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Aspiring
11-02-2006, 04:21 PM
I read somewhere a year or so ago that one could mix water based oil paints with acrylics. Then I think, but am not sure, I read not to. I would be most appreciative of some help in this matter.
I think watercolor is going to be replaced by acrylics after giving W.C. my best effort. Or a combination of both.
Thanks for your input.
:confused: :confused:

timelady
11-02-2006, 04:57 PM
They are not water-based oils, they are water-mixable oils. They are still oil, they simply changed a molecule so they won't repel water, making cleanup easier. As such they still won't mix with acrylics (well, they *will* to the extent that you can mix anything if you really want to ;)), because their properties when dry will still have the differences dry oil and dry acrylic have.

Tina.

Lady Carol
11-02-2006, 05:19 PM
You really shouldn't mix the two. They are completely different mediums and should be treated as such. Maybe you are thinking that oils can be painted over acrylics. Not the other way round mind you.

Aspiring
11-02-2006, 05:26 PM
Thank you both. I'll use my h2o oils with my regular oils then. I know if the right percentage is used that is okay. Right? If not they former are going in freecycle. Am reducing my stores of hobbiesl Like polymer clay. What an investment!


No I wasn't referring to oils over acrylics of vice versa. I am sure on that score.

dspinks
11-02-2006, 09:56 PM
At least one brand of H2O oils claims you can mix with acrylics - let me go check my reference (Sean Dye's Painting with Water Soluble Oils). . .

Here 'tis: Holbien Duo Aqua and Van Gogh both claim they can be mixed with acrylics.

But, I haven't tried doing so myself, nor do I know firsthand of anyone who has, so I won't comment further on that issue.

You can mix your WS oils with regular oils, I believe it's up to 25% regular oils, and still maintain water solubility. If you use a higher percentage of regular oils, you would then treat the WS/regular oil mix as regular oils, using turps instead of water to thin and clean up with, and regular oil mediums.

Debra

Aspiring
11-02-2006, 10:02 PM
Thank you for your research, Debra. I'll just use them with my regular ones and be done with it.

Jane

dbclemons
11-03-2006, 11:01 AM
I remember when I first read that (mix water-miscible oils with acrylics) years ago, I first thought it rather wacky, wondering why one would want to, and then figured it might at best just make these oils dry a bit faster. It does seem to do that rather effectively. You can also just use acrylic medium. Adding acrylic paint seemed to make the oils rather pasty, as I recall, otherwise it worked okay I guess. I don't like the idea of painting oils on top of acrylics myself (not an ideal bond,) although some people say that's okay, so I would only use it as a complete technique.

timelady
11-03-2006, 11:25 AM
It's also worth keeping in mind that, as far as I know, none of the H20 oils are considered artist quality, if you're concerned about that kind of thing.. That was said by a member over at the Cowdisley group whose opinion I highly respect, and he works in research and conservation.

Tina.

Aspiring
11-03-2006, 12:39 PM
Thank you all. I just became a purist except possibly in water medium, but even that may become pure acrylic. To think I hated them one day not too long ago.

Jane

dspinks
11-03-2006, 04:23 PM
I believe the Holbein Duo Aqua are the only artist quality WS oils.

I know that Winsor Newton are not (I asked them a couple of years ago), but it is not that they are overfilled with binder, more that they do not use any of the heavy metals, etc. WN is what I started with, and I've gotten very nice results.

I've never painted in regular oils, but do enjoy painting with WS. Once I got the mixing technique down, they worked out fine, and I love the easy cleanup.

Debra

Aspiring
11-03-2006, 04:33 PM
I haven't used them for about three years but I remember thinking they were sticky. Now that may have been only when I used acrylics mixed with some. I should try them with water alone, or do you use some kind of medium even though they are water mixable? Just as acrylics have a medium as well as water. My tubes of the oils are actually dusty!

Jane

dbclemons
11-03-2006, 10:14 PM
I haven't used them for about three years but I remember thinking they were sticky. Now that may have been only when I used acrylics mixed with some. I should try them with water alone, or do you use some kind of medium even though they are water mixable? Just as acrylics have a medium as well as water. ...

