what wrong with these pics?

[emogirl]

I'm happy to report that i have my raw workflow problems worked out, my cs2 working fine and have certainly gained alot of confidence and ability in enhancing/fixing photos....but now i have a new RAW question...or maybe it isnt a raw problem at all...
take a look at these....simple edit for size or curves and saved as jpegs from RAW files, sometimes it was multiple things done such as gaussion blur etc.....and they look at weirdly flat greyish tones..other times when i resized for email things went all blothcy.
This has happened on several images from this shoot and again on another shoot. Seems to be no rhyme or reason....do any of you know what is going on with these? RAW files are fine, i usually end up going back to the raw, redoing, then its fine too. What is heck is happening?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2007/69714-20_copy.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2007/69714-58_copy.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2007/69714-21_copy.jpg

this one is fine....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Feb-2007/69714-4_copy.jpg

sorry i didtn resize for wc, didnt have time

[damar]

Hi Kim

OK---you said your RAW files look fine.
I assume the changes are happening after you save in CS2?
Check the quality of the save options
(you using "save to web"?)
My other suggestion would be to make sure the White Balance on camera and in the RAW processing software is set for daylight.
Other camera settings to consider from this shoot: ISO and metering mode

[emogirl]

white balance unchanged for all.... same for iso......its not in the shooting, the raw file looks fine, its something happening when i edit and save as jpeg. I can edit it once, save it, turns out like crap, so i do it again, then its fine!!! argh....film was easier!! ha

[Windy]

Kim, don't use "save for web" use "save as"
Save for web reduces the color gamma apparently and can do weird things with compression.
My own workflow is
do all adjustments (I sometimes save as a high compression jpg here, if I am going to use it for artwork I save as a psd),then for web stuff, resize, USM, save as, jog, at about 6 (look down the bottom of that window and you can see file size).
The thing for ordinary jpg saving is to save at as low a compression as possible (about 11 or 12), this makes for big files but less damage to them.
The greyness is a result of a reduced gamma, the blotchiness I would guess is the result of the jpg compression averaging out to reduce file size.

I have had some issues with styles not showing the way they do in the layers when I save .... I found that sometimes I just needed to reboot the computer to get everything back on track.

[emogirl]

sorry didnt mean to imply that i am using "save for web"...never have, just meant that it was resized smaller for emailing etc...


so the reduced gamma...where is that happeningJ? ...i always use save as, and save as a large size jpeg.....that NEVER changes for me...

[emogirl]

damar..sorry ,missed your second post....iso & metering unchanged.....this is totally at random and it happens every now and again...no rhyme or reason..and its definitely in the post processing as i can have it fine one time i edit and the next time if i edit the picture for a different reason, it goes WONKY...WEIRD!!!!!!
i have checked all my compression issues...etc..i always use low compression etc... i never change things like that.

[Te_Wheke]

Don't know if this would be the same problem, but in CS2 I had a problem with a couple images going all blotchy when I send to print. They looked okay in PS but as soon as I send them to print preview you could see them get all blotchy and the quality went to hell. :confused:

Thinking it may just be a preview problem, I printed them off to see if the prints were crappy as well and they were.

I struggled with it for a while and realised while trying to re-create the problem that I had changed the profile and assigned a different one to this particular image inadvertently and it stunk. This image was old taken with a P&S 5mp cam and interpolated to 10mp which degraded the image quality anyway and the profile change seems to have been the death blow.

I ended up changing back to my normal profile and it looked acceptable once again. The profile I changed to obviously had a very limited colour gamut among other problems. It was lucky that I found the problem as this is a very popular print and I would have been in the poo if I didn't sort it out. :cool:

[damar]

Hi Kim,
I just wanted to make sure about camera settings, cause sometimes buttons/dials get hit when we're handling the camera.

I agree with Wendy, (and especially if your computer stays on 24/7 like mine does) to try a reboot.

One thing I'm not clear on. When you save the original edit as a JPG, do you then--later on--open it up and resize and resave again as jpg?

