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bluefish
06-12-2006, 08:20 PM
:confused: Has anyone had positive experiences utilizing anti-reflective glass for framing your pastels?

Lydia Cassatt stated in the July/Aug issue of 'the Artist's magazine' that she frames her work utilizing True-Vue AR(anti-reflective) glass. Incidentally, her work is absolutely stunning.

I'm asking because I just did a show and for the 1st time, heard negative comments about the reflective qualities of the pastel pieces - the buyers gravitated to the acrylics on canvas, not under glass. I just sold two of the pastel pieces, so the reflection properties have not shut off sales but I'm wondering about the use of AR? Has anyone else heard of comments as stated about the reflections.Yes, I'm abreast of the negatives of AR on pastels but Mrs.Cassatt is a very influential artist and she's using AR.

Does anyone use the AR Plexi? Looking forward to your replies -(PS - she sprays all her finished pieces with final fixative)

'bluefish'

johndill01
06-12-2006, 08:35 PM
I have used the AR glass on the last two pastels that I painted and personally like being without the reflections, even though it does change the color slightly. Under decent lighting, I don't notice the color shift. Just MHO.

John

bluefish
06-12-2006, 08:54 PM
Hi John:

Do you think the color shift was due to the AR or just under glass, period. Plain glass has a green cast to it and will change the colors of the work - I prefer plexi for that reason plus I work large and glass is just to heavy. After your comments about AR and Mrs.Cassatt's article, I'm going to give it a look see, but again I probably will be looking at the AR plexi - thanks for your help-

'bluefish'

Bringer
06-12-2006, 10:29 PM
Hi,

If you look at my Pastel Links threads, namely October and November you'll see lots of info about glass.
Note that Tru Vue's anti-reflective glass (Tru Vue is the dealer not the maker, although I don't know if it has any holding relation) is called perfect view and is more expensive than other AR glasses.
This because instead of having it's surface abraded (dunno if this is the correct word), it has an anti-reflective coat.
If you contact Tru Vue, they will send you a sample of all the glasses they have. At least they used to.
I use normal anti-reflective glass and I like it, especially for darker works.
I must say that there are many qualities of anti-reflective glass.
There is also non static and anti-reflective acrylic. A kind of museum glass equivalent. But I've read that its price is prohibitive.
Another well kown brand is Denglass.

Best regards,

José

Donna A
06-12-2006, 10:30 PM
I've only framed one painting under the TruVue anti-reflective glass. It was a moderately large piece (39"x28") with a LOT of darker colors. It had been framed in Plexiglass for an exhibition. The buyer paid for the nearly $300 price of the AR glass for the reframing. I was shocked at how much of a dramatic improvement it made.

I think it makes far more difference with medium to darker paintings. The dark behind the glass is what gives the mirror effect.

My gallery person here in KC said that she thought it was just as well to show the works with the "regular" framing glass and only going to the TruVue AR when reframing after a sale. Hmmm.

But---I think we have to do what makes sense to us personally. I think the gallery owner was always afraid of glass breaking and needing to replace it.

I've seen several different brands of AR glass. One has a plummy cast. It can change color a bit. And there are vantage points where you can see the anti-reflective surface applied to the glass----so not foolproof----but it does make a surprising difference.

For any painting being huge across from significant windows---the AR glass is just a necessary ingredient. For rooms where there is not direct reflecting light sources----not a great advantage.

I think it's good to give it a try---particularly on a darker painting! And do take a look at the painting with other glass first so that you can fully appreciate and understand the different the AR can make. Very best wishes with your choices! Donna ;-}

Tressa
06-13-2006, 07:07 AM
I have used the AR, and quite a few of my friends use it. I do like it, and it does seem to go over well..
As Donna says, it can work to an advantage in specfic lightings.
Stan Sperlak, a NJ artist, that did a demo for our last PS meeting, uses the Denglass Jose mentioned, and his paintings that he displayed were beautiful!!
Tres

bluefish
06-13-2006, 10:55 AM
Thank you Jose, Donna, Tres - I just visited with a supplier and found that the 'old' style acid etched AR is about 3 times the cost of framing glass but the newer 'pure white AR' is about 8 times the cost of standard glass. (all wholesale prices). Going to take a good look at the various AR plexi's that are available - let you all know what I find - by the way Donna, I would love to get an additional $300 for a 28x36 piece of AR - just between you and me!

'bluefish'

Deborah Secor
06-13-2006, 11:01 AM
Bluefish--I have a painting I purchased several years ago at our local pastel society's national show that has plexiglas (not AR) on it. I don't think the painting was fixed, since there's a bit of fall-off on the mat now (not excessive), but I can assure you that the plexi hasn't hurt or damaged the painting in any way. It has a double mat, no spacer. I often wonder if the hysterical warnings we get from people about plexi aren't a bit overrated, and if you're williing to fix or space the painting I can't see any reason it won't work.

I sure like the look of the AR glass, but the price is a bit rich for my blood. I've been told it's friable, too, so I've hesitated to handle it, since I do my own fitting and glass is my bugaboo. Hate handling the stuff!!