That "stickyness" as they dry happens using some (but not all) of them as is, and eventually goes away. The biggest annoyance I have had is some being rather dry in the tube and hard to squeeze out, even when brand new. That caused me to give up on buying more Max or Artisan and stick with Holbien Duos. I also had several tubes of Max where the caps cracked. I've never tried the H2Oil. Lukas has a line called Berlin that I also haven't used. (P.S. there's much discussion on these in the Oil forum.)

You can use them with just water, but don't dilute them too much (into a runny wash.) There are some water-miscible mediums available, as well as some that are alkyd and dry more quickly.

Grumbacher sells an exclusive line of Max2 that are student grade, and the Artisans have several paints that are "hue" colors.

Aspiring
11-03-2006, 10:23 PM
I dug them out today, since I've opened the discussion, and tried out one tube, Red Iron Oxide by Windsor Newton. Squeezed some out and played around with some brush strokes. I was nice and creamy and slick even with a minimum of water. I have mostly W.N. and a couple Max.
The stickiness I meant was in the brushing, not after it was laid on and drying.

dspinks
11-03-2006, 10:42 PM
I haven't used them for about three years but I remember thinking they were sticky. Now that may have been only when I used acrylics mixed with some. I should try them with water alone, or do you use some kind of medium even though they are water mixable? Just as acrylics have a medium as well as water. My tubes of the oils are actually dusty!

Jane

I use WN Water Mixable Painting medium. Just a couple of drops per inch of paint. I use a palette knife to mix - sometimes it is a little gummy at first, but the knife blends it in nicely. Then I add a bit of water (usually just by dipping my brush in water) if I want it thinner. I paint in thin layers, so they touch dry overnight.

Here're samples of paintings I posted a while back.

Debra
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2006/7933-TeAnnesAnthuriumSmall.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2006/7933-HibiscusSmall.jpg

Aspiring
11-03-2006, 10:49 PM
Oh, I think they are so beautiful. Thanks for showing them. What glorious colors!
Now. another question if I may: about how long does it take a day's worth of painting to dry?
I almost think I do have a bottle of that medium....somewhere! Have everything else it seems. so muxt have.
You've got me rarin' to give them a good try again.

dspinks
11-04-2006, 09:31 PM
Thanks for your kind comments on my work.

Well, I used to spend a few hours painting in a day - thin layers, mind you, and it would be set enough that I could put on another layer the next day. The paint would still be workable enough, though, if I needed to blend or scrape down any paint from the previous day's work.

Debra

Marge Wms
12-08-2006, 02:28 AM
HI, Jane, glad I found this posting.. I will be starting a class in H2O paints in January and I want to learn all I can before the class starts. Guess I just found out about which paint to buy! I have some of the MAX 2 already, but will add the Holbein Duo Aqua too. I think this may be the medium I will really like working with. Debra, I love your painting in this medium! Just great. And Tina, you always have a few jewels of knowledge for us! Thanx.. Gigi

scf
12-16-2006, 01:18 PM
After trying all the major brands, I thought Duo was the best, but got frustrated enough using them that I went back to regular oils. Then I tried the Lukas Berlin. I found they are the absolute best. If I squeeze out enough to use just for the day, they are even a pleasure to work with. If I cover them up with saran wrap and use the piles the next day, then they show some of the typical drag of the brush I dislike with the other water oils.

Maybe they're not so cost effective if I don't like them as well the 2nd day, but they are so cheap to begin with, I don't think it's a problem.

scf

topgun
12-17-2006, 12:35 PM
I just finished a painting a week ago, didn't actually mix the tow together but I painted the sky in water mixable oil and the rest of the painting in acrylic, and work just fine, its fully dry now ( post that in the landscape forum)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Dec-2006/90483-mix100.jpg

Also one time I did it by mistake but it was very small amount I did not notice until the next morning.

Marzouq

Aspiring
12-17-2006, 01:37 PM
I REALLY like that. Now I am out here on the left coast and my h2o oils are home on the east coast and I see where they would be so helpful with what I'm doing with the acrylics and panel I brought. But I now have my right thumb in a brace so everything is out unless I want to be creative with my left hand. Maybe that's the answer to doing a really nice abstract!