View Full Version : Basic 101 Class 34 - Female Realistic Portraiture

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Anita Murphy
03-06-2006, 12:51 AM

Welcome to class 34

Sugar and spice and all things nice
That’s what little girls are made of!
Women, girls, females, the fairer sex ………..

Drawing the female portrait.
The greatest difference between female faces and those of men seem to be that they are softer in structure (usually).

Skin – Women’s skin tends to be appear smoother than men’s. It cannot be stressed enough that your paper choice will greatly influence the results you achieve.

Some points from JayD’s class 18 on portraiture

a. More males then females have indentations in their foreheads

b. Male brows extend out further then females

c. The bridge of the female nose may be more rounded

d. Female lips are fuller then male lips

Which brings me to what we perceive as realism. We all got very caught up in the last class on circularism and achieving very realistic skin textures. This is not the only way method for producing a realistic portrait.

Definition from Wikipedia

Realism - The representation in art of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are, without idealization or presentation in abstract form.

Please remember that we tend to think of photographs as being accurate representations – this is not always the case. If you are wanting to produce photorealism – does that mean exactly like a photo with all the problems that go along with photography? Or do you want to do a realistic portrait – as seen by the human eye? Take what you logically know and apply it to correct photographic imperfections in your reference.

With your first post for the class please give YOUR definition for realism.

Anita Murphy
03-06-2006, 12:52 AM
In the last class Reinhard brought up a point that we all need to ask ourselves with any piece of artwork.
He asked
“What are you trying to achieve with this portrait?”


What is a concept?

Concept is an idea. In this case the idea behind your portraits. A good portrait is not just an accurate reproduction of a photographic likeness but also contains the essence of the character/personality of the model. Sometimes we are lucky enough that our reference photos show that person as they are. For example in the last class I did a drawing of my son, his expression was so much a part of him, shows his humour and the sort of person he is. If you are lucky enough to know your model you may be able to incorporate what you know into your drawing. Think very carefully about what you want your picture to portray about the person you are drawing.

For a list of materials for this class please see class 33 (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323221).
Additional materials

Paper textures – consider the texture of the skin of your subject when choosing an appropriate paper/surface to use.

Basic instructions are the same as for the previous class.

It was mentioned in the last class that this class would cover teeth. Photographic references quite often include bright toothy smiles.

Drawing teeth – A tip from the masters – less is more. In those wonderful old masters paintings of fancy ladies in amazing dresses with lots of lace the lace is drawn in detail only in some areas which fools the mind into thinking it we are seeing all the lace in detail. Teeth can be handled in the same way – each tooth does not need to be drawn individually to give a realistic impression of teeth. Remember that teeth follow the shape of the mouth – a horse shoe shape so the teeth that are further back are not as visible as those in the front and should therefore be less defined.

Also do not be influenced by what you know in your head overriding what you see. By that I mean – we know each tooth is separate so natural inclination is to draw each one with a dark line between them. Unless there is a noticeable gap this is not so. The line is in fact very light. With the teeth that are not in the front you may find that the separating line is barely visible, if at all. Also remember that teeth curve at the sides and remember to shade accordingly. Do not forget the shadow of the lip which is nearly always present across the top of the teeth. Teeth are also not BRILLIANT WHITE, except on the highlights – as with the whites of eyes.

Anita Murphy
03-06-2006, 12:55 AM
A note about methods

Circularism – Demo 1 uses cicularism and I found it extremely difficult for women’s skin. The imperfections of this method while great for producing extremely realistic skin textures are a little hard for portraying women, especially if you are working on a small scale. (I am not entirely happy with the resulting portrait)

Blending – Demo 2 uses blending which seems to lend itself much more to a softer look.

Please note that each method is not mutually exclusive. A combination of methods is also possible.

Demo 1 - Mechanical 2B, F and 4H wooden pencils
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2006/58769-IMG_3350.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2006/58769-IMG_3352.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2006/58769-IMG_3354.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Mar-2006/58769-IMG_3361.jpg

Anita Murphy
03-06-2006, 12:58 AM
Demo 2 – Mechanical 2B, F and 4H wooden pencils
Non-circularism using blending techniques. Almost all the blending in this demo was done using a tissue and fingers. Chamois can also be used and like tissue it will blend evenly but will also remove some of the graphite. (Please make sure you do not eat greasy foods while blending with your fingers – a) it makes the food taste odd, b) it makes a mess of your picture.)


I would like to thank all the subbies in advance for their continued hard work.









03-06-2006, 06:30 AM
Anita, wow wow wow. You did a fantastic job. If I didn't work on my "oversized Thomas" I'd feel tempted to jump in myself. This promises to be another fantastic class.

So you guys, who's the first?

03-06-2006, 07:21 AM
Don't have time to read this all now Anita~but I know it is going to be another wonderful Class!:clap: :thumbsup:
Is that your daughter and you in the fantastic demos?

03-06-2006, 07:23 AM
Hi Anita. Did you all look at the choices I made? If yes, please decide which one would be best, and I will take a shot at being first to go. I am still in bed, so please be patient with me. I did print out your instructions this morning, so I have a hard copy. The teeth should be interesting.

Mary Woodul
03-06-2006, 07:27 AM
Anita, congratulations on your demo! This will be a great class and I am going to get all my chores out of the way to start today.:)

Anita Murphy
03-06-2006, 07:32 AM
Reinhard - Thank you! And Thank you for your help - you are a star!

Judi - both images are from the ref library. I would love to do a picture of my daughter but I cannot get a good photo of her.

Midge - I went the whole way through the thread on female ref images and couldn't find anything that you had posted - can you post them again in the sticky thread at the top of the classroom?

Mary - thank you!

Everyone - I have a busy day today - dealing with Mexican Tax office so I can at last get paid for the work I have been doing for the last 5 months, then the exhibition opening and then a job interview! :( I will be back late this afternoon.

03-06-2006, 07:38 AM
I have posted it.

03-06-2006, 08:26 AM
Midge, Anita had answered as I saw right now. Maybe there was some x-posting and lost answers.

I love your reference. This will be a nice balancing act between realism, smootheness, detail, shadow, and light.

To all of us who will participate. Mike Sibley (Animal Forum in ArtPapa), has published a book he calls "From Line to Life". think of that title when starting this project. A good initial line drawing can and will help lateron to have sizes and positionings correctly. Even the first, initial likeness will be there. I had read in another thread where a very good artist (Isabel Chiang) posted that she invested about 15 hours into the initial line drawing. So please don't rush!!!!!!!!!!!!

03-06-2006, 08:38 AM
Well, just got back from the land of pancakes--well done Anita. I will be participatig but I have to get some things together first so by wednesday I will be wanting to dive in and Larn somethin!

03-06-2006, 08:39 AM
I can't see putting 15 hours into something that is just a shell. Here is my shell: Can you please explain why it should take a lot of detail before you begin to put in the detail?

It is just light lines that give me a framework to build my portrait. You asked us to post what we believe realism to be:

Realism to me is getting a portrait to look like the person, and to try and capture the essense of that person. When someone looks at the portrait they can "see" the person and their personality.

03-06-2006, 08:45 AM
Anita, may I??

when drawing women, there are some more differences between the sexes. While male subjects are more about angles and structure, female portraits are all about softness, smooth shading, rounder forms. Everything is simply more delicate.

Take a look at the jawbone or the chin for instance. While men have a more square and angled appearance, in women all these lines and curves are smoother.

Men have wider necks than women. In male subjects the neck has more or less the width of the face under the ears, while in women the necks are narrower, having a distinct inward curve under the ear. While men have a clearly visible "jawbone edge" women have there a nice and smooth curve.

When looking at the eyebrows for instance, in women these are less arched than in men, and in men they tend to come lower on the outside.

Just a few additional observations.

03-06-2006, 09:03 AM
Midge, you don't have to invest that time at all into a line drawing. You can obviously do it in record time and VERY good. This is not a recommendation for all and imperative, just a hint, not to rush. The more I learn how to draw the more I learn that there are no set rules to fit each and every person. We all have to find out what fits our personality and style best. The only thing that seems to be universal to all is, practice, practice, preactice .......

You point out very correctly what a portrait should be. I am looking forward to seeing your portrait evolve. The "shell" looks great.

p.s. I forgot to say a BIG HELLO to our first portrait in this class. Midge, you are faster than Speedy Gonzalez and he was faster than a speeding bullet! :wave:

03-06-2006, 09:35 AM
I have a question.
I am trying to make the highligh and shadow on the eye, and when I lift the highlight I can't seem to get it to blend back in. I hope I am wording this correctly. How do I get that not quite white highlight to blend into the rest of the face?

03-06-2006, 09:37 AM
With your first post for the class please give YOUR definition for realism.
Anita, great class write up ...

My definition:
When the eyes look at the rendering they have to look twice or maybe even a few more times to believe it is a drawing or a painting. It has to have a sense of life that is believable and not pretended.

It has to look like someone who has a purpose: Meaning, someones, Mother, sister, daughter, cousin or even girl friend. That someone has personality and soul and it shows through their eyes mostly ( I really do believe the eyes are the window to the soul). It also has to show through the way you portray them in the rendering.

Anita, I do agree capturing his look. I too, think the reason I liked my son's look (presently working on but I also wanted to incorporate his personality In the portrait also, that takes the viewer even further into his personality of his life. His love for skateboarding.

My goal in this female portrait is to portray her love for her personally chosen lifestyle; why she embraces it and trusts it so much; not only with props and accessories but mostly in her eyes why she does. The viewer will dive deep into them and see her pain & joy. It will also show her vulnerable side that wonders what if .... It will show her strenghth that knows what is...

I wish for the viewer to see the drama of it without having to be explained in words.

Don't worry RR I will probably be the last one to show my line drawing as I would like to finish my son's portrait and I want to give full attention to this next portrait as it will be great practice for my daughter and son in law's portrait.

To give you an idea of another way to put personality into a portrait, that one will have them dressed as warriors, like Zena and Thor with all their loving pets (now 7 ferrets). They will be dancing around them in such a framed vision or dream.
By the way, She is thrilled about my idea too. I think when you render a portrait with out having to ask the person your drawing in a way that will thrill them, means so much more to me then satisfying a stranger.

03-06-2006, 10:05 AM
Midge, if I understand your question correctly, you pifted out a highlight and now the "borders" don't blend into the surrounding areas but have a rather "abrupt" value change.

If that is it, I either blend it light from dark to light with a harder lead to "smear" some of the graphite into the lighter area making the transitions smoother or, if I blended, I try to roll tissue paper into a very tight tip and blend from dark to light. I know that they use colour shapers for these purposes as well. I don't have any personal experience with them.

May I offer one observation to your posting? It seems on my screen that the lines around the eyes, especially the lower eyelid, are still very visible. Normally we don't see these lines - unless accentuated by purpose and cosmetics - and note them more or less only as colour changes/tonal value changes. What I do when I have some too harsh lines, I form the kneadable eraser or blu tack into a very thin edge and dab it off.

Fireman's kid
03-06-2006, 10:14 AM
Anita, great write up!!! Some really good information here and I haven't even followed the links yet. Of course it will be a while to I post any progress here (not to worry Sults I'm sure I will be last). I plan to finish Class 33 first.

My definition for realism is to capture the person's image and personality. Of course I want someone who knows the subject to recognize them from their features, but I also want them to see some of the person's essence. And I want people who don't know the subject to still feel something from the drawing. In my opinion, Armin is the master at this. In his portrait drawings you can always feel somthing about the subject, make guesses to the type of person they are. He draws you into the subject's life even though you don't know them.

My intention for this portrait (of my daughter) is to put the love I feel for her into the drawing. I want to capture the beauty I see and a bit of her spirit. Oh, and I want it to actually look like her. :lol:

I'll be watching here as I finish up Class 33. Good luck and happy drawing everyone!

03-06-2006, 10:18 AM
Thank you Reinhard. I will try to fix the eye. If you will note, she has on a lot of makeup, and the eyelashes are really too thick (IMHO). You make my day with your help. I don't feel so alone with this. I have never met this woman, she is a RIL image from Terance (who ever that is). I just really like her face and expression. She reminds me of a friend's mother.

03-06-2006, 11:08 AM
Midge, don't worry. Yo'll never be alone. We are all here. As for the eyelashes I learned that sometimes less is more. Even if the reference tells us that this is so, go by your feeling; it is YOUR drawing so you have all the right - including to maintaining the eyelashes as dark as you want them.

03-06-2006, 11:10 AM
Sults, sis & Stacy, take your time. There is no prize to be won for speed. We all will work with our own pace. One artist feels this way another artist something else and all are right!!!!!!!

03-06-2006, 11:12 AM
Here is the version that shows the fixed eye. I have blended in the skin tone on her right side.

I need to go a little bit darker in that area, but I wanted you to know that I am working on it.

03-06-2006, 11:19 AM
Midge, you are a fast lady. I never doubted that you were working on it. For c&c purposes. if you wanted them already now, copuld you be so kind and post both pictures as attachements. If you did this, then I can have both images on my screen at the same time and it helps in comparing.

03-06-2006, 11:31 AM
Here is the side by side. I noticed that I angled the head a bit. But I hope that doesn't matter. Also, in the colored pencil forum they always tell me to work on the background at the same time as the portrait. I haven't learned how to actually do that yet, but was wondering if I am to do that here.

I don't know if you can see it that well. I have dial up so things don't always look like they should.

03-06-2006, 12:30 PM
Anita, you're off to a great start, GF!:) super write up and love your demos! Hi Rein and Midge.

03-06-2006, 12:37 PM
Midge, thanks for posting the pictures side by side, but they are too low in resolution to be able to really see.

Can you post each picture separately using the "manage attachement" button UNDER the message window and select a resolution of 600 (height) for each picture. And add them separately as well so I can arrange them on my screen.

The reason I am so "difficult" is that I think to see something in our left eye but can't really put my finger to is since the resolution is so low. Just to give you an idea.

I think that the line of the upper eyelid is a bit off. It should start a bit lower on our left, go up a bit diagonally, then turn right, have an ever so slight upward curve in a basically straight line, and stop more or less over the right edge of the iris (as a dark line that is), to continue with a sharp downward curved angle towards the nose. I think to see in the drawing a continuous curve of the upper eyelid. The lower eyelid is extremely difficult to make out but I "feel" that you drew it a bit too upwards towards the nose.

p.s. I'd wait for the background until the end and decide then if you wanted to put one in. I am a "no-backgroud-guy". I'm afraid that the rather "tumultuous" background might distract from the drawing. Especially in black and white.
The shading under the eye seems to be less curved in the reference and comes up stepper towrads the nose.

Speaking of the nose, I think the left nostril could come out a bit more. I think to see that the line upwards from the outer edge of the nostril in the reference is in line with the (our) right) edge of the iris while in the drawing this intersection point is more or less halfway in the white of the eye.

I am aware that this might be a bit too early to comment on these imagined details but I saw them so I wanted to comment right away. And please take all these comments with a grain of doubt - this is what I think to see on my screen but that can be misleading as was demonstrated in my observations with Stacy's portrait of her grandfather.

03-06-2006, 01:01 PM
I hope this works:
Here is the grayscale:
It is 600 height/ Edit: I did the attachment as you described, but it doesn't look to be 600 height. Is that because on my computer it is not that big? Sorry, but I am not sure what I am doing.

03-06-2006, 01:04 PM
I see what you mean about the eye. I need to make it go down. Perhaps this is why her age looks to be much younger in my piece. I'll work on it and get back.

Robin Neudorfer
03-06-2006, 01:13 PM
Hi all...
I want to keep up with what is quickly happening here.
Great write up Anita! I also am going to print it out so that I can read it at my leisure. I must think about what realism means to me...hmmmm

Robin Neudorfer
03-06-2006, 01:19 PM
In the advance reply (not a quick post), if you scroll down to your additional options below the typing screen, you will see where it says Attach Files.
If you click on Manage Attachments you will be able to upload pictures from there. It will bring up thumbnail pictures so that when the teacher clicks on them he/she (or anyone for that matter) can bring up a much larger picture. If we click on both we can have side by side pictures to be able to compare. It is also a good method for you as well to be able to see differences.

03-06-2006, 01:29 PM
Going to try this again. Hmmm. I just might be learning more than what I thought was possible in this class.

Mary Woodul
03-06-2006, 01:29 PM
Realism to me would be the rendering of a drawing reaching the realism of it in real life going a little beyond the definition of realism that would be "the depiction of human figures, real objects, or scenes as they appear in nature without distortion or stylization."

I will start my line drawing today after getting my house back to normal after a week of grandaughters.

Midge you are fast and I can see the likeness already.

Anita I know you are busy but if you see this I wish you luck today.:wave:

Robin, Reinhard, Judi, Sults, Billie, Stacy, JayD and if have missed anyone, too.:wave: :grouphug:

03-06-2006, 01:32 PM
Wow! They are both so big. I thought it would put thumbnails on it. This is hugh. Anyway, I worked on the eye some, but now it looks strange to me.
I also darkened the nostral so you can see where the side of it is. I used my caliper and it measures correctly.

Bye the bye Reinhold, you can always tell me things. I would rather hear it early on than wait until I have 30-40 hours into a piece and have to erase the entire thing. Know what I mean? Keep the comments coming. I can learn alot from these things.

Robin Neudorfer
03-06-2006, 01:41 PM
You did it Midge. Yeah!!!
Took me forever to figure out how to quote somebody...
Sometimes you just have to start pushin' buttons a learn by trial and error. Just don't try on a Saturday night when everybody is trying to post. Now that is frustrating.

Anita Murphy
03-06-2006, 05:13 PM
HI everyone - I'm back! What a day! Opened the exhibition and got two commissions!!!!!!!!! :D For portraits, also some interest in a couple of pieces which I did not expect. Job interview was weird - they didn't ask me anything just talked at me which either means I am so good they already have given me the job or so bad that they weren't going to bother. :p

Great to see so much action here.

Thank you Reinhard for holding the fort!

Some great realism definitions going on here.

Midge - it definitely looks like her! Reinhard has been keeping you going. I am going to go back and read carefully once I have a cup of tea (I only just scanned through so far!)

Back in a few minutes.

03-06-2006, 05:20 PM
Anita - Congrats on the commissions ((((YEAH)))).

Mary Woodul
03-06-2006, 05:34 PM
Anita, good for you!!!:clap: :clap: :clap: Congratulations, I knew you were going to have a good day.:)

Anita Murphy
03-06-2006, 06:03 PM
Thank you Midge and Mary! I was dreading today - the nerves started with posting this class last night and by this morning I was a total wreck!

Midge - you work very fast. And you have the likeness. My best advice is now to slow down a little and start looking at the details. Think about shapes, and tonal values. Try working one section at a time. Your basic drawing is good but I think the chin is a fraction too short. Check the distance between the mouth and the chin. I always leave the hair till last, especially if it falls over the face. Thinking logically it is easier to put skin tone all over the forehead and then draw in the hair over the top - next to impossible to do it well if you already have the hair drawn in. I would also try posterizing the image so you can see where the blocks of tonal value are. Check where you have blended on the left (our) cheek and have taken it over the edge of the nose - there is light there around the left nostril. You have made a really good start here.

03-06-2006, 07:47 PM
What level of posterization should i use? I tried 4 and 10. But those are not really the best. What would you recommend?

I checked the chin and it is okay. I believe it is under the chin that you are referring to. I took some of the shading off and we shall see when I do the posterization.

03-06-2006, 07:57 PM
Midge, my experience is 10 for posterisation. This always gave me a prettu good indication where the main shaded areas are, keeping however in mind that this is only an indication/approximation. I work from both, actually 3, the posterisation, the 256 greyscale image, and, most importantly, with the color reference. I find that I can best fine tune looking at the colour reference.

Anita Murphy
03-06-2006, 07:58 PM
Midge - I tried it at 15- I think this gives you a good range - I think I counted about 9 levels in there. One thing about this is it shows you which areas should be around the same tonal value. Don't stick like glue to this but use it as a guide. As to the shin I think you may be right it might be just a matter of shading - I think the dark shadow to the left makes it appear longer than it is. Lets see what Reinhard says - he is the measurement master!

03-06-2006, 08:06 PM
Anita & Midge, I thought at first as well that the chin was too short, but it really isn't. What throws us off is that the sading under the chin is still missing which in the reference makes it appear longer.

Midge, thanks for the posting of the reference and your drawing in a form they can be viewed side by side. I have to ask for your patience until tomorrow. It is 2:06 AM here and I am truly tired.

