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Dale_M
07-20-2002, 04:30 PM
Here is a document I wrote to help someone to setup a new torch for the first time. Those considering stepping up to a bigger torch can get a idea what's inviolved... Those already there, feel free to comment...

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Red hoses is for fuel (propane), green hose is for oxygen.

Secure oxygen tank to wall, pillar, post or something so it can not accidentally fall over. Remove safety cap from oxygen bottle (tank). Crack open valve just for a brief moment, just enough to get a brief WHOOSH noise.... This will clean out any dust or dirt in oxygen bottle valve. Place snout of oxygen regulator into valve body and tighten nut, this is a clockwise tightening situation.

Do the same with the fuel regulator on propane tank BUT DO NOT BLOW OFF any gas to clean fittings, this would be a hazard... Threads on propane tank regulator are LEFT-HAND or COUNTER CLOCK wise... This will cause you confusion till you get used to it!

Connect green hose to out put fitting of oxygen regulator. Connect red hose to out put fitting of propane (fuel) regulator. Be sure connections are tight.

Connect red hose to fuel port (fitting)on torch, green hose to oxygen port (fitting) on torch. Be sure connections are tight. You may want to secure hoses to table or bench near torch so it will not get snagged when you move around and drag torch off table.

Back to regulators... Back off the adjustment knobs counter clockwise till you feel no more resistance to the knob being turned, This direction (counter clock wise reduces the setting and by turning knob all the way to left effectively turns off regulator [this backwards to average water faucet - for an example]) CAUTION- turning knobs on regulators extremely clockwise can damage internal parts. But you should never have to turn knobs to that extreme.

At tanks, slowly turn of oxygen valve. Listen for hissing noises, If you have them, fitting for regulator to tank is not tight... If you do not hear anything, spray a little soapy water or windex on regulator to tank fitting to see if you have any leaks (looking for bubbles here)... No bubbles everything is ok... If you have leak, try to tighten nut on regulator some more... There is the possibility of a defective valve on oxygen tank. These tanks are used in many unfriendly (to tank) situations. If you can not get a good seal, you may have to return tank to dealer. They will understand, it does happen.

Do same thing on propane tank!... Open valve check for leaks. Remember threads on fuel tank are backwards... Everything OK?...

At torch, be sure fuel and oxygen valves are closed. Turn oxygen regulator knob (clockwise) till you get about a 5 psi (maybe 10 psi) reading on gauge, check hose connection at regulator and torch for leaks (remember we are looking for bubbles here in soap, windex solution)... Everything ok?.. If not either try to tighten things up, or turn oxygen off and remove connection and inspect them to see if they is a problem. Repeat process till you have situation fixed.

Do the same for the propane.... Turn regulator on to 5psi (maybe 10psi) and check for leaks... OK???..... If not find and fix problem....

Now back off both knobs (counter clockwise) on regulators (oxygen and propane) ... Open fuel knob on torch and let fuel bleed off... You are going to get a bit of free propane in room.... Let room air out.... With torch fuel valve open turn on fuel regulator till you get a 5psi flow, and shut torch off.... You want to be rather quick in this process to keep excess propane from gathering in room....

Do same with Oxygen... Open torch valve, set flow of oxygen to about 10psi and shut off oxygen valve at torch...

You now should to ready to "fire torch"... Open fuel valve first and light torch with spark lighter or match or what every you will be using, adjust flame to desired level, then slowly turn oxygen till you get proper mix....

At this point you can adjust flame to desired level and try it out...

When done shut off (at torch) oxygen first then propane. Some people shut off gas at tanks and let fuel bleed down from hoses and regulators when finished using them. (burn off excess fuel).

Here is a little something to remind you of the proper procedure for lighting and shutting down the torch... It's POOP... Yep POOP...

Propane on, Oxygen on, Oxygen off Propane off.


The fuel pressures and oxygen pressures I stated above are not cast in stone. you will have to experiment to find the "correct" mix for whatever you are doing...

