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moonthesun
02-06-2006, 03:50 PM
hi, I wonder if someone could tell me a bit about pastel paper. I think that the 'poundage' refers to the ream of paper? The weight of the ream? But doesn't reflect the thickness of the paper itself...just guessing. I seem to do best on thin paper...I got a tablet of Borden and Riley 80lb pastel paper, and even this seems to thick of a gage....How can I tell thickness of paper without seeing it, meaning if I were to go and order some on a website, they list poundage but not thickness of paper. I've had some Mi Tennes paper that was real good, it was quite thin, but I'm having a hard time finding it. Thanks for any help.

Khadres
02-06-2006, 04:56 PM
I've asked our art supply guru from Dick Blick, Howard Metzenberg, to stop by and shed some light on this question. It's definitely one I've wondered about, as well! Thanks for asking!

dlake
02-06-2006, 04:56 PM
Your paper weight is good. The 80lb is the paper. Like, I use alot of watercolor paper for pastels and I seem to like the 140 or 300 lb cold press. It works well for me and after trying several brands of pastel paper I find I am going more and more back to the watercolor paper. And the weight that states is what you are looking at. What is the weight listed for miteints?? I'll look it up. But, go by that weight. While I was leaving this I saw Sooz answering about Blicks. Yes, great idea. This will help us alot.
diane

moonthesun
02-06-2006, 06:02 PM
Thanks for the responses, I'll check back and see what has posted. I would think if 80lb is a certain thickness and me liking it thinner then probably should look for 60lb or so...dlake I don't seem to do well with thick paper and honestly I can't tell you why, a little strange I guess.

Khadres
02-06-2006, 09:24 PM
What's confusing is that these weights are for unknown size sheets...thus 80lb 9X12 sheets are different that 80lb 20X24 sheets or at least I assume so. Anyway, I would like to know more about it too!

Howard Metzenberg
02-08-2006, 02:13 AM
The weight of the paper, as given in the English system of measurements, is incredibly arcane. First of all, the paper's weight in lbs is actually the weight of a ream of the given paper.

But that means practically nothing, because each paper has a standard sheet size, which differs for different kinds of paper. A sheet of bond paper is 17 x 22, a sheet of watercolor paper is 22 x 30, and so forth.

To make matters even more complicated, the number of sheets in the ream is not standardized. Usually, there are 500 sheets in a ream, but sometimes there are 480.

That's why at Dick Blick we have started to put the metric weight (gsm) on the web page for each paper we sell. This weight, given in "gsm" or grams per square meter, is a constant for comparison across different types of paper. That lets you compare a watercolor paper, a drawing paper, a printmaking paper, a decorative paper, and a typing paper, and measure the weight of all papers by a consistent standard.

The best answer I can give is to start looking at the metric weight and make that your standard for buying and comparing different papers.

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

Kitty Wallis
02-08-2006, 02:26 AM
Ive been using gsm for 10 years; our museum paper is 300 gsm amd our profssional paper is 240 gsm. That's only the paper weight, it does not count the sanded surface coating weight.

moonthesun
02-08-2006, 07:23 AM
those replies should be a real good starting point to find papers thickness, now to find a site that sells them this way might be a challenge, but we have two here it seems in Dick Blick and Kitty Wallis...thanks very much for the help everyone!

Khadres
02-08-2006, 11:36 AM
Thanks so much, Howard and Kitty! I'd often wondered about the gsm measure...makes a lot more sense now that it's been explained! Should make picking various papers a lot easier for all of us.

moonthesun
02-08-2006, 11:43 AM
thanks for your help Khadres, I really do appreciate it. I wonder if other people find it true as well that some types of paper, as in thickness of it is better for thier art than others? Or is it just me?:eek: :)

ponting
02-08-2006, 02:53 PM
I find the the thinner papers are just far to easily damaged or kinked before they ever hit the easel. I have switched to the heavier La Carte card and love it. Kitti's paper is another one that's heavy and difficult to damage. Due to this thickness one doesn't have to pad their artboard before starting neither. In my type of art, I find papers like Mi teintes require a lot more effort to manipulate the pastel. Students end up with 'pilling' when they overblend which is only natural for someone learning new techniques. Since I quite teaching on that paper, my students experience a lot less problems in getting a grip on this new medium.

Cheers, Dianna :wave:

Khadres
02-08-2006, 04:27 PM
Diana are you talking about the veggie coated La Carte stuff? Or the Sennelier smooth kinda plate Bristol type stuff they use for oil pastels? I didn't get along that well with the textured La Carte, but maybe I should give it another shot. How do you manage to blend on that?

ponting
02-08-2006, 08:11 PM
I have to laugh Sooz ...you make it sound edible!! I have never heard of the smooth Sennelier. I've always used the 'veggie' coated. I do wish though that they would come up with a water proof glue. I blend mostly with my fingers and some with colour the chisel colour shaper and on occasion softly with a pastel pencil of similar colour....not really applying any just using it on it's side to blend with. I know you said before that you didn't like the paper. It's is quite different from Wallis in that it's deeper and hangs onto the pastel better for me giving me a chance to blend without things changing too rapidly as they when I use Wallis.

Cheers, Dianna

Howard Metzenberg
02-15-2006, 04:38 AM
Let me give a rough guide ...

Some tracing and decorative papers are as low as 30 gsm
A sketching paper is typically 70-90 gsm.
A drawing paper is typically 120-160 gsm.
A printmaking paper varies widely, in the range 120-300 gsm.
A lightweight watercolor paper is about 200 gsm.
A medium watercolor paper is about 300 gsm.
A heavy watercolor paper is 500 gsm and above.

Think metric!

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

PeggyB
02-15-2006, 05:18 PM
Let me give a rough guide ...

Think metric!

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL

Oh no Howard - not metric! :eek: I'm too old for relearning that math stuff. However, I think I can remember "the smaller the number, the lighter weight the paper" :) .

Thanks for the great tutorial. It is helpful.
Peggy

KJSCL
02-15-2006, 08:03 PM
Let me give a rough guide ...


Think metric!

Howard Metzenberg
Dick Blick Art Materials
Highland Park, IL


Think metric - I'm a Canadian and even I don't think metric when it comes to weight.:evil: Kilometers- yes. Celsius - yes. GSM - huh?:eek:

moonthesun
02-15-2006, 09:34 PM
thanks for that info, now to find some lightweight paper through online stores, I guess I'll check Dick Blick online and see what is available.:)