View Full Version : OK, big problem
04-12-2002, 01:02 AM
I WAS so happy with my new computer.
I have 90g drive space, 1.6mhz processor... some 250M fancy RAM, BUT
I have been told at Kinkos, they do large format printing 100% 300dpi .tif pictures.
I have a 13 x 21 piece which I scanned as a tiff, am stitching together, have my new cdr to make a disk and I KEEP GETTING LOW RESOURCES and can't save it!!!!!!!!!
ok, I think the finished file MAY end up 600MB or more, but ...
Can I do something that will increase my available memory...
Seems like a long time ago I read about Swap files or using drive space for RAM overload...
Am I having some bad trip flash back, or is there some way WITHOUT ANOTHER upgrade to accomplish this feat?
(hey, I even stitched it in 3 pieces, assuming the overlaps would eat space, I stitched jpgs and tried to save as .tif... I have tried EVERYTHING to get around it, but I am stuck.)(OH and I shut off every program I could find and got 85% system resources free before I even started to stitch!!!)
04-13-2002, 05:18 PM
Be sure every other program is off when you stitch. If that doesn't work you mak need to increase the size of your RAM.
04-13-2002, 08:16 PM
Using your hard drive as extra RAM is called Virtual Memory. I think this is usually set to allow the computer to allocate what it needs.
04-13-2002, 08:41 PM
...geeks are what we over here call computer expert. He says I CAN configure my virtual to use my hard drives but it comes with a caveat that I could freeze up my system if not done right!!
I am thinking of ONE more way.
I am going to try to manually stitch it in my corel draw. I used to do that, but the stitch is so convenient. It is already slow as molasses, but I MIGHT be able to merge two files at a time without the utility of the stitch... seems like it has to do a lot of math....
Any one know if I can sort of reinflate a jpg? If I could stitch it as a jpg and open it and save it as a tiff how ugly do you think it would be?
04-13-2002, 09:08 PM
No you can't reinflate a jpg. Once you have compressed an image into a jpg, some information is lost - that's why it's called a 'lossy' file type. Also remember that each time you save a jpg more information is lost - so it's worth keeping original files somewhere safe.
04-13-2002, 09:15 PM
... the original scans at least, but the stitching is where I am stuck.
May go to the store and price an extra 256... ooo I can hear is sizzle now!!!
Before you drop more money on ram, or reconfigure your pc's virtual memory, call your service bureau or Kinko's and speak with the manager or someone who definitely knows about dpi requirements for their color output. Depending on the printer they use, your file may only need to be 125 to 150dpi. Just because the printer prints at 300dpi doesn't necessarily mean that your file needs to be the same 300dpi. Also, ask if your file needs to be cmyk or rgb. This will also affect file size.
If a lower dpi requirement is the case, your files will be much much smaller at 125dpi and probably your pc will be able to process the stitching and saving of your images. A rule of thumb with ram and maximum file size (in Photoshop anyways) is that you need 3 to 5 times the amount of ram to work on a file of a certain size. For example, if you have 250mb of ram in your pc, only have your photo editing program open, then you should be able to work on a 50mb to 80mb size file.
04-14-2002, 03:04 PM
I got the 300 dpi from the KID there. It seemed undaunting at the time.
It is my bargain basement effort at giclee. I have two, a pastel - the bigger, of course - and an oil which I am trying to make files for. They have a canvas texture paper and I DO have the required file to print as initially requested but assume it will not be PRINTER specs, as it is coming off the jetprint copier...
You are making me think about this....
I have both corel and photoshop but they are antiques... photshop 4 I think.... and have tried to use it more, because it seems to have less tricks and just runs faster. Do you know if there is a specific stitch type function on it? I have not come across it and may try the merging by eyeball in it, even tho I am more comfortable in the corel photopaint... just had it longer.
I will be on the phone in a minute getting the correct info.
Do YOU have any suggestions on making a short run of posters or prints just to start? I have cheap but interested people. One is making me crazy trying to buy a piece I want to sell for $800 but trying to bargain me out of it. I WOULD like to make something, and if she keeps pleading poverty, I thought a reproduction at $100 would shut her up.
Have you used kinkos? Or OfficeMax or any national type place?
They have a $10/sq. ft web type inkjet printer on heavy matte paper I want to try for the pastel. I have not rigorously sought any plain paper type printer, but my minimum dimension is 15 inches.
The FILE is daunting, and I sort of thought some low end repros, in nice (Pretty and cheap from Mexico) frames, might catch the eye of those who don't GET what they are paying for.
Priming the pump so to speak, so I can see if there might be a market for higher end printing.
Thanks for replying, fig, I REALLY appreciate it!
(oh, and as a point from a mathematical dyslexic, the 6 files I am merging are 26,000kb each with lots of overlaps, I DON't think we are approaching full CD, but I am really bad with zeros. More like 80mb? does that sound right.... STILL huge ...)
