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Raphael
02-13-2002, 05:43 PM
Dear All,

I love drawing and sketching with a ball point pen. It handles almost as well as a pencil.

However, the ink in ball point pens is dye based, and not permanent.

I drew a small doodle, and then cut the drawing in half. I tapped half to a window, and kept the other half in a drawer. 6 months later, the half tapped to the window had almost vanished!

I want my drawing to last at least a few generations. "And look, this is a self portrait of your great, great grandfather".

Anyway, my question is, does anyone know if there are any pigment (rather than dye) based ball point pens available anywhere in the world? I have done an internet search, and cannot find any.

Thanks muchly.

seejay
02-13-2002, 09:57 PM
Hello Raphael,

Sorry, I can't answer your question.

I saw a few ball-point pen artist web sites the other night, maybe they will have links to such information, or maybe they will answer an email, etc....

By the way, I hope you will post some of your work here.....

Good luck, Chris

sassybird
02-14-2002, 04:52 AM
I was given a set of gel pens for Christmas a few years ago. I haven't tested them like you mentioned testing the ball point pen, but maybe that is something to look into. The gel pens write just like a ball point pen, and you can get them in all colors from black to the brightest colors you can imagine.

NorahT
02-14-2002, 08:56 AM
Most gel pens are acid-free too - just check the packaging :)

artdude
02-14-2002, 11:40 AM
Hi Raphael. Check out the link I provided below. They might be able to help you in your search for archival inks for ballpoint pens. Let us know how you make out and be sure to post some of your ink art when you can.

Ballpoint Pen Site (http://communities.msn.com/ballpointpenart/)

Raphael
02-27-2002, 11:52 PM
Artdude,

I've had a look at that website, but I could find not reference to archival ballpoint pens.

Thanks anyway, and I'll keep looking.

Raphael

NorahT
02-28-2002, 12:58 PM
Try a search engine such as Google and type in "archival ballpoint pens" - you will find all sorts of leads :)

ballpointpenart
09-16-2005, 03:29 AM
The ink industry, International Organization for Standardization, Committee for Graphic Arts Technologies Standards, Central Secretariat in Geneva and other related groups use a DIN or ISO rating system for ballpoint or other inks. Google searches for archive inks produce little returns or factual information.

I''ve been search Internet for five years looking for archival inks an about three weeks ago I finally located some. It took me two weeks, thirty meta-search engines or regular engines to locate the pens or refills on this list my friends. Archival ballpoint pen inks have taken 67 years to surface and is the greatest break-through a ballpoint pen has made within that time period.

ArtDude did provide you with the correct site. I'm the manager of that location and now new colored inks an DIN or ISO pens or refills are on my main page or the message boards. I was surfing the Web looking for new materials and ran across this thread posted on one of my searches. I wanted to thank ArtDude for sending people my way so this list is coming back your way, Sir. If you can't find how to order these pens or refills simply search my main board and you'll see them listed by companies or brands.

I hope you all the best and may everyone have a blessed day.

Jerry Stith

Papermate Stick 2020 Fine Red P27325

DIN standard ink for high standards of performance

Papermate Stick 2020 Fine Grn P27345

DIN standard ink for high standards of performance

Papermate Stick 2020 Med Grn P27645

DIN standard ink for high standards of performance

Papermate 2020 Blue 1.0 tip Stick

DIN standard ink for high standards of performance

Stick Ball Pen Medium Red

forgery-proof paste conforming to ISO 12757-2, line width M

Stick Ball Pen Fine Blue

forgery-proof paste conforming to ISO 12757-2

Stick Ball Pen Medium Black

forgery-proof paste conforming to ISO 12757-2

Stick Ball Pen Fine Black

forgery-proof paste conforming to ISO 12757-2

Stick 2000 Pen Medium Blue

DIN standard ink for high standards of performance

Stick Ball Pen Fine Red

forgery-proof paste conforming to ISO 12757-2

Staedtler Mars Multiple Casings or body designs, 430 Stick Medium,

Line width F, M, indelible ink conforming to ISO 12757-2

Schneider SIMPLY FUNCTIONAL

Giant refill EXPRESS 225 with wear resistant stainless steel tip

Refill EXPRESS 75 with wear resistant stainless steel tip

interchangeable refill, waterproof ink ISO12757.2 A2

Schneider: Express 740 ballpoint refill X20 Giant Refills ISO 12757-2H

Stride Inc Schneider® Express 775 Permanent ink is ISO 12757-2H.

Medium point is 0.6mm. Fine point is 0.4mm.

Stride Inc Schneider® Express 775 Permanent ink is ISO 12757-2H.

