PDA

View Full Version : Winsor & Newton WINTON Range Re-visited


Luis Guerreiro
02-21-2002, 05:28 AM
Dear All,
Some of you might feel surprised I am writing about this range, as historically I have been more involved with higher end ranges of paints.
However, I'd like to start by saying that the present situation (at least in Europe) of economic downturn aggravated by the horrific crime commited in New York on September 11th has actually put everyone under pressure, from a finantial stand point. Artists are particularly vulnerable to this sort of circumstances, as when economy is not doing well, Art-buying quickly becomes an end-of-the-list priority, in a fast world where reproduction printouts for sale everywhere are just as attractive to a lot of people, leaving original Art to wait for better days.
I have been very cautious about recommending WINTON Oil Colours in the past, for obvious reasons. The range has always been considered student grade and by all accounts, not one of the best student grade paints either. In addition to this, other mid-range paints were doing better and had indeed enjoyed a better reputation as mid-range paints, not student grade but just above student grade and slightly below professional artists ranges. I am thinking of Lukas Studio or even Schminke Norma, for example.
I have recently revisited this WINTON issue, as I had been made aware by W&N that plans were being drawn to revise this range and just very recently, this week in fact I finally came accross the revised WINTON range. The colour range has not been changed in general, so the shades are pretty much the same (about 47 including whites and blacks) BUT... Some important pigments were indeed changed and I am inclined to believe, just by comparing the new with the old tubes, that the paint formulation has been greatly improved.
The revised WINTON Oil Colours, compared with other student grade ranges, do look and feel better and not exactly student grade anymore. Colours show a better shade by comparison to the naked eye, the paint paste is generally firmer and more consistent giving an overall far better quality feel than before.
I am going to compare the colours against high-end ranges and will gladly report here my findings provided you are willing to know them.
Right now and (please keep in mind!) with the little I have seen so far, I would rate this range as suitable for professional artists who need good paint at an affordable price. I have been told yesterday that professional artists in London are using them quite gladly in conjunction with higher ranges thus keeping art production costs under control. The revised range paint tubes are basically the same, but tube caps have been re-designed (for the large 200ml tubes, the only ones I saw) which helps identify the new revised range. Retail prices have not been greatly changed, making this sort of mid-range quality quite affordable.
Luis :)

guillot
02-21-2002, 10:05 AM
Hi Luis!!

You know, I saw, I believe in Art Mag, about the "changing of the caps" in the Windsor Newton lines. If my memory serves me well, they changed the caps to prevent "seeping tubes" and increased the pigment in some colours. So, I think it's an important move also for W&N and yes the new lines are easily noticeable by the new cap!!

I am very interested in your range findings!! Please keep me posted :D

Tina

Mario
02-21-2002, 10:12 AM
YES, always nice to have discussions about pigments. Thanks

nam26b
02-21-2002, 02:11 PM
Luis,

I hadn't heard about these changes, but that's probably why I have been pretty happy with the Winton paint. I haven't noticed too much difference between Winton and the artist's quality, except with a few paints (lik naples yellow), but I'm by no means an experienced artist. It would be nice to hear from a more knowledgable source, so please post your findings if you have time.

Thanks,

nathan

jjrepass
02-21-2002, 02:15 PM
Very informative!

I'm a student and really just getting started in oils. I've been trying to decide which brand to buy and couldn't make up my mind. Of course money is the biggest issue. Our paints are provided in class so luckily I can use as much there as I want there (we're using Utrech at school). But, I'm wanting to start doing more painting at home and don't know what to buy.

I really enjoy reading about quality of products. I don't know much about the product differences and reading comments really helps. Thanks and keep it up!

Luis Guerreiro
02-21-2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by guillot
Hi Luis!!

You know, I saw, I believe in Art Mag, about the "changing of the caps" in the Windsor Newton lines. If my memory serves me well, they changed the caps to prevent "seeping tubes" and increased the pigment in some colours. So, I think it's an important move also for W&N and yes the new lines are easily noticeable by the new cap!!
I am very interested in your range findings!! Please keep me posted :D
Tina
Hi Tina
I am having a quick chat over the phone tomorrow with someone at W&N to go over the new revised Winton range. Your info about the caps re-design to prevent bleeding seems to be correct, as the screw bit of the cap is designed to seal in the contents in the tube properly. This change was introduced, I was told, with the distribution of the new paint batches. I'll post my findings.
Luis ;)

Luis Guerreiro
02-21-2002, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Mario
YES, always nice to have discussions about pigments. Thanks

Mario,
Thanks for posting. I know... Pigments discussions are never too much. There's always someone out there reading and willing to know more, particularly students, starters and artists still developing theirs skills, just like us. To know our materials as we know ourselves is never too much, particularly in oil painting.
:) Luis

Luis Guerreiro
02-21-2002, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by nam26b
Luis,

I hadn't heard about these changes, but that's probably why I have been pretty happy with the Winton paint. I haven't noticed too much difference between Winton and the artist's quality, except with a few paints (lik naples yellow), but I'm by no means an experienced artist. It would be nice to hear from a more knowledgable source, so please post your findings if you have time.
Thanks,
nathan

I will do, as soon as I have more info about this.
Luis :)

Luis Guerreiro
02-21-2002, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by jjrepass
Very informative!

