I have no idea how long it would take, or how much gold leaf, etc., it would take to complete a frame. I may pose this question over in the faux finishing/decorative painting forum, too....

artbabe21
06-01-2002, 03:41 PM
Yesterday I was in town and stopped in a few of the galleries. One in particular seems to favor plein aire painters and after noticing the beauty and light of the paintings, the plein aire frames caught my attention. They do show the works off so beautifully. I am sure I noticed them before but just thought it was a new trend in framing.
Cathleen~

impressionist2
06-01-2002, 09:30 PM
Renee, thanks so much for letting me know about these frames!!
Wow, what a difference in price! I assume you found it on the web site? Linda, thanks for sharing that source originally.
Cathleen~

Cathleen, I e-mailed them at: [email protected], sent them my tax id # and they mailed me the catalogue.
The website is http://www.floridaframes.com

Renee

artbabe21
06-01-2002, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by impressionist2
sent them my tax id # and they mailed me the catalogue.
The website is http://www.floridaframes.com


So, are they wholesale only? Here in MT we don't have tax ID#'s as we have no sales tax, so now I have to figure out how I can do this. I have a company I have bought wholesale through before, but I think I used a business liscense--which I quit renewing as I am in the country not the city anyway!!
Cathleen~

blondheim12
06-02-2002, 12:18 AM
Yes,
They are wholesale only. JFM Enterprises are also. Without a tax ID or business liscence it won't be possible to use them.
How do you stay in business without these? How do you do your taxes? Just curious. Not meaning to pry. We have to pay property taxes here on our equipment also.
Love,
Linda

artbabe21
06-03-2002, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by blondheim12
How do you stay in business without these? How do you do your taxes? Just curious. Not meaning to pry. We have to pay property taxes here on our equipment also.


Linda, I had the business license when I was selling from my web site, but it wasn't paintings, other art related items. Now that I have left that behind I dropped my business license. Frames are about the only things you can buy wholesale w/painting, right? Since I am not selling at this point I guess I will have to find another source for frames. BTW, I let my accountant worry about taxes on things I sold. I always seemed to have enough travel expenses to offset what I made when I did shows. We pay dearly in property taxes and on equipment too here to make up for no sales tax.
Cathleen~

LarrySeiler
06-03-2002, 12:20 PM
I myself order frames from three sources-

La Tourette's Gallery ready made frames-
http://www.laframe.com/

they have a catalog you can order, as well as the others-

Wholesale Art & Frame LTD
http://www.whslartframe.com

Graphik Dimensions LTD
http://www.pictureframes.com

by far, the most interesting ornate frames, expensive looking without the expense has been the Wholesale Art & Frame ready mades.

Roughly $16-$21 for 12" x 16"'s....or $27-$34 for 16" x 20's etc;

Larry

artbabe21
06-03-2002, 01:14 PM
Thanks Larry! Graphik Dimensions is the one I kept trying to think of, I bought many frames from them years ago but couldn't remember their name. Good quality and they were reasonable then.
Cathleen~

pampe
06-03-2002, 07:22 PM
why?

artbabe21
06-03-2002, 07:31 PM
and that would be why, what??

LDianeJohnson
06-03-2002, 07:41 PM
Here are some frame companies I can recommend and use/or have used, from the most to the least expensive:

Sexton Bell Custom Framing
Website: http://www.mich.com/~sbframes
Email Address: [email protected]
Mailing Address: 8448 Port Austin Rd., Pigeon, MI 48755
Phone: 517.856.3066
Fax: 517.856.7431
Makers of some of the finest hand-made and finished gold metal leaf frames I've seen anywhere. I use these mostly on pieces 16x20 and larger -- seamless corners with an exceptional finish. They have many, many finishes to choose from...all equally beautiful. They are expensive, and allow some time for these to ship.

Summit Gallery
Website: http://www.goldframes.com
Mailing Address: 7439 Mission Gorge Rd, San Diego, CA 92120
Phone: 619.286.9600
Fax: 619.286.9600
Gold or silver metal leaf American Impressionist frames. These are on some of my smaller pieces, 12x16 or so. They too, have seamless corners but are darker in tone than I use from Sexton-Bell. This company offers just a few different styles, but in many sizes. These are similar to what Linda has already posted...these are more expensive, so I'd explore the JFMenterprises (http://www.jfmenterprises.net) as she has mentioned, before considering these.

New Jersey Frame & Moulding, Co.
Mailing Address: P.O. Box 2441, 62-68 Kearny St., Patterson, NJ 07509
Phone: 1.800.526.5281
Nice, less expensive commercial frames for all types of paintings. I use these in all sizes. They have many profiles and finishes. Some of the gold wood-toned frames are heavy in gold color but are inexpensive, and the company ships quickly.

Roanoke Moulding Design
1715 Granby St.
Roanoke, VA 24012
They can chop/assemble for a low cost -- very reasonable.

Diane

blondheim12
06-03-2002, 09:51 PM
I have seen Diane's frames from Sexton Bell and Summit and they are truely glorious.

I used Graphic Deminsions for awhile but they are cheap looking to me. I guess you have to pay for top quality.
The Florida Frames are the best looking cheap frames I've seen.

JFM are quite impressive for the money, not in the class with Diane's but pretty nice and moderately priced.

Love,
Linda

LDianeJohnson
06-03-2002, 10:20 PM
Ditto on Graphic Dimensions Linda,

I used GD frames for many years in the early going. A few of the wood styles are quite nice, but some are of lesser quality. The metal frames are the same as found anywhere, and very inexpensive.