[damar]

Don't know if this would be the same problem, but in CS2 I had a problem with a couple images going all blotchy when I send to print. They looked okay in PS but as soon as I send them to print preview you could see them get all blotchy and the quality went to hell. :confused:

Thinking it may just be a preview problem, I printed them off to see if the prints were crappy as well and they were.

I struggled with it for a while and realised while trying to re-create the problem that I had changed the profile and assigned a different one to this particular image inadvertently and it stunk. This image was old taken with a P&S 5mp cam and interpolated to 10mp which degraded the image quality anyway and the profile change seems to have been the death blow.

I ended up changing back to my normal profile and it looked acceptable once again. The profile I changed to obviously had a very limited colour gamut among other problems. It was lucky that I found the problem as this is a very popular print and I would have been in the poo if I didn't sort it out. :cool:

I just recently went through a color profile glitch and it was changing all my saved work.
No fun. I detest color managment and color profiles. That is something the industry needs to tighten up, standardize and quit offering up in multitudes when most of us have no desire to become career color managment technicians and specialists! In fact, my Cs2 has been acting up real bad, and I'm considering a complete re-install (if its even possible to totally uninstall the program!)

:eek: Let's not scare Kim! :eek:

:wink2:

[emogirl]

T...yes, it is in the finished prints as well....

Damar...no, im not re saving my jpegs, i go back to the raw file and edit again.

I"m thinking it is a GLITCH>>> as i said, there is no rhyme or reason to it...but considering i have been having some cs2 problems, i suppose i shouldnt be surprised. It hasnt happened since i re installed for my other problem...but then again, its like a car with an intermittent problem you try to show the mechanic...it never does it when you want it too.

I posed the question mainly cuz since i am still learning about allthe enhancementslayers/editing/sharpening and all that stuff, that maybe i am doing something wrong in my editing process? Can i screw up my layering process that would do this....when i'm done making layers i flatten them....isnt that what i am suppose to do?

[Windy]

When you save as a jpg it flattens the layers anyway.
It could possibly be something in your colour profiles. As Te says some have a smaller gamut than others.
sRGB is the one that the web generally uses.... apart from that I am not much use I am afraid.

[damar]

Kim,
I have had problems with Cs2 too...like right now, no matter how I set my palettes and tools, when I drop CS2 in the taskbar and bring it back up, it comes back up in a smaller window and when I click on anything the tools and palettes go behind the Cs2 window---
Then my color profile left me and stuck in something weird..so everything I saved looked off key/blown out/over saturated (pick any ugly you want, and it did it!)
I've gotten aggrivated enough with it to want to try the new version of Elements to see if it's more stable.
I suspect plug ins or a recent Adobe upgrade has messed something up.
Keep us posted.
Sorry, I can't pin point what the problem could be
but check your color settings in "EDIT/COLOR SETTINGS"
from the Cs2 upper tool bar.
Let us know if its set for sRGB etc

[Kallistos]

To make your colours really pop, try introducing a little more shadow and brightness in the RAW editor, or by creating a slight S-shaped curve layer when you've imported to photoshop. RAW files are by nature very flat and lifeless, they are the equivalent of a negative, where you have to bring out the best in the darkroom.

EDIT: Just noticed that might not be your problem! Serves me right for not reading properly.

I've tried a few times to recreate the problem, and the only thing I can come up with is that you're using a strange colour profile or that you're saving at a strange resolution / quality level.

[Te_Wheke]

I just recently went through a color profile glitch and it was changing all my saved work.
No fun. I detest color managment and color profiles. That is something the industry needs to tighten up, standardize and quit offering up in multitudes when most of us have no desire to become career color managment technicians and specialists! In fact, my Cs2 has been acting up real bad, and I'm considering a complete re-install (if its even possible to totally uninstall the program!)

:eek: Let's not scare Kim! :eek:

:wink2:
I hate messing with profiles as well but it's become a necessary evil. My large format Epson printer requires calibrated monitor and profiles for each variety of paper to pigmented inks. What a pain, I wish they could standardize things a bit too.

