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View Full Version : Care Of Sable Brushes...?


Todd March
04-10-2002, 10:06 PM
I have now invested in a good array of sable brushes for oils. Caring for my sables for water based mediums has always been easy--BJ soap and water, but I am wondering what kind of care is necassary for the more volatile medium of oils...?
I can't imagine frequent exposure to turpentine is good for sable...?

guillot
04-11-2002, 10:15 AM
I would suggest looking back through some of the threads posted here in the oils forum. I remember, not too far back in the past, there was an in depth discussion on cleaning brushes.

I do not have ANY sables :( . Saving up for a nice set of those. But a sable is still a brush, and I would think that the same applies to all natural brushes. I don't believe turps are going to hurt them no more than any other natural brush, but of course, never leave a brush just sitting in turps for a long period of time. Clean them, and put them away.

:D Anyway...........I'm babbling as usual. I'll see if I can find that thread for ya.

guillot
04-11-2002, 10:31 AM
OK, This is one of the threads I was talking about. Full of great techniques from various people.

www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=threadid=33353 (http://)

paintfool
04-11-2002, 12:02 PM
Thanks Gulliot. :) To add my 2 cents worth, i see no reason to treat sables any differently than synthetics.

Scott Methvin
04-11-2002, 01:16 PM
Hello all,

There are 2 basic types of "sable" brush hairs. Neither one is really sable at all. Both are collected from weasel tails.

Red sable is asian/chinese (called weasel tail by the industry) and Kolinsky is a different weasel from Russia-Siberia. Both types of hairs are conical and have a tapering belly. Both end in a fine point. This is a very different shape than a bristle or ox or synthetic.

Kolinsky is more of a golden color. Female hairs are used and are not as good as the male hairs. The male kolinski hairs have more strength, which gives the brush a snap-back quality found in no other type of hair. The female hairs are slightly better than the basic red sable.

Cleaning the two types with terpentine is not recomended. It dries out the hairs and they don't ever get back to their original silkiness. I used to use BJ's Master soap for a few years until I tried the Ugly Dog sold by studio products. There is nothing better on the market. I have tried them all.

I wash on average, about 10 sables a day. So I know what I'm talking about. I use them all for oil painting. Some are 3-4 years old and in perfect condition. I honestly think they get the greatest wear from being cleaned.

Luis Guerreiro
04-11-2002, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Todd March
I have now invested in a good array of sable brushes for oils. Caring for my sables for water based mediums has always been easy--BJ soap and water, but I am wondering what kind of care is necassary for the more volatile medium of oils...?
I can't imagine frequent exposure to turpentine is good for sable...?

Mate,

Sable is not a good hair for oil painting.
A mix of sable and other hair may be better.
To paint in oils, I would recommend:

1. Chuncking Bristle brushes
2. Standard Bristle brushes
3. Synthetic hair high quality "REFLEX" brushes (also good for acrylics)

Bristles hair is shaven off the back of chinese pigs usually, so that is OK.
Personally, I do not recommend the use of mink, sable, badger and mongoose hairs. For your information, brushes made of these come from left-overs of the INFAMOUS FUR INDUSTRY. Animals are killed, some of them risk extinction (mongoose and badger), their fur used for fur coats and the tales used for brushes. Such practice is CRIMINAL and I have no doubts to recommend to the authorities that the Law should have the Fur Industry people arrested and brought to Court for a criminal practice. Russian sable is known to be the best, especially Kolinsky and again, the practice is the same: The fur ends up on the back of a "rich bitch" and the tale ends up between your fingers in the form of a brush. Try synthetics of high quality and performance whenever possible.
Please forgive me the honesty, but I am fussy about having inocent animals blood in my hands and NEVER NEVER NEVER for the making of ART.
Luis:)

Mario
04-11-2002, 04:09 PM
I was thinking about asking a "sable" related question and here is this thread. great!
I have a bunch of "sables" and have been using just Ivory soap and water to clean with good results. Lately, I've been painting a lot more and so began to dip the brushes in Turpenoid to clean and to final clean before the soap and water. It saved me several minutes of cleanup time, maybe 15 or 20 minutes each time I washed up. Well, my brushes are now almost unusable after just two weeks of this "treatment" and I wasn't sure wether it was the Turpenoid or just the extra wear. Now, after reading Scott's post, it must be the turpenoid. The hairs are all flayed out in every direction, making the brush unusable for anything but backgrounds...these are number 16's and 20's. Does anyone know of a way to rescue them? Can anyone confirm that; yes, it was the thinner that did them in?? Many thanks for all replies.