I requested scrap pieces of the styles that appealed to me in the catalogue. Then I purchased a full frame in the styles I found looked best with my pastel paintings. All were very inexpensive, arrived within a couple of days, and excellent customer service if there was ever a problem. Just the ticket at the time.

"Frameland" has been a long road...this is a good thread for exchanging frame company possibilities!

D.

tuatara
06-04-2002, 12:22 AM
[i]Originally posted by impressionist2
Pam, As I told you on the thread you originally posted that painting on, I Love your painting. Hope to see More in your unique style. It's hard to see it on this thread. Why don't you post the original thread number. [/B]

Hi Renee, thanks for your kind words. Have been away in Australia for a week so have only just found this. I will post the link as you suggest but would think most will have seen it by now.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42775

Welcome to Wet Canvas and this forum, Jo.

And I didn't get any painting done en plein aire over there. Grrrrr!!!
regards Pam:)

impressionist2
06-27-2002, 09:04 AM
I dragged this old thread out, because I just received my first order from Florida Frames. Thanks to Linda B. for the tip.

They arrived packed perfectly, promptly, and they are beautiful. Thick wood, exactly as described in the brochure, only better.

If you order ten of the same size and style, you get ten percent off, which I did. # 813, as Linda recommended.

Next buy- the fleximaster and flexible points. Also, Florida frames is almost $30 less than pearl Paint on the gun.

Did you buy your point shooter from the same frame company, Linda?

Thanks for all the advice.

Renee

blondheim12
06-27-2002, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by impressionist2

Did you buy your point shooter from the same frame company, Linda?

Thanks for all the advice.

Renee
Yopu are welcome. No, I got my framing gun long before I discovered Florida Frames. However, I do get my eye screws and framing wire from them. First rate and a good price.
Love,
Linda
http://dougie.net/epotw/

LarrySeiler
07-04-2005, 01:54 PM
Renee,
I am using two frame companies. One is http://floridaframes.com
in Clearwater Florida
The other is:
http://jfmenterprises.net
Love,
Linda
http://pleinairflorida.org


bringing this back up...hoping Linda Blondheim will pop in here...

Linda..you mentioned JFM frames, and their site mentions that the frames are available ONLY to those with resale licenses, resale tax numbers...now, is that then (so I understand) JFM enterprizes operating as a wholesaler selling to other gallery/framers that sell frames? Or would an artist's seller's permit qualify for this specified qualification? What are doing to get frames from them? Curious...

Larry

LarrySeiler
07-04-2005, 02:07 PM
found this site...pretty decent prices and offerings...
http://www.frame-express.com/pleinair.html

that link above is the plein air gold frames, their regular site is this here-
http://www.frame-express.com/

give various frame options...
Larry

artbabe21
07-04-2005, 02:13 PM
Linda..you mentioned JFM frames, and their site mentions that the frames are available ONLY to those with resale licenses, resale tax numbers...now, is that then (so I understand) JFM enterprizes operating as a wholesaler selling to other gallery/framers that sell frames? Or would an artist's seller's permit qualify for this specified qualification? What are doing to get frames from them? Curious...


Larry, good morning!:) I think they are fairly lenient. I have their catalog (they are really good looking high end frames for reasonable prices) which I got by telling them I was an artist looking to sell my work framed & since we don't have a sales tax in MT, we don't have tax ID numbers so they sent me a catalog & gave me a password to the site to buy online. I'd try whatever you have. Email them!

LarrySeiler
07-04-2005, 02:20 PM
hhhmm...interesting. Okay, thanks Cathleen...good enough for me!

check out that last link I provided, they look good and reasonable as well. I have to get a couple gold frames el pronto....

Larry

axpert
07-04-2005, 05:29 PM
I love the old frames. My best resources (and the cheapest by far) are auctions and flee markets. Also Ebay. Just buy the paintings of which the paintings are crappy, but the frames are what I am after. I get some of my best frames by buying needle works that are sometimes framed in the most expensive and beautiful ornate frames for real (!!!!) cheap. Like $ 25 for which you would easily pay $350 in a framing store.

Like the frame below (30 x 40 cm). I got 2 of them in an auction for $15 ($7.50 a piece). I trashed the 'paintings' in them. The frames looked a bit trashy, because they were black with shiney gold. So I took some acryl paint, and painted them in the colors I wanted. When the paint was dry, I took some fine steel wool and rubbed all over it to get the paint off the high spots, so the gold would come back, but not as shiny as before. I think it took me 15 minutes of work to make two frames I liked.

Pierre

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Jul-2005/8306-TuininTwisksmall.jpg

LarrySeiler
07-04-2005, 08:04 PM
yeah...that's kinda cool! I hear people pickin' up more stuff on Ebay...just don't spend much time on it or think about it...

neat to see what you've done! Thanks..

Larry

blondheim12
07-04-2005, 08:41 PM
Larry,
T answer your question is that they are looking for a state resale tax number, your sales tax number. That is what it is called in Florida. I don't know what you have in Wisconsin
Love,
Linda

midcoast
07-05-2005, 11:03 AM
Maybe this is beating a dead horse, but since this thread has been revived, I'll add my 2 cents...