Yes, I have used Kinko's before. I found it to be a good resource if you talk to the people who are experienced with your type of print job. At my local Kinko's, that's the manager. The price you mentioned sounds about right.
Since I bought my Epson inkjet a year ago, I haven't had to go to Kinko's for colour prints. My prints are smaller than letter size, so my inkjet works just fine for my needs. I have more control over colour and paper too.
You sound like you're going about making your large format prints the right way. The place where you take your files to get printed would be the best place to ask about dpi, rgb vs. cmyk, tif vs. jpg, etc. for their machine. One thing I'm sure you're aware of is that the colour will shift from your home printer/pc to their printer. So, my suggestion is to do some tests before you order your final prints.
I have used both Corel and Photoshop. But it's been several years since I last used Corel Photopaint. I think I remember a clone tool, or rubber stamp tool? Photoshop has this as well, and this is what I would use to stitch images together. As far as I know, Photoshop doesn't have a dedicated stitch function. It just takes a lot of patience to manually stitch images together, but I like having the manual control over any finely detailed areas of my images. Also, I like using the layers in Photoshop for stitching images together. It makes things a lot easier to see while stitching. Not sure if Corel has layers.
If you have six files you need to stitch together, you would probably only work on two at a time (the two edges you need to stitch together). Your pc will probably be able to do this with 250mb of ram.
I was just wondering why you haven't decided to take a photo of your painting, then scan the photo as one single piece, thus avoiding stitching altogether?
As for cheap but interested customers, well that's a totally different story......
04-15-2002, 04:12 PM
I regularly worked with 100mb+ 300dpi tiff files on a PIII 450 with 256 mb of ram without getting low resources or memory messages.
A Low Resource message does not necessarily mean that you have insufficient physical or virtual memory.
04-15-2002, 05:31 PM
the dpi is not the problem. I think it is the 100%
it is a 1/2 sheet of arches watercolor, 15x21 inches picture size.
I have stitched 6 scans into 3 scans and when the merging of even two large scans ...like we end up with 2/3 and 1/3 of the picture, it seems to be the FINAL size that is not making it.
I was distracted after I last posted this and might yet make kinkos today.
the color shift is going to get me and BAD....
I am have a teeny canon and a hp printer. the colors are so different out of both machines, I dread the big one!
04-16-2002, 08:44 AM
From what I've tried , a .tif file sized 15" x 21" at 300dpi will be about 81.1 megabytes which is fairly large. If you have a new machine which has windows XP , it uses some more resources than windows 98 did. 256 megs is just barely sufficient for large files.
If you're going to work with these files often , you should look into getting a 512 meg stick of RAM. If your computer has one stick of 256 in there now (or even two 128's) , you'll have 768 which would be awesome :evil: :D
I've set up my computer with as little things going on in the background as possible. I go to start and then "run" and type in "msconfig" and on the window that appears, I click off any programs under the startup tab that I didn't want starting on startup (it's hard know what some are so it's up to you to try them :D ). I left my wacom pen and a couple other things as I need them. Anyway , I don't know your system so it's up to you but I've seen some people's systems where they have so much junk taking up resources that they were down to like 65% free.
04-16-2002, 01:55 PM
Have you looked around for a place w/ large format scanning capabilities? The $100 or so you'd spend on having it scanned could save you lots of time and aggravation trying to stitch it together.
04-16-2002, 06:28 PM
the money I spend on the upgrade will be such FUN on the computer!!!
And the $100 is all I was going to charge for the print, so we are on different budgets!!!
04-16-2002, 08:31 PM
I stitched it in corel.
overlapping and matching up the three big scans.
I saved it rgb and cymk and am going to see if anyone there can print me up an inch or so to see if I got the color right!!!
What does that msconfig do?
I just alt/ctrl/del and shut down the ones I had a clue what they did.
Is there a faster way?
Which ones do I NEVER shut?
I seem to remember years ago there were like four you needed but not sure which they were?
Will let you know how smart they are at kinkos!
04-16-2002, 11:26 PM
in the msconfig window, under the startuop tab you can uncheck the ones you don't want starting at computer startup. These can be all sorts of things. CTRL-alt-delete quits things running at present but each time you start your comuter , they always are there again.
Of course it's up to you what you uncheck and some of the things are hard to know what they are . Technically I think just systray and explorer need to be going for the computer to work but if you have a drawing tablet, other mouse, joystick or cable modem (etc) those things should be left too if you want them to work at startup
Anyway , I take no responsibility if you try this and smoke starts pouring out of you computer case :D :evil: :angel:
04-16-2002, 11:46 PM
It smokes already... grinds and whirs and just sits still a LOT...
I must be much nicer to it.
04-19-2002, 01:24 PM
So the longer you use your computer, the slower computing feels -- we're assuming you're running Windows 98 here. The slowdown occurs because the programs you run take up a lot of the system's resources.
