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Weezy
09-23-2006, 03:05 PM
Here's a piece d'apres a picture by my friend Katherine. Its on pastel board. Casein 18x 24 and just begun. I am at the underpainting (oh my gosh are there really yellow swans?) stage. Kinda jolting, isn't it? I am learning by doing as they say. I do not know if this will be an all casein piece or mixed with CP or oil. I figure I'll let it decide.
First the drawing (freehand, not projected or gridded).
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2006/46700-swan1.jpg

Then the beginning underpainting.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Sep-2006/46700-swan2.jpg

pinkrybns
09-24-2006, 06:46 AM
OK Weezy ... I'm in for the ride :)

I'm curious about when would you use the CP, if you do? on top after you're done with the casein?

And, what's this smell everyone mentions about casein? Can you put that smell into words? :rolleyes: Is it very awful?? lol Just wondering before I buy any...

:)
Judy

andymathis
09-24-2006, 10:38 AM
My casein paint (Shiva- basic set of 6 colors) arrived this week, and I was expecting the worst odor.

I didn't think it was that bad- I only squeezed out a few blobs to play with.

dbclemons
09-24-2006, 11:34 AM
...And, what's this smell everyone mentions about casein? Can you put that smell into words? :rolleyes: Is it very awful?? lol Just wondering before I buy any...

Most casein is preserved with ammonia, and although Shiva doesn't say that on the label, it certainly smells like it. I can notice it with just a small amount on the palette. After a few hours the odor will dissapate from the dry paint. It's a good idea to ventilate the room in the meantime.

Richard Saylor
09-24-2006, 12:01 PM
It doesn't smell like ammonia to me. There is TSP in the Shiva medium. Maybe that accounts for the smell.

Richard

JamieWG
09-24-2006, 06:40 PM
Oh my....Is this our forum's very first WIP? What fun! *pulling up a chair next to Judy while hitting the "subscribe" button* Looking good!

Jamie

Weezy
09-25-2006, 01:27 AM
Oh my....Is this our forum's very first WIP? What fun! *pulling up a chair next to Judy while hitting the "subscribe" button* Looking good!

Jamie

NOW he tells me! I haven't worked on it for a coupla days. I hope to later this week, but it'll have to be after work. I am trying like heck to get my website up. I am such a putz. I do this kinda thing at work all day, (interactive software development) and I absolutely hate doing it at home. So I have no website. I am trying to rectify that. In the meantime, its taking time away from what I'd rather be doing.....art. So I have a radioactive swan in my dining room right now. Its rather hard to ignore. Especially after seeing one of hubby's eyebrows shoot heavenward when he caught site of it. I'm sure he thinks I've gone round the bend.

Judy, I am thinking about CP or oil over casein if I run into a wall. I am going to see how far I can go with just the casein. It can't sit for too long, or it won't blend, right? Anybody know how long that might be?

idcrisis55
09-25-2006, 09:40 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing you paint this :). Your sketch looks great.

Ann

JamieWG
09-26-2006, 05:31 AM
NOW he tells me! I haven't worked on it for a coupla days. I hope to later this week, but it'll have to be after work. I am trying like heck to get my website up. I am such a putz. I do this kinda thing at work all day, (interactive software development) and I absolutely hate doing it at home. So I have no website. I am trying to rectify that. In the meantime, its taking time away from what I'd rather be doing.....art. So I have a radioactive swan in my dining room right now. Its rather hard to ignore. Especially after seeing one of hubby's eyebrows shoot heavenward when he caught site of it. I'm sure he thinks I've gone round the bend.

Judy, I am thinking about CP or oil over casein if I run into a wall. I am going to see how far I can go with just the casein. It can't sit for too long, or it won't blend, right? Anybody know how long that might be?

Hiya, Weezy. I'm a "she", but it's pretty hard to tell here on the internet! ;) LOL about the radioactive swan. I don't know how long it can sit and still be soluble; I've always worked small in casein and did the paintings in a single sitting. You may be our chief research associate here. :D

Jamie

Meisie
09-26-2006, 10:32 PM
Pulling my chair up.....front row seat :D

Meisie

Weezy
09-26-2006, 10:48 PM
Better back up, Meisie - wouldn't want your hair to start falling out!!!:lol:

Meisie
09-26-2006, 10:52 PM
:eek: not more than it already is! :D

Meisie

JanB
09-29-2006, 09:03 AM
Watching with interest!!

joannd
09-29-2006, 10:58 AM
Pulling my chair up.....front row seat :D

Meisie

Me too. I'll just sit quietly behind Meisie. I'm glad you mentioned this piece in the CP forum so I could come see.

I've often wondered about casein paints. I didnt realize there was a whole forum for them.
JoAnn

dbclemons
09-30-2006, 03:46 PM
It doesn't smell like ammonia to me. There is TSP in the Shiva medium. Maybe that accounts for the smell.

