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ketah777
02-16-2002, 01:37 PM
I am looking into buying this software, but I can't decide which version to buy. I was looking at Photoshop Elements and Photoshop 6.0. 6.0 is way out of my price range, so I am wondering if anyone here uses Elements. I would mainly be using it to edit photo references for printing. Does anyone here use either of these versions? Which one do you recommend? What kinds of things can you do with 6.0 that you can't do in Elements?

Thanks for your help!

KanuK
02-16-2002, 02:59 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but Elements is a plug-in for PhotoShop. I use PhotoShop 5.5 and I would never use anything else. It's industry standard. Sure, there are other things that can do some of the stuff and others that can do tohers better but overall PhotoShop is the program to have/use, IMHO. You can always try to buy an older version from someone...

ketah777
02-16-2002, 06:31 PM
Kanuk, I didn't realize that Elements was an add-in to Photoshop. I'm so glad you told me or I would have bought the wrong thing. If I buy a copy of Photoshop, should I add Elements?

SuzyQ
02-16-2002, 06:49 PM
Elements is a program in and of itself. It is designed to be an affordable alternative for the general consumer. For complete details check out the adobe web site.
http://www.adobe.com
There is a free trial version of elements on this site.

KanuK
02-16-2002, 07:52 PM
My apologies... I stand corrected. I have no experience with elements but would still be one to say that PhotoShop, is the way to go. I always laugh at "Consumer" variations of applications. They tend to be dumbed down and you end up wanting to buy the real thing anyways. I would, in all honesty, save to buy the full version of PhotoShop and be done with it. Just my $0.02!

herr bean
02-17-2002, 01:06 AM
Definitely go for the full version. If you get into it at all you will more than likely be terribly dissapointed with elements. I had a little experience with photoshop so I was excited when I found out that my printer came with photodeluxe, within the first few minutes I was disspapointed with its capabilities. Save up the money and get photoshop. If you want to save a little you could get either 5.0 or 5.5 and still have most of the functionality of the 6.0. And if you have a pc than 5 or 5.5 will actually run a bit faster than 6.

CathyD
02-18-2002, 04:52 PM
At the first of the year I purchased a new Sony Vaio computer and it came loaded with the photoshop elements. I had used photoshop deluxe a little but that was before I had a scanner and digital camera, so not enough to really know anything about it. I am just beginning to learn how to use photoshop elements and I am sure what KanuK said about it being dumbed down is true. But since it's already on my computer - I don't have to buy it, and I don't know anything anyways.... it's a good place to start! Don'cha think?
:p
Cathy

ketah777
02-18-2002, 06:51 PM
Thanks everyone for your help! I think I'll download the 30 day trial version of each from adobe.com and try them both out. I found some copies of Photoshop 6.0, 5.5 & 5.0 on e-bay, so if I decide I would rather have one of those instead of Elements, at least I can get it a little cheaper.

dk_art
02-18-2002, 08:01 PM
ARG ... computer's! .... my browser had an error and I lost all this that I typed .... sigh, here goes again!

I just thought I'd suggest some alternatives to Elements and Photoshop in case you'd care to compare and find the one which suited your needs abnd which you were most comfortable with.

Why not try out Jasc's Paint Shop Pro ( http://www.jasc.com/download_4.asp? ), Micrografx's Picture Publisher ( http://www.micrografx.com/ ... now part of Corel ), and Ulead's PhotoImpact ( http://www.ulead.com/pi/runme.htm ... this is my favourite and I prefer it over my usage of Photoshop as well. )

I'd suggest trying out these in addition to Elements and Photoshop from Adobe. The three above have more features that Elements and many people even prefer them to Photoshop. Likewise many people prefer Photoshop to these as everybody has their preferred program.

If you are going to be concerned with CMYK colour for certain types of printing, Photoshop or Picture Publisher handle CMYK so they would be probably your best bets.

But as it sounds like you haven't tried Photoshop or elements yet and are looking for a imaging program, I'd suggest thinking about one of the others as an alternative (especially PhotoImpact which I like the best for it's program design and features) .

Whatever you choose I hope it's based on your needs and discoveries using the demos and not just what people tell you is the best or industry standard.

TPS
02-18-2002, 10:24 PM
FYI Paint Shop Pro also does CMYK

KanuK
02-18-2002, 11:26 PM
Yes, all of the programs that have been mentioned are fine... for beginners. If you are seriously interested in doing serious image work, then PhotoShop is the way to go. If you're looking to tinker a bit to get you feet wet, then of course, try the others out.

ketah777
02-18-2002, 11:54 PM
I hope I don't sound too ignorant, but what does CMYK mean? I've heard that mentioned in other posts as well as something like RGB or something like that. Can you tell me what these mean?

Thanks! :o

dk_art
02-19-2002, 02:08 AM
Well , I hate to disagree but, well, I disagree ... Photoshop is fine but it's not the only alternative (unless you work in a graphics business and it's your only choice) and that was my point in bringing attention to these apps which contrary to some people's opinions are not weak in power.

Due to the fact that I had said I used certain software, I find labelling these programs as only fit for tinkerers and beginners a bit insulting. I don't mean to be rude but its just that I've put a lot of time into making imagery with software which I find I like the best (XaraX, Painter, PhotoImpact) and my choice to use these was based on my experience with the programs including Photoshop and I feel they have more than enough power and functionality to allow my creativity to be expressed in a digital fashion. I don't consider myself a tinkerer in anything I do.

My intention was to provide information about possible alternatives which may fulfill the person's needs and also be far less costly.

CathyD
02-19-2002, 02:52 AM
Dk, I down loaded the photoimpact software and found it very easy to use. Thanks for recommending it!
Cathy

KanuK
02-19-2002, 07:33 PM
My apologies... indeed I do work in the graphics realm and PhotoShop is the industry standard. On top of that I am on the Mac and many apps that are available on the PC are not on the Mac so we tend to stay with what we know... My sincerest apologies if I offended anyone...

dhenton
02-19-2002, 07:43 PM
http://www.gimp.org

All the power of photoshop with none of the cost $0

dk_art
02-19-2002, 10:50 PM
No problem Kanuk :) ... no hard feelings


I tried "The Gimp" before ... I don't think the windows version was as up to date as the others. Maybe I'll download it again just for something new to try again as it's been awhile :) ... and such a cute dog icon too ... who could resist the gimp :D

dk_art
02-20-2002, 03:17 PM
Actually after trying the gimp again, I know what I didnt like about it the first time. There's a bunch of floating windows which is something I tend to dislike. I like programs which have a changing options bar (PhotoImpact, XaraX, Corel Draw type interface ... PhotoShop 6 has one of these too).

Also the Gimp doesn't seem to like my wacom tablet. I used the windows version which seems to be less developed then the other versions of the gimp . Anyway, I'm sure the features are powerful but it's just not my preference.

herr bean
02-22-2002, 01:50 AM
I have to agree with Kanuk on this one. There really is no substitute for Photoshop. Paint Shop Pro is ok, but I dind't find its interface as intuitive as Photoshop's. Maybe if I had tried it before Photoshop I wouldn't have that problem. On the other hand it does give you 85% of the performance of Photoshop for a whole lot less money. Since there is a free trial it can't hurt to try it. And it certainly does beat The Gimp.

I'm downloading Photo Impact right now to give it a try. So I'll go ahead and post what I think about it in a couple days.

philwms
02-22-2002, 03:41 PM
Fully agree that Photoshop is the program to go with... the full version... and that looking for an older version on eBay might be a good way to get it cheap and then upgrade... Make sure, if its an older version, that it can be registered. i.e. it should be unused and in the box.