I'm a student and really just getting started in oils. I've been trying to decide which brand to buy and couldn't make up my mind. Of course money is the biggest issue. Our paints are provided in class so luckily I can use as much there as I want there (we're using Utrech at school). But, I'm wanting to start doing more painting at home and don't know what to buy.

I really enjoy reading about quality of products. I don't know much about the product differences and reading comments really helps. Thanks and keep it up!

Hi JJREPASS,
If you're happy with Utrech at school, keep using the same, but be curious. Curiosity and willing to know more is 1/2 way to get to somewhere. The revised Winton Oil Colour seems to be more a mid-range paint, rather than student grade. It's an excellent value-for-money paint. Keep an eye on the thread, I'll update info soon.
Regards
Luis :D
PS: Good luck at school! :cool:

Wayne Gaudon
02-21-2002, 07:04 PM
Luis .. what are the new caps looking like so I can know when the local store has gotten around to getting new stock.. the ones here are white with a round dip in them .. seems they only sell the big tubes .. 200ml I think for 9.00 + Canadian a tube.

Luis Guerreiro
02-21-2002, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by artist
Luis .. what are the new caps looking like so I can know when the local store has gotten around to getting new stock.. the ones here are white with a round dip in them .. seems they only sell the big tubes .. 200ml I think for 9.00 + Canadian a tube.
Artist,
Now... How am I going to explain how they look?... :D
The old caps used to be quite large in diameter, tall. The new caps are round but flat in such way you actually could hang a 200 ml. tube from its cap. Unfortunately I haven't got a digital camera. The new caps look a bit like a large button, like those you could find in a coat from the 70's. Round, flat and big (and white).

Wayne Gaudon
02-21-2002, 08:42 PM
that's a good enough start .. I'll have a better look at the caps the next time I'm in the store. I would doubt they would have anything new as they don't carry much anyway. The next time in the city I'll have a boo.

Thanks again,

jjrepass
02-21-2002, 09:34 PM
Thanks Again! I'll keep an eye out for new posts.

guillot
02-22-2002, 12:50 AM
Thanks Luis............That's Great;)

Tina

ArtistEnigma
02-24-2002, 07:54 AM
I've been using Winsor & Newton for a long time now and have been consistantly happy with the quality of their paints. In fact the brand that makes up about 95% of my oils simply because of the cost and quality. I currently have not found anything wrong with the paint.

timelady
02-24-2002, 02:34 PM
Thanks for mentioning Lukas Studio too - another artist I know uses those paints but I literally knew nothing about them. At least now I kind of know where they stand in terms of artist/student quality. :) (and they are cheeeeap, in London anyway)

Not used W&N Winton (just the artist quality range) so this will be interesting... my sales have only just picked up since Sept. And after my brief love affair with acrylics I'm now wanting to return to oils more. Bad timing financially.

In one aspect many of us might turn out lucky with Winton, if we use limited palettes already. I'd be particularly interested in the high-cost colours like Cerulean but am guessing the hues still won't mix the same as the real pigments. :(

Tina.

DaveTooner
02-24-2002, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by timelady
Thanks for mentioning Lukas Studio too - another artist I know uses those paints but I literally knew nothing about them. At least now I kind of know where they stand in terms of artist/student quality. :) (and they are cheeeeap, in London anyway)


I use Lukas Sorte 1, which is a step up from Studio. The only paint I've used from the Studio range is a big tube of Titanium white, and it's fine. Sorte 1 isn't really that much more expensive, so give it a try if you can.

walden
02-24-2002, 06:12 PM
timelady, the Winton line includes true Cerulean Blue as well as a hue of same.

nam26b
02-24-2002, 07:07 PM
Yes, when I last went to my local supply store, I was surprised at the number of Winton paints that are using the same pigments as the artist quality paint. They also seem to have added quite a few new colors. I'd never seen any Pthalo colors, Cer. Blue, or Red, Yellow, and Orange using real cadmium pigments for Winton until here recently.

I've never seen a 200 Ml tube of Winton. Here, there are only 37 Ml tubes, and 150 Ml tubes of white and black. Must vary by region.