07751 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 775 Ballpoint Refills - Fine (BLACK)

07752 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 775 Ballpoint Refills - Fine (RED)

07753 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 775 Ballpoint Refills - Fine (BLUE)

07761 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 775 Ballpoint Refills Medium (BLACK)

07762 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 775 Ballpoint Refills Medium (RED)

07763 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 775 Ballpoint Refills Medium (BLUE)

07764 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 775 Ballpoint Refills Medium (GREEN)

Stride Inc Schneider® Express 785 Permanent ink is ISO 12757-2H.

178601 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 785 Ballpoint Refills - Medium (BLACK)

178603 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 785 Ballpoint Refills - Medium (BLUE)

Stride Inc Schneider® Express 735 Medium point line width is 0.6mm. Fine point line width is 0.4mm. Ink is ISO 12757-2G2 waterproof.

07351 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 735 Ballpoint Refills - Fine (BLACK)

07352 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 735 Ballpoint Refills - Fine (RED)

07353 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 735 Ballpoint Refills - Fine (BLUE)

07361 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 735 Ballpoint Refills - Medium (BLACK)

07362 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 735 Ballpoint Refills - Medium (RED)

07363 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 735 Ballpoint Refills - Medium (BLUE)

07364 - STI - (UPC: ) Schneider Express 735 Ballpoint Refills - Medium (GREEN)

Stdtler Retractable BallPen Tub10 42125S Retractable ballpoint pen

blue forgery-proof paste conf. to ISO 12757-2

ZENO Ball Point Pen

permanent black ink conforming to DIN ISO 12757-2

Solid tip with HAUSER Ceramic Ball writing strokes SF (0.6mm)
writing capacity: 0.9g / 1,000M

Parker Pen

Parker makes archival quality refills conform to the ISO standard ISO12757-2

Pelikan Perfect 237
colours: blue, red black With the permanent ink conforming to DIN ISO 12757-2.
Widths: F = fine (0.8 mm Ø), M = medium (1 mm Ø), B = broad (1.2 mm Ø)
Solid tip of stainless steel, tungsten carbide ball

ballpointpenart
09-16-2005, 03:42 AM
BallPoint Pen lines: :)

1. tips: strongest pen tips in history: largest ink reserve of any pen system

a. extra-fine: I have some drawings completed with the extra-fine tip that went out of production in 1981-82 and came in black or blue. The extra-fine ballpoint pen tip is the sharpest camera ready line in art history.

b. fine: Today, a ballpoint pen's fine tip size produces the sharpest camera ready line in our art world.

c. regular: The regular tip is also called a medium. This tip can produce a half tone plus a solid long flowing line. The line can be dark, long flowing and produce a reflection if really piled on. The medium is good for making dark areas and will certainly saturate a paper with ink.

d. bold: The bold ballpoint pen tip is another history making tip. The bold ballpoint pen tip and ink supply produces a full tone long flowing line as never before. Needless to say its the best ballpoint tip for coloring in dark areas. It also delivers more ink than any other tips therefore the refection is greater.

2. half tone lines: The ballpoint pen is the only pen system in history capable of producing a half tone line with a full tone ink. Lifting up on a pen produces a half tone and pushing down or adding pressure makes a full tone. The half tone almost never reflects or shines as thinker ink does. A half tone line is great for starting a drawing, shaping, forming or polishing up a drawing like now others! The ballpoint pens half tones are the subtlest in drawing or art history.

a. extra-fine, fine: These two tip sizes are the best for polishing a drawing or doing other sensitive areas.

3. bold lines: A ballpoint pen has a tremendous ink supply plus a remarkable long flowing line. A ballpoint produces the quickest long flowing line in art history. That quick or bold long flowing line certainly is best for capturing nature or motion in life. Its much easier for me to draw people or nature in motion with a fast moving tool or instrument.

Doing outdoor drawings or impressionism this instrument works perfect. A bold long flowing line produces life, a refreshing or colorful drawing and some very special other mediums just can’t do. Many artists on the Internet draw from a photo. Sharp or slow moving lines make up those works and certainly don’t deliver what a dark bold line does.

a. bold, regular: The bold and regular (medium) tips are best for doing full tone lines. A bold or regular tip can produce a half tone line yet thinner points work better. These two tips deliver the most ink therefore works best with darkening or filling in areas. They make the best blacks or dark colors than all other pens.

A bold tip delivers a colored full tone line or flow no others pen systems can produce. That wonderful bold flowing line is a historical event. Its a flow never seen before in pen’s four thousand plus years of history. A ballpoint pen sells by the billion because of that nice flowing line.

4. black & white: The ballpoint pen first arrived in black. Blue was the second ink then I think red came along. Black and blue were for writing and red for accounting. I used pencils for five years before a ballpoint. I learned what black and white was all about plus how to draw with a pencil. I however went to a ballpoint pen ink for quicker, cleaner and darker lines. A stacked black ink will shine and most likely out last all colored inks.

