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View Full Version : opening a can of worms...


shutterbug lady
11-09-2006, 01:28 AM
OK, I'm going to open a big can of worms here. I hope you will give your honest opinion but not offend.:evil:
My first camera was a Nikon film camera XX years ago! I was always impressed w/ them ever since. BUT, when I finally decided to go digital, I went Canon (no idea why). I love the canon and have several pieces of equipment that go with. However, I am ready to upgrade and am seriously thinking about going back to Nikon (D80). I have read all sorts of pros on both cameras but I want the cons. What does everyone have difficulty with, and what do you love the most (in not so many words...). I have read about Nikon's hotpixel issue, I have read that Canon 30D is better at faster speeds. I trust the professionals on this site (yes, I've checked dpreview.com and also nikoncafe.com). Please help! (P.S. I have someone interested in buying my equipment when I'm ready...)
Thanks soooo very much

Rachel

Windy
11-09-2006, 01:44 AM
Rachel I can't help you much here as I have not gone down the DSLR path. I would say however that both sets of cameras are highly regarded. Try holding them in your hand and see which feels best.

damar
11-09-2006, 07:38 AM
Wendy made a good point; hold them in your hand and see which feels best.
Also look at available choice of lenses, the cost of the lenses and who else makes lenses that fit the cameras (that can offer comparable quality vs cost)
ie: Sigma, Tamron, Tokina

tomreese
11-09-2006, 10:04 AM
How serious do you think you might get with your photography? If it's possible that you'll invest some serious money in it then I think Canon is the better choice. The Canon system seems to be more complete and they offer a full frame digital body.

Oldthumbs
11-09-2006, 01:16 PM
Sorry, I don't have experience with exactly those cameras. I have a Nikon D70. I looked at the Canon Digital Rebel, but did not like the construction or fit, particularly compared to the D70.

The Canon 30D only has an 8.2 MP sensor, compared with the D80's 10.2 MP, so in my opinion that is an immediate disqualification. Actually, feature wise, the D80 is more comparable to the Canon EOS 400D / Digital Rebel XTi.

For me, one of the biggest determining factors is how much new equipment I will have to buy with a new system. With an investment in lenses and memory cards, I would be reluctant to change now. BTW - Canon uses Compact Flash memory cards, while Nikon decided to go with the SD card for the D80.

I know, you probably already knew all that. :rolleyes:

Ray

emogirl
11-09-2006, 03:06 PM
Rachel, I have owned manual Minoltas and automatic Nikons over the years. I just recently purchased the d80, which is my first digital slr. I have to say, I am certainly still learning the ins and outs of digital, so all that stuff about hot pixels etc...go over my head!!! Despite the fact that i already had nikon lenses, i did look into the canon line, but for the price & the 10MP...couldnt beat the the d80.

I love the FEEL of the d80 in my hands, its comfortable...heavy, but not nearly as heavy at the d100 or d200. It feels solid and well made.

I find it extremely user friendly....and the quick access buttons for the usual stuff, menu, iso, viewing, timers, continuous shooting...etc...all quickly found on the camera and adjusted with thumbwheels. I really like that i dont have to turn a switch to view pictures and go back into shooting mode.

the only 2 drawbacks that i have found are....ISO rating...only has low as 100 but up to 3200??....i wish there were 64 or 25 iso.
and...the pop up flash....the pop up flash is a great fill flash, however, you cant turn it on...only auto mode or you can turn it off....but that is minor, i use a secondary flash mostly...though, for some situations, it would be nice.

Overall..love the camera!

shutterbug lady
11-09-2006, 07:47 PM
The Canon 30D only has an 8.2 MP sensor, compared with the D80's 10.2 MP, so in my opinion that is an immediate disqualification. Actually, feature wise, the D80 is more comparable to the Canon EOS 400D / Digital Rebel XTi.

For me, one of the biggest determining factors is how much new equipment I will have to buy with a new system. With an investment in lenses and memory cards, I would be reluctant to change now. BTW - Canon uses Compact Flash memory cards, while Nikon decided to go with the SD card for the D80.