Nathan

Luis Guerreiro
03-26-2002, 02:53 PM
Hi All,
Here is the photo showing the old W&N WINTON 200 ml tubes and the new W&N WINTON 200 ml tubes. The new range is the right-hand red tube.
Best regards
Luis :)

Luis Guerreiro
03-26-2002, 02:58 PM
Sorry folks! Picture did not upload for some reason. Let's hope it does now. Thanks.
Luis :p

Luis Guerreiro
03-26-2002, 03:01 PM
Oh dear! Picture goes, but... no picture on the thread!
Cheryl, could you help us out please? Thanks.
Luis :o :o :o

Bendaini
03-26-2002, 03:42 PM
I supose your talking to "prophecinal" artists and atm i am not that but i am trying to become one.

I have to say the economy here is not good, nor have i have had extra cash of my own to go spend on art suplies so i have had to deal with what i could scrimp and save for.

ATM i use Georgian paints that come in a 6 pack of 22ml tubes for 10 bucks at walmart. They are cheep and they get my ideas out of my head and onto canvas, that is about all they do. They work.

The only other oil paints i have ever used are the daniel smith ones which are prophecinal and worked rather well. In comparison i would say the Georgians are a bit thicker from the tube and do not mix with medium as well but are good for what i use them for.

For a person who has a clientel and is selling work and NEEDS prophecinal paints perhaps this is not the way to go. For me it is the ONLY way to go right now. I would love to go get good paints and real canvases, and i am sure lots of other people would love to do that. We deal with what we have to, and if we can produce something as wonderful as we do with student grade paints then doesnt that say we have a lot more talent then we thought we did?

Wayne Gaudon
03-26-2002, 08:07 PM
Bought a few tubes to start an inventory .. pick up 1 or 2 tubes each week of so when I get some new canvas. The price is right at 9.00 Can for 200 ML tube. Got some old paint I want to use up first.

My first experience with real oil ..
.. worst crap I bought yet was Grumbracher Tested Oils .. crappy little tubes with tiny little caps .. bought them via mail from BlueIsland or something of that name maybe Island BLue .. from BC/Canada .. some tubes were nice and buttery and others were hard .. it's an effort to get the crap out of the tube and even painting with a knife it's a chore. Mixed some of the crap ones down with oil when I use them but I really like to use the paints pure. Never ever will I buy from that company again.

Also tried some Van Gogh and they were nice and buttery .. some more so than others but workable and I like the tube size and caps.

Haven't tried the Winton except the white and it has all the consistency I want so I would assume the rest of the colors are similar in nature .. that will be a treat .. and I really like the Big Tubes .. so much easier to get what you want when you want it.

Will try to use up my crap stuff first as I only started painting in oil after Christmas so I figure out of my first 50 I will have some good stuff but after that I should be able to do some real good stuff much more often. I will have gone through that old paint long before then ..

Winton has nice caps too .. easy to use.

walden
03-27-2002, 12:52 AM
I've experimented with a lot of different Winton pigments, and I can say that the consistency is much the same from tube to tube (er, the consistency is consistent? :)). I really like that.

paintfool
03-27-2002, 02:12 AM
Well now Luis, that is strange. When i look at the edit feature i see no text at all. As long as there's the red box there it should have SOME text. Did you upload from the uploader at the top of the page or did you use the browser at the bottom of the reply box? Which ever you did, try the other. Let me know if it doesn't work and i'll have Scott take a look. Make sure there are no spaces in your file name.

Mario
03-27-2002, 04:27 AM
I LIKE posts like Wayne Gaudon's because they really give me the feel for the actual experience another painter is having with something. Many thanks Wayne.

nam26b
03-28-2002, 01:39 AM
If you're wondering about whether or not to buy Winton, here's my personal experience.

I have over a dozen tubes (37 ml) of Winton and have never found any of them to be too much different in texture or consistency. Of course they vary by pigment as do all other brands as each pigment takes a different amount of oil. The bigger tubes of Titanium white are stiffer than the 37 Ml tubes though both are usable.

I also have several artist quality W&N paints, and have found that there's little noticable difference between the two if the same pigment is involved. of course, if it's a "hue" then it does look and feel a little different. Overall I haven't had anything but good results from Winton......so no blaming the paint for the artistic failures I've posted in the past!


I'd say that if you're used to using artist quality paint, you should be comfortable with winton as long as you stay away from the "hue" colors and read the label to make sure it contains the pigment you want, or the same one that's in the artist quality version.


