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357mag
07-22-2006, 08:13 PM
I just discovered the Lukas Berlin water soluble oils. I also found out that Maimeri now has a water soluble oil out, although I have not found a place here in the United States that sells it, but the Lukas Berlins are readily available so I'm thinking of picking some up. I like the fact that you can get all the colors in large tubes too. I thought I read on one site that they are artist quality, but I don't know if I believe that cause the price is pretty reasonable if not kinda low at Aswexpress and Jerry's. Has anyone here tried these particular paints?

dspinks
07-22-2006, 10:10 PM
In general, if paints are artist quality, they will state so specifically either on the tube or on their official pamphlet/website/advertising (ASW's discriptor does not say they are artist quality). Many paints have words in their literature that sound like artist quality descriptions, such as "high quality" or "richest pigment", but if they don't actually say "artist quality" then they probably are not.

Not to say you shouldn't try these - I use WN Artisan - which are not artist quality - and I like them a lot.

Debra

357mag
07-22-2006, 10:22 PM
If you go to www.heinzjordan.com/oil_paints.htm you will see that they say that the Lukas Berlin Water Mixable Oils are Professional Quality. Actually for my work it's not crucial that they are.

tmarts
05-20-2009, 03:40 PM
are water soluble oils safe to use of the body if you don't use a solvent?
if not, is there a paint that is safe with comparable density?

sidbledsoe
05-20-2009, 11:43 PM
Our member idart (Bob) has a great site with info about all of these:http://www.buildart.com/secret_of_water_mixable_oils.htm
He rates these as student grade.
Both regular and water soluble oil paints are very much the same or equal regarding safety. Solvents are made for each and may or may not be used with either type.

357mag
05-24-2009, 09:42 PM
He says the Lukas Berlin's are student grade but on the tube it says Artists Oil Color. So he may be mistaken.

sidbledsoe
05-24-2009, 11:01 PM
Yes, lukas calls them professional quality, they also call their best lines master quality. This helps professionals and masters in selecting the paints right? Permalba calls their paints professional quality. Shinhan calls their paints professional quality. It is right there on the tube. Why would a paint company who is in the business of making a living by selling that product, call their paint professional quality? Well first of all they do it because they can. There is no regulation regarding using these adjectives to describe their paint. What does it mean in reality? Independent testing of one brand vs another by someone like Bob removes the vested interest of the paint makers, he has actually used and compared them.
Then check out the cost at Art supply warehouse: lukas berlin - $2.25 for any tube, no matter what color you choose, that is the cost for a 37 mL tube. Now check winsor newton artisan brand which Bob rates as a better grade ( not as good as Holbeins) and winsor newton itself says do not have the high pigment load as their artists grade paint - $4.79 (earths, etc) or $10.17 (cad, cobalt). Most people rate artisans as below artists grade.
At $2.25 a tube for professional artists grade paints I must assume that lukas wants to give them away.
Now I am not saying that student paints are not perfectly usable, I think they are, but I do think buyers should know what it is they are buying and sometimes the sellers make that difficult.

357mag
05-25-2009, 01:20 AM
Actually when Lukas says Artists Oil Colour they may mean oil paint intended for artists who paint in oil. They may not mean artists grade. This could be very well what is going on.

sidbledsoe
05-25-2009, 07:17 AM
Yes, I think that is right. I use some Lukas 1862 paints which I like and I would use these also, no problem. I believe they omit the use of expensive pigments like cads, cobalts, etc. which is fine with me.

dbclemons
05-25-2009, 09:24 AM
From Lukas (http://www.lukas.eu/WEB_GB/Broschueren/Leaflets/WERB2049_Berlin_GB_Internet.pdf):
"The pigments used are exclusively chosen Artist quality pigments that
have the highest colour strength, purity, and especially proven permanency. All colours are at least light fast ** and most are highly light fast ***. This pigment selection and the high pigment concentration, guarantees the best colour strength, brilliance and luminosity of Lukas Berlin."

I find their paints, including the non-water-miscibles, to be an average grade that covers well. I've found the Berlin viscosity to be somewhat inconsistent at times (too oily) but still quite useable.

Pigment load in water soluble paints needs to be adjusted in some cases to compensate for the effects of using water. Acrylics have the same issue, for example. That doesn't make them inferior, it's just the chemistry involved.

pumkin54
05-25-2009, 02:54 PM
Many companies now have water-soluble oils. I think they all are considered artist quality, except the Van Gogh ones which are student grade as is the Van Gogh line in general, and the Reeves brand which are (imo) scholastic level.