Deborah

Bringer
06-13-2006, 11:32 AM
Hi Deborah,

I also frame my paintings.
I don't build the frames of cut the mats, but buy all the elements and then frame it myself.
I always use AR glass and never had problems about handling it.
I work on 12 by 9 inches, so the glass will have that plus another 2 inches (more or less) around the work which is the width of the mat; I like to put an extra 2/5 of an inch at the bottom of the mat.
And for that glass I will pay more or less 4 euro, or even less.
Of course that I'm not talking about Tru Vue's perfect view kind of reflective glass, but even so it has a very good quality among the «regular» anti-reflective ones.

Regards,

José

P.S. framing can have very different prices between places.
I buy the framing at the shop on the next door to my work and while I will pay someting like 35 or 40 Euro, near the same block another shop asked me 80 for the same kind of framing.

Bringer
06-13-2006, 11:43 AM
Hi Bluefish,

Yes, that's the one I use acid etched.
But it doesn't cost 3 times more, I guess not even twice.
The «white» one means it has less iron, which gives the green apearance.
But that's another one different from the perfect vue.
I think that they should sell those glasses condiderably cheaper since I don't believe that the production costs are that high.
Anyway, take a look :

http://www.masterframing.com/technicalinfo.html

http://www.viratec.com/downloads/tv_cat.pdf

Regards,

José

P.S. pay attention how they call the etched one non-glare and not A.R.

PeggyB
06-13-2006, 12:56 PM
I've used the Tru-Vue AR and the Tru-Vue AR museum glass (filters UV), but that was when I could buy it wholesale when I worked at the gallery. As Donna said, it is very effective for darker images. Now I use regular glass, and if someone wants to have it changed they will pay for the AR - jsut as Donna's gallery owner suggested.

I haven't tried the plexi AR, and would like to hear what you think of it, Bluefish/Bridget. Some large paintings do better with plexi, and like Deborah I've not had a problem using it on paintings when needed.

Peggy

bluefish
06-13-2006, 01:56 PM
Deborah & Peggy:

Since most of my work is 28"x36" or 32"x40", I've used Plexi for years without a problem - I mat the 28x36ers and use separators for the larger one's - will get back to you both when I've tried the AR Plexi - Regular plexi does show reflections but I feel it makes the colors more natural than glass. Again, like you both, I do all my own framing -

Deborah, I'm with you on cutting glass - had to many near fatal incidents - plexi is a breeze to work with.

Peggy, you started the Bridget, now Tres is all confused- is it Bridget or Sam or Bubba , ah what the heck, it's just 'bluefish'!

vrashton
06-13-2006, 03:14 PM
I have never used plexi for pastel because I was told it produces static which lifts the pastel. Is this not true? I would love to paint larger pastel paintings but glass is to heavy.
Val

Tressa
06-13-2006, 04:02 PM
Deborah & Peggy:

Peggy, you started the Bridget, now Tres is all confused- is it Bridget or Sam or Bubba , ah what the heck, it's just 'bluefish'!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Tres

Tressa
06-13-2006, 04:04 PM
Well, the plexi can't be all bad, as more and more, I see competitions saying NO GLASS, and they can't want you to RUIN your painting, now, CAN THEY???
Tres

chewie
06-13-2006, 06:31 PM
i hate the weight of glass--PLEASE if you plexi users can tell us how to get by with it instead of heavy old glass, tell us!! what about this static problem? do any clients have troubles with their paintings once they get them home? tell us all the gory details!

Donna A
06-14-2006, 01:00 AM
i hate the weight of glass--PLEASE if you plexi users can tell us how to get by with it instead of heavy old glass, tell us!! what about this static problem? do any clients have troubles with their paintings once they get them home? tell us all the gory details!

Hi, Chris! Since you want the lighter weight---definately go get plexi and start using it!!! No problem!!! Around here, it's more expensive than regular framing glass, but----it works fine!!! I've usually just used it to frame works for big national shows when it's a plexi-only requirement. But I"ve left the plexi on. No problem. I think the lighter weight can make a lovely difference!

I do take a few precautions when I'm getting ready to do the framing----but for the glass, too. I raise the humidity in the area to settle the dust bits that seem to always be whirling in the room--and do it by misting the air with water from a spray bottle. Then I put down a fresh sheet of brown paper and go to work. There is an anti-static spray for plexiglass that I use to clean the plexi as needed.

Plexi can scratch, but nothing has happened that has ever been a problem for me. It's not that the plexi has remained as totally perfect as when I peeled off the protective papers from both sides. But there is also plexi polish that you use with a soft cloth. IT works.

I fix my pastels, so don't have a lot of "really available" dust to stick to the inside of the plexi. And house dust can stick to it like other things, but easy enough to dust off---preferably with a slightly damp cotton cloth.

I have to tap the glass surface to tell if it's plexi or glass. ONly way I can tell. Visually, they look the same.

Let us know how it turns out for you, Chris! Take good care! Donna ;-}

bluefish
06-14-2006, 09:15 AM
I have been using Plexi in my studio without any unusal precautions for years!