But oxygen pressure should be about double fuel pressure in most cases...

OH... and use proper fitting wrenches on regulator connections, if you round off corners of nuts it will make tank changing in future a miserable chore...

Hope this will get you started...

Just use care as you would when using any flammable gases...

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Dale

Spiderlace
03-28-2003, 10:28 PM
I'm putting my barbecue variety propane tank outside my house, with a fixed regulator set at 10 psi at that point. After plumbing through the wall, I want to attach an adjustable regulator before it reaches my minor torch. Does this make sense to anyone (or maybe everyone but me!?) and does anyone have suggestions for that?

Dale_M
03-28-2003, 10:51 PM
Yes, because it gives you final pressure control at the torch (so to speak)..

Dale

Melinda Melanson
03-28-2003, 11:55 PM
You da Man Dale!! thanks again for this wonderful info. I will be ordering my concentrator and trying to figure out my minor set-up in the next few months. So I have printed out your instructions and I will keep it handy.

May have to email you if I can't figure it out on my own. ;)

See you in chat!

green witchy

Spiderlace
03-29-2003, 11:57 AM
Can someone who has this type of setup give me a little more specifics ....

My small propane tank will be outside, a fixed regulator (not the regulator that comes with the barbecue tank) attached. Then I'm plumbing through the wall with copper piping, I think, then another regulator with quick connects/flashback arrester combo, and then the hoses to the minor burner.

My question: am I talking about the two regulators of the type sold through the typical glass supply people? And once inside, how close to my torch am I to put the second regulator (the adjustable one). I'm also using an O2 concentrator and am not sure at which point I should be branching off to that, between the torch and the adjustable regulator or after the regulator.

I really wish there were a clear and concise diagram somewhere for all of this!

Dale_M
03-29-2003, 12:30 PM
There is no set distance. I would say using basic Siamese (twin) hose (you can separate it) that comes in a 12 foot long minimum length will be sufficient.

You should have regulators and concentrator out of general work area so they are not subjected to heat from torch and glass shards and enamel or frit dust, bit not so far away that it becomes a major trip to go and make a adjustment. But close enough that you can shut thing down real fast in a emergency.

I know, this does not give you a measure able distance but each installation is different, any you have to work out a setup that fits your comfort level.

Dale

SamB
03-29-2003, 12:53 PM
I may not be understanding you correctly, but your O2 concentrator is attached to the torch on a hose separate from the propane hose. Propane is not routed through the concentrator. In a typical hose setup from a welding store you get a red hose and green hose attached to one another. They can be carefully cut apart. The red is for propane and the green for the oxygen. As Dale mentioned, 12 feet away from the torch will work for both the gas regulator and the oxygen concentrator although there is nothing wrong with either the tank of propane or the concentrator being closer to the torch than that. Three or four feet away may be OK as hot glass probably won't spit any farther.

For the propane, you want the pipes and hoses to be higher than the top of the tank. Don't let the hose dip down below the top of the tank - this keeps impurities from collecting there.

Good luck,

Sam

Spiderlace
03-29-2003, 01:05 PM
Yes, even I know that the concentrator is separate from the propane!!!!!

The propane tank will be just on the exterior side of the wall I am working up against. My confusion is mainly about the fittings required for the two separate regulator situations: one being the external fixed 10psi at the tank source, and the other being inside and adjustable. I'm trying to figure out the flashbacks, etc., etc., (whether I need for each regulator), and also the logistics of the adjustable regulator not being attached to the actual tank.

The distance from my tank to my torch will be minimal, since only an exterior wall separates the two. Since I don't want to let the hose drop below the height of the tank, I expect I will need to cut them down, which I guess is no big deal.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy ....

wildfirelauri
03-29-2003, 01:41 PM
Excellent info, Dale. Five star salute to ya!

Dale_M
03-29-2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by ljl56


My confusion is mainly about the fittings required for the two separate regulator situations: one being the external fixed 10psi at the tank source, and the other being inside and adjustable. I'm trying to figure out the flashbacks, etc., etc., (whether I need for each regulator), and also the logistics of the adjustable regulator not being attached to the actual tank.



Only one flashback arrester is needed on propane side, and it needs to be between torch and adjustable regulator, probably at regulator. The one flashback regulator will protect both regulators ( adjustable and fixed) and the propane tank.

Its really not necessary to have arrester on oxy concentrator because there is no large volume of oxygen that is in danger of explosion or contributing to explosion. But IF it makes you feel sale, by all means put one on concentrator , it will not cause any degradation in performance.

As always, check system for leaks, and SAFETY FIRST.


Dale

Plato
03-31-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by ljl56
I'm putting my barbecue variety propane tank outside my house, with a fixed regulator set at 10 psi at that point. After plumbing through the wall, I want to attach an adjustable regulator before it reaches my minor torch. Does this make sense to anyone (or maybe everyone but me!?) and does anyone have suggestions for that?

Best suggestion is to have a licensed(for gas)plumber help you;)

Use brass pipe and fittings to construct a small manifold.Attach to wall or bench within easy reach.
The FIRST thing the gas must pass through is a SHUT OFF VALVE.Than connect manifold to torch with hose.

You must have an inside shut off valve...I can`t stress that enough......Plato

Spiderlace
03-31-2003, 04:02 PM
When you say "first thing gas must go through is shut off valve," are you saying that once inside the house, I first need a shut off valve, then the adjustable regulator, then the flashback arrestor, and then the torch.
I just want to be sure.

Arrow Springs says that the acetylene regulator is best for this purpose, because of the dial range. I know they would know, but I'm just checking that this info is being interpreted correctly by me!

Plato
03-31-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by ljl56
When you say "first thing gas must go through is shut off valve," are you saying that once inside the house, I first need a shut off valve, then the adjustable regulator, then the flashback arrestor, and then the torch.
I just want to be sure.

Arrow Springs says that the acetylene regulator is best for this purpose, because of the dial range. I know they would know, but I'm just checking that this info is being interpreted correctly by me!

Yes to both questions......I`m very glad you`re researching this issue and making sure you understand safe operation.:)

beadzone99
04-01-2003, 09:56 PM
I would like to ask a couple of questions of the very well versed people in this discussion. I have just bought a nortel minor burner and set it all up with the help of my hubby and welder son. But I seem to go threw a lot of oxygen what rate should I be running at currently I am using 20/10 and this seems to really burn up the O2. Is this correct or should I try something else.

Plato
04-01-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by beadzone99
I am using 20/10 and this seems to really burn up the O2. Is this correct or should I try something else.

Glass doesn`t need the high pressures needed for welding.


The Minor will run on 1/2 lb propane.There`s no need to run above 5 propane/10 oxygen.I use that for boro and work much larger than beads.When I work soft glass I usually drop my propane down to 2 or 3 lbs.Some times I drop the oxygen to about 7 lbs,sometimes not.It depends....It might be the kind of glass I`m using or how I feel that day :p

Remember to run you oxygen at least twice the pressure of your propane,but it looks like your welder son already told you that;)

SamB
04-02-2003, 12:11 PM
Propane is stored as a liquid and oxy is stored as a gas. You will go through many tanks of oxygen for every 30 gal. tank of propane.

I agree that a pressure of 10/20 is way too high. Try something in the range of 4 propane and 8 oxy. Then you get a nice bushy flame not too large. Later with more experience you might want to do larger beads and turn the flame up some.

Anyway, start out with less pressure from your tanks.

Sam

sunflowerel
03-27-2008, 02:59 AM
This is all so interesting. I am using a hothead torch at this time, but I intend to get a better torch as soon as I can afford one.

Have a great day

Eleanor

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mewsicmama
04-17-2008, 09:11 PM
Lots of very valuable information here - especially to a newbie like me! Thanks !!!

Shari