View Full Version : winton raw umber acting wierd?

03-04-2002, 11:12 PM
Just finished an underpainting for a portrait, using raw umber and white. I wanted something warmer than black, and didn't want to fiddle around with a verdaccio.

Well it looks just like I used black and white - but when I wipe the canvas the canvas is stained reddish brown. Almost like the canvas had leached the color out of the paint. The effect is fine, I'm just wondering why it's behaving like this - isn't raw umber supposed to be a brownish color???

Perhaps it's the canvas - first time I've used canvas (frederix premade). I'm really starting to wonder about these winton paints......


03-05-2002, 01:42 AM
My winton raw umber has worked fine for me. When you rub the paint off the canvas, what's left is obviously much thinner than what you're painting with. This allows you to see the actual color of the pigment, which is transparent. When the paint is thicker, it looks much less reddish. It's the same with some of the other pigments.

I'm not sure i'm understanding you about the canvas. If you want to be able to wipe it completely down to white, you'll probably have to put down another coat or two of gesso or, preferably, an oil ground. This will reduce the absorbancy.

Others will probably have better information for you.


Wayne Gaudon
03-05-2002, 07:09 AM
.. there is raw umber and burnt umber with the latter being more darkish brown and the raw leaning more on the red .. if memory serves me ..

03-05-2002, 07:20 AM
Mine be spiffy.

03-05-2002, 09:37 AM
thanks guys!

Nathan - I'm not specifically trying to wipe down, I just happened to wipe out a couple of mistakes and noticed this wierd effect going on. I guess I should have used BURNT umber for a warmer effect. OK it's just an underpainting anyway.

If I can get the didgicam working today I'll post pics later today.

03-05-2002, 10:49 AM
Yes, burnt umber is warmer than raw.

Also, my local art supply store has several artists who work in the art supplies area (there are 3 universities in this town, so there are lots of art majors around) and they let you open the paint and check it out. I've looked at winton vs. artist grade paint from w&n and couldn't tell much difference other than that the winton seemed a little more oily, but not much. when smeared on the counter, they looked exactly the same.

Some people do take advantage of this policy, though. For instance, there are 3 tubes of Cerulean blue that have about 1/8 to 1/4 squeezed out of them. Some people have no shame!


03-05-2002, 11:52 AM
Hi Kiwicockatoo!! (Saw your underpainting.......I like it!!)

I've used the fredrix pre-made canvases (and others) before and have had the same problem with absorbency. Now, if I use pre-made, I always apply a couple of extra coats of gesso on it and have not had the problem occur again :) Don't know if this helps you or not

Gee Nathan - you do that kind of comparison around here and you'll get your head chopped off (that is, if you get caught of course!!) L :evil: But I know what you mean............some people have no shame!! And I personally do not like buying a tube of pre-squeezed paint! (I guess I'm picky :D )


03-05-2002, 01:39 PM
wow, Nathan, I couldn't imagine opening a tube of paint in the store - like Tina said.

Tina I was wondering about the canvas absorbency.
Next time I might try some gesso on top.

I'm really wondering about my paints. All my colors are drying so dull - even with linseed oil added in (haven't tried stand oil yet). I don't know if it's the paint quality or my mishandling of it! I can say that some of my oil pigments don't look as intense as some of my expensive water colors, but I may be comparing apples to oranges....

Guess I should buy some artist's quality and find out for myself!!!!