There are a several ways you can free up resources to regain your perfomance. You could reboot your system regularly, but that's a pain, especially if you tend to run lots of applications at the same time. You should always kill off any applications (and windows procesess) you don't need. There are several ways you can do this:
Quit the application from within the application itself.
Locate your StartUp folder (do a "Find File" to locate it, it should be somewhere in your WINDOWS directory). Go in and delete the program's icon, which will prevent it from launching when you start up Windows.
Disabling programs within MSCONFIG (follow the steps below):
Go to the Start menu
Within MSCONFIG, click on the Startup tab
Uncheck the applications you do not want to launch at start up.
Turn off the System Tray icon for anything you really don't need at startup. I routinely shut 'em off for the RealPlayer, Winamp and MusicMatch. Not only will that free memory and clock cycles, your system will boot faster.
Make sure you haven't filled up your main hard drive, generally the C: drive if you store your operating system and applications there. The slowdown that happens if you pack that drive right up to the brim (say with a video or audio file you're just created) is amazing. Make sure you've got lots of room left on that drive, at least 100 megabytes.
Let's check the memory situation on your system. Download AnalogX's MaxMem. A "realtime physical memory management program", MaxMem frees up physical memory in your system, either automatically, or when you tell it to.
Yes, once you launch it, it runs in the System Tray, but it's tiny. And it frees up memory your main applications, whether something massive like Photoshop, or as benign as Outlook.
04-24-2002, 12:15 AM
It has been a week since I talked to someone who appeared to know at lease the difference between a .tif and a .jpg. My clue should have been when she said I COULD use the jpg, but I was trying to impress it was the quality I wanted.
I asked if they could proof. All I wanted was a 1" strip FROM the printer, off the top or anywhere at 100% so I could see what quality my file was becaue I was not in the mood to pay for them to edit my file.
Next day, I come in to find two lovely reductions. Neatly printed 6x6 pictures of the two pieces I wanted to see the color balance for. The one I was going to have done on their canvas texture made me happy as a clam (it was not done on canvas, as that needs ordering, but it was all the right colors... in a week, they would have the paper) BUT the one I really needed the sample of looked very dark and dull, but since it was like 18th the size, I reasked them to print just ONE INCH of the file, 100% so I could see if it was the printing or the file. IF it was the file, I would go adjust it. That was Friday.... of course the guy who KNOWS how to run the press would not be in until MONDAY.
Noon monday I come to check.....:mad: I have this very impressive 4" strip but the image is double maybe triple the size...
(THAT took me ten minutes to get the attention of someone, just to pick up the proof!)
I stood for I would guess 15 more minutes, the girl calls across the work area..."Are you waiting for something?" I say yes. "Is it ok?" I say no.
5 more minutes... she yells, "What is the problem?" I explain it is impossible to tell what it will look like because it is way too large. She calls out to the man, nearer me asking why it is so big.... he says "I can't hear you." Continues doing what he is doing, which looks like punching buttons and diddling......3 more minutes...
He saunters close enough to her to hear and she asks again... "I printed what I got." she repeats it loudly to me.... I ask if it is because I got a 200 dpi file and she says that makes no difference..... :confused:
I explained I wanted it the same size as the final print. She yells to the guy who is actually closer to me than she is..."why is it big?"
At this point I enquired if the guy needed an interpretor, or was there any way I could possibly talk to him directly (YES it is as weird as it sounds to you...!) She explains he is the only.... inaudible.... and he is working.
5 more minutes....."... so can I just take this home and see what I can come up with to try to adjust it what I see wrong?"
"Sure" she calls out.
POOF! I am gone.... and I won't be back.
I NEVER imagined it would be SO hard!! I really think it is making me crazy because I am the only one who knows what I am talking about.
Many years ago I was in ad art. I know the difference between cymk and rgb and have corrected transparent printers proof and press runs (HECK I used to spec for linotype!!!!) and nobody does anything but push buttons! OUTTA MY WAY! I CAN PUSH THEM JUST AS WELL!!!
on to round two, but not this week.... I HOPE!!!
If Kinkos was a restaurant, it would be a fast-food hamburger joint that doesn't do it YOUR way, but just microwaves its precooked burgers.
04-25-2002, 11:38 AM
wow ... sorry to hear of all the troubles. I personally will never go back to kinkos after going there really only once to do some work. I brought several floppies holding page sized images at 300 dpi to print. They were flat colour images so they were pretty small gif files which could fit on floppies. The place was almost empty yet it still took almost 30 minutes for me to print those darn images. Their Photoshop would freeze for a bit at the open file box and then once an image was sent to the printer it would be minutes for the image to start printing. I forget the final price but I think it was like $25 Canadian for the 3 8.5"x11" printed sheets I got. So I'll never go back.
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