I know, you probably already knew all that. :rolleyes:

Ray

Thanks everyone for all your input. Ray, I have considered everything that I would need to buy in order to switch (I have my list ready!). After I held both cameras in my hand, I had to say I really liked the feel of the D80, and one (of many) of the convincing factors is that if I am going to upgrade, I want to take two "steps" to a 10mp instead of one step to 8mp. SD cards I have found are somewhat cheaper (good point). I agree w/ you about the ISO - they should consider lowering the range to 25 or 60 instead of going up to 3200. What can you shoot at 3200 that you can't do at 1600? I wasn't aware of the Canon feature of the full-frame; also, does anyone have a comment on the different sensors in each? what about cleaning?

These are all great points and exactly what I need to hear!

Oldthumbs
11-09-2006, 10:07 PM
The Canon full-frame cameras are their higher end cameras, which will cost 3 to 8 times as much as the Rebel or the D80. You cannot use the Canon lenses designed for the APS size sensors, as the full-frame sensor cameras use the same lenses as the 35mm cameras.

I wasn't the one who mentioned ISO (that was Kim), but I have an opinion. :D I believe the 3200 ISO (and 1600 ISO, to tell the truth) in most cameras is useless because the images get too noisy at that ISO (larger sensors are less noisy at a higher ISO). As far as the low ISO goes, most cameras are essentially noise-free at an ISO of 100, so there is no real need for a lower rating. I personally haven't found a need for an ISO lower than 100. Heck, the lowest my D70 can go is 200!

I don't think that you will see any practical difference in the sensors. All DSLRs are subject to getting dust on the sensors. I have heard of some cameras which now have something that shakes the sensor to knock the dust off, but I don't believe that either Nikon or Canon offers that. I'm not sure that would work anyways. You'll have to blow the sensor off occasionally and, if your camera needs it and you are daring, you may eventually need to wipe the sensor off, or take it in to be cleaned. That will be the same for Nikon or Canon. As far as quality of sensor, I think that they are pretty equal in quality, but I'm not a tech junkie when it comes to the fine points - maybe someone else is.

Ray

Windy
11-10-2006, 04:42 AM
Ray I think the new Canons have the sensor cleaning technology.

Oldthumbs
11-10-2006, 09:18 AM
Ray I think the new Canons have the sensor cleaning technology.
Yep, looks like I'm behind the times on that. However, it appears that only the Digital Rebel XTi has the vibrating low-pass filter that is supposed to remove dust from the sensor. I don't see where any other Canon DSLR has it. Since I don't have any experience with it, I don't have any definitive opinion, except that I do hate dust on the sensor. :rolleyes:

Ray

emogirl
11-10-2006, 12:12 PM
yes, the nikon d80 as the vibrate the sensor thingy...

Oldthumbs
11-10-2006, 12:26 PM
yes, the nikon d80 as the vibrate the sensor thingy...
Are you sure, Kim? I can't find anything on the Nikon site that gives that in the specs, nor do I see any mention of it in any reviews of the D80.

Ray

damar
11-10-2006, 04:21 PM
Kim, the D80 doesn't have the vibration sensor cleaning...you may have seen in your menu options "image dust off" which is a reference photo that you take and use to compare subsequent shots.
http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/d2x_dust/d2x_dust-off_reference_3.html

shutterbug lady
11-10-2006, 06:48 PM
thanks again for all the info. I did check the nikonian link and found it somewhat helpful. It didn't make my decision any easier.

The only other question that I have is about the program used to download photos and make changes to them. I found the program sent w/ my Canon very easy to use. What about the Nikon one? I have a co-worker who has the program and will let me try it out to see (she has the D70). I'm frustrated that w/ the D80 came the chage to SD cards instead of CF. Oh, well.