I have been throwing a monkey wrench into the mix by using other art papers and Canon canvas and papers instead of Epson as I don't really like the Epson papers and canvas much. This causes a whole heap of problems were I need to basically modify Epson profiles or make my own, which I hate with a passion.

Most Epson profiles I've tried look nasty with different papers and Epson Ultrachrome inks, as it should I guess. I do really like the new canon archive papers, and the life span will better match the pigmented inks, which is why I persist. I am not a fan of the canon large format printers yet, though my Canon sales guy is keen to convert me.

I actually get pretty good colour from the standard srgb profile. I have been leaving the Nikon embedded profile on the D80 images and it works out pretty good. Only problem is that with the duel matt black's things always tend toward the darker side. I usually need to tweak everything a bit lighter and run a couple test print swatches.

Sorry for rambling. Though I like PS allot, I am wondering if cs2 is just a buggy app, as I have had quite a few freaky problems too?

[emogirl]

Thank Damar, Charlie & T.... I did check that my colour profiles are correct...at least they are now....as i said, intermittent problem...one minute its fine, the next i have a wonky picture. I dotn touch anything i dont know...especially in regards to that colour stuff, so i just have it on rgb/8. I know that i am saving at a proper size....like i said...i never changed anything, so maybe T and Damar you are right...BUGS!!!! I havent had it since i changed things up regarding the other problem with the shortcuts, so maybe i'm fixed...for the time being.
thanks for your help everyone.....maybe cs3 will be better? or maybe ishould go back to ps7! never had any problems there, but i like the things i can do in cs2!

[Rich]

I had the same problem in CS2. I figured out that if I am saving for the web to use the sRGB profile and if saving to print use the Adobe RGB profile. That will match the Gamma to the final output.

Do not let Wet Canvas resize your posts. It does strange things to them.

Do a light sharpen AFTER resize.

[emogirl]

thanks Rich.... I will give that a try.

the sharpen thing...i have had so many different ideas on that, i dont know what to choose!

[Rich]

Kim, for me a light sharpen would be in the unsharp mask area to use settings of 30, 2 pixels and 4 threshold.

[emogirl]

i do a differnet sharpen for every pic....but when to useit...photoshop tutuorial suggest you use it several times during an edit process...some say only use it once before you resize, some say after you recess!!! so many options!!! it gets confusing!

[Rich]

It is best to sharpen once and make it the last adjustment you do.

[Windy]

Kim as a general rule I only sharpen once at the very end of my adjustments as the act of sharpening destroys pixels. (Unless of course I am doing things to get a specific effect in layers or folllowing a tutorial).

[emogirl]

thanks guys, that has been my practice, but you read so many things!!!

[Windy]

thanks guys, that has been my practice, but you read so many things!!!

I agree, there are a lot of different methods of doing things out there.

I just had a very strange thing happen with my CS2, the colour decided to go really contrasty.
I ended up going into my colour preferences, changing it all, closing it, then opening it and rechanging back to my original ones, closing and then restarting it again. I am not sure if it is quite right but it certainly is better than it was.

[emogirl]

HI all...I finally figured out my problems regarding my previous post of 'whats wrong with these pics".....I tried everything you guys told me and nothing was right. I kept plugging away and getting really PO'd and more problems etc....

so, the weird 'flat' grey looking pics, (if you had nothing to compare too, you might think they look fine, but i knew better) They looked fine as raw files, but when converted to jpegs appeared like someone held something dark behind them.... it was the working profile not matching the embedded colour profiles!!!! I got everything on the right 'wave length' and now all is fine. I figured it out by going back to ps7 and seeing if i was having the same problem..when i opened the file raw or tiff or psd, it said the working & embedded didnt match....after a bit of playing around with cs2 and nikon view..i got everything matched up, same as i had in ps7...all is good now!

i have everything set now to srgb with embedded profiles off.

The other problem with the weird splotchy image....it was not flattening the layers before doing my canvas size!!