Good night and see you tomorrow. Keep on drawing so I have something to look at.

03-06-2006, 08:51 PM
Congrats Anita!!! :clap: :thumbsup: :clap:

Midge~ Slow down! You are making us all look bad!:D

Anita and Rein~I will finish 33 yet, still researching the uniform too. So I will start my line drawing in the meantime.

Hi Mary, Robin and JayD:wave:

03-06-2006, 09:14 PM
Hi Judi!!

Anita, outstanding presentation and congrats on the commissions you artist you!!!

Everything looks good here.

03-06-2006, 09:19 PM
Please don't tell me to slow down. I am bed ridden, and this is the only thing I have to do to take my mind off of things. You all have a life, so art is not your top priority. I am not trying to make anyone look bad. I'll not post until tomorrow when Reinhold is back.

03-06-2006, 09:26 PM
Judi - I just saw the smile face after your comment. I guess you were joking. Sorry I took it to heart. I am in some pain tonight. I'll post my update tomorrow morning. Have a good night. Midge.

03-06-2006, 09:35 PM
Midge, I know where you are coming from. I am diabetic and am currently in a battle with impending blindness. Every drawing that I do is a real struggle. IF any of us say ANYTHING that might offend you in ANY way please either drop them a pm OR if you do not feel comfortable, please drop me a pm. I want your experience here to be a happy one. Best wishes.--jay

ps-she was marveling at the speed at which you work--it takes me three days to draw a straight line. It was a compliment.:)

03-06-2006, 10:41 PM
Midge-OMGoodness-I know your situation and I would never say anything to offend you.:( It is a comment made all the time in Class and the WDT as some of us are slower than others-that is all.:(

03-07-2006, 12:01 AM
Sorry to be such a poop. I was in a lot of pain, and for some reason it just struck me wrong. You all should be able to joke around without worrying about someone taking it to heart. With enough pain killers I can take anything (LOL). In all seriousness, I do everything as though I will not be able to do it tomorrow, because I never know rather I will be able to or not.

JayD, I am sorry to hear about your vision. I lost mine for about 3 years and it was very difficult. But you remember this - you can still do art even if you are blind. It is just a different medium is all. If you want to know how, pm me and I'll share with you what I learned. I was blessed to get my sight back, even though it is limited. I will not go into detail about all my physical and mental complaints, just enough to say that I am sorry for making such a fuss.

I will post my work, and you are all welcome to comment on it. Good or bad. And please, don't stop joking because of me. I like a good joke. In fact, there is the one about the blonde (I used to be blonde) who bought a thermos because the sales person said it would keep her hot stuff hot and her cold stuff cold. The next day at work someone asked her what she had in it. She said "Two cups of coffee and a popcycle".

Have a good night yo'all

03-07-2006, 12:18 AM
Here is my latest version:

03-07-2006, 12:49 AM
Talent always shines through Anita and you definately glow. Fantastic write up and demo also for this class..you have made everything very clear and easy to understand and the differences in the techniques for male/ female was really interesting. I am going to try to start my line drawing in the morning and do the greyscale as I go along. Maybe by Wed. or Thurs. I will be able to post them. Brenda

Anita Murphy
03-07-2006, 09:39 AM
Thank you Brenda! :D Looking forward to seeing your work.

Midge - you are doing so well with this! Keep working those tonal values to get the shaping to the face. You have captured that friendly smile completely!

03-07-2006, 10:41 AM
This is about as dark as I feel comfortable going.


Mary Woodul
03-07-2006, 10:45 AM
You really have the likeness
Midge. That looks good!:)

Anita Murphy
03-07-2006, 10:54 AM
Midge - its totally up to you how much you want to push the darks.

03-07-2006, 11:57 AM
I think I'll sign it and call it finished.
I hope others come soon so you all will have something to do. It sounds like you might just have a small class on this one. Or perhaps they just haven't finished the other class yet. Then, look out you will be so busy you'll scream for a breather. (lol)

Thanks for all the input. It really helps to have others comment on your work. Fresh eyes can always see better.

Mary Woodul
03-07-2006, 12:17 PM
Midge, do another one with us. I was just going to start mine today.

03-07-2006, 12:23 PM
Thank you Mary. I just might do that. I have one that I am awaiting permission on. If that comes through, I will surely join you. Thanks for asking. I am looking forward to seeing what you will be doing.

Anita Murphy
03-07-2006, 12:36 PM
Oh yes Midge - do another!!! :D

I'm going to try and find a ref today for me to do - I don't think there is anything like practice to make perfect!

03-07-2006, 12:37 PM
Midge, good job! you amaze me how fast you achieved a likeness. are you doing your portraits just for class or will you be selling these to your subjects?

03-07-2006, 12:40 PM
Hey Fozzie:wave:
Just a hello-your avatar always makes me smile.

03-07-2006, 12:44 PM
Hi Billie. This one was just for class. She is from the RIL. My next one is from the Stock Exchange and looks like a lot of fun. I do others for clients, but these in pencil are my first in black and white, so I am still learning. I normally work in Pastel or Colored Pencil. But this is fun. Don't you agree?

03-07-2006, 02:50 PM
Sugar and spice and all things nice
That’s what little girls are made of!
But take this advice:
To much sugar and to much spice,
can turn you into a monstrous device.

Hi Anita - congrats on your commisions, new status as guide and a good write up for this class.

Midge - very nice work to start the class.

As regarding realism in portraiture, here are my personal definitions:

Photorealism - a portrait you at first glance could mistake for a photo.

Realism - a portrait where all facial proportions and features are as one would expect them to be IRL. The portrait can contain other elements which would not be possible to have placed that way IRL.

Meaning that all of these are realism to me.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2006/71908-realism1.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2006/71908-realism2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Mar-2006/71908-realism3.jpg

I have started my work for class. 0.5 mm mech pencil B on smooth studio paper A4.

All critics, advice and remarks welcome ( but might be used against you :D :D )

03-07-2006, 02:51 PM
Midge, i wish i could say 'yes' but the only portrait i've attempted since joining WC is one of my dad.:( it's sitting on the shelf waiting to be transferred to good paper and completed. i didn't join the original class because my ref doesn't show enough detail for the realism required. i may just get it back out and try my hand at this since class requirements have changed. right now i'm struggling w/the WDT horse and reworking a CP piece.:rolleyes:

Hi Judi!!:wave: isn't that cat hilarious? it reminds me not to take myself too seriously.

Anita Murphy
03-07-2006, 02:53 PM
But take this advice:
To much sugar and to much spice,
can turn you into a monstrous device.


Mange Tak Karsten!

Nice definition of realism and photorealism!

The drawings are looking good - the lips are very nice and soft and the eye has a wicked glint in it - maybe too much sugar?????

03-07-2006, 04:55 PM
Karsten, are these from photographs, or from you imagination?

03-07-2006, 05:54 PM
Here is my second line drawing. The scanner was dirty, so the blotches:

Here is the photograph:

While there is not much variation in color, I love her smile. So will be attempting to put some blossom in her cheeks. She has the greenist eyes. I can almost hear her laugh, can't you?

Robin Neudorfer
03-07-2006, 06:04 PM
Billie, any one that can do that apple and lilies can do this, or last class. Come keep me company in 33. I miss the chatter there. It is my first, so we can moan together.
I just love that apple...

Anita Murphy
03-07-2006, 06:08 PM
Midge - great line drawing. I love these happy smiley refs you find! A lot of nice contours there to work with.

03-07-2006, 06:49 PM
What is a good way to cover large areas of black with graphite, without it looking blotchy? I doing the blouse it looks very blotchy.

03-07-2006, 06:54 PM
Billie, any one that can do that apple and lilies can do this, or last class. Come keep me company in 33. I miss the chatter there. It is my first, so we can moan together.
I just love that apple...

thanks Robin.:) i just might take you up on that! it's probably the only way i'll ever get that portrait done.:rolleyes: let me get this @#$#% WDT horse done and i'll be seeing you in class 33...ok?

03-07-2006, 07:03 PM
Here is the latest rendition:
See what I mean about the blotchy blouse?

Anita Murphy
03-07-2006, 07:03 PM
Midge - try using a tissue to blend - this seems to take out a lot of the blotchiness in graphite in large areas.

Billie - get over there into Class 33!!! :D

Anita Murphy
03-07-2006, 07:04 PM
Oh Boy - we x-posted Midge - this is looking fab!

Robin Neudorfer
03-07-2006, 07:18 PM
Midge, I just did a dark jacket on my portrait last night. Check it out in 33.
I just did cross hatching very close together, in many different directions, and kept doing it over and over again. In some of the darkest areas, since I used a Vellum surface I am going back in and filling in some of the white "holes".
But blending is good too. Just depends on the look you want. You may have to go over it again if you use a tissue. Tissue takes some of the graphite off.
Good luck it is looking really good.

03-07-2006, 07:59 PM
Midge, looking very good so far. My only concern is, is the upper eyelid on our left eye realy that wide next to the nose? I can't make it out in the reference.

03-07-2006, 08:01 PM
To all of you. I apologise for not being active, I feel not up to par. Forgive me, please. I promise to get better - I hope!

03-07-2006, 08:05 PM
Reinhard - I appologise for calling you Reinhold. My grandfather was a Reinhold. I get the two names mixed up. You get to feeling better, and we will carry on.

I checked that eye twice myself. They are both so different. I am not sure I picked the best picture to work from.

Mary Woodul
03-07-2006, 09:26 PM
That is looking great Midge. I love the smile!

Promise to post tomorrow. I have one eye done but want to do a little more to show.

Anita Murphy
03-07-2006, 09:50 PM
Looking forward to seeing it Mary.

Midge - are you having problems?

03-07-2006, 10:36 PM
GREAT portrait present-a-tion Anita! :thumbsup: pardon the pun ;)
Hopefully we'll see more members participating SOON!!

oh...and don't forget to "rate this thread" people! :)

Murray :cool:

03-07-2006, 11:09 PM
Congratsssss Anita :)

03-08-2006, 12:18 AM
Hey, guys-Im still in but I am having trouble enlarging my ref image to a decent size--any suggestions. I need to be able to see the ref but I keep getting a photo a little over wallet size. go figure!

03-08-2006, 06:54 AM
Dear friends,

one more comment for this class and all portraits. Please pay the closest attention to

P - S - S

Position. Make sure that the individual parts of the portrait are in the correct location and with respect to each other.