I had missed this comment until now. Thanks Richard, that's good to know (TSP content.) I'm sure you're right; ammonia has a similar odor. They're both often used as cleaners and de-waxing agents (tsp = trisodium phosphate for the chemically curious.) Hmmm, further study required... ;)

pinkrybns
09-30-2006, 04:56 PM
(tsp = trisodium phosphate for the chemically curious.) That would be me! :lol:
ty db

JamieWG
09-30-2006, 07:48 PM
*Tapping her foot...*

We're waiting, Weezy. :D :evil: :D

Judy, would you please pass the popcorn?

Jamie

andymathis
09-30-2006, 08:09 PM
and the beer. . . . .

JamieWG
09-30-2006, 08:24 PM
*passes the beer to Andy*....

To Weezy....May this painting travel a straight path forward from start to finish.....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Sep-2006/13766-cheers.gif

Jamie

pinkrybns
09-30-2006, 08:44 PM
Popcorn's gone all soggy and green...somebody left a sea-sponge in it :evil:
but I got plenty of beer! :D :D

dbclemons
10-01-2006, 12:07 PM
...Thanks Richard, that's good to know (TSP content.) I'm sure you're right; ammonia has a similar odor. ...

I should rephrase that. I meant the Shiva paints smell similar to ammonia to me; although, Richard disagrees. TSP dosen't have much of an odor. I've used it before as a recommended substitute for bleach or ammonia as a cleaner for that reason. It surprises me that it's used in the emulsion mixture since I've seen it stain fabric like bleach does. Interesting...

Sorry to keep interupting. Is there beer yet? :p

Weezy
10-01-2006, 11:27 PM
OK, I spent about an hour on this tonight, still laying in the background. I wanted to give it a little over a week to dry and see if the paint still blended on the support and it does. Some colors better than others. The orange blended well. I am laying in the water underpainting. I am thinking in terms of glazes and do not want a whole lot of layered blending going on....so I am thinking of next painting a barrier to allow surface glazing and more optical mixing than actual pigment mixing. What would you all use?

I am questionning the support. Its pastel board and my brush does not glide easily over it. Maybe a gessoed board would have been a better idea? I'll try that on the next one, maybe.

The shiny parts are still wet. This stuff dries very very matte. As you can see the radioactive fallout is still at half life. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/01-Oct-2006/46700-ESwan03_Red.jpg

Katherine T
10-02-2006, 07:36 AM
Wow - my swan would be very puzzled if he met this one in its current state of development! I'll be very interested to see how it turns out after the nuclear fall-out is over.

Louise - Don't you pay any attention to Dick and tell him to go garden!

I'm not clear about this ammonia/tsp thing. Does casein paint smell and if so of what?

idcrisis55
10-02-2006, 08:05 AM
You are doing a fine job on this painting, Weezy. I love how you are bringing it all together stroke by stroke.

Ann

pinkrybns
10-02-2006, 11:17 AM
I'm enjoying watching this Weezy. Doesn't really look like nuclear fall-out, but then my monitor is not set very dark. Looks to me like it's progressing very well. :)


I'm not clear about this ammonia/tsp thing. Does casein paint smell and if so of what?Well, I am puzzled too, because some folk here seem not to smell anything. :confused: Does this depend on the brand?

Seeing as how this substance is used in producing cheese, I'm thinking just how bad can it be? There are some French cheeses that make the average person run out of a room! :lol:

So Weezy, what does it smell like to YOU?

Meisie
10-02-2006, 11:54 AM
After a week, the bottom layers still lift when you glaze? hmmmm that doesn't sound like what I'm expecting to find. Interesting.....

Open some Limburger Judy, and the building empties :D

Meisie

Weezy
10-02-2006, 12:03 PM
They don't lift real easily....just after repeated brush strokes. I think if you want to glaze with no interaction whatever, a barrier layer could be applied. I know that at this point I could go in and use oil glazes....but that would be the end of using the casein. I'd like to use just the casein and push this further......the oil is always there waiting in the wings. I may use oil as a final step.....we'll see.

The smell is not a problem to me. I rather like it. I guess smells that bug me are more of the perfume type. Painting smells are the smell of creativity.....I enjoy them, but have to be aware of how they affect DH as he has asthma. So far, no gripes about the casein from him, so that's a definite plus.

dbclemons
10-02-2006, 04:31 PM
...I'm not clear about this ammonia/tsp thing. Does casein paint smell and if so of what?

The odor is based on however it's made, and is not permanent. As I mentioned earlier, Shiva's casein paint smells like ammonia to me. Richard wasn't convinced, and the label for Shiva paint doesn't say. Ammonia is not necessarily required to make casein, however, just some type of alkali (lime, or borax, etc.) to break down the milk curd. The smell goes away after it dries. Casein made with borax just smells like strong cheese, but that smell also goes away rather quickly. I hope that's clearer.