Windy
11-10-2006, 06:52 PM
I have 3 cameras so I just use the Windows browser to download. ACDSee for batch renaming, and image rotation (you can do adjustments there too I think Rob uses it for that), major stuff is Photoshop and I am trialling the Adobe Lightbox Beta program which seems to have some nice features.

meriadoc
11-11-2006, 12:47 AM
ignore the whole difference between 8 and 10 megapixels. Are you going to be printing large (ie bigger than 20x30) ? If not, the difference will not be noticeable, unless you crop heavily. But if you shoot without requiring to crop later, I wouldn't bother with the difference between 8 and 10 megapixels.

I've tested the difference between 8 and 12 megapixels (20D and the canon 5D which is full frame), and you only start to notice differences when it is a larger sensor at LARGE prints (24x36 and up)

The more pixels crammed into the same amount of space generally leads to more noise issues than what you would normally see.

In terms of lower light situations, the higher iso's in canon cameras are much cleaner (and I've heard that from even die hard nikon shooters - to the point where they hate going up to 800 ISO because of the noise), but as a canon shooter I've shot stuff at 1600 and 3200 ISO and been able to print large without issue.

I'd personally stick with the canon, because you've already got CF cards for the camera, and as I said, the difference between 8 and 10 megapixels is negligible.

Oldthumbs
11-11-2006, 09:20 AM
ignore the whole difference between 8 and 10 megapixels. Are you going to be printing large (ie bigger than 20x30) ? If not, the difference will not be noticeable, unless you crop heavily. But if you shoot without requiring to crop later, I wouldn't bother with the difference between 8 and 10 megapixels.
You're a much better photographer than I am, Lisa. I'm afraid that I take very, very few photographs that I don't need to crop, so I'm always grateful for the extra pixels.

In terms of lower light situations, the higher iso's in canon cameras are much cleaner (and I've heard that from even die hard nikon shooters - to the point where they hate going up to 800 ISO because of the noise), but as a canon shooter I've shot stuff at 1600 and 3200 ISO and been able to print large without issue.
I'm afraid I got a little carried away when I said that 3200 or 1600 ISO are practically useless. They are not, but they DO get noisier, and I prefer not to boost the ISO unless absolutely necessary. I have no direct experience comparing the Canon to the Nikon, but everything I have read says that Nikon has made some excellent improvements in noise control in the D80, and it is MUCH better than in my D70. (Ah, to have the money to upgrade. :rolleyes: )

As far as programs go, Nikon is pushing their Capture NX software right now, but I have no need for it, and I don't think it would give me anything over what I have right now, particularly since they are charging for it. My D70 came with Picture Project, which I never use. I downloaded and use Nikon View (which I like) for transferring photos from the camera, but I edit everything using Photoshop CS2 (I shoot using RAW almost exclusively). Please don't go by what I do, though - I am NOT a professional photographer, and if I were I think I would need to find a much better workflow solution.

Now tell us, have you decided? Have you gone to the camera store and picked them both up in your hot little hands? Which do you like?

Ray

meriadoc
11-11-2006, 01:18 PM
You're a much better photographer than I am, Lisa. I'm afraid that I take very, very few photographs that I don't need to crop, so I'm always grateful for the extra pixels.

Ray

Ray - unless you're severely cropping in (like to within say 30% of the original image)- which seeing your shots I doubt you do anyway, and unless you're blowing up poster size I doubt you'd notice a difference.

In fact there was an interesting discussion over on one of the other sites I visit when it comes to full frame vs digital the actual benefits over cropping down from larger megapixel cameras (in this case the 5D) to get the same view from a 20D.

PM me and I'll link you

Te_Wheke
11-13-2006, 05:10 AM
I've got the D80, it's a great camera, with decent kit lenses. I suggest you Go to the camera shop and try them out side by side, they are so close in features and picture quality that it may just come down to things like feel.

The sensor cleaning is cool, but if you are careful when changing lenses you should not have much of a problem for a while, and by the time you need to clean the sensor either send it to someone to clean or learn to do it yourself.

And the D80 needs a manual sensor cleaning like Windy said.

regards
TW