Some other companies I can think of that make water-solubles are:
Holbein
Winsor & Newton
Weber (who make Permalba brand)
Van Gogh/Rembrandt
Reeves

So if Lukas is giving you doubts, try one of the other brands. Holbein seems to be the most expensive, so I haven't tried them yet. I have a bunch of Winsor & Newton and am happy with them. I tried the Van Gogh and the two tubes I bought tend to accumulate just the oil at the top of the tube between each use. So when you squeeze it the first time, all you get is a bunch of oil and no paint. Not sure if it's like that with all of them, but it turned me off.

Susan H
05-28-2009, 06:37 PM
I'm new but I want to jump in onthos since I've been doing the water soluble oils for awhile. I usually use Artissn but ordered some Lukas Belin water soluble oils over the winter. I've had prior experience with Lukas quality issues and since they are fairly new in the US market I noticed some labelling issues with the Berlin colors and think they're probably not following the correct ASTM labelling as some tubes should have been labelled as "hue" and were not. But I checked all the pigments that I bought and they were rated I or II. Lukas has a brilliant pure Cerulean and another color Indian Yellow (hue) which leans orange which I also like a lot. Thanks.

357mag
02-17-2010, 08:16 PM
The tubes of Lukas Berlin feel heavier than the tubes of say Artisan. Noticeably heavier. Usually this means a higher pigment load leading me to believe they closer to an artists grade paint.

Aires
02-17-2010, 09:27 PM
Are you sure you are comparing the same size tubes? Artisan is only 37 ml and if I remember right Lucas has larger tubes?????

357mag
02-17-2010, 10:12 PM
My Artisans are 200 ml tubes just like my Lukas Berlin's. The Artisans feel lighter.

Reba1017
12-07-2011, 10:40 AM
I am new to the painting world, but my mom was a great oil painter/ artist. I have taken a few classes in the last year and a half, and I have worked with the artician water mixable paints. I liked them alote, but I have recently ordered the lukas water mixable paints and just absolutly love them. I even love them more than the artician paints. I love the traditional oils, but unfortinitly I have to use water mixable/soluble because I have aggressive Lupus and RA and the fumes/smells from the traditional oils kills me. I am planning on doing alote of painting this coming year(2012) and plan on making alote of painting's for gifts for next christmas.:) :) :wave:

DaveGhmn
12-07-2011, 11:19 AM
Welcome to WetCanvas

You've found an old-ish thread.

There's now a new sub-forum specifically for WMOs: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=478

You'll find a lot about various brands. Lukas Berlin are absolutely my favorite as well... but I've experienced only W&N Artisan, Grumbacher Max, and Lukas Berlin, so my sample universe is small.

Good luck with them.
Dave

artbyannalisa
01-27-2012, 10:02 PM
This is how I came to try Lukas Berlin. I hadn't tried Holbein because their price is out of my reach. Hadn't tried the Weber brand WMO either, and it's also more $$ than I'm comfortable with. Have some MAX tubes and they are better than the cheaper brands in pigment load but not much different in texture/handling than the "student" paints. I used to mainly have only Artisian and Van Gogh. To be honest, I actually prefer the Van Gogh. The Artisian, IMHO, seems to get some of high esteem for being a WN product. I HATE the texture of some colors, like a certain yellow, and the pigment load is not really there. (I am fond of their Pthlalo Blue RS tho!) True, they sell real cadmiums, viridian and colbalt, but those pigment loads are super low. The Van Gogh seemed to have smoother texture and more "punch" to the color. Now the Van Goghs are being phased out for Cobra which is rumored to be very good, but again, too much $$ for me. I finally dared to try Lukas Berlin, tho I thought they had to be a joke at that price. Overall, I was very surprised. My main complaint would be that they are too oily, but I'll take that over the tinted wallpaper paste Artsian passes of as their main yellow (sorry Artsian fans, just my opinion) Also, some of their hues suck. The viridian just looks like weak pthlalo green bs, and the sap green looks like a simple "permanent green" that does not exist anywhere in nature. The chromium oxide green, however, is the real thing (for some reason I really like that color). The red and yellow hues seem okay. The paints are creamy and the pigment load is not super high but it is much higher than Artesian. Agree with 357mag here...my 37ml. Berlin tubes are heavier than the Artesian 37ml's, as are the 200 ml. compared with 200ml. and this is evident when tinting and adding mediums too. So if you are on a budget, my advice is that the Lukas Berlin is worth trying. After, its not that much $$ to lose and ASW has the flat $7.99 shipping which is less than driving into the heart of Seattle and parking would cost me anyway.

clairdunn
09-21-2012, 10:33 AM
My chosen colors will be arriving today. Unfortunately, where I live UPS comes quite late in the day and I am a morning person!! I have for 2-3 years been investigating watercolors but recent work and thinking has led me to think I should try another medium. That was after coming to the conclusion that the colors that rip into me do so on the palette and not on the paper. I'm coming to colors as a b/w photographer and graphic designer.

At least I won't have to worry about working with WMOs after working with standard oils!