Shape. Play close attention that the shape of the parts is as close to the reference as poosible. The cut of the yes, the shape of the mouth are so extremely important. Irises should be round (if the person loks at you), so should the pupils be. And the pupils MUST sit absolutely in the middle of the iris. The shape of the mouth.

Shading. Especially and most of all form shading. How often have we measured, overlayed, checked and all the positioning and shapes were correct but still it was not the person we wanted to depict. I call this phenomenon "lost in shading". Shading is of extreme importance (as I am discovering anew with each portrait I do). And in this class, where we will most likely use of lot of blending due to the nature of the subjects, it would be so easy to lose it all by too fast and inaccurate "covering the white of the paper with the blending tool" and pay probably less a attention to the shadings caused by the underlying bonal and tissue structure which makes out the initial recognisability.

Just food for thought from my personal experience.

03-08-2006, 07:20 AM
Many of my initial reference sources didn't materialize and my time and patience is wearing thin trying to find the 'perfect' one. So I am going with this one - at last for the moment. The photograph doesn't have classic shadows, but in the real world of commissions, the majority of images that you work from are of a simiilar quality, so I look upon it as practice.

I have studied the image carefully and will use the faint shadows and intensify them to give the image substance. If it works, it works, if not - its experience. And daughter No. 1 wants her portrait too...:)

This is my youngest daughter, Briony. The reference and the initial line drawing that I did earlythis morning. I will transfer the image to some bristol vellum or smooth tonight if there's any light left in the day when I get home.

I just tried to attach the images but get an error message. There must be some problem happening, I'll try again later.

Anita Murphy
03-08-2006, 08:41 AM
Looking forward to seeing the ref Jeanette.

"lost in shading".
You are so right Reinhard! Isn't it strange that you can have all the pieces right but something incredibly subtle will change the whole thing!! I found this when I was doing my SP in Class 18 - I'd add some shading in one place and turn the picture from me into one of my sisters! Funnily enough I see no resemblance between any of us!

03-08-2006, 10:01 AM
Here is the latest rendition, plus the grayscale. I need to go much darker, but haven't felt up to it yet. I will work on it more today. I do have a question: I have done blonde hair in pastel, CP, acrylic, but never in pencil. What is the best way to do it? Just follow the grayscale? I know, a stupid question requires a stupid answer. But this is a serious question. Thanks for the serious answer. (lol)

JayD - after you open the file, go down to the "Manage Attachments" and add your files there. They will make them large. Thanks to this class for teaching me that! :wave:

03-08-2006, 10:06 AM
It looks to me as though there are only small x's so I will try again later. Perhaps it is just my dial up. UGH!

03-08-2006, 10:34 AM
Midge, absolutely no need to apologise. I knew who you meant.

You are correct, on my screen I see omly "them x-es" as well.

03-08-2006, 10:43 AM
here is another attempt to upload the images: This time they are straight away in the file:


I know that the grayscale is much darker than my sketch. I am working on that now. It is just hard to image that someone so pale could be so dark, isn't it!

03-08-2006, 11:11 AM
The darker I make her complexion the muddier it appears. I am not sure about this. It is getting farther away from the photograph than I like it.
What should I do?

03-08-2006, 11:30 AM
Midge, before you go darker, make sure that the shading corresponds with the reference. Concentrate on making only the shades that are there and not what we know of shadings in faces. As I wrote, don't risk that "lost in shading" phenomenon that happened too often to me.

Please take a look a the upper (our left) eyelid. The 2 lines (eyelid and crease) are pretty parallel and have a triangular shading more or less at the height of the inner border of the iris.

Additionally, please take a look at the shadow of (our) left cheek. I think to see there 2 things. Firstly, you have a light arc, while in the reference it is a slightly slating line (to the (our) left) and then it's pretty straight down very close the the corners of the mouth. You are too far to our left IMHO.

In the right (our) eye the upper eyelid extends further down and has a line to the outside. And try to shade the crease line a little bit, so it indicates a slight "overhang".

Left (our) corner of the mouth. Under the first teeth there is more shading in the reference; plus it comes closer to the nose.

Eyebrow of (our) left eye. You have a teardrop shape that I can't see in the reference.

Our left shoulder. In your drawing the line is too curved and comes down too quickly. First a little bit more straight (though angled) and then sharper down.

Our left eye. I think it is a tad too wide open and the inner corner should extend a bit closer to the nose and be very pointed.

The line of the upper eyelid (crease) comes closer to the nose.

The tip of the nose should be a bit more pointed and darkened to indicate roundness.

Sorry that this is so unorganised but I am jumping back and forth and always think to detect new things.

03-08-2006, 11:31 AM
I believe there was a problem with the image uploader earlier Midge, which might account for your problem. I had a similar thing happen, but it seems to be working now.

So here is the ref and the initial line drawing. I'll transfer it tonight if there's enough light when I get home.


And the line drawing


03-08-2006, 11:34 AM
Here is the latest version. Reinhard I understand what you said, but am not sure that after I applied it it works.
Can you see how muddy it looks? I used my value finder (a white card with a hole in it) to match the darkness, and this is what I got. UGH!

03-08-2006, 11:36 AM
Jeanette, we cross posted. I really like your reference photograph. It will be intersting watching you progress. It is good to have company.

03-08-2006, 11:45 AM
Thanks Midge. I'll be making some progress on it when I can.

I don't think your drawing looks muddy. I believe what you're seeing is the comparison to the white area around the figure. Once you've filled in the shadows entirely on the face, it will all make sense and come together. Just take your time and judge the shapes of shadows. Its a bit like a jigsaw puzzle in some ways.

I think what you've got so far is excellent. :)

03-08-2006, 11:55 AM
Reinhald. Did you add to the post? I will print it out and go over it. Thanks for the input. I will be back when I have made the corrections. THanks.

03-08-2006, 12:01 PM
Midge, very good and yes, it worked very well indeed! ... but

the line of the cheek next to the nose on OUR left side still needs your attention as I pointed out in my comments.
The right (our) side under the jawbone needs to be bit darker to indicate receding tissue there.
On OUR left side the lines noct to the nose and the cheek should be smoothed a bit more into the surrounding shading. They are a bit harsh on my screen.

03-08-2006, 12:06 PM
Jeanette, lovely soft reference and good line drawing. 2 things that need attention when you get to the shading. The sizes of the pupils are nocticeable diiferent between the eyes and the upper eyelid has an ever so slight upward peak nearly directly over the right (our) corner of the pupil. On OUR right the hairline is a bit too smoothly rounded in the line drawing. The reference has a "corner" on the right side.
And I think to see that the upper lip on OUR right side has a little bit more outward curve. All very early and easy to correct once you get to the shading but you should be aware of these poits IMHO.

03-08-2006, 12:46 PM
Thanks for the input Reinhard. I've made a couple of adjustments during lunch and hopefully this is better on the eyes, the hairline and the mouth. Must have had a right side problem early this morning! :)


Robin Neudorfer
03-08-2006, 01:02 PM
These are looking smashing.
Midge, I am so glad you decided to do another. I am learning from Reinhards comments to you.
Jeanette- A beautiful daughter! What a lovely photo. I gives me hope that I can pull out a not so great photo and perhaps come out with a decent picture. I am not sure I will be able to jump in this class though. I must finish JOSH and then put together our next class. I am watching though as I really want to try a female version.

03-08-2006, 01:04 PM
midge, thanks for the advice. I am actually triying to print a bigger image with better resolution--so far no luck! I suspect it may be that the age of the photo limits my options.

Mary Woodul
03-08-2006, 02:08 PM
Midge, you are doing so well with your portrait.

Jeanette, you have a beautiful daughter and I know your portrait will be excellent.

Hi Anita, Robin, Reinhard and JayD.:wave:

Bristol smooth, f wooden pencil, mech. 2b for eyes only and mech. HB for skin. I couldn't seem to circulate with the f wooden so I tried with the hb mech. that seems to slide better but I am not sure what 'm comfortable with yet. I don't know hat to use for the lighter areas.


03-08-2006, 02:29 PM
Mary, que bonito el dibujo y guapa la chica.

I see two things, easily to be adjusted. One: Please try to darken the iris a bit and only opposite to the catchlight leave it lighter indicating the light shining through. Two: Take a closer look at the jawline. I think that it comes out a bit more. Right now I think to see that the line that starts under her ear is continuing down to the neck. Women have more slender necks than men. So in this case, the line that indicates the neck starts further in.

03-08-2006, 02:31 PM
Jeanette, the eyes and the lip - much better. Hairline still needs that the line from the center which goes out to OUR right should be a little straighter and turn downwards a bit later.

03-08-2006, 02:33 PM
JayD, how do you get this picture into your computer. If this is a real photo and you have a scanner, scan it in the highest resolution giving you more room to "play" with when adjusting for printout or draw from the screen.

03-08-2006, 02:34 PM
Mary, one more thing. The .... see below. Somehow the computer posted on it's own. Strange little animal :evil:

03-08-2006, 02:38 PM
Mary, one more thing. The line of the hair next to the ear should be smoother and less "edged". The corner/edge/turning point of the jawline comes later and is VERY smooth. She is young and therefore has an even smoother curved jawline. How old is she btw? My guess is somewhere between 13 and 15. If that's true, according to Andrew Loomis, this is the age in where she has lost most of teh child and has as yet not fully female lines - meaning, smooth, smooth, smooth is the key for her drawing. You achieved already an incredibly smooth skin. Keep it up.

Mary Woodul
03-08-2006, 02:43 PM
Thank you, for the indications Reinhard, I'll print this out and work on them. She just turned 13 but is very tall for her age. That is interesting Reinhard, and you have pointed our very important things about age that I had not thought of.:)

03-08-2006, 02:53 PM
I must say everyone's work is looking good. I wish I could say the same for my own. This is just not looking as good as I hoped it would. Still appears muddy. Reinhard, I made the corrections. Let me know what you think.

Fixed the eyebrow, the eye, the nose, the left (our) cheek, the shoulder, and the teeth. Still not satisfactory, IMHO.

03-08-2006, 04:13 PM
Here is the latest rendition. Then going to rest for awhile.


Anita Murphy
03-08-2006, 04:21 PM
Hi Guys!! Sorry I've been absent - demonstrations in town and what should have been a fifteen minute ride home in a cab turned into a 4 mile walk.