paintfool
04-11-2002, 04:29 PM
Mario, i cannot confirm anything as far as what the exact cause for this is. BUT i do have a solution of the splayed ends. If they're not too bad you can clean them thoroughly and then take a small piece of paper towel and wrap the bristles in it. Get it wet with a few more drops of water and shape it with your fingers. Lay it flat to dry. As the paper towel dries it contracts and brings those splayed ends in with it. Once it's completley dry you can remove the paper towel. This has worked beautifuly for me.
Scott, there's that Ugly Dog soap again! I've heard so many good things about it. You'd think i would have ordered some by now!:rolleyes:

Scott Methvin
04-11-2002, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Luis Guerreiro


Mate,

Sable is not a good hair for oil painting.
----------------------------------------------------------

Depends on how you paint. If you are an impressionist, I would agree.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I do not recommend the use of mink, sable, badger and mongoose hairs. For your information, brushes made of these come from left-overs of the INFAMOUS FUR INDUSTRY.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Kolinski weasels are trapped and not raised on farms, like mink and sable. Mink isn't suitable for brushes. Neither is sable, the kind they make coats out of. Badger hairs are used to make shaving brushes, primarily and blenders.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Animals are killed, some of them risk extinction (mongoose and badger), their fur used for fur coats and the tales used for brushes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brush hair is a by product, not the primary reason for cultivating pelts and tails.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Such practice is CRIMINAL and I have no doubts to recommend to the authorities that the Law should have the Fur Industry people arrested and brought to Court for a criminal practice. Russian sable is known to be the best, especially Kolinsky and again, the practice is the same: The fur ends up on the back of a "rich bitch" and the tale ends up between your fingers in the form of a brush.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kolinsky is not sable. Different type of weasel.

------------------------------------------------
Try synthetics of high quality and performance whenever possible.

----------------------------------------------------

Such a brush does not exist in synthetic. Tell that to egg tempera or watercolor painters. Squirell (not synthetic) is close, but they are trapped in Russia also.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Please forgive me the honesty, but I am fussy about having inocent animals blood in my hands and NEVER NEVER NEVER for the making of ART.
Luis:)

-----------------------------------------------

Luis, I understand your concern but where does it end? How do you feel about rabbitskin glue. or a good steak? How about shoe leather? Chew on this, most of the cosmetic brushes (made in china) contain dog or cat hair. Creepy?

Leopoldo1
04-11-2002, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Mario
Does anyone know of a way to rescue them? Can anyone confirm that; yes, it was the thinner that did them in?? Many thanks for all replies.

Mario, by the appearance you described of your sables, I think they are gone. You might though, want to wash them again but this time leave residues of soap cleaner in them and mold to shape, wrap by securing a piece of paper around them until dry. Most likely they have been overworked and will continue splay out!

It could be thinner or what you painted on! Sables do have their use and should be relegated to soft delicate passages and not over rough badly primed supports especially the rough acrylic store bought canvases.

I make my own soap. Pen another forum member here, had a really good recipe which I followed but with the addition of linseed oil. Basically it is Kirk's Castile soap, glycerine and linseed oil heating slightly until the 3 are fully combined in a gorgeous sauce. Does wonders!......L

Mario
04-11-2002, 05:02 PM
Thanks Paintfool, I'm trying your remedy now.
Thanks Leopoldo, yes, it was when I switched from painting on Print Paper to store bought canvas boards that the problem appeared. I will reserve them for delicate passages in the future.
Any other opinions on this topic are welcome, please don't hesitate to post your experiences.

guillot
04-11-2002, 05:24 PM
ummmmm Leopoldo, you make it sound as if it is edible. Will have to try that recipe (not internally of course). I would suppose this soap works wonders on not only sables, but others too?

Ugly dog soap does work very well! After all of the references I've read, I had to try some. Bought it a couple of months ago. Pretty Good Stuff!!

now, I need to quit buying soap..........and get me some sables :evil:


Whoops......forgot....Thanks for the great info Mr. Methvin. Now I know why some "sables" are so much more expensive than others.

Tina

vallarta
04-11-2002, 05:41 PM
I still think the best way to clean a brush is....

1. whipe out as much paint as you can in a towel or a paper towel/

2. Dip it in GOJO which is the alo treated mechanic hand cleaner sold in most hardware or auto parts stores. It is a white thick goo that you can dip the brush into and then work it in the palm of your hand.

3. Then put the brush under running water and work the brush ....repeat steps 2 and 3 until the water runs clear.

4. Shape the brush with your fingers and then lay HORIZONTALLY and let it dry.

thats it!

vallarta

Luis Guerreiro
04-11-2002, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Scott Methvin

Luis, I understand your concern but where does it end? How do you feel about rabbitskin glue. or a good steak? How about shoe leather? Chew on this, most of the cosmetic brushes (made in china) contain dog or cat hair. Creepy?

Scott,

I also know the issues regarding the necessity of real hair brushes for the purpose of painting.
For oil painting, I see no need to use certain types of hair. In Europe badger and mongoose are indeed used for oil painting. Nor just shaving brushes. The difference is that bristles are just shaven off the back of pigs and that's fine, no real harm is inflicted on the animals. But other types of hair, I have to say, Scott, the practices among fur farms are horrendous.
Rabitt skin glue is today anything but the product of rabitt skin for the most part. Slaughter houses sell skin and bones for all sorts of industries, from footwear to RSG.
The issue is what practices go into the production of whatever. Most essential products involving the killing of animals are in Europe regulated by the strictest laws and the suffering of animals has INDEED been taken into account. But the fur industry (from where our lovely brushes come from!) escapes the legal framing of all this and practices as far as respect for the animals is concerned, are a complete disaster. Of course, there is no point in mentioning China. We all know only too well how much savagery goes on in China, not just about animal rights, incidently, I have to say.
Perhaps a couple of photos of what happens in the fur industry speak more than one thousand words. These photos are exactly what puts me off completely buying real hair brushes from certain types of animals. Buying badger, mongoose, sable, etc keeps this criminal industry going and the carnage will never stop.
Today modern synthetic hair industry has developped so much that at least in OIL PAINTING, apart from bristles, one can choose excellent synthetic filament brushes and do away with hair brushes we all know, come from such criminal industries. The issue is important. Do you know how mongoose, badger and other animals are killed for their fur? They are electrocuted through the anus. It's just so horribly cruel!!! And what about trapping? Animals are trapped alive and left in the most horrid pain for hours, sometimes days.

Todd March
04-11-2002, 07:04 PM
Luis,

I certianly hear you about animal cruelty, and I have always been at odds with the higher end artists brushes, as I know that they are a by-product of the fur industry...

But I have Kolinsky sable brushes (WN Series 7) that I bought as a young art student 22 years ago, and they are still in wonderful functional condition after regular use for over two decades. Having tried everthing out there to avoid perpetuting animal cruelty (I am a professional "dogoligist" here in California and adore all animals), I have never found anything that can compare to the paint holding capabilities of a Kolinsky sable, nor it's ability to hold a point for fine detail.

So despite my strong convections against the rape and pilage of other species on earth by humankind, I do admit to wearing leather Nikes and using sable brushes...

I haven't used them in oils long at all, so we will see (I am checking out synthetics as well), but for mediums such as watercolor or (most primarily) egg tempera, I feel that to not use Kolinsky sable brushes is to actually compromise ones work in these mediums.

I have meet many artists who had no idea of the industry and sacrifice behind the making of their natural hair brushes, so I do think it is important that Luis brought these issues up, as I think all of us creative people who pick up a natural animal hair brush should stop and think about where it came from and thank the creature who sacrificed its life for our tools (something I learned from some Buddhists--I also thank the animals who gave their lives for any meat that I consume; thanking the creature for their sacrifices while on earth is at least heading in the right direction toward karmic cohesion between mankind and animals)...

It had never been, and still isn't, an easy issue for me...

Thanks for letting me ramble on...


Todd

Luis Guerreiro
04-11-2002, 07:05 PM
The photo shows a fox being electrocuted through the anus, for its fur. The same method is used to kill other animals, such as badgers and mongoose, which supply hair for fur coats and tales for brushes. I know it is shocking, but these are the reasons why I can't buy such brushes:

Mario
04-11-2002, 07:23 PM
Thanks Vallarta, Actually I did visit a hardware store and bought the only Go-Jo they had left, a huge 2 kilo container. I have not opened it yet thinking that maybe Id better get a dispenser or something. Ive been looking fot the web address of the company but no luck. How do you suggest I use it? Should I just take out some put it in a dish or something? Will it be OK in the open air and just keep like soap or should it be in a closed bottle, for example.? thanks again.

lori
04-11-2002, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Luis Guerreiro
The photo shows a fox being electrocuted through the anus, for its fur. The same method is used to kill other animals, such as badgers and mongoose, which supply hair for fur coats and tales for brushes. I know it is shocking, but these are the reasons why I can't buy such brushes:


the ultimate image for cartesian philosophy gone awry.

that is about the most revolting image i have ever seen in my life.

i have always been against fur, but never thought about the larger implications of what they actually do to the poor animals...

it'll be a long time before this hubris image of comsumption leaves my memory.

lori
04-11-2002, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by lori




that is about the most revolting image i have ever seen in my life.



actually...i'd like to add the image from leo too, just saw it on the other page...

my god, how do we live with ourselves?

Luis Guerreiro
04-11-2002, 07:29 PM
Todd,
The issue is not the use of animal products for human consumption. I also eat meat, wear leather footwear, etc... So there is no hipocrisy about it.
The Issue IS: Cruelty inflicted upon animals. The fur industry, which supplies ALL hair types for all the brushes as mentioned above in the thread, is known and proven beyond any doubt to be cruel. The keeping, breeding and killing of the poor animals is so cruel that buying such brushes is just NOT ON!
This is a mink in a cage. SABLE are treated in exactly the same way:

Luis Guerreiro
04-11-2002, 07:36 PM
Before being turned into fur coats and brushes:

Luis Guerreiro
04-11-2002, 07:50 PM
I can't specify what the body is, maybe a fox, a mink, sable, perhaps a mongoose. Does it matter? The issue is the same, regardless of the type of animal.
How many of you are angry with me? I know it is off-putting, but the respect and consideration for the poor animals is worth the effort and the commitment, I'm afraid I can't avoid it.
Regards
Luis
:crying:

impressionist2
04-11-2002, 09:32 PM
Luis,

I had to skip over your photos just to get to reply to this thread. You could hear me going EEEeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuu.

I don't wear furs and wish others would not, but I think a few bristles on paint brushes isn't going to wipe out the animals. At least I hope not. I like Todd's way of thanking the animals.

Anyway, the reason I soldiered on through this thread was to respond to this sentence of yours:

"Mate,

Sable is not a good hair for oil painting."

With all respect, I have to disagree. I thought the same thing until I took class with Christian White. You may not know his work. He's kind of low key, but in the galleries around here, he sells his plein air paintings. They're expensive and he sells a lot of them.

Sables are all he uses. I started using Kolinsky Russian Sables shortly afterwards and now I use them for everything. Guillot, if you're still reading, they are great.

They load up completely with oil paint and apply so smoothly. They are perfect for plein air painting and I disagree that an impressionist would not benefit from them. Christian works left to right-top to bottom. The brushes give the smoothest most beautiful look.

Mario, I would say your turps did the brushes in. I do not even use soap and water on mine. I swish them till they run clean in vegeatble oil and they stay perfect. Maybe once a month I use soap and water but not regularly.



Renee

Todd March
04-11-2002, 10:35 PM
Mario and others, regarding Go-Jo--I would NOT use this on sable brushes. I have used these after mechanical work, and it cleans like a charm, but it dries out your hands far worse than turpentine does; in short exactely what you DO NOT want for sable.

I really like Renee's idea about vegetable oil--I can see this working like a charm and would actually be quite benefical for the hair. I bought a jar for brush cleaning with a coil in the bottom for agitating the brushes, and I am going to fill it with inexpensive vegetable oil and only use soap sparingly for all my Kolinskys in the future.

As we have seen in this thread, these brushes come with blood and karmic debt on them, and when you choose to use them, they needed to treated with the upmost care and respect so that they will only need to be replaced as infrequently as possible...

Todd

Pen
04-11-2002, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Leopoldo



I make my own soap. Pen another forum member here, had a really good recipe which I followed but with the addition of linseed oil. Basically it is Kirk's Castile soap, glycerine and linseed oil heating slightly until the 3 are fully combined in a gorgeous sauce. Does wonders!......L

I must have been reading your mind, since I too now use linseed oil. :) MUCH better!

paintfool
04-12-2002, 12:00 AM
Forgive me for straying off topic for a moment but i'm intrigued with Todds statement about being a 'dogologist'. What is this? Is this related to dog behavior? I am interested because i have a rather unusual circumstance regarding a stray dog at this time! He's a little stray (i believe a drop off) I was a bit alarmed on Saturday when this guy showed up in my yard (fenced in yard, mind you). He's a pit bull. A small one but a pit none the less. I have two cats and two dogs so i became concerned and put him back outside of the yard. He found his way back in. Several times! He's very sweet and is remarkably good with my pets, including the cats. The funniest thing is that he attatched himself to my male dog. My dog is lab and sheppard but looks like a pure black lab. This stray is so in love with my dog, Gordon, that's it's downright funny! If Gordon gets a drink of water the stray is right there next to him. If Gordon moves two feet the stray does the same. He absolutley won't leave his side. Not for a second. The whole time he's whining and crying. This makes me believe that maybe this dog was raised with another large black dog and has found some comfort with Gordon. At any rate, i cannot keep this dog. Believe me if i didn't already have two dogs i would but three are more than i can handle. We kept him for 5 days in the hopes of finding his owners. We ran an ad in the paper to no avail. Finally after making numerous phone calls to friends and begging them to take him we felt that we had no choice but to take him to the Humane Society. With much reserve my husband did exactly that. Yesterday. He told them that he was a very sweet animal and was very good with other animals blah blah blah. I swear as i sit here.... that dog is BACK!!!! Yep, he escaped from the humane society and came right back to our house! He's out there right now following Gordon about! We were stunned as we sat in the window looking at this!!! Now laugh if you will but ordinarily i am able, to some degree to communicate with animals but i can't get anywhere with this one. Why is he here??? Why us?? Now what???? I feel so guilty about even thinking of taking him back to the Humane Society. He sure is tenacious! I really don't want three dogs but i am at a loss as to what to do next. Again, i'm sorry guys, for getting off topic but i'm just really.... well i don't know WHAT i am! Shocked???:confused: This is weird.
Cheryl

Todd March
04-12-2002, 12:36 AM
Hi Cheryl,

I call myself a "dogoligist", as although I earn the bulk of my living through grooming the pets of the rich and famous in Malibu, a good groomer is always so much more... After 14 years I can read dog behaviour and nutrional issues like a book... I spend a lot of time with my clients in training counseling, nutrional guidance, etc... To simply call me a groomer is an understatment for sure!

Your stray pitbull, wow, what a story... I think if it were my house, I would come to the conclusion that the forcse that be would like me to care for this animal. Nothing in this world, I am convinced, is random, and this dog going out of his way to find you twice is more than just magical--it is downright mystical and of the stuff that is most unexplainable and wonderful and god-like in our lives... It is easy to call the dog "tenacious", but do not fool yourself into thinking that the dog is in charge here...!

And as long as you have two dogs already, I have found most people barely notice the addition of a third!

If you decide to take him back to the human society I implore you to check with them regarding their policy with pit bulls, as chances are they will destroy him... MOST of the Animal shelters in this country destroy any and all pitbulls (even dogs that look very pit bull-ish), and they will NEVER adopt them out to families, because of the breed's undeserved reputation... Honestly, pit bulls are among the sweetest and nicest and most intelligent dogs I have known, and I have NEVER had a pit bull, ever, give me any problems (minature schnauzers are another story!). Pits are among the easiest dogs I have ever worked with to train; truly wonderful temperments that unfortunately with aggressive handling can me modeled to be very savage...

Hope this helps...

Todd

paintfool
04-12-2002, 12:45 AM
Yes, thanks Todd, this helps tremendously. Actually my husband and i did wonder and worry about them destroying him because of his breed, but really didn't think of it until after he had taken him to the Humane Society. I shall tell my husband what you said and i have a feeling that this will have a huge impact on any future decisions made on muttlys behalf. :) I think i will try to contact some pet rescue agencies or no-kill facilities. If that doesn't work we just may have to accept the fact that we are a three dog family..... At least he's one heck of a watch dog and so ugly he's cute.

guillot
04-12-2002, 01:07 AM
Lovely Story Cheryl :D

Luis - OMG! Can't they just shave the poor guys?? I'm with Lori on this one...........don't think I'll forget those pics for a long time!! Unfortunately.........It's all in our lousy human nature, we are all animals ya know. Some of us are just a bit more sensitive. I use bristles mostly, and otherwise synthetics...........have to rethink those sables now. THANKS :rolleyes: I have a huge conscious :(

Scott Methvin
04-12-2002, 12:48 PM
Man, Luis what are you doing to us? Now I have to wash my eyes out with clorox.

Yes, animals are killed all over the world for a thousand reasons.
Yes, it is sad as hell. (So much of life is)
Yes, I love animals (I have 3 doggies)

No, I don't want to watch sausage being made.
No, I don't wear fur.
No, I don't think using the best possible brushes is wrong.
No, I don't eat veal.

Call me callous. Call me politically incorrect.

It is a slippery slope to start getting all up in arms about all the injustice in the world. I had a next door neighbor who fed rats and stole my traps. I kept wondering what was going on until I caught her. She was PETA to the core. I understand it, but cute rats are still rats. I don't want them in my house.

This is an argument that can have no reasonable conclusion. I respect your position and I won't try to force mine on you. No more photos please.

Scott Methvin
04-12-2002, 12:53 PM
What a great story! You absolutely have to keep this doggie. He has done evrything but talk to you!

Tell us how it turns out

Here are 2 pics of my newest dog, Sparticus. Maybe they will help erase the above horrible pics?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Apr-2002/a.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Apr-2002/sparticus.jpg

paintfool
04-12-2002, 01:31 PM
OMG! What an adorable little dog! The second picture made me laugh out loud! That's a classic shot. My husband came to see what i was laughing at & he laughed too.
After reading Todds words we've decided to keep the dog. The temporary collar the the Humane Society put on him had him labled as 'Boo Boo' but i think his name is Farley. Now to make time to get him to the vet. He'll be needing some attention. After we made the decision he took his first bisquit from me. Until now he had no interest in them. I think he knows he's home. I wonder if i should call the Humane Society and tell them that thier escapee will not be comming back.
Cheryl

Doug Nykoe
04-12-2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Todd March
I have now invested in a good array of sable brushes for oils. Caring for my sables for water based mediums has always been easy--BJ soap and water, but I am wondering what kind of care is necassary for the more volatile medium of oils...?
I can't imagine frequent exposure to turpentine is good for sable...?

I look at cleaning a brush this way…. When painting, the brush is impregnated with oil and pigment; the oil acts like a lubricant not unlike oiling a squeaky hinge on an old door. Which releases the pigment onto the surface without subjecting the hair to abrasion. When it comes time to clean the brush this is where the trouble starts as I see it. We need to release the brush of oil and pigment with the least amount of abrasion as possible. By replacing the old oil & pigment with new oil and allow the old to get out as smoothly as possible. Squeaky-clean is not a good thing where brushes are concerned.;)

Sunlight Dish washing liquid Gojo etc. are all oil strippers and will yes, get the oil and pigment out but at what cost to the sable? This is why a fat soap such as what leopoldo suggested or B&J or Ugly Dog soap are important IMO.

I myself like to keep my brushes in an oil soak between painting sessions then clean them once a week.

BTW doesn’t GOJO have pumice in it?

Pen
04-12-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by paintfool
I swear as i sit here.... that dog is BACK!!!! Yep, he escaped from the humane society and came right back to our house!
Cheryl

Remarkable. I'd say that determined dog was meant to be with you.

Pen
04-12-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by paintfool

After reading Todds words we've decided to keep the dog.
Cheryl

YEAAYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!

lori
04-12-2002, 03:44 PM
glad to see you with a new pug scott!

that's the spirit...

sending warm fuzzy doggie vibes to you and your wife!

pax.lori

Leopoldo1
04-12-2002, 04:09 PM
Cheryl,

There is a big "FAT" message there for you! I am glad you are keeping it because I was going to offer for you to send it out to Oregon and I would have paid shipping and handling.

How far is the Humane Society away from your house? I am curious if you talk to them how he got away? Sounds like a good script for a Disney Production! My wife is sending your post to her daughter in Alaska, another wonderful animal lover!

Good choice and my best to you!............L

Scott Methvin
04-12-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by lori
glad to see you with a new pug scott!

that's the spirit...

sending warm fuzzy doggie vibes to you and your wife!

pax.lori

Thanks Lori,

If you recall from earlier posts, we lost our 12 year old pug. We decided from various sources that a bulldog was too much of a vet magnet. Our new little pug has been the best therapy we could get.

I need 3 pugs to help me paint.;)

lori
04-12-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Scott Methvin


Thanks Lori,

If you recall from earlier posts, we lost our 12 year old pug. We decided from various sources that a bulldog was too much of a vet magnet. Our new little pug has been the best therapy we could get.

I need 3 pugs to help me paint.;)

yeah, that is exactly why i posted to you. i am happy that you got right back on that horse (as it were) and got a new pup. i agree about the bulldogs, although if you're rob...it's not a problem...lol.

hey, by the way, i thought about you the other day as i had a bad breakfast at greeter's...unfortunately the only cafe still serving breakfast...where is the best breakfast in laguna??? need to know, as i am spending more and more time there lately...

actually my husband and i are looking into purchasing a place there, need to get out of LA...ALREADY! ugh...

paintfool
04-12-2002, 05:53 PM
Leo, i have no doubt that you would have taken Farley in :) Actually the humane Society isn't all that far, i'd say about a mile. But there are any number of unfenced yards between us and them, where he could have landed. His little nose is torn up from tunneling under our fence. I put some panalog on it and it should be fine. I did call the Humane society and they said the he climbed a four foot chain link fence. They seemed more than pleased about the fact that we're keeping him. I told them that i wanted my dogs collar back, since they removed it and replaced it with this paper one. :D I think they took me seriously but i'll just get him a new one.

Scott Methvin
04-12-2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by lori

hey, by the way, i thought about you the other day as i had a bad breakfast at greeter's...unfortunately the only cafe still serving breakfast...where is the best breakfast in laguna??? need to know, as i am spending more and more time there lately...

actually my husband and i are looking into purchasing a place there, need to get out of LA...ALREADY! ugh...

In this order...
French 75
Surf and Sand
White House

Greeters sucks. Tourist trap. They don't care if you ever come back.

Only Surf and Sand has a great ocean view, and it's $$$

(White House has only one table you can see the ocean, but cheap)

French 75 has best food. Also $$$

Bon appatite'

doug
04-12-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Leopoldo

Pen another forum member here, had a really good recipe which I followed but with the addition of linseed oil. Basically it is Kirk's Castile soap, glycerine and linseed oil heating slightly until the 3 are fully combined in a gorgeous sauce. Does wonders!......L

Leopoldo,

Would you share the recipe? Is it equal parts?

Thanks,

Doug

Einion
04-12-2002, 06:07 PM
Sable and Kolinskis certainly need more TLC than others to maintain their superb attributes over the long term and considering their price you're really obligated to!

Using them appropriately is the first line of defence, as Leopoldo mentioned if you paint on any heavily-textured support it will have a detrimental effect - friction is friction. If your painting technique is very robust I would recommend using something cheaper, a good synthetic will probably last longer used in that way. Nobody mentioned it but technique plays a part in how rounds age - rolling them into the paint rather than just sticking them into the centre of a stiff pile is a good idea. And trying to keep paint to the top third or half of the brush during use is worth trying - it's hard for pigment to build up at the base if it doesn't get there in the first place. I know these sound frivolous but they really make a big difference. And of course it goes without saying that you not use them to mix paint!

Thorough cleaning is a must to prevent buildup of pigment near the ferrule but I think Scott is right, they do seem to get the most wear during cleaning so treat them gently. After whatever cleaning method you prefer, some sort of lubrication/conditioning really is necessary otherwise they will age fast - splaying, losing spring, hairs falling out or even breaking off, etc. I use hair conditioner and it works well but glycerine may be the best conditioner for natural hair brushes which is why it is a great ingredient in brush-cleaning soaps and if you want to make your own it is cheap, easy to get and very effective.

Before storing brushes after use it's a good idea to reshape them with saliva (don't do this in your mouth) as this helps them dry in shape.

Technical question for anyone, leaving drying oil in your brushes is bad for their condition right? If so why is linseed oil a good additive for brush cleaners?

Einion

mirza
04-12-2002, 06:07 PM
Cheryl, I was so freaked out by this thread this morning I almost didn't look at later posts... but I'm so glad I did! We have a pitlabhound--looks like a longer softer brindle pit--who could not be more of a sweetheart. He was hard to train (what? come? hunh?) but is maturing into a very pleasant fellow. The only drawback is that he LOVES other dogs but is our lonely only (so we find him at the neighbors' a lot). Great good luck with Farley(funny how their names become clear to you); blessings will rain down on you.

