Need help with joiner

[Steve Collins]

I just got a FrameCo Benchmaster (#14728 & 14729) which comes with a Pushmaster.

I'm at the stage of assembling it and have everything done except for getting the Pushmaster in the plastic sleeve in the center of the crossbeam. The instructions say that I need to "insert" it. However, I've tried a considerable amount of pressure and it won't go in. It appears that the sleeve isn't wide enough, such that the ridged sides of the Pushmaster are digging into it.

I could start hammering on it or something similarly drastic, but I wanted to make sure about it first.

So, to all you millions of Benchmaster users, is this supposed to be hard to do? Is there a non-obvious trick to getting the thing to fit? Should I get out the hammer? Or is the sleeve not right for some reason?

Thanks!

Steve
(Learning about framing as I go)

[AmyLC]

Hi Steve,

My Benchmaster just arrived YESTERDAY! LOL. So I'm certainly no expert. Mine fits snuggly, but it does go in. One thing though - when mine arrived there was a very small, thin, black plastic ring inside the black plastic tube that the pushmaster should fit in. (sorry don't have the diagram in front of me to correctly name the pieces). I wasn't sure if it belonged there or not, or what it's purpose was.....but I took it out. And it seems to work well without it. I do need to push the pushmaster in (especially the last bit), it doesn't just "drop" into place - but it doesn't take alot of force.

I think I'm going to get the longer bolts and attach it directly to my workbench. I've only had a chance to try and join one practice piece and found that I dented the front of the frame in the groove on the white base of the benchmaster (maybe I just pushed too hard!!). Also the frame was wobbly because I didnt' have anything to support it beyond the white base. I know they make accessories to do that, and I could put a piece of matboard under the frame....but it seems that the easiest thing would be to use it with the frame flat on my table (its carpeted).


Good Luck!

[mick11]

Hi Steve and Amy,

The pushmaster should just drop into the benchmaster, and should be an easy sliding fit.

I am meeting with frameco Uk tomorrow, so will check and get back to you as I dont remember the disc Amy is talking about.

[Steve Collins]

Amy, mine definitely doesn't fit, and I didn't have any black plastic ring. The sleeve itself is black plastic. I did manage to push the Pushmaster in from the other end and it gets too tight about half way to the top, at which point I had to pop a few veins to remove it again.

Mick, thanks for looking into it further.

Steve

Steve

[Steve Collins]

I made some progress. First of all, I contacted FrameCo (US) and the woman who answered said that this happens once in a while. She's sending me a new sleeve.

She did say that it's possible that the Pushmaster itself is too wide, that the process of pressing the pieces of it together (the silver tip to the blue metal tube) can cause the metal tube to flair a little.

As a test, she had me take one of the tubes used to attach the crossbeam to the base and insert it in the sleeve. This fit fine, which concerned her. Apparently the Pushmaster is constructed using the same tubing used for the 2 supports for the crossbeam.

Anyway, since I knew that the sleeve was going to be replaced anyway, I spent lunch time today sanding the inside of it until I got the Pushmaster to fit.

So either way, I think it'll work now.

Steve

[AmyLC]

I'm glad to hear they are so helpful! I'm sure the plastic ring I had was just an extra of some sort - I was just hoping it was blocking your sleeve or something.

I *almost* got a frame to join correctly today!! One corner is just a TINY bit open, but not too bad - the other 3 joined beautifully. I'd use it myself and nobody would ever notice, but I wouldn't sell it. What a relief after the horrible luck I was having with the Logan joiner!!! I'm cutting my own moldings, too so I was quite happy to get one together.

Hope yours is working soon!

[Steve Collins]

...
I *almost* got a frame to join correctly today!! One corner is just a TINY bit open, but not too bad - the other 3 joined beautifully. I'd use it myself and nobody would ever notice, but I wouldn't sell it. What a relief after the horrible luck I was having with the Logan joiner!!! I'm cutting my own moldings, too so I was quite happy to get one together.

Hope yours is working soon!

So, how did you deal with the frame itself? Hold each corner together one at a time? Or did you get a strap clamp? I got one as part of the kit. As I understand it, you should glue the frame together first, put it in the strap clamp and then use the joiner to nail the corners. I would think that the glue and clamp would keep the corners together.

I'm wondering, because it would help to know if the strap clamp still leaves open the possibility of gaps when joining.

Steve

[Steve Collins]

I...
I *almost* got a frame to join correctly today!! One corner is just a TINY bit open, but not too bad - the other 3 joined beautifully. I'd use it myself and nobody would ever notice, but I wouldn't sell it. What a relief after the horrible luck I was having with the Logan joiner!!! I'm cutting my own moldings, too so I was quite happy to get one together.

Hope yours is working soon!

Congratulations on your successful frame! I suspect that this is like most things - the first time is always the hardest. :rolleyes:

Steve

[mick11]

I'm wondering, because it would help to know if the strap clamp still leaves open the possibility of gaps when joining.

Steve

Steve

You can get terrific force on the strap clamp and if your mitres are cut accurately you will not get gaps.

