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sandokan
02-12-2002, 03:26 AM
I premise I'm not able to paint.
I premise I'm not able to draw.
Perhaps I'm learning something about colors, tones, visual languages in the last month, thanks to all of you in WC and thanks a web-friend here in Italy.
I believe painting is a science, as Leonardo said.
I'm reading "Il trattato della pittura" by Leonardo, and I've understood how he was in right!
Painting is a mix obtained from colors, tones, shape, music, visual experience, intelligence of the artist, memory, technique, equilibrium... what else?
Talent?
Creativity?
SOmebody could say: "Hey, sandokan, what you want?"
Well, nothing, I would only say how much is important for me painting and art.
I'm here to ask, to each one, onesty in criticize the works I'm going to show here, in Wet canvas.
I do not want that some persons wouldn't say the truth for fear offending someone.
For the importance I give to painting, please tell me ALWAYS the truth!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

mame
02-12-2002, 09:13 AM
I for one will honor your wishes regarding honesty. You understand of course that at some sub-conscious level, artists critique others' work based on their own aesthetic of what is "good" (art that looks most like their own).

Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it!

Welcome to WC. I look forward to seeing your work.

sandokan
02-13-2002, 02:38 AM
Thank you, mame!
I'm doing some scansions, in some days I hope to put something here in WC.

I'm sorry, but what does it means:
"You just might get it!"

I'm italian, and I speak english only a bit!!!!
Bye, and thank you very much!

:)

Andrew
02-13-2002, 10:24 AM
I have to disagree. When I paint (or draw, or sculpt, or whatever), I find that my analytical left brain gets horribly in the way. Especially when mixing colors. I tend to overthink my mixing. But when I go fully intuitive the colors flow.

When I make my own materials, definitly more science than creativity. But applying things to a support. Definitly not a science.

Andrew

sandokan
02-14-2002, 05:01 AM
Andrew
you're in right.
Somebody once said: "In painting if you haven't talent, you must study"
I haven't talent, so I study, and for making something good, I have to learn (tecnuiqe, but also theory); in such a way I can repeat a process, and I think it's a science.
Photography, for instance, let me free to work istinctively, because I have to control less things.
I can neglect lents, opening times, diaphragms, I can choose to take a picture or to take lots of picture as far as i'm satisfacted.
I often take picture with 1sec. f/8 and a flash, without take care of nothing else. In painting, for me, it's impossible.
It's impossible to squeeze colors on the pallete without take care of what I want to obtain at the end.
I need a project.
I hope my english would be comprehensible
Bye

;)

mame
02-14-2002, 07:59 AM
It's just a dumb saying - "Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it".

I meant that some emerging/new artists still have pretty thin skins when it comes to criticism of their work. Lots of artists ask, "be honest. Tell me what you really think" Then, when you do, they are crushed, hurt and/or angry and think you are being cruel.

It's hard to get over one's love affair with one's own work. There is such delight at the "creation" process, that sometimes a critique (just one person's opinion) can really put a damper on it unless you are serious about learning and are seriously committed to this wonderful thing called "art".

Some people who will voice an opinion about artwork subscribe to the "pat on the head" nicey-nice kind of critique. I'm not against encouragement, but in my experience, I didn't want pats on the head, I wanted to LEARN - and sometimes it was painful. What I gained from that approach is that I am able to look at my own work "critically", to be ruthless in striving for excellence.

Man, didn't mean to go on and on. Just ignore me.

Andrew
02-14-2002, 10:41 AM
I don't think of it as talent vs. study. Sure artistic ability comes easier to some than others. But the true talent isn't the art, it is the ability to relate to it. The ability to learn it. Just you and photography. When I use a camera, I have to sit and think everytime I set up a picture. I constantly have to look back at the manual. If I had kept it up (assuming my camera still worked), eventually I would have learned. For me, it was Physical Chemistry. I barely had to touch the textbook. It was intuitive to me. I thought I would get stoned by my classmates who spent hours a night pouring over numbers and tables.

We are all individuals and all learn at different paces. Somethings click, other things take a bit longer.

Andrew

Fmalo
02-14-2002, 01:50 PM
Sandokan,

A little while ago, I read an old book by Irving Stone - 'The Agony & the Ecstasy' about Michaelangelo Buonarrotti. He competed with Leonardo da Vinci and both have shown us some of the world's greatest art. You may wish to read this book.