A plein air frame can be anything you want it to be...it really doesn't have to be the type of style that Linda suggests...although that is "traditional" and is what many artists like. If that's what you like and what looks good on your paintings, go for it. Frame to complement the painting, IMO, not necessarily to fit a pre-defined style:)

Also, frame to the price you're selling your paintings (if you're selling). A rule of thumb is to spend about 10% of your retail price of the painting on its frame if you're selling in a gallery. IMO, many professional artists trying to sell at galleries for decent $$ make the mistake of under-framing their work. If you're a beginner, that's fine...frame to what you can afford. Buy Michael's or Hobby Lobby frames if that's all you can do within your budget. If you're a pro selling in several galleries though, chop-corner frames don't go over too well with the buyers when your paintings are priced upwards of $400. If you're in the position of selling in galleries, do yourself a favor and get a good framer (finished corners and metal leaf, not spray paint).

Honestly, as art buyers, Tom and I have decided NOT to buy several paintings over the last year or so because of poor framing. The last thing that we want to do when we buy art is to have to re-frame a painting because the artist put a cheap frame on a $1200 or $1500 painting (yes, this happened several times in both Taos and Aspen).

The other thing to consider is that if you are showing in galleries or in a show of some kind, your paintings look better overall (as a package) if you frame consistenly. This doesn't mean to use the exact same frame on every painting in the show or gallery, but it does mean to have a consistent look and feel to all of your frames. I can't begin to tell you how important this is...I've learned this from observing, and talking with gallery owners and successful artists (Dan Young, Matt Smith, Scott Mattlin, etc). And this is a common mistake that beginning artists make...please don't have a gallery show and use 20 completely different frames from 20 different makers :) For example, a local Colorado artist who I admire had a show of 25 of his landscape paintings last fall (local gallery). He had everything from chop-corner, pseudo-baroque gold frames that looked tacky on his paintings, to some rather busy french-type frames, some silver frames with lots of ornamentation, to some beautiful black-and-gold frames by a framer in Denver. His paintings were consistent but his framing was haphazard and it detracted from his show as a whole. On the other hand, go to a show by Dan Young or Matt Smith (or any other successful artist), and the framing has a very consistent look and feel...they are not all the same frames, but they all go well together.

Yes, I'm opinionated and I don't necessarily agree with everyone here :) but if you're in doubt, start picking the brains of gallery owners and successful artists you admire. IMO, not enough beginning artists get advice from seasoned pros, and then take it. Established, selling artists can be a font of knowledge :)

BTW, here are some of the frames that I use...

Nancy

LarrySeiler
07-05-2005, 11:06 AM
Larry,
T answer your question is that they are looking for a state resale tax number, your sales tax number. That is what it is called in Florida. I don't know what you have in Wisconsin
Love,
Linda

thanks Linda..
I did receive an email from them this morning asking me to fax them my seller's permit which I'll do...much appreciated!

knew you folks would be the resource to go to!

Larry

LarrySeiler
07-05-2005, 11:13 AM
yeah...I remember you spend time going over yours Nancy...rubbing them down, adding stuff...you spent time a while back giving a step by step. All good stuff.

Yeah..for me, depends on the show I'm at. I have one kind of frame for the galleries, another for one time exhibitions (and depending on the clientele they will reach out to).

If its a northern midwest show like one I have end of July, we love our wood frames. Perhaps that's a testament to living in forested regions, having a logging history I don't know. Around here gold frames are gaudy, tacky, called ugly even by gallery owners!

One show I'm in in September calls for all participants to have their three pieces in gold frames...

I agree...can't have a $2000 painting in what appears to be an obvious $14 discount frame.

I also spend time applying a heavy Kraft brown paper to the back to hide off framing work, any marks from framing companies and so forth.

appreciate comments everyone...

Larry

DLGardner
07-05-2005, 11:32 AM
Hi Larry,
I just sold two paintings. One had been framed by a professonal custom framer. Not a gaudy frame at all and it went well with the painting. The other was a standard plein air frame I had purchased, silver. The same lady bought both the paintings and had me remove the frames on both.

Up here gaudy gold frames are a big thing. People are looking to match their home decor.

Dianne

LarrySeiler
07-05-2005, 11:46 AM
yeah...I think the more removed people are from the natural elements, more spending time in the retro life...impressing each other among the haves versus the have nots, a Lexus next to their Beemer and so forth the more decor represents their having made it in the world and is important as an impression to maintain.

We think of frames complementing and framing our paintings, some people think of decor and outward appearance of things as framing what impressions the other Haves might have of them. I think the more down to earth a region is...perhaps more backwoodsy and earth connected, the less the glitz is appealing. Just my thought anyway.

Reminds me of a former agent I had that loved going to these house parties of the rich in St Paul and Minneapolis, set up her half-dozen brass display easels and the works of several of us artists she represented. She loved putting on her most expensive jewelry, big rocks on her fingers and driving up in her cadillac. Loved being a name dropper, schmoozing...and I suppose we need people that like whatever they feel they get from that. I myself don't have the patience for such, and little regard for the taste of high things when its for show only.

ON the other hand...where affluence understands aesthetics and you have a genuine collector possessing knowledge not in it for the prestige only but love of the art, well that is rare but pretty stinkin' cool!

Larry

blondheim12
07-05-2005, 12:35 PM
Nancy,
I really have no choice in my framing. I frame for what the market asks. I thought I would try to do something different about 6 months ago. I ordered some sleek light grey natural wood frames and they bombed so badly that I never sold a single painting in them, though they complimented my work nicely. My dealers did not even want to show work in them and asked that I return to traditional metal leaf plein air style frames. The minute I reframed them they started selling. I had to give away the very expensive frames that no one wanted, so lesson learned. It's not about what you think your work looks good in but rather about what your gallery dealers and patrons like.