This may also help.

A tip when using your band clamp

Clamp the frame up dry and make sure all the joints are tight with no gaps. Loosed the clamp slightly, take out the top rail and apply a small bead of glue to the centre of both ends, replace it in the clamp. Do the same with the bottom rail, then clamp up tight. "V" nail while the glue is still wet. You can then release the clamp and admire your work.

[AmyLC]

I made another one that was nearly perfect!!! YAY!! (Mick, thank you for the advice - the benchmaster is MUCH easier than the Logan)

Yes, I used the strap clamp that came with it - it worked great! I added the little "wings" because it was slipping up off the frame (it was narrow).

I put a scrap of matboard under it so the frame wasn't being pushed against the groove in the base, and I supported the part hanging off the base with my other hand. I am going to bolt it to my table instead of using the base - but I'm waiting to see just where I want it to go....trying to get a flow for the saw, the joiner, the mat cutter, etc. before I start drilling holes.

One thing I found. I have v-nails that I purchased with my Logan joiner (which I hated). The other v-nails look identical except they are not connected to eachother - they are just loose in a small zip-loc bag. I found it to be MUCH faster and more convenient to use those, because I didn't have to pull the pushmaster out to reload it after each nail. I left it all in place and just put the v-nail on it by hand. (I had a dickens of a time flipping the v-nails out of the little plastic holder anyway!!).

Anyway....off to cut some more practice pieces!

Hope you have it working, Steve

[mick11]

(I had a dickens of a time flipping the v-nails out of the little plastic holder anyway!!).

Hi Amy,

To get the nails out of the cassette

Hold cassette in left hand and press button forwards with your thumb.
Hold pushmaster in fingers of right hand and put your right thumb on top of the v nails in the cassette and the magnet against the bottom of the v nails. By moving the fingers of your right hand towards your thumb a v nail will come off.You will find it very easy once you get the knack.

Also be aware that the shorter V nails sometimes flip over on the magnet so they are the wrong way up. If this happens place the nails close to the body of the pushmaster.

[Steve Collins]

I finally made a frame for the first time today using the new tools (miter saw with extensions, Benchmaster II, Pushmaster, strap clamp, and hardware), including cutting my own matt (which I've done many times already), glazing and foamcore, applying frame sealing tape and dust cover, and it came out fine. It took about 3 hours between being really careful and being puzzled once or twice, and because it was a large frame (c. 26" x 34"), but it worked out well.

I also did a second frame for a smaller painting (11" x 16"), and it went much faster, about an hour and a half.

I also had problems getting the v-nails out. My early problems with the pushmaster were resolved by a new plastic sleeve, except that it fits very snugly and is hard to remove, hard enough to make me resist pulling it out and putting it back in the Benchmaster 8 times for each frame. So I just used a screwdriver to push them off the cassette.

I also used the Pushmaster to press in the tacks to hold the "package" (glazing, painting, mat, backing board) in, actually the flat nails that slide into the groove on the side of the Pushmaster tip. However, it's kind of finnicky. About half of them go in fine, another quarter or so go in but get bent to some degree, while the remaining quarter get bent without going in and have to be thrown away.

Is there a trick for pushing those in?

Mick: Your tip about gluing the frame rails together in the clamp before nailing worked like a champ! Thanks!

Mick (again): I know you've mentioned that dust covers aren't really used outside of the US and gave compelling reasons why they're not a great idea, but I'm sticking with them for now because they seemed to be expected for certain shows that I've been entering. Maybe something stronger than paper would work better?

Steve

[mick11]

Hi Steve,

Glad you have finally cracked it.:thumbsup:

Ref. the dust covers. They are used much more often than not in the US, and that is fine. A lot of things in framing are done differently over there.

The black Nails are in fact "flexi points or tabs" ,are soft and designed to bend once fitted,they can be difficult in hard mouldings. They are only used by framers where the art is likely to need changing.
You could use framing / glazing points, which are hard, or glazing nails, which are tiny headless nails.These will also fit in the pushmaster.

The push master should be a loose fit in the sleeve, and should move up and down with the spring. I would speak to Frameco if it is still jamming after replacing the sleeve, I am sure they will change it for you.

[Steve Collins]

...
You could use framing / glazing points, which are hard, or glazing nails, which are tiny headless nails.These will also fit in the pushmaster.
...


That makes sense. What I used were the flexinails, and since I never plan to open either frame up, I shouldn't have used them in this case. I did also get what's called "Pushmaster backing nails" in my order. They look like small finish nails. I assume that's what you mean. I'll use those next time.


...
I would speak to Frameco if it is still jamming after replacing the sleeve, I am sure they will change it for you.
...


I definitely will call them.

Thanks for your help!

Steve

[mick11]

I did also get what's called "Pushmaster backing nails" in my order. They look like small finish nails. I assume that's what you mean. I'll use those next time.

Yes, they are the ones to use for permanant frames, but shouldnt worry about the ones you have done. I often see them used here by so called framers.