If you haven't taken the opportunity to do so, PLEASE go to Rome & Florence and learn by looking at this art. I have only seen photos of their works of art but I would love to see it directly.

In a more modern vein, you may want to read a book mentioned in threads in Color Theory, titled; 'Blue & Yellow Don't Make Green". I have promised myself to get this book.

You have the most important ingredient - desire to create; everything else comes in time.

Keep painting,

Frank

djstar
02-17-2002, 11:53 AM
Mame is not the only one, mine is "take what you like and leave the rest."
Sometimes criticism is well meant, right on and relevent, but the student is not at a point where it either makes sense or touches on their own personal feeling of need.
I suggest when the thin skin starts getting in the way of learning, that people remember that this is a journey not a destination, and that if it doesn't seem to do any good today, it can be put aside and when they are ready face it again.
It also covers people that have no idea what they are saying when the critique. It is a way to keep in mind that this whole creation of art process is about improving YOUR OWN work, not making someone else happy.
YOUR OWN work is the important thing, keep doing it and enjoying the process, science or soul, it can be subject to damming when too much litter gets in the way.
dj*

mame
02-17-2002, 12:08 PM
right on dj.

ps - might also add that one's first incomplete attempt is not the time yet to ask for feedback/critiquing. Get a few under the belt, get a sense for where the work (and you) are going, i.e., what do you want? Read, look at a lot of art. Make many, many many and then a few more.

unicorn1776
02-19-2002, 04:03 AM
seems much talk is devoted to projects as yet unformed, and certainly not yet off the drawing board. Talk is cool. Sharing is great. But, first, artists must P A I N T.

sandokan
02-28-2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by mame
It's just a dumb saying - "Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it".

I meant that some emerging/new artists still have pretty thin skins when it comes to criticism of their work. Lots of artists ask, "be honest. Tell me what you really think" Then, when you do, they are crushed, hurt and/or angry and think you are being cruel.

It's hard to get over one's love affair with one's own work. There is such delight at the "creation" process, that sometimes a critique (just one person's opinion) can really put a damper on it unless you are serious about learning and are seriously committed to this wonderful thing called "art".

Some people who will voice an opinion about artwork subscribe to the "pat on the head" nicey-nice kind of critique. I'm not against encouragement, but in my experience, I didn't want pats on the head, I wanted to LEARN - and sometimes it was painful. What I gained from that approach is that I am able to look at my own work "critically", to be ruthless in striving for excellence.

Man, didn't mean to go on and on. Just ignore me.

Well, I'm with you.
But if you tell me a paint of mine is very ugly, arguing it, I accept your opinion, and I will tell you: "Thank you!"
Bye!

sandokan
02-28-2002, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Fmalo
Sandokan,

A little while ago, I read an old book by Irving Stone - 'The Agony & the Ecstasy' about Michaelangelo Buonarrotti. He competed with Leonardo da Vinci and both have shown us some of the world's greatest art. You may wish to read this book.

- I surely will search for that book, yhank you!

If you haven't taken the opportunity to do so, PLEASE go to Rome & Florence and learn by looking at this art. I have only seen photos of their works of art but I would love to see it directly.

- Ok! I live in Pisa and I often go in Florence, and I've seen lots of masterpieces.
Now, I would like to go there for draw some casts!

In a more modern vein, you may want to read a book mentioned in threads in Color Theory, titled; 'Blue & Yellow Don't Make Green". I have promised myself to get this book.

- Well! I'll look for this one, too!

You have the most important ingredient - desire to create; everything else comes in time.

Keep painting,

Frank


Thank you very very very much
You're a friend

mame
02-28-2002, 11:34 AM
There are several hundred folks here who might feel compelled to comment on your work. I suspect the opinions will be as varied as there are critiquers.

As for me, If I really, really don't like a work, I don't comment at all.

As always, take with a grain of salt and a New England lobster dinner

sandokan
02-28-2002, 11:35 AM
Thank you to dj and unicorn, too!
Well, I hope to show you something good, in some months.
I'm going to make a cycle of paintings.
Ciao,
Sandokan