Love,
Linda

RI painter
07-05-2005, 01:44 PM
Here is a high end place close to me. I use them for special pieces right now because of the costs, but they are really nice hand carved frames with metal or precious metal leaf.
http://www.motykaframe.com/
Jon

blondheim12
07-05-2005, 01:52 PM
Jon,
These frames are amazing but alas, too rich for my blood.
Love,
Linda

ArtMarkie
07-05-2005, 03:45 PM
Hello all,

Around the area where I live, wide gold frames are the main thing. Not many
people like the ultra-mod stark plain frames here, except photographers. That
seems to be a decorating idea.

Cristy A
07-05-2005, 04:54 PM
I'm glad to see this thread bouncing around again. Last week I was in Judson's (guerillia painter) office, and saw my new all time favorite frames on plein air paintings. They were made using the same materials and finishes as the guerilla boxes, and they just looked great. Sleek and clean, down to earth and warm. I absolutely loved them. I don't know how collectors or galleries react, but this painter thought they looked just right. Sarah keeps an eye on us - maybe she'll pop in and show us a photo.
Cristy

blondheim12
07-05-2005, 05:03 PM
I'd love to see them Sarah.
Love,
Linda

JanB
07-05-2005, 09:15 PM
I am sooo glad this thread was brought back up. I am continually in a framing crisis :( I'm never completely happy with the way my work looks in the frames I have, partly because my work is often very varied, oil w/brush, oil w/knife (thick paint), and now bright acrylics. As it so happens I received an order from Florida Frames TODAY!! with yet another new style of frame to compliment my acrylics, here are some pics. And BTW I don't have a tax # or any other # type thingy (the gallery takes care of sales tax, etc.) and I was never asked for one from Fla. Frames, just to make the min. $125 purchase.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jul-2005/48727-frame1.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jul-2005/48727-frame2.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jul-2005/48727-frame4.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jul-2005/48727-frame5.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Jul-2005/48727-frame6.gif


Not the best photos sorry I should have used my tripod...just too lazy to drag it out :evil: :D

DLGardner
07-05-2005, 09:41 PM
This is a nice company also and their prices are the best I've ever found. On the website you can load your images and see how they look in their frames. You can also order giclees from them. I ordered one due here Thursday. I'll let you know how the quality is. Their frames come from Mexico. There are some really pretty ones. and they carry the plein aire frames for much less than what I've seen other places. Also, periodically they include a 15% in their catalogs and they have wholesale discounts as well.
http://www.pictureframes.com

LarrySeiler
07-05-2005, 11:01 PM
not a big fan of gold frames, Jan...and I buy them begrudgingly knowing while they may be good for shows nationally, work that returns will have to have a different frame put on to be more in keeping around here in the midwest. Yet...I like that look of the wider lining spacer. Gives some relief from the gold and a nice look. Wonder how those fare with the plein air shows...where gold frames are exclusive?

Larry

JanB
07-06-2005, 09:28 AM
Larry, I actually like gold frames but often find the "color" of the gold(and they do vary) doesn't complement the colors in the painting, particularly when there are warm greens in the piece everything begins to take on a sick looking greenish-gold cast, :eek: yuck. I also find the wide plein air frames sometimes make the image look boxed in and compressed, yet other times it looks just fine. One frame does NOT fit all LOL. I've sometimes seen liners used at plein air shows,but usually a narrower liner, maybe an inch, in the traditional wide gold frames. This can give a painting the breathing room it needs and still maintain that "plein air frame" look :rolleyes:and keep it consistent with the rest of the pieces in a show . I do find that a painting with a lot of light values, especially near the edges don't always look good with a liner because the boundary of the piece seems to just fade away, they tend to look better with just a frame. I've seen a plein air frame that is made of a very wide natural liner and a very narrow moulding, it's called a contemporary California design, you can see it at www.frame-express.com it's style #2006, an 8x10 is $30. At the Sovek workshop he brought in some of his work framed and he uses a wide 3-4" liner and a simple narrow gold moulding. It's a more contemporary framing option that really enhanced the bright colors and design of his pieces. I tried to copy that look within my budget, not quite the same but if I start selling just a little more I think I'll be able to go up one notch in frame quality. It's really too bad that your markets are different and you always have to re-frame pieces, I can barely keep my sanity(and budget balanced) just framing once.

Frankidadio
07-06-2005, 10:12 AM
When someone refers to a Plein Air frame, they mean a style that is typically seen on plein air paintings. Kudos to you "d garden"! Thank you for using a professional. There can be no question that your artwork looks better professionally framed. Developing a relationship with your local framer is smart, and rewarding both professionally and personally. Why some artists will choose to cheap out on the presentation of their artwork is beyond me. If you care enough to use good paint, good canvas, or boards, and spend the time and energy to do your best work, why then put the cheapest frame around it? It's like buying a filet mignon, preparing your grill perfectly, making the best side dish, grilling the meat to perfection, serving it beautifully, and then soaking it in ketchup.

I am both a professional framer and a painter. Recently I posted a comment on the Studio Tips channel here on WetCanvas. Some of my comments are relevant to this thread, and important for painters who frame their own work to hear. I'll repeat the high points.

The artist in me understands and sympathizes with the cost of framing. The framer in me cringes at how badly most artists frame their own work. I own my own shop and frame for galleries, museums and many artists, mostly those that sell well and can afford me, although I bend over backwards for artists, and always try to find a solution that is within their budget. A painting that doesn't need glass is fairly easy to frame, although I have seen some things come through my shop that are damaged beyond repair by shoddy framing. A work on paper is an entirely different matter. Most times it will look good enough on the outside, but what is going on inside will destroy the artwork before too long, or make it nearly impossible for the purchaser to frame correctly after they buy your artwork... I have seen it all. If you are going to frame your own work, PLEASE learn how, so when I get it in my shop to reframe it isn't a mess. Using acid free materials is NOT ENOUGH. Knowing how is just as important.