Einion
04-12-2002, 06:16 PM
1, 2, 3 awwwwwwwww. I lean more towards cavaliers myself but pugs sure are cute.

On the serious side, since you use sables so much which brands have you tried and which would you recommend? I'm looking for alternatives to Series 7s which are overpriced and the quality is not as consistent as it used to be.

Einion

Einion
04-12-2002, 06:22 PM
Luis it's certainly true that animals farmed for their pelts are treated very poorly but have you seen what the average chicken operation is like today? How is one acceptable and the other not? As for the emotive photo of the skinned fox if you think about, it how is it different from the Christmas turkey?

I don't want to knock anyone for their feelings but if you're not a vegetarian you're being completely hypocritical about the issue of animal rights. If you don't agree then I suggest you visit a slaughterhouse for yourself to see how cattle, sheep and pigs really are treated and killed, then see if you can justify the moral outrage. The meat/leather industry is not much different from the fur business when you get down to it.

BTW think about this the next time you reach for your Chungking bristles after a ham sandwich - pigs may be more intelligent than dolphins, they're certainly smarter than dogs.

Einion

Leopoldo1
04-12-2002, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by doug
Leopoldo,Would you share the recipe? Is it equal parts?
Thanks,

Doug

Actually, this is Pen's recipe but I modified it a little.

Take a bar of Kirk's Coco Hardwater Castile soap and shave it into a old sauce pan. A potatoe peeler works great. Kirks stuff is tops, it is made with selected coconut oil, hypoallergenic and is never tested on animals. No animal by-products for those sensitive to the animal issues! Add some water, not too much, but only enough to make a workable paste. More can be added later. Let it sit overnight so the soap softens up. Put over a low heat and continue to stir. At this time I add a tablespoon of glycerine and continue to stir. More water if needed. I then add the linseed oil, about a quarter of a cup plus or minus and continue to stir. Watch the heat, because too much heat causes it to get foamy! (Pour it over your pasta along with a good glass wine and light a candle and enjoy the moment) Kidding! I then pour it into old margerine containers and let it cool. Add the margerine lids after it is cooled. It is very liquid when heated and pours well into containers, but sets up to a wonderful firm workable paste ovenight. I always add a bit of water into the margerine container on top of the finished soap after cleaning brushes along with the lid. This adds a bit more moisture and juicyness to the stuff for cleaning ones brushes for the next painting session. It lathers up in the cup of your hand in a rich creamy gooey solution that draws the paint out of the most stubborn brushes. It works wonders....Have fun!............L

Einion, linseed oil is never going to dry in this soap solution but only aids in lubrication along with the coconut oil and the virtues of glycerine. I am sure other oils could be used like olive oil or any of the vegetable oils.

impressionist2
04-12-2002, 08:44 PM
Todd, I paint without turps so my Kolinsky's bear no damage. Plus, when cleaning, do not pull on the bristles. I carefully squeeze the vegetable oil out of the hairs onto a paper towel, till the brush runs clean in the oil. otherwise some of the bristles will fall out from the tugging.



Mirza, I almost didn't come back either, but boy am I glad I did!

Cheryl wrote:After reading Todds words we've decided to keep the dog. The temporary
collar the the Humane Society put on him had him labled as 'Boo Boo' but i
think his name is Farley. "



This just makes me so happy! I believe our animals find us and this dog has your name written all over him, Cheryl.


Scott, My daughter in laws pug , aptly name "Pugsly" is the best dog around my grandson. He is so sweet and affectionate. Your dogs are beautiful.

Renee

Doug Nykoe
04-12-2002, 10:08 PM
You can always count on me to be trivial so here goes…. In oxidization the oxygen molecule, which is small in size, joins one end to the oil and one end to the pigment and when this happens the oxygen grows and takes on weight estimated at 28%. This growing is what causes the hairs to snap under pressure near the ferrules. It’s a good idea not to allow the paint near the ferrules in the first place.

Soap molecules attach themselves to the oil at one end and the water at the other. When cleaning is completed, oxidization doesn’t have a chance because there’s not much oil left and nothing really there to oxidize. The general idea here is to replace the bad oil with pigment with the clean oil and keep the pigment lubricated on it’s way out of the brush as you gently clean in the palm of your hand. If you use surgical gloves to clean with then be even more careful because you don’t want to pull on the hairs. My little take on it:)