I tell ya....its quite a process!! I'm glad to have these kinks worked out before wedding season begins. In the meantime, i had 3 families for portraits over the weekend, and 1200 files to edit...i dumped 1/2, so i guess I'm now down to 600 files to process. ahhhhhhhh....i'm getting much faster now!! Glad i got those problems solved.

Thanks for all your help...even if it didnt help in that case...i learned about other stuff and I appreciate all your knowledge.

[Windy]

:clap: good to know Kim.
I am having problems with profiles at the moment too, as well as an lcd monitor that wont calibrate (as I think it should) ...... now my monitor profile looks as I think it should but nothing else seems to match .......... everything is opening up in Photoshop way too dark. That sounds a bit convoluted.
I am not sure what I have done and am now feeling like a sleuth trying to work it out :(

[Te_Wheke]

Thanks for the update.

I was looking at that original "Whats wrong with these pics" thread regularly for an update.

The symptoms looked to be profile related as we discussed in that thread. My blotchy prints looked similar to the ones you posted. I traced my problem back to a profile conflict as well.

Good on you for correcting you problem, and posting an update. This will help others who have similar problems to find a solution, or at least point them in the right direction.:thumbsup:

[damar]

Kim..good going!!!
:thumbsup:
You had posted a color profile that you were using that wasn't even listed in my version of Cs2, so I guess that had something to do with it.
Glad you have had success in getting things back in order!
:)



:clap: good to know Kim.
I am having problems with profiles at the moment too, as well as an lcd monitor that wont calibrate (as I think it should) ...... now my monitor profile looks as I think it should but nothing else seems to match .......... everything is opening up in Photoshop way too dark. That sounds a bit convoluted.
I am not sure what I have done and am now feeling like a sleuth trying to work it out :(

Wendy, I just went throught the same thing (about 2 weeks ago)....I mean THE same problems. I think one of the Adobe automatic updates did it.
It's still not back the way it was..when I open a jpg file by right mouse click--open with Cs2..I have to assign a profile. (as Kim mentioned)
My LCD monitor will NOT calibrate. The range of settings/adjustments for the actual monitor is too narrow for SpyderII.
I'm going to go back to using Adobe Gamma, altho right now, my son was able to get adobe to work and not change the image colors when saving.
I was almost ready to toss Cs2 and go get the latest version of Elements (which now has curves and level adjustments)

[Windy]

Wendy, I just went throught the same thing (about 2 weeks ago)....I mean THE same problems. I think one of the Adobe automatic updates did it.
It's still not back the way it was..when I open a jpg file by right mouse click--open with Cs2..I have to assign a profile. (as Kim mentioned)
My LCD monitor will NOT calibrate. The range of settings/adjustments for the actual monitor is too narrow for SpyderII.
I'm going to go back to using Adobe Gamma, altho right now, my son was able to get adobe to work and not change the image colors when saving.
I was almost ready to toss Cs2 and go get the latest version of Elements (which now has curves and level adjustments)

Damar coming to think, I did update CS2 recently. At this stage, monitor is calibrated as best as I can get it (am seriously considering getting something like the Spyder). PS has sRGB assigned as its working profile. It seems to have a more limited gamma than the monitor profile (in fact sRGB seems to look more like a CMYK profile .... very odd), I then have to look at the image in proof mode using the monitor profile ...). Now my problem is, I am not sure what others are seeing in my images. More tests to be done.

[emogirl]

I'm glad my solution helped...and hopefully help others in the future. I was using cs2 defaults, i changed nothing.....cuz i didnt know anything about that stuff!!! Problems are the best way to learn...but wish i hadnt spent so much time on it!

[emogirl]

Btw, one thing i forgot to mention....these flat colours were most noticeable on skin tones....it wasnt bad at all on scenery, i have re done some shots and notice a slight difference...but on skin, WOW...life is back! hallelujah...i'm so glad i foudn the problem....wonder what is next???? ha

[Windy]

Kim at least in a place like here we can bounce ideas around until a solution is found or suggested.

(hehe the email notifications have a screwy link now that the the threads have been merged)