You think framing is too expensive? here are some tips to make your artwork framer friendly:

1. Make it square. I don't mean the same dimension all around, I DO mean make sure your corners are true right angles, especially a stretched canvas. Out of square = more time = more $.
2. Don't wait until the last minute. I've had countless people come in or phone me to ask if I can frame their twenty pieces for a show going up in few days, and oh yeah, they don't have a lot of money to spend. I have a sign in my shop that reads "GOOD, FAST, CHEAP... pick two."
3. Be reasonable, don't pick the most expensive moulding off the wall, and expect it to be cheap. Ask your framer if he/she has any specials available or if any supplier has any discontinued overstock. Most of us have a soft spot for artists framing their own work. Wed like every customer to be the collector who wants the gold leaf, but we understand business and the bottom line.
4. Ask for a discount. I give discounts for many reasons. Volume helps, but so does frequency.

There are wholesalers who will sell to anyone with a resale number, but I do not do business with them. I have invested a lot of time, energy and money into my business, and any supplier that will cut me out of the picture does not get my business. I had a customer who bought one 3" gold leaf frame every year for four years. I gave her a good discount. On the fifth year she came in with the cut moulding and asked me to join it for her. I asked her where she bought the chop, and she said the same supplier as me! I said I would join it for the same cost as if she bought it from me, then I went to my sample wall and took down all their samples and called my sales rep and told him to take a hike.

Unless you want to spend the money to tool-up and then educate yourself you will produce shoddy work that will reflect badly on your art. A badly framed piece will always look like crap. That doesn't mean you should put a 3" Gold Leaf moulding on your work. A simple unobtrusive and inexpensive moulding is going to look better to a buyer, than a big bad frame that might not be their taste, and that they are going to have to buy if they want your art.

How do you want to spend your time? Painting or framing? I do both because I like both and because I am equipped and educated to do both. I feed my family with the framing, but honestly, I would rather be painting. Someday I will sell my shop and then I will bring my paintings in to be framed.

www.frankgregory.com

Bill Foehringer
07-06-2005, 10:30 AM
Linda, could you please show me an example of the plein air gold leaf frames that went over so well???? BillF

LarrySeiler
07-06-2005, 01:42 PM
Why some artists will choose to cheap out on the presentation of their artwork is beyond me. If you care enough to use good paint, good canvas, or boards, and spend the time and energy to do your best work, why then put the cheapest frame around it?

Well...yes, its an art form no doubt, as is taking pictures. Many artists might then consider having all their art work photographed professionally as well. Might want to market their work professionally, hire agents. Create tri-fold brochures with four color separation, post cards professionally made, and so forth...on and on. Its difficult this business of art, and since 90% of all artists make less than $5000 per year with their art, and of that last 10%, 80% of those make less than $1000...its difficult going with framers and galleries who make a 300% mark up on framing.

I respect that everyone wants and needs to make a living...certainly. Thus, its a bit like damage control. There is the ideal, yes...but then there is the brass tacks rubber meets the road point of necessity.

At this moment...many of the artists in a show I have coming up are pitching in to advertise in major national art magazines...at $1300 for a half page ad. Add to this gold frames, flight/travel arrangements, hotels...well, its pretty obvious no money will be made should we be fortunate to sell our work.

One can operate in the deficit/red only so long before one simply has to give up painting, or begrudgingly kiss their spouse goodbye and wish them well! hee heee...

This discussion goes on at every level for the artist. Some saying they can't see why artists would use lesser quality lower priced oil pigments, others insisting good paintings can't be done with cheap brushes.

Take into consideration that success is evidently defined at different levels for different artists living and working in different regions of the country. Its enough as far as I'm concerned to be sharing 35-45% of my sales with my galleries let alone pay them a 300% mark up for their frames!

Bottom line is if the frame looks good...complements the art, looks as though it has value. Some frames look cheap. Some frames are cheap looking only from the back where they may say, "Henco En Mexico!" but art foam core board and a good Kraft paper wrap can take care of that.



I am both a professional framer and a painter.

I kinda had a feeling you were a framer...
its especially nice as an artist to have time to frame one's work. I tried in the past...but as my wife pointed out its difficult to be best at everything and do justice. So...we do what we gotta do...that's the bottom line. I wish I could afford your framing. Want to buy some paintings??? :rolleyes:

Appreciate your taking a moment to share your thoughts. Don't mean to be disrespectful, but if you take a moment to stand in the shoes of the majority of artists (which is struggling to live off of their work)...there is enough pressure to maintain what it is we do without feeling guilty for deciding one cannot afford inflated framing prices.

If it looks crappy...I can agree, change is in order. Thus far, with the bit of work I do to tweak or prepare the frame in hand, I have heard nothing negative and that includes the galleries my work ends up at.

OOOhh...I had to edit this back in as I just remembered too, which I might add doesn't always guarantee that a professional framer is above human error and that a frame made from such will be flawless. I paid about $600 for a frame last year to be made for me. I had to bring it back after being contacted by a patron, as it separated somehow in the corners. So, even with all that money spent it was no guarantee. So, then the burden comes down to working your way thru a list of alledged professional framers better than perhaps others? Ssheesh....I have not the time nor money for such to be honest.