Look at the static charges as 'splatter' on the surface of the plexi - these are little electrical charges that want to go HOME and their home is the ground! So how do we get those tiny little charges home? - I do it as follows-

Peel off one side of the protective sheet and lay the plexi on the table, protected side down - take a wet cotton cloth and go over the surface of the plexi collecting those little charges and giving them a path home - through the wet rag, you and finally ground! Using a dry cotton cloth, I wipe the plexi dry, lightly. My studio is on a concrete slab and since I live at the beach, most of the time I'm in my bare feet, but other times I have shoes on - you don't want to wear those 4" high, rubber soled things your Aunt Millie gave you for Christmas! You want a good contact to ground.

I then place the plexi in my frame, cleaned side down, remove the barrier paper , collect the little chargers with a wet rag, wipe dry with the clean cotton cloth, insert my fixed pastel, backing , seal up and it's ready for it's admirers. I hope this helps- reguards

'bluefish'

vrashton
06-14-2006, 02:41 PM
Has anyone tried plexi without fixing the pastel first? I don't like using fixative, would the plexi work if you don't fix?
Val

bluefish
06-15-2006, 05:36 AM
Val:

Plexi or glass, if you don't fix, pastel dust will get on the mat, glass, plexi, etc. Been there, done that!

Get the static charge off the plexi and use it as you would glass - but go back and read paragraph above - good luck!

'bluefish'

Deborah Secor
06-15-2006, 10:08 AM
Val, make sure you have plenty of space between your unfixed painting and the plexi, like a shadowbox, and use a spacer behind the mat so any pastel fall-off goes there, and you're okay without fixing. I wouldn't suggest bouncing the painting around much. It's okay if you just frame it and hang it, but if you ship it you'll be better off fixing lightly, at least. A lot depends on your painting. If you don't overfill the grain of the paper and smack the back of it before matting you shouldn't have a lot of excess pastel to deal with, but remember that static will PULL pastel upward.

I use Tend, an anti-static cleaner, to help take out the static when I frame.

Deborah

vrashton
06-15-2006, 02:03 PM
Thanks for the info. I don't have a problem using glass and not fixing but I would like to try bigger paintings using plexi.
Val

Punky2
06-15-2006, 07:36 PM
Are you all talking about regular plexiglass that you'd buy in a hardware store, or is there an artist's grade plexiglass?

Thanks.

Terri

bluefish
06-16-2006, 06:35 AM
Terri:

I buy most of my plexi in Home Depot - in sheets 30"x36" or 24"x28" - their quality control sometimes is not the best, and sometimes you will get sheets with voids. Laterly, they have been pretty good - they also have 18'x24' and larger sheet and smaller sheets - a 30"x36" sheet is about $15.00 - it is about.095 thick - if I need the thicker sheet -.125, I go to a glass house but this is a lot more expensive - for years I got it @ Documounts in Seattle - excellent quality but the shipping cost today is prohibitive.

'bluefish'

PeggyB
06-16-2006, 01:37 PM
If you buy frames from American Frames, you can order their plexi cut to size at the same time and not have to pay a seperate shipping fee. These days I rarely paint anything that requires a frame larger than 24 X 30 (interior size) as I don't like having to pay the shipping fees to shows for a larger painting. 24 X 30 is the largest size they will ship already glued together so that's really convenient to me. On the rare occassion I do want something larger they send the pieces unassembled and I do the assembly myself. Then I get my plexi from either Lowes or Home Depot and have them cut the size I need. It doesn't cost much more to have them make the cuts (50 cents a cut I think), and then I have the left over to bring home. The left overs accumulate, and I keep thinking "someday" I will paint to their size! LOL

Peggy

bluefish
06-16-2006, 04:19 PM
Peggy:

I never found much of a market for 4"x 31" paintings(scrap from Home Depot)! Maybe it's a Western market thing! You're lucky your Lowe's or Home Depot will cut the plexi for you - here it's almost impossible to find a sales associate, let alone help you - the plexi goes out as fast as it comes in - whenever I see a new shipment I grab a half dozen or more sheets to have when I need it.

'bluefish'

PeggyB
06-16-2006, 08:25 PM
Peggy:

I never found much of a market for 4"x 31" paintings(scrap from Home Depot)! Maybe it's a Western market thing! You're lucky your Lowe's or Home Depot will cut the plexi for you - here it's almost impossible to find a sales associate, let alone help you - the plexi goes out as fast as it comes in - whenever I see a new shipment I grab a half dozen or more sheets to have when I need it.

'bluefish'

:lol: :lol: :lol: - that's my point - don't know why I bring home the scraps. Sometimes they are a bit larger, but not by much. About the only use I've found - and this doesn't happen often enough - is to cut them into 4X6 pieces to frame small photos of kids, dogs, cats and grandkids!

Finding sales associates can take a bit of time at either place, but when I do they are always more than willing to help me. Since I've used the cutter when working at the frame shop I'm always tempted to do it myself while there, but so far haven't dared break the "employees only" directive taped to the darn thing... Also another reason it is easier to order a frame and plexi all at the same time from American Frames. I think others do it too.

Peggy