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Jeanne-M Turner
03-21-2007, 12:10 PM
I have seen some Sennelier dried egg yolk (powder form) in my local art shops and was told that if I mix this with ordinary guoache colour I would have normal egg tempera paint. Is this so? That seems too easy to me. It would save the expense of investing primarily with the very expensive powdered pigments also on display. I have ordered from Dick Blick a set of ready made egg tempera paints but they have not yet arrived and I would like to know how these compare with the homemade variety. I used to use Daler & Rowney egg tempera paints years ago and loved them but having moved abroad these either got lost or dried up or both and I would like to experiment again with egg tempera. Any advice is welcome. Thankyou.
Jeanne-M Turner. France.

pinkrybns
03-21-2007, 01:14 PM
Hi Jeanne,

I moved your post out of the Art History Forum into this forum which is specifially for Casein, Gouache and Egg-Tempera mediums and their usage.

Hopefully, one of our egg-tempera users in this forum will stop by to answer your question.

At least it's more likely to get a good response here than in Art History.

:)
Judy

JeffG
03-22-2007, 07:27 AM
I have seen some Sennelier dried egg yolk (powder form) in my local art shops and was told that if I mix this with ordinary guoache colour I would have normal egg tempera paint. Is this so? That seems too easy to me. It would save the expense of investing primarily with the very expensive powdered pigments also on display. I have ordered from Dick Blick a set of ready made egg tempera paints but they have not yet arrived and I would like to know how these compare with the homemade variety. I used to use Daler & Rowney egg tempera paints years ago and loved them but having moved abroad these either got lost or dried up or both and I would like to experiment again with egg tempera. Any advice is welcome. Thankyou.
Jeanne-M Turner. France.

My ET experience is only with traditional pigment + yolk medium.

I've heard that yolk medium + tubed watercolor is a way of starting off without having to buy pigments, but does not give quite the handling properties that traditional ET has. I have no idea if that works with goache.

That's interesting, I've never heard of Sennelier dried egg yolk. If you're working in the studio, I wonder why anyone would use that and not just use a regular egg yolk. I'd only use powdered egg yolk if I was far out in the field, wanted to use ET and had no access to eggs.

The basic earth pigments aren't that expensive, compared to the more expensive cadmiums or unusual pigments that I find I rarely use. If you're sure you like ET, dry pigments are the way to go. Plus, they never change or dry up and a small-medium jar can last several lifetimes, depending on how you paint.

I have a 4 oz jar of Indian red, bought for less that 5 dollars. Although its not one of my major pallette colors, I do use it often. It will take me more than 100 years to use it up, and it will never go bad.

dbclemons
03-22-2007, 09:47 AM
You wouldn't need gouache to turn dried yolk into liquid; just water, and if you're thinking gouache would be a less expensive pigment alternative, so would watercolor, which would probably be less "intrusive" to egg tempera paint than gouache would be. Nonetheless, I'd still recommend the traditional method as best, like Jeff suggested. You might see if aqua-dispersion pigments are available where you are. They're fairly cheap too.

mendy1
03-25-2007, 07:21 AM
Why purchase Yolk powder from sennelier??? Extract a yolk from an egg and if you like you can mix it with watercolor if you wisk to avoid the expense and toxic exposure to powdered pigments. It is cheaper and works just as well,

Jeanne-M Turner
03-26-2007, 11:41 AM
Thankyou for your responses. The point of using dried egg yolk is that one would not have to crack a fresh egg each day. Dried egg powder (non toxic) never goes off and therefore, hopefully,unused paint, kept overnight in the fridge in an airtight box, could be continued with until used up.
I ordered some ready mixed Sennelier tube ET form ASW Supplies along with a full set of Shiva casein paint and a full set of system 3 acrylics but two months later I am still waiting and all these are unobtainable in the area of both France & Spain where I live. We suspect that my paints have been stolen en route from Montpelier to my home near Perpignan and I am in a dilemma as to where I can purchase more as our delivery service has been so unreliable. I am also eager to experiment with these paints.
I once had a set of Daler & Rowney ready made ET and they were perfect for some of the work that I have done but they need to be replaced. The local shops do sell raw powdered pigments along with both egg tempera powder and casein powder but having never made my own I am not sure where or how to begin. These powdered pigments can be very expensive to purchase also. £10 to £30 per jar. for each colour.
Any advice is welcome as I wish to learn more. I am returning to the UK for a long weekend so will try to purchase and replace some of my lost paints there.
Jeanne-M Turner. France.

JeffG
03-26-2007, 02:39 PM
I don't think it's going to work that way, but you seem to have your mind made up. Best of luck to you.

:clap:

Jeanne-M Turner
03-26-2007, 03:26 PM
Thankyou for your response. My mind is not made up but will experiment. Just frustrated with the non-arrival of the paints I ordered and not arrived.
Jeanne-M. from France.