Larry

DLGardner
07-06-2005, 02:10 PM
Kudos to you "d garden"! Thank you for using a professional. There can be no question that your artwork looks better professionally framed. Developing a relationship with your local framer is smart, and rewarding both professionally and personally.
I am VERY fortunate. I had my first solo gallery show last year and my framer trusts my work so much that she framed everything I had on the prospect that when the painting sells she will get her price for the frame. That was well over $1000 worth of framing. (She charges me just a little above her cost and time) I couldn't have done it (profressional frame work) without her help. We have had an ongoing relationship as such and it feels so good to have someone have faith in my work like that. She's not completely paid off yet, but almost. I take her paintings and the ones she likes she keeps in trade for framework, or she frames them, puts them in her shop and when they sell the money goes towards what I owe her. Next week she has some 'house' painting to do too as she has rentals so I'll be painting the kitchen and laundry I hope in trade for the balance of what I owe her. I'm almost totally paid off now. I like to think that she too has prospered on account of me. I send her all my clients and her tag goes with all my paintings. Plus, she's made close to $800 in cash for the frames, some canned jams and jellies from my fruit trees, and she has someone she can call on to paint her house. So we're doing ok! I do demos in her shop and help bring her business. She also gets commission work for me too, of which she frames. So we have a neat thing going for sure.

If you can work something like that with artists, and I hope you do if you like to frame other people's work, than both of you will benefit.

Dianne

Frankidadio
07-06-2005, 03:21 PM
Larry,

As I said, I DO appreciate the situation artists are in trying to make a living off of their artwork... I am one! ...and that is why I am also a framer! I am only trying to make two points:

1. If you are doing your own framing, make it look good AND do it right. Very often inexpensive looks cheap when it doesn't have to.

2. Don't assume your local framer is too expensive, ask. D Garden has done herself a huge favor by developing that relationship. I have a few customers like her, and I would love several more. As for shoddy workmanship by a framer, there certainly are poorly trained framers out there. Unfortunatly for the industry, picture framing is a fairly inexpensive business to startup, and many people open up with little or no experience. They struggle along for a few years, sucking business away from the rest of us, then go out of business, only to be replaced by another wannabe. Ask for references or to see the workroom. I love showing off my tools. All said, aren't you fortunate to have someone to take a broken frame back to? I'll bet he was mortified and fixed it right away, I know I would be. Try that with an internet supplier selling frames made by slave labor in China.

I don't know your galleries, but often galleries will split the cost of the framing or pay for it themselves. Personally I feel if a gallery is getting in excess of 40% of the sale price, they should cover part of the costs, AND actively promote your work, not just provide wall space.... but that's a topic for another thread!

coulter
07-06-2005, 08:42 PM
If no one has mentioned it yet, our own Nancy Rynes and her husband have started a framing business! Very beautiful work too!

Once you put a painting of yours in a good hand-made frame (which is really a piece of fine furniture, as it should be! Where's it gonna hang?) and then compare it to a painting in a store-bought frame, you will see that a fine frame makes your work look even better!
I can't afford to buy frames for all my paintings, but I work at it each month, and do it as I can...
Mark

blondheim12
07-06-2005, 09:19 PM
I don't know your galleries, but often galleries will split the cost of the framing or pay for it themselves. Personally I feel if a gallery is getting in excess of 40% of the sale price, they should cover part of the costs, AND actively promote your work, not just provide wall space.... but that's a topic for another thread!

I have two corporate art dealers that do the framing for me and two commercial galleries who prefer to do the framing. It is very helpful.

I don't have a pciture of the frame fight now Bill but it is the simple plein air frame with just the lip around the edge in metal leaf. The other style that really looks good on my work is what they call champagne metal leafor washed silver. It is a warm silver frame , very pretty. I'll try to get a picture for you.
Love,
Linda

Marc Hanson
07-06-2005, 09:20 PM
Larry,
As I said, I DO appreciate the situation artists are in trying to make a living off of their artwork... I am one! ...and that is why I am also a framer!
Frank, Me too. I've worked for 5 different shops through the years (since 1972) and operated my own for a few...all so I could afford to frame my own work. That has helped me now to use 'cheaper' frames and customize them to my needs. Or to use length molding and do a job assembling that is hard to beat when compared to the 'finished' corner frames.

I think part of the problem with today's galleries framing needs(at least in the galleries I'm in) is that they expect a painting to use finished corner Very good metal leafed frames, or gold leafed frames. Custom carved, 22kt gold frames means I don't make enough to make it worthwile sending paintings(shipping, crating, insurance) anymore. If you have a framer, or have the training, frames can be made to look nearly as good as the 'purchased' versions from the suppliers out east or out west. I often take a cheap metal leafed frame and using techniques read over the years in Picture Framers Mag and other sources, alter the panels, fill the seams or even overleaf and re-antique, distress and finish those to a 'gallery' presentation. That's a great way to go (with practice and knowledge) to get a customized look for each and every painting. To me that's a lot more desireable than every single painting in a show having a 'Walter Skor' look alike on it.

Or, buy some of Nancy's frames...Mark Coulter is right, they look great.

1. If you are doing your own framing, make it look good AND do it right. Very often inexpensive looks cheap when it doesn't have to.
I agree completley.