Looks like sterling work going on here.

Jeanette - Lovely reference!

Midge - wow leaps and bounds!! This is stunning work!

Mary - I'm going to go and take a more careful look but its going to be a stunner - I can feel it in my bones! :D

03-08-2006, 05:07 PM
Midge, I fully agree with the teacher, but......

I have taken the liberty to print your drawing and tried to indicate where I think you might consider some adaptations. They are all minor but would IMHO improve the likeness.

I hope you allowed me to do this.

Mary Woodul
03-08-2006, 05:12 PM
Midge, I like your work, you know how to convey personality.

Anita, demonstrations in Mexico City?:rolleyes: I don't envy you! Hope you don't have to go out much, there.

Mary Woodul
03-08-2006, 05:15 PM
BTW, Reinhard, I have forgotten to thank you for the time you take to analyze each of our work so carfully and it is really the only way to learn.

03-08-2006, 05:34 PM
Mary, my absolute pleasure. When I started I was helped, so all I do is give-back.

03-08-2006, 05:49 PM
Reinhard, I can't read what you wrote. Please number the items, then give me a number by number readout. I will do as you ask all might leader of mine. (lol) I really appreciate how much you help. Thanks in advance.

03-08-2006, 06:09 PM
Anita - Selv mange tak. Kan du mere dansk ?
Midge - Nice second work. Most of my drawings are after ref photos and all of these were.
Jeanette - Nice girl.
Mary - Nice girl, Nice eye.
Reinhard - A lot of nice work.

Update attached.
no could not attach so inserted instead.

OOH my could anyway.

03-08-2006, 06:15 PM
Midge, I was afraid of that (that you can't read what I wrote on the drawing that is), so here we go.

1&2 refer to OUR left eye; 3&9 to OUR righ eye

1. Extend. What I mean is, please to extend both, the crease of the upper eyelid as well as the pointed inner corner of the eye.

2. Less white of the eye: In the reference the white of the eye is considerable smaller than in your drawing. I recommend to just look at the form of the white of the eye, draw it and fill what's still there with shading.

3. Bring eyelid faster up: I think to see that the eye in the reference "opens" faster in the reference. If you brought up the line of the eyelid steeper, you will achieve this.

4. A little more black: In the corner of the mouth you can add more darks still, And while you're at it, darken the teeth in the corner of the mouth a bit. They recede and will receive therefore less light.

5. A bit more open: The space between the teeth appears to be too narrow

6. Add hair on the back of the head: I think that the line of the back of the head comes down a bit too steeply in your drawing.

7. Softer: I suggest to see if you can't get a bit more shading to this area and make is softer.

8. Straighter and narrower: In my feeling the 2 shaded areas nost to the mouth (OUR right) are straighter in appearance and closer together, making the smile more prominent.

9. A little stepper crease: As with the upper eyelid, the crease of the upper eyelid could come up a bit steeper as well.

10. No text as yet: I suggest to darken the shading on this cheek a bit and observe if the form I tried to indicate comes close.

And while you are at it, please extend the (OUR) left eyebrow a bit more inward towards the nose.

All minor things, as I sais. Please don't hate me.

03-08-2006, 06:32 PM
How could I hate you? I always appreciate it when people help me be better than I was before I met them. That is the definition of a true friend: Someone who helps you to be better than you were before you met them.

I'll print this out, and take a look at what needs to be done. I will be back.

Anita Murphy
03-08-2006, 06:42 PM
Karsten - Jeg kan taler en lille Dansk. and thats probably wrong! My father was Danish. Could you post your ref next to the drawing so we can do a comparison? Its looking very good so far!

Midge - looks like Reinhard is piling up the homework!!!

Mary Woodul
03-08-2006, 06:54 PM
Karsten, that is just incredibly stunning! Your layering is making me green with envy:envy: , in the good way as they say in Spanish.

Thank you for your comment!

03-08-2006, 06:59 PM
Your Danish was nearly correct - Bravo :clap: :clap:

Yes I can do that but please keep in mind that I am not aiming for an ecxact likeness to the photo. I'm satisfied as long as the face is looking realistic.


Anita Murphy
03-08-2006, 07:44 PM
Karsten - you are too kind! :p I wish I had learned Danish - still might some day! I think you are on the right track with the drawing. I would slightly darken the further side of her face and under her left (our) eye and where the hair shadow is on the left cheek. The right (our) side of her mouth tilts up just a little more. The left eye is arched a little too much in the centre - its more level. I think just these few changes will really confirm the likeness. You're doing great!

03-08-2006, 07:54 PM
Thank you Robin, I hope I can do something with this photo, it isn't the greatest in terms of light.

Mary, thank you. Your drawing is lovely so far, she has such expressive eyes.

Anita Murphy
03-08-2006, 07:55 PM
Mary - I think the eyebrow is slightly too arched. And what Reinhard said :p :D

Anita Murphy
03-08-2006, 07:56 PM
Jeanette - your daughter is stunning - lock her up and throw away the key!!

03-08-2006, 07:58 PM
Thanks Anita, sounds like you've had a trying day.

Thank you Karstenbuch. Your drawing is amazing so far. The skin tone is lovely. Are you doing this in circulism? With what pencils?

03-08-2006, 07:58 PM
Here is the final input on my lady.

Anita Murphy
03-08-2006, 08:09 PM
Midge - this is lovely - well done! Are you feeling like you are making progress? I really think you are!

Jeanette - slightly! :rolleyes: It gets better when I come here!

03-08-2006, 08:14 PM
Midge, you did absolutely fine. My compliments :clap: :clap: :clap:
What's next?

Mary Woodul
03-08-2006, 09:12 PM
Jeanette thank you, I'm looking forward to your's.

Anita, thank you, yes you are right about the eyebrow. I'll fix that.

Midge, :clap: :clap: :clap: awe that looks so good. Please keep us company with another one.:)

Anda G
03-08-2006, 09:23 PM
Hi, everybody! I finally made it. :D

This is Effie from drawing class.

I am not 100% happy with the lips, yet. I'll get them. :)

Andagail :wave:

Anita Murphy
03-08-2006, 09:29 PM
Welcome Andagail!!!
Nice outline. The lips don't look off to me but its hard to tell off a scan/photograph on the line drawing. hmmmmmm maybe the right side of the bottom lip should be more upright than at the angle at which you have it. Maybe a teeny bit - what do you think?

Anda G
03-08-2006, 09:45 PM
Hi, Anita. Yes, I think so. I'll fix the lips before I start any shading.


Robin Neudorfer
03-08-2006, 10:01 PM
Now wait a minute, Andagail, now I count two...How is that I can't even seem to finish one. Could it be the elastic tied to my computer? Let me think...

03-09-2006, 09:45 AM
lol - Robin, once you get started you won't be able to stop. This art thing is very addictive isn't it! I love the way you do flowers. I wish I could do them, but I have never really tried. My neighbor keeps asking me to draw things to please her, and at first I always did, but now I am doing things that please me. I love portraits first and formost. Once I learned how to measure things it became so much easier. Me and my calipers and templates are ready for anything. (lol). I should have said anything, I can't seem to draw a horse.

Andagail, I am looking forward to seeing your work. I can't see the line drawing on my screen (I have dial up and it is really slow).

Jeannette, your is coming along nicely. I like your style Lady.

Mary and Karsten, Yours are wonderful also.

I am so glad that others joined in here. I was feeling very spoiled by having the teachers all to myself.

Anda G
03-09-2006, 02:17 PM
Hi, Robin! :D I am doing 2 classes, now. I have about 2 weeks without art class projects (at school) to worry about, so I have time.

Hi, Midge. I think you can see this one better.

I have started to lay in the graphite. I am putting it on kind of like I do pastels. I will have it blended by the next post.

I have used .5 and .7 mechanical pencils and a 3b pencil. Bristol smooth 8" by 10".

Reference post:http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4418211&postcount=134

See you all next time.

Andagail :wave:

03-09-2006, 02:24 PM
Andagail, this is looking really good. Keep it coming.

I was wondering. Can I do a picture of a little girl? She is in the hospital and we don't know if she will live or not. I would like to do it as a gift to her mother. If it is not appropriate for this class, may I get some of you'all to critique it in another spot? She is one of triplets that I did over the Christmas holiday for her grandmother. I did those in CP and Pastel.

Robin Neudorfer
03-09-2006, 02:24 PM
Anda - LUCKY!!! ...but if I think about it...I am taking a color class (HW), started an abstract, finishing a portrait, and writing a D&S lesson... (oh and working a little at being a wife and a mother), hmmmm...a bit hard on myself at times. I just don't like to be behind the crowd. I need to find Stacy...
I like the addition to your signature line. I tried to change mine last night and it was giving me error messages..."Can't be over four lines..." gave up.

Anita Murphy
03-09-2006, 02:26 PM
Midge - go fo it!

03-09-2006, 03:04 PM
Here is Brenna:
Here is my line drawing. I started on her eyes.
I was thinking perhaps I made them too dark. She has green eyes.

03-09-2006, 03:47 PM
Okay, here we go again. Here is version 2.

Question: Because the fur around her face is white, how should I show that with the ball on the bottom of the hat? Thanks in advance for the input. Bye the bye, I am on a roll today, so will be giving lots of input.

03-09-2006, 03:52 PM
Midge, you are so incredibly creative and productive. Great to see you continuing.

Please check in both eyes how the upper eyelid comes up from the nose. I think they should be much steeper.

03-09-2006, 04:51 PM
Here is revision 3. Thanks Reinhard, I will check the eyes.

Here is the grayscale:

Anda G
03-09-2006, 05:05 PM
Hi, Midge. Great start on your little girl. Cute as can be.:cat:

Robin, I do consider myself lucky. I feel blessed to be able to learn all this "stuff". :D So cool. :clap:

I don't have near the responsibilities that you do. Good luck getting it all done. And enjoy it while you do so.

On the signature banner- I brought up my old banner, moved and deleted layers, then popped in my brother's and the dog picture. There was a blank spot in the middle that I filled with the colorful icons turned vertically. I couldn't figure out how to change the size of the banner after it was made. :o
I had to go back and find the instructions on signature banners so I'd remember how to do that! :lol:

Andagail :wave:

03-09-2006, 05:15 PM
Hi all
A down day today, nought seems to be going smooth. Still lets make the effort and post WIP, then I can catch up on some snoozing.Please go to town on th C&C badly needed, Oh the hair is a nightmare to come. Also have decided to have an oval frame so will crop the shoulder out.