Jeanne-M Turner
03-26-2007, 04:28 PM
When I can afford it I will seriously save up for raw pigments and read up on how to make various types of paint. At present I am still smarting over the loss of several sets of paints due to the French postal system and wondering who pays the cost. ASW insurance or me? How does one prove this sort of loss? So far ASW have tried to be helpful but no doubt powerless due to the French language. Other things have been delivered but consumable paints and pencils have gone missing before. Playing Sherlock Holmes is a game I lost interest in after years of teaching despite the fact that my maiden name is Doyle.
Although I live in the same town as Picasso, Matisse, Chagall & Soutine to name a few, and the area prides itself on its attraction for artists, the art shops locally and in Figueras (Salvador Dali's home town) are poorly stocked for out of the normal run of goods. Acrylics, goauche, and oils are their limit with a few pastels thrown in as extras.
Jeanne-M Turner. France.

pinkrybns
03-26-2007, 05:06 PM
I know you said you'll be in the UK end of week and can find what you're looking for there.

But, there is an online French art supplier who does carry Daler Rowney & Sennelier ET in tubes.
Le Géant (aka Gerstaecker)
Their actual store in Nantes is the closest to you, I'm guessing ...
http://www.gerstaecker.fr/gerstaecker_2479.html

The egg-tempera in tubes page from the website:
http://www.gerstaecker.fr/rubrique_1049.html

You could also order from Couleurs du Quai Voltaire the Sennelier magasin in Paris.
http://www.magasinsennelier.com/francais/accueil.htm
Maybe "in country" ordering & delivery would at least make it easier to make a claim (ha ha, probably wishful thinking on my part).

Judy

Jeanne-M Turner
03-26-2007, 05:16 PM
Thankyou very much for that useful information. If I have no success in the UK this weekend I may also take your suggestions to our local shop and if they can acquire these paints for me the problem I have as an individual with the French post may not apply to the shop.
Jeanne-M Turner.

pinkrybns
03-26-2007, 05:35 PM
I do have to agree with JeffG and others though ... using the powdered pigments is actually not as expensive as it intitially looks. I bought a 100ml (120g) jar of Schmincke titantium white and it was only €4.50 (bought locally here in Utrecht). It's more titanium white than I'll probably ever use, so on average it becomes quite a lot less expensive than the tube paints.

And, you could add a few drops of white vinegar to the real egg yolk to increase it's longevity in the refridgerator (I've been reading up! lots of reading!). That way, you'd probably get more than a day out of one yolk.

Whatever you do, Good Luck (Bon Chance! ;) )

JeffG
03-26-2007, 06:07 PM
It's not the pigments vs. watercolor/goache vs. tubed "tempera" issue that I'm hung up on. It's just that I still don't think the powdered yolk is going to give you any advantages.

Just so we understand each other, I'll define these terms: the "egg medium" is egg yolk mixed with water, and the "ET Paint" is the medium mixed with pigment.

I've never had a problem with my medium (1 yolk + 1 Tbs water) staying workable over 2 days, when I have some left over and put it in its dish in the refrigerator covered in plastic. Maybe it could last longer, but I just don't bother saving it longer than that or I use it up.

However, when egg medium is mixed with pigments to make paint, it immediately starts to dry. Unless you add oil to it (like the tube paints), the shelf life of ET paint is less than 15 minutes, in my experience. I don't think powdered egg is going to change this and give you paint that you can keep liquid for days, and still keep it workable.

What surface do you work on? Making gesso is always what I considered to be the most drudgery of ET, so I gladly pay someone else to do it. When I'm painting, cracking open an egg is the easiest part of my day.

pinkrybns
03-26-2007, 06:12 PM
When I'm painting, cracking open an egg is the easiest part of my day. And it also fun to amaze my non-artist Dutch husband when I hold the empty egg sack in my hand! :D :wave: :D

Jeanne-M Turner
03-26-2007, 06:40 PM
Excellent. I will save my money and stick to the real egg. So far, mixing with W&N Designer gouache it seems to work with luminosity, even on heavy paper, but prefer a rigid gesso board. Also, I mix each colour using a mortar in individual china shallow dishes (miniature) and store overnight in the fridge in an airtight box and can still manage another day if sufficient is left. The clarity of colour is stunning in flower painting, especially when varnished. I love to experiment. Thankyou all for such helpful advice. I really enjoy the fine detail this paint gives. Should be good for portraiture also.
JMT. France.

Jeanne-M Turner
03-27-2007, 04:53 PM
visited local art shop and purchased some Sennelier egg yolk medium with some preservative today. once mixed it should keep (they say) for several months without going mouldy. We shall see.
JMT.