I don't know your galleries, but often galleries will split the cost of the framing or pay for it themselves. Personally I feel if a gallery is getting in excess of 40% of the sale price, they should cover part of the costs, AND actively promote your work, not just provide wall space.... but that's a topic for another thread!
Please send me the address of those galleries. I've never found a gallery that was willing to spend money like that. It's more like "50% and be happy about it!" :crying:

Although I agree that they should, it's been an ongoing conversation for 25 years with artists I've known, that we've NEVER felt that we get more than wall space. In the last year I've finally found a gallery that is taking the extra step...but they still wouldn't pay for my framing. :( Many give reasonable discounts if they also frame, but in my experience they'd just as soon not deal with it.

Beginning artists trying to break into the gallery world woud be best not to ask about the gallery splitting framing, advertising, or any other costs. Be happy that in today's extremely competitive gallery market, with artists coming out of every crack in the sidewalk...hang and be happy. Until they 'need' you, they don't. :wink2:

LarrySeiler
07-07-2005, 11:03 AM
Although I agree that they should, it's been an ongoing conversation for 25 years with artists I've known, that we've NEVER felt that we get more than wall space. In the last year I've finally found a gallery that is taking the extra step...but they still wouldn't pay for my framing. :( Many give reasonable discounts if they also frame, but in my experience they'd just as soon not deal with it.

Beginning artists trying to break into the gallery world woud be best not to ask about the gallery splitting framing, advertising, or any other costs. Be happy that in today's extremely competitive gallery market, with artists coming out of every crack in the sidewalk...hang and be happy. Until they 'need' you, they don't. :wink2:

certainly concur...most galleries want the artist to thank their lucky stars they were even considered. It is quite a find indeed to find a good gallery that understands their artists help keep them out of the red, and treats artists with royal treatment. I have one such gallery...ONE...in how many years of dealings!

Still...even a discount on frames by galleries will be more expensive than doing it yourself, and again...those working on the frames may be weekend help, trained and so forth yet no guarantee the framing jobs are to perfection. I had one more frame this past week insisted upon and put together for one particular work of mine come apart.

Larry

LarrySeiler
07-07-2005, 11:39 AM
2. Don't assume your local framer is too expensive, ask. D Garden has done herself a huge favor by developing that relationship.

Again....I mean no disrespect, and it won't benefit our forum for me to go back and forth so I'll try and resolve this as decently as I can...but I've been dealing with galleries since 1980, and I'm not assuming anything as concerns my dealings with galleries and my work. I cannot speak for others. It may say more about my state being a football/beer culture and that many galleries are operating in the red or just out of the red, which perhaps turns some of these people to seeing opportunity wherever they may find it...(artists being one of them).

I've had relationships with gallery owners myself, some REQUIRING their frames to earn privilege to show in their gallery, and they still take a whoppin' commission. Still...they are in it to make a living, and (again speaking only of my experiences) HERE they are too expensive!

You know...the basic wood w/liner frame has been the favored frame for as long as I can remember here in Wisconsin, again tradition...our forests and lore perhaps. Fancy decorative frames just haven't yet hit the fancy of buyers. There isn't a lot of rocket science that goes into making such a frame. Its when you begin to do decorative ornate work on the frame, gilding and so forth where perhaps the framer as artist may become more essential. Still...a basic wood w/liner frame here say on a 16"x 20" thru a gallery with them attaching the work is going to run about $95 to $135...and a 20"x 24" might run closer to $120 to $150...

Take such a frame apart and nothing much has been done except perhaps art foam core board as a filler behind the picture, papering and a nice job wiring. I can purchase such a frame myself for less than $30...

Now...multiply that to about 30 or 40 frames in preparation for a show and tell me that going the gallery route to frame work isn't going to be expensive here for me?


I don't know your galleries, but often galleries will split the cost of the framing or pay for it themselves. Personally I feel if a gallery is getting in excess of 40% of the sale price, they should cover part of the costs, AND actively promote your work, not just provide wall space.... but that's a topic for another thread!

I've run into 35% upwards to 65%...by galleries here, very very careful about their wall space as they must meet their leases each month. One gallery I have had some good success in is located in a great tourist area, and goes so far as to contract artists to pay $110 monthly up front to shoulder costs. Such artists pay out then only 25% commission for their sales. For that, you get a wall space of your own. I have not yet had opportunity to claim a wall, still waiting for one to open up...so I have about a half-dozen pieces strewn about until then. The gallery thus takes 35% of my sales. But, if they are taking money from artists for wall space, you know they aren't going to give artists breaks on framing!

Things must just be going much better for artists elsewhere around the country...

I agree...paintings sure look wonderful in great frames. Then again, I'd look pretty good driving around in a new SUV or pickup pulling a nice boat...but I continue driving my 1983 rebuilt Ford Ranger. We do what we gotta do...can't do much more can we?

Talent and prowess is no guarantee birthed into a culture illprepared to pay recompense and tribute, and many can swallow water bobbing along only so long trying to stay afloat in just such a culture.

I have not disagreed whatsoever on what may be ideal, Frank...but am answering your question as to why "some artists would go cheap..." which you said was beyond your quite figuring that out. I am simply making a case to help explain why that may well be.

Money being no object, I'd choose only the best frames...but equally, if money were NO object I'd have to take a loss on each sale to reach buyers who might not also see money as no object. We are no doubt dealing with different clientele in different cultural climates with different values and tastes, having vastly different incomes to their disposals.

Truth is...this thread was started not because we didn't already know there were beautiful gorgeous frames out there to spend money on, but because most artists looking at their end of month budget longed for the possibility other alternatives might exist. Many links provided have given some artists just that. Again...no disrespect intended. Thanks for sharing btw...much appreciated.