03-09-2006, 05:17 PM
Dony understand this, its white Art Spectrum paper and 2B pencil, so why is it so dark? Should I try another shot?

Robin Neudorfer
03-09-2006, 05:24 PM
I can see it, don't know about the pros here.
I love it! What I have learned from Mike Sibley and others about hair is that you can either put in the graphite and then pick the highlights out, you can also learn a little about indenting for some of the area, and lay the graphite over the indention marks, but mainly for hair you see it as abstract sections, and then draw it in the different values, and voila you have hair.

03-09-2006, 05:47 PM
Midge, update looking fine. As you said, eyes. Really think of her upper eyelids nealy as a rectangle without the lower line. And see that the lines from the outside are inward slanted. On OUR right eye you have it basically only the other way around. Slanted from the outside and steep on the inside.

Les, what can I say?????????????? WOW !!!!!!! Fantastic start so far. Quite a difference from the male protrait. You have reached another level, honestly.

2 minor things at this stage from me. Take a look at her lower lip. In the middle (teeth-side) you seem to have a curve while in the reference, due to the smile, this line is nearly straight. And, could you check the distance between nose and upper lip? It looks a bit high/wide.

Waiting for the updates from both of you.

03-09-2006, 07:14 PM
Here is revision 4:

I tried redoing the eyes, but am not sure that I got it.

03-09-2006, 07:27 PM
Midge, a lot better. Do look however still once more at the (our) right eye and make that upward curve as steep as the left (our) eye.

03-09-2006, 08:16 PM
Reinhard, I checked the photograph, I believe the right eye is correct. It is more of a slant than a straight up and down. IMHO.

Here is version 5:
I have been trying to get the background shaded, but not so much that it takes away from the portrait. I felt it needed it due to the whiteness of the fur. What do you think? I also matched the darkness of the face with the photo and they are dead on. Now I just need to darken the hair and the cap.

03-09-2006, 08:19 PM
Midge, thanks for the update. It goes to show that images on the screen do not always represent the reality.

As for the background I have to defer to others. I am absolutely no background guy and therefore are at a loss.

It's 2:19 AM here and I have to sign off. See you tomorrow.

Anita Murphy
03-09-2006, 08:45 PM
Midge - this is looking great - each piece you do you can see your growth! I agree with the pale graphite layer for the background to bring out the white of the fur? I really like the way you have done her jacket - super textures!

Anita Murphy
03-09-2006, 08:54 PM
Les - wow - looking good already! On her mouth - on our left in the ref it goes up not straight, and slightly down at the right side.

03-09-2006, 09:02 PM
Thank you for all your help Reinhard. Sleep well, and we'll see you tomorrow.
Hi Anita. Good to see you again. Thank you for the comments on my latest piece. I'll finish this piece tonight so I can get it out tomorrow. There might be one more post before I go to bed.

Thanks to everyone for all your kind comments, and help on the portraits. You have all been super.

03-09-2006, 09:06 PM
Reinhart. here tis, feel free to say if still not right if so. That right eye, ours is giving me trouble also.

Anita, ta so, will look at it next, must have a snooze feeling lousy maybe a cold coming out or lack of snoozie, G/C have them. C&C most welcome.

Anda G
03-09-2006, 09:10 PM
Striver, that looks pretty good to me. :)

Midge, you are getting your portrait done quickly! :thumbsup: Looks good, too.

I blended on mine and erased some. I have more refining to do and then another layer.

Andagail :wave:

First post: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4418211&postcount=134

03-09-2006, 09:22 PM
Well, this is it for tonight. I'll need to work on the hair tomorrow morning. My mind and eyes have shut down for the night. See you all tomorrow.

Anita Murphy
03-09-2006, 09:35 PM
Les - don't miss the shadow over the teeth - the upper lip causes shadow and actually only two teeth are catching the light. I think the depth of the right eye is a little too much at the moment, make the eye a touch narrower (top to bottom). The light source is from above so note the shadows in the eye sockets and under the nose. The tonal values on the sides of the nose are not nearly as deep. Leave the hair until the face is complete. The line from her chin that runs parallel to her jaw is a little deeper in tonal value than you have it at the moment. And her neck is in much deeper shadow. The angle of the mouth is much better. Hope you feel better soon!

03-09-2006, 09:36 PM
Hello Midge & Andagail from Auckland New Zealand.

Anita Murphy
03-09-2006, 09:38 PM
Andagail - nice start!!! Check the depth of the forehead. I think yours is little high. The tonal value of the shadow along the side of her nose is very deep. Under her bottom lip try and lift out some of the tonal value you have there - its a little dark at the moment. This is such a pretty girl!!!

Anita Murphy
03-09-2006, 09:39 PM
Midge - I think the background is great! I need to check against the reference but you might want to make the hat a little darker. This is a cute little picture!

03-09-2006, 09:49 PM
Thanks Anita, will look at those points. Wedding cake just arrived and the cats at the fish I just filletted for the wife. Life is a hoot on times.

03-09-2006, 09:53 PM
Oh, any idea's. The upload is coming out dark also the digi photo. Yet the board is white, also the pencil work is not really dark. Why such a dark upload etc?

Anita Murphy
03-09-2006, 11:36 PM
Les - I always put my photo into greyscale and then adjust the brightness/contrast until it comes as close as possible to the original. There is supposed to be a trick for photographing white paper. Friend who worked with a photographer is finding out for me - I will post what he finds out!

Wedding cake? Did I miss something???????

Robin Neudorfer
03-10-2006, 01:43 AM
Midge, this is just too cute!!!

03-10-2006, 01:59 AM
Okay I haven't followed the rules..I've been busy and working on this in bits and pieces but keep forgetting to post WIP's. Sorry, I'll stand in the back of the class now....but first here is what I have. It's on Bristol smooth 9 x 12 with F pencil.Please C&C..I am close but it is a long way from being there yet. Brenda http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2006/67372-Eva2.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2006/67372-eva1.jpg

03-10-2006, 02:01 AM
Thank you Anita.
Step son's wedding tomorrow,wife picked up the cake as we have to take it along. Had to buy another shirt for it, that's two Ive got now, uncomfortable wearing two shirts. Now where did I last see my left shoe?

Robin Neudorfer
03-10-2006, 03:16 AM
You had to buy a shirt for the cake? hmmmm....
Are you in charge of the decorations Les?
Interesting theme...
are you sure your left shoe isn't on the wrong foot?
They do things rather different in Auckland, don't they?
Have a great celebration!!!

03-10-2006, 07:15 AM
Les, you are improving with each step you show us.

I have taken the liberty to print out your drawing and mark the adaptations which could be made on it and numbered them.

Additionally to what Anita wrote already, her my observations.

1. If you hold a hand like this, the ring-finger is still visible. Less but still there. Check this out, please. Additionally, the last joint (towards the tip of the finger) has to be rather angled. I think to see that you have it a bit too round, and, the shading of the underside of the tip of the little finger should indicate a little more the width of the finger. Right now it looks on my screen as if the little finger is VERY small there.

2. Please re-check the upper lip, plus the shading under the lip. I think to notice that the upper lip should be a little thicker towards the teeth, and as Anita already commented, the shading should be more pronounced under it.

3. Corner of the mout, OUR left side. Try to bring this more up, making her smile a bit more.

4. Could you please re-measure if the cheek is that wide? I think that you should bring the cheek a bit more in by widening the shadow between cheek and hair.

5 & 6 I think, once you get to the hair, that the hairline should come a bit more in on both sides of her forehead.

Just tiny tweaks.

03-10-2006, 07:38 AM
Lovely portrait Les, its coming on beautifully.

Great start on this Brenda! I think you could revisit the eyes and angle of the brows again. The pupils seem rather large and a catchlight is required to make them come alive, as well as some variance in tone in the iris itself. The angle of the eyebrows needs to be rechecked also. I think its steeper especially the left one (our left).

I've made a start on the portrait of my daughter, just a little last night and this morning. Its on Bristol Vellum 9 x 12 and I'm using mechanical pencils - 2b and hb with a touch of a carbon pencil for the pupil


and a closer view...the images were taken with a digital camera in poor light. I'll have better this weekend.


03-10-2006, 10:13 AM
Thank you Anita. Yes, I agree, the hat needs to be a little bit darker, as the hair also needs to be darker. I got too tired last night to work on it. But I am back today. Not as much energy, but feeling good enough to work on it. Yeah!
Everyone is coming along. Hi Les, Brenda Robin, Jeanette. Glad that you all are here. Work is looking good.

Brenda - take a look at your lips (the lips on your girl actually lol). They look to be a little too pointed on the ends IMHO.

03-10-2006, 01:16 PM
Here is the final: I hope you can read the words I put at the bottom. I will mail this today.


Robin Neudorfer
03-10-2006, 01:41 PM
What a lovely gift Midge. I am sure they all will love it. All the fluff really frames her sweet face.
I am impressed with all of your portraits.
Jeanette- This is looking really great. The pose makes her appear to be quite self assured. I have wanted to take more photos of my daughter to use at a later date, but she has had a cold. Makes for a rather red nose... I will wait, I have time. Back to Josh...

Mary Woodul
03-10-2006, 01:46 PM
Les, your portrait is looking fabulous. Enjoy the wedding!!!

Brenda, she is looking very pretty.

Jeanette, your capturing the likeness and I like the BG you are working on.

Midge, that is a darling little girl and you gave such a sweet look.

I hope to work on my portrait this afternoon. I have had things in the way.:(

03-10-2006, 01:52 PM
Mary, looking forward to seeing your portrait.
Les, enjoy the wedding. It sounds like you have your hands full.
Brenda, looking good.
Jeanette, your doing it again.

03-10-2006, 03:04 PM
Hi gang. I'm a little late in arriving here, but I thought I would get going on tis. I'm posting my ref and a start and my line drawing. The line drawing you see here is a result of a terrible scan. This drawing is 11 x !4 and the scanner half that soI had to paste. For some reason the two haves are of a different tone and i had to adjust which didn't work too well.

The ref is from morguefile.com and is a young girl from an area of the world that I can't determine, but I think from India or that area. MaybeEgypt though. The photographer hasn't replied to my PM yet and there was no information on the photo except to say her name is Fatima and the photo was free to be used in anyway one wanted.

