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Punky2
02-16-2006, 08:42 PM
I've read that some artists put down the first layer of pastel and then wash over it with alcohol, but I've never heard of anyone using water.

Would the effect be the same if one used water instead of alcohol?

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before.

Terri

jmp
02-16-2006, 08:53 PM
i haven't tried water but I know this same step can be achieved with
WATERcolors so I don't see why not- as long as you are using a paper that won't be damaged by wetness.

dlake
02-16-2006, 09:05 PM
I've tried water and it works. I have put some color scrapes down and water to paint it and it did well and works fine. I've even put down acrylic wash, let dry and then put some pastel color over it and that is cool
diane

Bringer
02-16-2006, 09:06 PM
Hi,

One thing is that alcohol evaporates faster.
And IF I'm not mistaken, some soft pastels are not water soluble.

Best regards,

Josť

PeggyB
02-16-2006, 10:43 PM
Hi, One thing is that alcohol evaporates faster.
And IF I'm not mistaken, some soft pastels are not water soluble.
Best regards, Josť

Well Jose I've yet to meet the soft pastel that won't dissolve in water. Don't know about the hard ones though. I know some Holbeins advertise themselves as being "watersoluable", but well before that I was dissolving Rembrandts, Sennelier, and Schmencke with water. Then I learned about the 50/50 combination of water and alcohol and when ever I've done this method since then that's what I use on all medium and soft pastels. Some papers aren't agreeable to this though (La Carte being one of them). Wallis and Art Spectrum work very well and don't warp. Ersta works, but only if you first tape it securely on all four sides to your support and only if it is about quarter size sheet. One way to help with the warping is to use a hair dryer on it right after appling the liquid - what ever it may be.

Peggy

DrBrad
02-17-2006, 12:09 AM
I have played with this-- and the big alcohol advantage is that it dries much faster-- and non wc papers seem to deal with it better as well. It really deadens the colors but works well as an early layer.

chewie
02-17-2006, 10:34 AM
quite some time ago, someone did an article? a thread? a demo?? about exactly this. anyone remember it?? it was mostly about using alcohol, and i tried it, and never looked back!! its cheap, easy to find, dries very fast, and makes a great underlayer. i use colorfix papers mostly, and it handles this all without any troubles. i love using terra cotta colored paper, but sometimes want the sky not so dark to begin with--easy! get pale colorfix, rub a hard pastel (poly's) on those area's i'd like dark, a bit of alcohol, and i'm ready to work in a few mintues!! i see on my greg b. video he did say he often uses water, too, but on this video, him painting plein air, he used alc. i guess i dont' see why i'd use water and wait for drying instead of this way, ready in a very short time.

Bringer
02-17-2006, 03:50 PM
Hi Peggy,

Thanks for the enlightment.
I was in doubt if certain brands would dissolve in water but would not get homogeneous(sp?) or would have any unexpected reaction.

Regards,

Josť

PeggyB
02-17-2006, 05:29 PM
Hi Peggy, Thanks for the enlightment.
I was in doubt if certain brands would dissolve in water but would not get homogeneous(sp?) or would have any unexpected reaction. Regards,
Josť

Jose, some dissolve better than others, but they will all dissolve - at least the Rembrandt, Art Spectrum, Holbein, Sennelier, Terry Ludwig, Unison Great American, and Schmincke, that I've tried this on will... Don't know why I've never tried pure rubbing alcohol - perhaps the odor?

Peggy

Tom Behnke
02-18-2006, 01:27 AM
Pure rubbing alcohol does work. It was all I had when I experimented with it. Never tried water, because I never had paper that I thought would survive it.

I have yet to do a complete underpainting wash with it, and I am curious what the effect would be. I have to try it sometime.

Paula Ford
02-18-2006, 12:06 PM
Interesting discussion. I always wondered what this was all about. You are all talking about Rubbing Alcohol, right?

Paula

Kitty Wallis
02-18-2006, 01:37 PM
I always use water because I want no deadening of color. It dries in 20 minutes unless I'm outside in cold fog or something.

Alcohol slowly melts the coating of my paper, usually too slow to be noticed before it's dry. However, if you use a lot of alcohol and scrub it around for longer than a few seconds you will notice a gooey feeling as you work with the wet alcohol. The gooeiness disappears when the alcohol dries.

Khadres
02-18-2006, 01:43 PM
Interesting discussion. I always wondered what this was all about. You are all talking about Rubbing Alcohol, right?

Paula

Yep, rubbing alcohol, not your ordinary hooch...ya keep the kind you drink for celebrating your next Best of Show! :D