Larry

midcoast
07-07-2005, 12:06 PM
Larry -

No disrespect taken here :)

The reason that we started our framing business was that I wanted a specific look in a frame that I couldn't get without spending tons of money (antique Italian polychrome). Turns out that other artists were looking for the same. We're really targeting those artists who want a quality frame at a reasonable price but don't have the time any longer to do it themselves :) we know our market :) We have decided not to do the full carving, and won't offer water-gilding for awhile...but we do offer 22kt for those people who feel they have to have it.

It's interesting that a recent customer thought he wanted 22kt...until I priced it out for him! I also did up a sample corner that showed him he couldn't tell the difference between 22kt and plain metal leaf. So I sold him on the less expensive option because it made more sense in his situation :) Some other framers I know here in CO might try to do the opposite. As you stated, Larry, 22kt is nice, but not necessary.

We're seeing what you're seeing...that the frame's look is quite regional...gold or metal leafing goes better on the east and west coasts. Here in the Rockies, gold/black does really well. I'm not sure what's "in" in Europe or Down Under. I just try to help people frame to enhance the painting...that's my mantra and I'm sticking with it :)

For those artists willing to do it themselves, there ARE places you can get raw moulding for a reasonable price. That's how I started out. And once our business is a couple months "older" we're going to offer our raw mouldings to artists too.

So be creative...Marc had a good idea to buy cheaper frames and spruce them up. Easier to do that than cut your own moulding. For those choosing to go that route, just make sure you're dealing with wood moulding rather than plastic...wood is easier to mess with than plastic, IMO. Lasts longer too...

Personally, I really enjoy making frames, not quite as much as painting, but I still have fun with it :)

Nancy

Frankidadio
07-07-2005, 12:54 PM
We do what we gotta do...can't do much more can we?

Couldn't agree more Larry. No offense taken.

BTW Nancy's frames look wonderful, and compared to similar frames offered by bigger houses, they are a real bargain.

Frank

LarrySeiler
07-07-2005, 01:37 PM
thanks Frank...its a privilege talking with folks that are level headed. By that I mean knowledgable, impassioned with what they do and why, and yet make tolerances for others.

Nancy...I might be interested to learn more about what you may offer artists as concerns frames. I too like that black/gold look...thinking it looks pretty sharp. Plus others you have done, quite unique. If you offer such for artists, perhaps you can PM me when convenient...

Larry

blondheim12
07-07-2005, 02:03 PM
Nancy,
Do you make a champagne metal leaf frame? Do you have a website for your company?

Love,
Linda

RI painter
07-07-2005, 04:25 PM
Good Topic going here.
I am in a gallery now that is also a frame shop and they handle all the framing because if they use the artist's frames, they do not want to be responsible for a customer's problem(s) with them later. They take 45% of our agreed retail price before the framing. Not great, not horrible, particularly around here. The gallery shouldering the framing is very good for a PA painter because they can take works on the fly almost right off the easel.
I am fortunate enough to have had my stuff in their front display window since before July 4. Here are some pics:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jul-2005/38670-arnold_1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jul-2005/38670-arnold_2.jpg

I am in another Gallery that does not frame. For cost purposes, I usually sway on the side of economy. ASW's and Graphik Dimension's plein air frames in gold or black have been my choices. They are OK, but when I have a particular competition piece I spend the money on a hand carved,metal (not yet gold) leaf. I let this other non-framing gallery know that if a potential customer does not like the frame or has their own thing in mind, they can remove the one I put on,discount the price, and give them the piece only. It worked for a sale recently.
Jon

Viyi
07-10-2005, 12:59 AM
This is the place I use to buy my frames. This is regular retail. They have a collection of plein air that is good and affordable.
http://www.pictureframes.com/scripts/WebObjects/PictureFrames.woa/wa/ReadyCollection?sec=Plein+Air&browse=Collection


a 9x12 goes for around $24 and there are always discounts if you buy more than 10.

deLYNNEation
07-10-2005, 01:25 AM
This is a nice company also and their prices are the best I've ever found. On the website you can load your images and see how they look in their frames. . . . .they carry the plein aire frames for much less than what I've seen other places. Also, periodically they include a 15% in their catalogs and they have wholesale discounts as well.
http://www.pictureframes.com
I'm bringing this forward to reply.

The metal frames from this company are well-priced with a lot of selection. I've used the metal frames for works on paper. The miters are fair to good.

I ordered some wood frames from this company (which yes, is very inexpensive and user-friendly). The wood frames came but were wood-chip material covered in a cheap laminate. The mitered corners were done badly. You could see the inside of the light colored material, in contrast with the darker laminate. The worst thing was the smell!! They put some type of air freshener / perfumey scent in the wood chip mix. I had to move the box of frames to the garage - it smelled like a cheap potpourri. The frames were labeled 'environmentally friendly' perhaps so but my home environment suffered! I returned them.

One good company that I recently found (beside Florida Frames) is Franken Frames, located in Tennessee. Roger Chase is one of the most helpful people and he usually answers the phone. Samples are available. They have linen liners, traditional plein air and contemporary frame styles. Prices can be equivalent to Florida Frames, depending on style. Website: Franken Frames (http://www.frankenframes.com) Catalog available.

Another good one I've found on the west coast, in Seattle, for metal frames and precut mats: Documounts (http://www.documounts.com) Catalog is also available - many of the framing accessories you need are available here. . . . okay that's my 2 cents, or is that $2.00?

deLYNNEation
07-10-2005, 01:30 AM
Shameless plug for my favorite professional framer in Northern California :) - a real professional! Reasonable prices and meticulous work.

Kwan - here's his website: Kwan's Framing (http://kwansframing.com/)