The image is on Mat board, 11 x 14 and I'm using a 0.5 mechanical, 2b pencil.

I don't know that I have a definition of Realism that is my own, except to say that to me it a realistic image looks alive. Not stilted and stiff like some of the figures of the old masters nor is it some stylized representation of life like say the unrealistic figures common to ancient greek ideals of form. Also I would say that I do not think realism is an exact copy of a photo which in it's self is not realistic due to the effects of the aperture setting, that is, an area of sharpness surrounded by increasingly out of focus areas.

Anyway here is the start of my portrait. my line drawing is just a meager map of the image that I will define more as I progress.

All advice is really welcome.




Mary Woodul
03-10-2006, 03:22 PM
Chuck, nice to see you here, we have missed you. You have a lovely reference and what I can see is that you just have to lower the upper eyelid in the middle a bit and narrow the lower eyelid right after the tear duct.
My 2 cents, but I'm not the teacher or subbie so I will let them C&C. I just wanted to say Hi! to you.:)

Robin Neudorfer
03-10-2006, 03:23 PM
Chuck - glad to see you back. Isn't she gorgeous, great choice. I think this will be fun for you, or so I hope it will be. My only suggestion, and one that I have to continually remind myself, is that each area on the face is made up of 3D shapes. They all have to be drawn with perspective, light and shadow, and dimension in mind. It has to be drawn 3D to make the viewer believe it is something other than flat. Take a moment to study her right eye.

Anita Murphy
03-10-2006, 05:48 PM
Sorry to miss so much today - been finalising my tax stuff so I can get paid for the work I have been doing for the last 5 months unpaid!!! Beers are on me when I get the cheque!

Brenda - Hi!!! :wave: I'm going to start at the top and work my way down OK?

The head is at an angle not quite upright.
Look at the shape of the eyebrows - they are almost straight along the top just dipping down at the sides, the shaping is very much more on the under side.
You need to go back and measure the distances for the eyes. Your eyes at the moment are too large in comparison to the ref, and there is more face either side of the eyes than you have.
The nose is a little wider on the right of the face.
Looking carefully at the lines from the nose to the mouth the one on the left (our) is more rounded.
Check the shape of the mouth carefully. On the left side it doesn't have that little curl up on the lips. The bottom lip is also a little wider - both lips are almost the same depth.
The chin is little long - she has a lovely round face (boy this girl is lovely!) and the distance between chin and mouth is a little long.
Check very carefully the shape of the head too - The shaping of the hair is off.
Sort out the proportions I've listed here and then we will deal with the shading.

Anita Murphy
03-10-2006, 05:52 PM
Jeanette - could you post the ref along with the portrait please!!! :D

Midge - well done! Its so great to see you progressing so much! :D

Anita Murphy
03-10-2006, 05:57 PM
Hi Chuck - good to see you here!
Check your line drawing - The right side of the nose is out, you've made it longer than it is on the right side from the tip to the cheek (does that make sense???)
Nice start to the eye - its a little deep - her eyes are just a little narrower top to bottom.
Check the positioning of the iris too, its slightly to the left of center and in the ref it is much more central. Don't make the line of eyelashes there too dark - if possible lift out a little of the graphite you have put down. Very nice catchlights.
Check the distance between the eyes too, and the chin is a teeny bit pointed.
I haven't read what other people have pointed out so please forgive me if I am repeating what other people have already said.

03-10-2006, 06:59 PM
Guys, I apologise for being so lazy, but I'm in the midst of an antibiotic therapy (helicobacter pylori eradication for thos of you who know) and I'm having tummy aches, a permanent bitter taste in my mouth and therefore I'm cranky and not myself. Therapy should be over in 4 more days and I can hope!

Robin Neudorfer
03-10-2006, 07:03 PM
Reinhard - No need to apologize. My daughter was just on a new antibiotic for her ear and it made her feel lousy. Take it easy, and feel better. My suggestion is to read that book that you have put aside, or rent a few good movies, and take your mind off of being cranky. Hope to hear how you are feeling next week.

Anita Murphy
03-10-2006, 07:06 PM
Reinhard - get better soon!!!

03-10-2006, 08:36 PM
Hi Anita and all,
Thanks for hosting Class 34.
I would like to participate if I may.
I've chosen my portrait, and have worked with tonals in Adobe Photoshop. Please let me know if it is suitable.
For me realism.. is to extract the essence, and personality of the person on paper or canvas.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2006/68155-IMG_0002.psd.jpg

03-10-2006, 08:36 PM
Thanks Robin. She is my youngest daughter and is always known as the 'older sister' as she has the ability to rise above and survive in this world.

Thank you Mary. I'll have time to do a little more tonight and this weekend.

Here is the last update and the reference picture Anita.

Get well soon Reinhard Lots of water to flush it out of you system. :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2006/67422-Briony1small_greyscale.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2006/67422-briony_update_1.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Mar-2006/67422-briony_update_1_close.JPG

Robin Neudorfer
03-10-2006, 08:59 PM
How did you light this Jeanette? Beautiful...my daughter is only 14, so it can't be as sophisticated, but I do like the lighting. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Anita Murphy
03-10-2006, 09:10 PM
Chloe - you are very welcome to join in. I like your definition of realism. This is a nice reference - the only thing that worries me is the highlight dead center of the pupils but we can play with that when you start drawing.

Jeanette - this is a lovely start. I don't know where you are up to with the eye so I wont say anything about tonal values. Her nose is a little off - the tip looks like it is slightly right (our) of center, just a matter of changing the shadows there. She is lovely!

Robin Neudorfer
03-10-2006, 09:14 PM
Hi Chloe - didn't mean to pass you by. My daughter and I exchange this hand symbol daily. Great photo. This one will be fun to watch.

03-10-2006, 09:47 PM
Robin, I had nothing to do with lighting choice on this. It was done by a professional photographer when she and her boyfriend were having some photos done for a dance competition. Its not as dramatic as I'd like, but has potential. There are a variety of poses that I could have chosen, but this 'snooty' one make me smile as its so unlike her to be regal. :) But I thought I would try to give the girl some sophistication at the ripe old age of 27! (how did she ever get that old??)

Anita, thanks. I hate the nose in thiis iimage. Its very difficult to capture well. I'll look at your suggestion on that side. Yes I'm not too far into it yet so tones are developing. As well this photo isn't good. I'll try a scan tomorrow and see how that looks.

Hi Chaz! Your drawing is great,, can't wait to see the next update.

Chloe, a very interesting reference. This will be a delight.

03-10-2006, 10:21 PM
Tks all .. This is my friend Sandra. She is deaf, and this symbol means I Love You;-)
Yes, I see what you mean Anita.. about the eyelight on the pupil. Tks.

Robin Neudorfer
03-10-2006, 10:27 PM
Yes it does! My daughter is learning sign. She has had an interest in it for sometime now, and is teaching herself. When she goes to HS they accept it as a language. What a wonderful gift for Sandra, Chloe, that you have chosen her for your portrait.

03-10-2006, 10:36 PM
Tks. Robin. :wave:
Sandra and I have known each other for many years. She taught me the basic sign language, and I know a few words. Yes, if I am successful with the portrait I will give it to her as a gift;-))
Great for your daughter!

Anita Murphy
03-10-2006, 11:00 PM
That is SO cool Chloe!!! I love symbolism in art. It's like a delicious hidden secret!

03-11-2006, 08:39 AM
Jeanette, I love what you did! One little observation though. The curve of the upper eyelid OUR left eye appears on my screen a bit less smoothly curved vs the reference. Can you check?

03-11-2006, 09:13 AM
To all. I don't know if this had been posted in any of the classes before (there is just too much to go through), so I wanted to add this little "trick".

When checking reference vs drawing, arrange original and drawing so that you can see them without moving your head (best if they are on the same plane), step back / sit back, and then look rapidly from original to drawing checking individual parts (eyes, mouth, or whatever just doesn't 'feel' right). You will notice, if things are perfect, both images will remain "quiet/still", if there are differences, the images will "jump" telling you that something is not quite right. The fascinating point is, this works even if the images are of different sizes and it picks up even the most minute little changes which are beyound measuring. I am experiencing this right now again with my Thomas WIP where all measurement were "correct" and still things did not feel right.

Obviously our eyes are capable of seeing shapes very quickly and compare immediately. Try it and it would be great if you could let me know if this works for you as well.

Anita Murphy
03-11-2006, 09:31 AM
I do this Reinhard too on the computer - I work from the computer monitor (lousy printer). I photograph my work often (blessings of digital photography!) and then I have the images in windows next to each other and then can see them at the same time.

03-11-2006, 09:43 AM
Anita, so this trick is common knowledge, better still. I just wanted to not keep it for me only.

As for doing it on the computer, this has one drawback though. One can't make changes immediately and continue comparing until things don't "jump around" any longer. Even with a lousy printer I'd give it a try.

Anita Murphy
03-11-2006, 10:14 AM
I guess your method is pretty much like sight sizing used in life drawing, Reinhard.

03-11-2006, 10:18 AM
Anita, that sounds so logical. I never would have thought of it. I never drew from life so far. So it's really old news.

Anita Murphy
03-11-2006, 10:22 AM
Reinhard - drawing from life is so good for your drawing skills - it really can't be stressed enough. Its very good training and then you don't get the deficiencies of photography affecting your work. I am trying to do some life drawing every day.

03-11-2006, 11:12 AM
I have worked more last night and this morning laying down the initial base and will now start creating tone - I hope. Its so light and the shadows so weak I don't want to overdo it and make it glooomy or muddy.




03-11-2006, 11:14 AM
Jeanette, really looking good. You have done a lot of work on this. Will be watching.

Anita Murphy
03-11-2006, 11:20 AM
Jeanette - I think the forehead is not the right shape - it should be more rounded. Its making her face look much longer and narrower.

03-11-2006, 11:25 AM
Reinhard - drawing from life is so good for your drawing skills - it really can't be stressed enough. Its very good training and then you don't get the deficiencies of photography affecting your work. I am trying to do some life drawing every day.

Are you referring to portrait drawing or just anything Anita?
I carry a drawing pad, and my digital camara
with me wherever I go. Since I bought a digital camara, I went 'snapped' crazy:lol:
Drawing from life does make a difference in the feeling for the subject/object.

Anita Murphy
03-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Anything Chloe.