Lisa44
02-23-2002, 06:27 PM
Hi all,
Just visited for the first time and thought I would poke my nose in on this one.
A couple of days ago I downloaded 'Gimp' and I think it's really good considering it's free, although I don't think it has a CMYK mode. I haven't played with it enough to give it a proper rating yet and it takes a little bit of getting used to, but I really like it and it's got loads of cool filters and effects.
I managed to get hold of Photoshop 4 about 2 months ago as well and I'm just starting to get to grips it all now. It's a dream after using Coral Photohouse 2 for so long!
Check out the Gimp site anyway before you part with any money.
Best wishes,
Lisa.:cat:

www.gimp.org

Dave Carter
02-23-2002, 07:49 PM
I'm still using Photoshop 4 with the .01 upgrade. Sells cheap on ebay. Great place to start for a beginer. I've been banging away at this version for two years and still have not mastered all the ins and outs so for me the $600 retail ($450-500 on ebay) is not justified unless I learn a lot more or win the lottery! I can upgrade this to Photoshop 6 for less than$200.

elvenwind
03-06-2002, 09:55 AM
Actually, photoshop comes rather cheap on Ebay at times...but beware, often people try and sell you a burned copy for the same prices, but will use a picture of the real one in the advertisement. You can also purchase an educational version, as long as you dont plan to use it to create logos for companies, ect...or atleast not get caught doing so.
My two cents is I adore Photoshop. I recently got corel painter classic with my wacom tablet, and i really dont like it much, even with all the extras of realy paint/ink types. You cant have layers, least not that I have found, and to me, thats a downside. I dont know if Corel(Now Procreate) painter 7 has the layers option now, but if it doesnt, I reccommed just facing it out and buying the real deal of Photoshop.

dk_art
03-06-2002, 01:54 PM
Photoshop and Painter really are two totally different programs suited for different things (painter's rather focussed on natural media and lacks in other areas and is hardly meant for anything else)

Painter classic is a watered down version of an older painter version which didn't have layers. Painter 6 has layers and so does 7.

Anyway I think the original poster was concerned more for photo enhancing so I definately would not suggest Painter as it would be rather a pain in my opinion for this task (hmmm I wonder if painter 7 has a visual preview of jpg compression yet ... painter 6 doesn't ... which I find very archaic) . But Painter can't be beat for natural media.

coyote
03-06-2002, 04:19 PM
I've never been in this forum before. Just stopped in looking for eggs, and it looks like no one has answered ketah777's question, so I will.

CMYK stands for Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black. These are the colors used in 4-color process printing. In general, anything that you print, even on your desktop printer, should be converted to CMYK for truest colors. Monitors and TVs use RGB (Red, Green and Blue), so the default for jpg's that we post to the web is RGB.

BTW, I'm in the graphics business and I've been using Photoshop since version 1. I wouldn't use anything else, but then, I use a Mac.

philwms
03-06-2002, 05:21 PM
coyote... With the current batch of ink jet printers (I'm familiar with Epson), it's really not necessary to convert to CMYK for printing... even for the 6 color CcMmYK archival ink printers. I get excellent results printing directly from an RGB file...

Sending a file to a printer is a bit different, I think... Then files should be in CMYK rather than RGB.

coyote
03-07-2002, 01:10 AM
You're right Phil. It doesn't make a whole lot of difference for desktop printers.

I send a lot of stuff out for commercial printing, so I just make it a general rule of thumb... if it's going on paper it's CMYK, if it's going on the web or Powerpoint it's RGB. BTW, I love the stuff you do in Photoshop, and I've looked at your tutorial...I've never really used it that way, though I do use similar techiniques for some things.

ketah777
03-11-2002, 12:42 PM
Thank you coyote! I was wondering why I never got an answer to that question. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I should be getting my copy of photoshop this week. When I print something, you're saying I should convert it to CMYK before printing, right? I assume you do that in photoshop? I guess I'll figure that out when I have the software.

Thanks again everyone for all the input on photoshop!

philwms
03-11-2002, 04:17 PM
ketah777...

If you are sending something to a printer (a print house for mass printing or for printing in a magazine, etc), then convert to CMYK... but if you are printing directly to an inkjet printer connected to your computer, then keep it RGB.