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LunaGirl20
06-13-2007, 05:45 PM
I want to mix pastels and colored pencil. Would i still need a fixative for that? because of the colored pencil? i hear they waxbloom afterwhile, so they need fixative. But since there is also pastel on it, i hear fixative and pastels dont mix, because it will effect the color of the pastel. So what do i do since i have two media's in one picture, but only one may take fixative.

:confused:

RooGal
06-13-2007, 06:02 PM
I asked someone once how they do pastel and CP's together. If I'm not mistaken, they put down the pastel, fix it and then finish in colored pencil.

Of course, I could have that backwards.

LunaGirl20
06-13-2007, 06:54 PM
But i thought it was colored pencil that was supposed to get the fixative and not pastel?

Bringer
06-13-2007, 09:26 PM
Hi,

Some people do and some people don't.
And both will give you their reasons.
I use fixative. But not as a mean to avoid smudge because it won't.
I use it just to «nail» the more loose particles.
In case you use it remember that the fixative is not meant to «paint» with it, if you know what I mean.
And spray first to the side to see if it's working ok. Always.
And don't spray with your work horizontal or you may get droplets when the spraying falls.
Some people forget that the fixative also protects a bit more against light.
But if you think that you prefer without it, then don't use it. Only you can decide.

Kind regards,

José

Dot Hoffman
06-14-2007, 12:44 PM
To add to José's answer, different brands of fixative deliver different results. For example, Blair darkens the pastels significantly. Lascaux is expensive, but it doesn't darken the colors noticeably. Other folks here might have ideas for other brands.

PeggyB
06-14-2007, 02:33 PM
Experiment on some small pieces of paper and you'll know if this is a method you want to use before going to the time and effort of painting a larger piece.

I suspect RooGal had it right though. First use the pastel and then the colored pencil on top. The reason being pastels don't adhere too well to anything with a "waxy/slippery" base.

Dot is also right. Different brands of fixative give different results. There's also different types of degree of "fix". Grumbacher and Blair both have good "final fixatives" which pretty much seal the pastel from smudging of any kind, but they do darken the pigments. LasCaux and Rowney have good "workable fixatives" that don't completely seal the work, and neither of them darken the pigments very much either. All of them have a finer spray that doesn't leave drips or spots on the surface too easily. Unlike José I do lay my paper horizontally if I'm using fixative. I lay it on a large piece of newspaper (outside on my patio to avoid the potentially toxic fumes). They I begin the spaying over the newspaper and slowly go from side to side working completely off the artwork, and I don't stop spraying until the whole page is covered. When I do stop, it is over the newspaper so if there's a drop it falls there. There are many less expensive sprays that will spatter and drop even with this method so needless to say, I don't use them. They are not only less expensive, they are not archival either. In fixatives, you get what you pay for.

Peggy

Bringer
06-14-2007, 05:05 PM
Hi Peggy,

When I was referring to droplets I meant those that will fall from the air since the spray is made of tiny drops/particles.
You say that you go slow - I go fast - doesn't that tend to darken the colours since you're applying more fixative ?

Kind regards,

José

LunaGirl20
06-14-2007, 05:27 PM
Thanks guys, you all are very helpful. :)

PeggyB
06-14-2007, 08:17 PM
Hi Peggy,

When I was referring to droplets I meant those that will fall from the air since the spray is made of tiny drops/particles.
You say that you go slow - I go fast - doesn't that tend to darken the colours since you're applying more fixative ?

Kind regards,

José

Not when I use the Lascaux or Rowney. Maybe I should have said I go "medium" - neither slow nor fast. :D Using either of those two brands, I can even do multiple layers - thin layers - and get more of a "seal" that doesn't darken very much. Yes, multiple layers do darken somewhat, but not as much as when using any other brand - not that I've tried them all!

The few times I've done multiple layers, I start in one direction and let it dry a few seconds. Then I give the paper a quarter turn and do another light layer and let it dry a few seconds more, then a third quarter turn, and then the fourth quarter turn. The spray of the Lascaux is so fine I've never had a problem with droplets, but maybe I've been lucky?

Peggy

Bringer
06-14-2007, 11:26 PM
Hi again,

I've heard good things about Lascaux and Sennelier (I guess that the name of their fixative for pastels is Latour ?). None of those is available in my country.
The first one I use was W&N, but didn't like it. Now I use Talens and I'm pleased with it.
I was also told that the one from Schmincke is quite good.

Kind regards,

José