Hope it helps,

Nathan

artbabe21
03-28-2002, 11:34 AM
My first introduction to Winton oil colors was at an opening night gallery here. Artitsts were doing a yearly theme where they all painted plein aire of say Degas ballerinas, Monet's landscapes, etc. One artist in particular from a near by city and I were talking about his work that was so impressionistic and he had GOBS of paint on it. A few weren't even quite dry to the touch which I found to be unusual, but he told me he used Winton oils since they were huge tubes at a reasonable price. His work was in the
higher end price wise, so this surprised me that he'd be selling work using student grade oils. I always wanted to give them a try
but wasn't sure it would be a good idea IN CASE I happened on a masterpiece { one can always wish} so I will be watching this thread with interest. thanks Luis, not having used a wide range of oils I enjoy hearing others thoughts though sometimes they only serve to muddy the waters since it's like so many things, subjective!! I have some Schmike I love, but can't afford anymore, DaVinci was OK, but am going to order a few tubes of different brands I haven't tried.
I hadn't bought paints in about 15 years and the oils I have are OK for the most part but I am sick of taking lids off with pliers! I do have to replace others and can't believe how prices have soared in these recent years!! arrrggghhh!
Cathleen~

Luis Guerreiro
03-28-2002, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by paintfool
Well now Luis, that is strange. When i look at the edit feature i see no text at all. As long as there's the red box there it should have SOME text. Did you upload from the uploader at the top of the page or did you use the browser at the bottom of the reply box? Which ever you did, try the other. Let me know if it doesn't work and i'll have Scott take a look. Make sure there are no spaces in your file name.

Ok Cheryl,
Here we go again. Trying to post the photo, as recommended.
As stated before, the red tube is the new range of WINTON, as asked by several of Wetcanvas members who wanted to recognise the new range easily.
Luis :)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Mar-2002/W_N_Old___New.jpg

Luis Guerreiro
03-28-2002, 05:35 PM
OK Guys,
I don't know why the uploader is not doing what it is supposed to do. Last attempt to load the photo, this time separately.
On this post, the OLD TUBE. On the next, the new...
:confused:

Luis Guerreiro
03-28-2002, 05:38 PM
Now, the NEW WINTON TUBE:
At long last.
PS: Lesson: The Website doesn't like merged JPEG Photos. Fair enough! :D

artbabe21
03-31-2002, 10:38 PM
Luis,
would this be true of both sizes of the paints, the newer style cap?
I am familiar with the large tube being capped like your first photo
{thanks for struggling to show us} but never saw the smaller one.
Cathleen~

Bendaini
03-31-2002, 11:43 PM
The "cheep" oils I buy have caps like the second one. I have yet to have troble with them. There are times i get paint on the outside of it, but it cleans up pretty nice....

Luis Guerreiro
04-01-2002, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by artbabe21
Luis,
would this be true of both sizes of the paints, the newer style cap?
I am familiar with the large tube being capped like your first photo
{thanks for struggling to show us} but never saw the smaller one.
Cathleen~

Cathleen,
Both photos feature the large format 200 ml tube, only the cap (and most importantly the paint formulation, I think) have been upgraded.:)

Luis Guerreiro
04-01-2002, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Bendaini
The "cheep" oils I buy have caps like the second one. I have yet to have troble with them. There are times i get paint on the outside of it, but it cleans up pretty nice....

Bendaini,
That's why they canged the caps. The old ones were messy.
A note of apologies to everyone for the trouble uploading the photos. That was comical!!! LOL! :D
Luis

walden
04-03-2002, 09:52 AM
Luis, there's been a discussion in the plein air forum about travelling with oil paints, their flammability, and trying to get manufacturers to put on the label that the paints aren't flammable (see discussion here http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=379831#post379831) Some folks have had airport security confiscate their paints.

With your contacts at W&N, would it be possible (or appropriate) for you to ask them about indicating non-flammability on the label?

timelady
04-03-2002, 03:14 PM
Actually W&N do have a page on their web (possibly in the oil painting online book) that lists what flammability rules are for flying and the specific flammability of their oil products. Most are fine for flying, Liquin if I remember correctly isn't. The same may be true of other mediums (Liquin contains turps). It says you can print it out to take with you travelling.

I recently flew London to Toronto to Chicago to Toronto to St Johns to London (with various stops of course!) and didn't have a problem with my oil paints at any airport. They were in my checked baggage. I have heard cases of people having trouble with acrylics too, which is absurd. Airport staff do not understand the difference between artist paints and home/industrial paints. :(

Tina.

P.S. My new big tubes in the UK have the new caps! :)

Luis Guerreiro
04-03-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by walden
Luis, there's been a discussion in the plein air forum about travelling with oil paints, their flammability, and trying to get manufacturers to put on the label that the paints aren't flammable (see discussion here http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=379831#post379831) Some folks have had airport security confiscate their paints.

With your contacts at W&N, would it be possible (or appropriate) for you to ask them about indicating non-flammability on the label?

I have never heard of tube oil paints self-igniting... Usually, linseed oil can self-ignite in the process of drying as it heats up when in contact with oxygen, due to the chemical reaction that occurs then. That is why rags soaked in linseed oil can catch fire.
Properly closed tubes shouldn't ignite at all.

Wendy Booth
04-04-2002, 01:51 AM
Thanks for the photos of the new and old Wintons. I'm glad to find that the ones I bought on Saturday are the new ones... and I'm really enjoying using them. :)