03-11-2006, 11:31 AM
Thanks Midge :) What one are you working on next?

You're right Anita, it is too long. I set the ref and the drawing on the mantlepiece and stepped back to look and it didn't seem right.

Thanks, I'll fix that, otherwise she's in danger of becoming a conehead! :)

03-11-2006, 12:01 PM
Finally posting my transfered line drawing-not much else done:o
Better late than never though.:D
Working on cresent board again-antique white.
I'll post the ref with the next stage as there is not much here.
Been away from the thread so I need to go see everyone's work-did see your beautiful daughter though Jeanette!

03-11-2006, 12:02 PM
I have been asked to show some work in a gallery, so am thinking about doing some pastel pieces to show. I have a number of CP pieces, but need something in mixed or pastel. Thanks for asking Jeanette.

By the way, the little girl, Brenna, is doing much better. Thanks for all the prayers and kind thoughts on her behalf.

Anita Murphy
03-11-2006, 12:04 PM
Midge - I hope you will show us what you show in the gallery! Will you have a link?

Judi - this is a great start - can we have the ref pleeeeeeasssseee!!!

03-11-2006, 12:12 PM
OK Teach:D

03-11-2006, 12:26 PM
Hi, I did a freehand drawing from the reference photo I submitted. It came out pretty bad. I did it again with a grid with much better results. Can I post the one done with the grid or is that a no-no? I've only been drawing two months and haven't developed much freehand skill.- Yosh

Anita Murphy
03-11-2006, 01:06 PM
absolutely Yosh! Gridding is fine!

03-11-2006, 03:54 PM
Oooh, how exciting Midge! A gallery!! Yes, do show us what you'll be submitting. :)

Great start Judi. This one will be lovely.

03-11-2006, 04:23 PM
Jeanette, off to a good start, but please check the eyes. I think to see that they are too far aparat. On my screen all measurements are identical between reference and drawing, so I could measure.

The distance between the two inner corners of the eyes don't feel right and measure a bit off as well. This corresponds as well to the placement of the two pupils; a bit too far apaprt IMHO.

Width of the eyes themselves. It seems on my screen that they are not wide (width) enough.

Could you please re-measure?

03-11-2006, 04:23 PM
Judi, from the scan it appears to be a "challenging" paper. It will be fascinating to see how this portrait will develop.

03-11-2006, 04:24 PM
Midge, congratulations from me as well. This is the recognition you deserve! Waiting to see photos of this.

03-11-2006, 04:29 PM
Thanks everyone. I have a thread on CP forum that shows what I was thinking of submitting. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I will have them all rematted and framed before I take them. I understand that he will select what he wants to hang. I am so excited. I feel like a kid at Christmas.

03-11-2006, 08:26 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: CONGRATULATIONS MIDGE !!!! Great going and good luck with the gallery!!!
I looked at the portrait I had started and the comments and decided it would be easier just to re-draw her so here is the new version. I am happier with this one.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2006/67372-67372-Eva.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/11-Mar-2006/67372-eva1.jpg

03-11-2006, 08:30 PM
Thanks Reinhard. The eye on the right (viewer's right) was bothering me. It seemed to high. I think that was the problem. I'm correcting it now and will probably post it tomorrow.

03-12-2006, 06:32 AM
Here is the finished drawing of my wife. First I did a freehand one and it didn't come out so good so I did it again with a grid. The gridded one came out pretty decent. It's A3 size.

Anita Murphy
03-12-2006, 09:08 AM
Yosh -you've done a great job with this. Are you stopping here or are you open to some critiqing?

03-12-2006, 09:17 AM
present - thanks for the offer. I was planning to stop here, but would really like some critiquing. I know there are a few problems, but can't tell specifically what they are. Thanks, - Yosh

Yosh -you've done a great job with this. Are you stopping here or are you open to some critiqing?

03-12-2006, 10:08 AM
I did some tweaking last night..made her mouth smaller, face more rounded. Still can't get the tilt. Funny I usually draw everything at an angle and now that I want to I can't!!

03-12-2006, 10:29 AM
LOL. You still have the tilt. It is just in the opposite direction. But it still looks good. On my screen I can't see the highlight in her eyes, nor her earring. But I have dial up so that could be the problem.

Anita Murphy
03-12-2006, 10:30 AM
Yosh - its more a matter of tonal values than anything. Look at the depth of shadows in the eye sockets above the eye. Also the contours of her cheeks. The distance between the mouth and chin does look a little short, making her face more rounded looking than it is. The left (our) cheek is a little too rounded. The iris of the right (our) eye is too far towards the centre of the eye and makes her look a little cross-eyed. Don't be scared to push the dark values in her hair and at the sides of her face - darks are what really make a picture come to life. You will be suprised how little difference in the values does that. The likeness is there - it just needs tweaking.

Anita Murphy
03-12-2006, 10:34 AM
Brenda - could you upload the image again at the maximum size allowed (500 x600) so I can see it better?

03-12-2006, 11:00 AM
I've lowered the hairline or the forehead :) and adjusted the viewer's right eye. The nose still needs a little adjustment as I look at the scanned version, it needs to go to the left a little.

Here is the latest update. The first image is scanned, the others are digital photos.





03-12-2006, 11:13 AM
Looking at this on screen, I think I still have to lower the hairline somewhat. Funny how seeing it in front of me gives me more insight, I guess I forget to stand back and look sometimes.

03-12-2006, 11:19 AM
Is this better Anita?

Mary Woodul
03-12-2006, 11:44 AM
Wow you all are doing a good job. I haven't been able to work but today I will.

Midge congratualtions on your show. I've got to go see those at CP.

Judi, I'm getting ready for that masterpiece!

Yosh, good work!

Brenda, I see the likeness now in your portrait.

Jeanette, I just caught something, I think. There seems to be a difference in the position of the pupil in her left eye. Your work is stunning.

Anita Murphy
03-12-2006, 12:06 PM
Jeanette - check the distance between the left (our) eye and the eyebrow - I think its too high. Also the distance between mouth and chin - you have made it more pointed and her chin is round.

Brenda - thank you! The likeness is definitely there - check the size of the eyes and positioning - if you reduce a TINY amount from the inner corner of the eye, and I mean tiny - you will correct both problems. You have the nose leaning slightly to the left of her face - it needs to be brought back into the centre again. If you look at the right (our) side of her chin you will see its not quite straight up to her ear - there is a slight dip. You're doing great!

03-12-2006, 12:22 PM
Jeanette - really looking good.

03-12-2006, 12:58 PM
Just spent sometime looking through each page and work. I woke up today feeling heavy, I have a bad cold. I want to join the class soon. But I need the reference, which my subject hasnt sent me yet. :rolleyes:

I was away from internet from a month and still havent finished my portrait from the male class.

Everybody is going well around here. Thanks for writing up the class Anita.

See you all soon again. :)

Anita Murphy
03-12-2006, 01:05 PM
:D Rose!!!

03-12-2006, 01:15 PM
This where I am at as of last night. I can see some corrections that have to be made. The eye on our left is off. The pupil is not shaped correctly and the eye and shape and size is not right I think. also I need to blend a bit better, although the blending on the RLI is better than itn appears in the digital photo. Also i might have to darken the whole image a bit to better the contrast, but it/s getting there from what I can see.

Thanks for all the previous suggestions and notes



Robin Neudorfer
03-12-2006, 01:20 PM
Congratulations Midge. You must be very proud.

Yosh, I am glad that you brought your portrait into the class. It is a lovely drawing. I am distracted by the background, perhaps this would be eliminated by toning down the strokes.

Brenda, Very nice, you have captured the sweetness. I am afraid it would have to be redrawn to capture the tilt in the other direction, however I am not bothered by this. The one thing my eyes are drawn to is the area around the chin and mouth. Is this area able to be smoothed out tonally, or is the paper fighting you on this?

Jeanette, I still love this pose. I know you are receiving loads of help. I was just wondering about the angle of the nose. It appears to be pushed at the tip too far to our right. I would check out the values around the tip and it just may be the shadowing needs to be moved ever so slightly. Anita?

Anita Murphy
03-12-2006, 01:44 PM
I think I mentioned the nose before Robin, Jeanette said she was having problems with it.

03-12-2006, 01:52 PM
I widened the eyes, redid the nose a bit and reshaped the chin a tweak. How's now teach?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2006/67372-eva3.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Mar-2006/67372-67372-Eva.jpg

Robin Neudorfer
03-12-2006, 01:55 PM
One can't take a day off or you miss half of the conversations. I obviously lack skiming skills.
Sorry, Jeanette. You know how much I love this one.

03-12-2006, 02:21 PM
Thanks. I can see the highlights and the earring. You did good, or I have a better connection. Can you look at the mouth again? There is something.....

03-12-2006, 02:52 PM
Chuck, pretty good so far. :clap:

2 things. First. Pupils sit abso;ute;y centered in the middle of the iris. When you adjust them, just make sure that the distance of the pupil from the oute curve of the iris is always identical on all sides. Except naturally where the iris is under the eyelids. So just concentrate on the areas where you can see the outer iris rim, the rest will follow automatically.

When you darken the drawing, please make sure that you only darken the areas that will go dark and don't darken the complete drawing. The balance between light and darks makes for 3D.

03-12-2006, 02:54 PM
Brenda, your draing has improved considerably since the first post. What gets me now a little bit is OUR right cheek. I think to see that in the reference extends a bit further to the outside from the height of the cheekbone vs. what I can make out in the drawing. Can you check that for me please?

The jawline on OUR left side might improve if you brought it in a bit earlier resulting in a more visible chin.

Please dab off a bit of the very sharp shading lines on both sides of the mouth. Although these shaings are there, they appear too prominently.

03-12-2006, 03:03 PM
Jeanette, it is a pleasure to see your drawing evolve, but please take a look at our right eye. The curve of the upper eyelid is smoother than in the drawing. I think to detect a distinct peak in the rendering that I can't see in the original.

The lower eyelid of our left eye from the outside comes in the drawing down a bit too sharply.

Anita Murphy
03-12-2006, 03:11 PM
Brenda - getting better and better - have a look at the right (our) side of her chin. Can you see there is a slightly deeper tonal value there that you are missing?

Anita Murphy
03-12-2006, 03:12 PM
Chuck - could you post the reference image next to the drawing please. It makes it a lot easier than to have to hunt back through posts to find it.