5. multi-colored: The ballpoint pen delivers a full or half tone colored line without changing pens or inks. I can stack colors to produce the richest pen & ink drawings in history. A ballpoint puts a darker, richer or more vibrant color on a page than all other pen systems. My luscious colors far exceed a tech or dip pen ink or drawings. Those wonderful colors bring a new life to the pen & ink art movement. They also speck well of the ballpoint pen art movements!

6. mono: (one color) A mono colored ballpoint pen drawing is one color. I did more red drawings than any other ink color. I really loved doing gold ink drawings. Blue and green are two more mono colors used in the past. I need to do a mono colored drawing with each color I have. We’re recording ballpoint pen art history and every new area we can represent will build our art movements historical base.

7. blotches: Most ballpoint pens produce small blotches of ink on the top a pen’s tip when drawing quickly. Fast action with a bold tip will produce that ink build up quickest. When I work quickly or outside blotches simply add color, character and style to my drawings. Pilling on lines and color is the name of that game. Boldness and color is the more important with or without any blotches than details or refinements.

8. reflection: Oil base inks simply produce a reflection, shine, sheen or burn out spot on negatives. Remember oil paintings are the king of mediums and shine like an oil painting. Some ballpoint pen inks dry flat while others shine. This might show up when scanning or using a flash camera. Your light source will determine if there is a going to be a shine.

If the ink reflects a scanner light or flash bulb its call a burn out. Other mediums can warp a paper or reflect a flash bulb or light. Each medium has its advantages or place in history as does the ballpoint.

9. by products: When a drawing is completed prints, books, limited editions, posters, post cards or other items can be produced from such a work. The incomes of each by product is your royalties and that helps increase your originals prices.

This should pretty well explain such matters.

Thank You,

Jerry Stith

I see Dean's new drawing is coming along rather well. He's learning to express himself and seems to be having fun. The new drawing certainly is smooth. I'll be hammering down with some new drawings myself. Cheers!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Sep-2005/7591-MJ.jpg
This beauty was completed in 1981 with and extra-fine Parker pen tip. They stopped producing the extra-fine tips in 1982 I think. I'm most likely the only one on the Web displaying a drawing with that fantastic tip, I love it! Enjoy :wave:

ballpointpenart
09-16-2005, 03:55 AM
If your thick ballpoint pen inks shine simple place the light source to the side. Dirrect lighting or flashs bluds will reflect or produce a burn out on a negative or picture. Half tones don't reflect or shine. If you shot an oil painting the same thing will take place. Placing your thick ink drawings outside will also help reduce a reflection. Trial and error will produce the best results. I've been at this from 1968. I'll suggest 120-140 lb. papers an up to stop warpping or buckling. The thicker the better. Thick rag, watercolor or block papers seem to work best for heavey ink drawings. Textured papers certain are the hardest while hard surfaces are much quicker or easier.

ballpointpenart
09-16-2005, 04:04 AM
If you do real thick ink drawings let your picture sit for a while before adding more levels or layers. Let the ink settle before you pile it on. A strong lamp or bulb will help dry the ink out as will the sun light. Keep half tones out of the light because the sun will fade them. (Non ISO or DIN Inks) Most major museums don't permit flash bulbs nor would they ever put their great painting near dirrect sun light. Water is an enemy of ballpoint pen inks as is dirrect sun light. ISO or DIN inks should also be treated with respect. Safe guard your art treasures and they will take care of you!

ballpointpenart
09-16-2005, 01:05 PM
American Ink Marker forum, this is a site that can answer some of your ink questions that I found along the way.

Jerry

American Ink Maker forum (http://forum.inkmakeronline.com/search.asp) :wave:

ballpointpenart
09-16-2005, 01:28 PM
Andrey Morozow, is a Russian ballpoint pen artist found along the information highway. This guys site is really hard to find to say the least. He has over 100 drawing published at this location.

Many people drawing desire to work from photographs. They seem to think that imitating a camera makes good art. Yes, people can learn, grow or develop working from a photo because I've done it as well. However, most of the artists throughout time worked from life or on location. Trying to make their drawings look like a photo wasn't at all important to them. Photorealism! Many ballpoint pen portrait artists can't or don't seem to be able to draw from life which is certainly a hold back.

Classical Realism was developed via working from life. The art world values art from life much more than imitating a camera. Color is also very important with our art world as are archival inks or art mediums. This guy has many wonderful ink drawings and certainly is a joy looking at.

I do many colors, topics, subjects or styles and each is different from the other. Detail isn't always the most important thing in art. Having a drawing look alive is very important to me. Slaving away at making pictures look like a photo becomes rather boring when thousands of works are completed. Backgrounds, action, color, life or adventure is something refreshing to me as an artist. I also stylize some of my works instead of zeroing in on detail.

Jerry Stith

Andrey Morozow russian ballpoint artist (http://wnoise.h12.ru/gallery2.html) :wave: