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Jan Stewart
02-06-2006, 02:42 PM
Hello!

I have a problem. I've used Bob Ross' Liquid white paint and now can't afford to replace it. I've been told by an art supplies shop assistant that Winsor and Newton used to have a leaflet advising how to make similar Liquid white yourself, but the shop assistant no longer had the leaflet and had one of the ingredients missing from what she remembered.
The ingredients were,
Titanium white paint
Paint solvent
and something else?!?

Can anyone help with the last ingredient and the quantities involved?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers

samhill
02-06-2006, 03:16 PM
Hello!

I have a problem. I've used Bob Ross' Liquid white paint and now can't afford to replace it. I've been told by an art supplies shop assistant that Winsor and Newton used to have a leaflet advising how to make similar Liquid white yourself, but the shop assistant no longer had the leaflet and had one of the ingredients missing from what she remembered.
The ingredients were,
Titanium white paint
Paint solvent
and something else?!?

Can anyone help with the last ingredient and the quantities involved?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Hi Jan, I just use a mixture of 1/2 titanium white and 1/2 linseed oil. It goes on very smoothly and thinly (is that a word?). I use it for skies in particular and it works great.

turlogh
02-06-2006, 03:24 PM
Hi Jan, I just use a mixture of 1/2 titanium white and 1/2 linseed oil. It goes on very smoothly and thinly (is that a word?). I use it for skies in particular and it works great.
With that much linseed oil, I'd be concerned about eventual yellowing.

rroberts
02-06-2006, 03:26 PM
Hello Jan, and welcome to the Oil Forum.

I tracked down this information on the same question, posted at a Daler-Rowney forum thread (http://www.daler-rowney.com/artforum/start.asp?forumid=28&select=1062&)

"to make a liquid white just add some stand linseed oil to some white oil paint until you get a mixture about the same as liquid white.I just use stand linseed oil to coat the canvas with instead of liquid clear,just wipe it over with kitch towel first to make sure you havent got too much on there.It works just as well,I use it in my classes with the same effect."

However, I would be very hesitant about using stand oil at such an early stage in the painting.

Based on the product definition (http://www.artistscorner.co.uk/acatalog/Art_Materials_Bob_Ross_Mediums_etc__334.html) : "LIQUID WHITE is a very slow drying oil paint designed to provide a proper painting surface. LIQUID WHITE is also used to thin other oil colours for application over a thicker paint."

If you use a solvent to thin Titanium white, it will speed drying time because you have thinned the oil. If you want a slower drying time, don't use as much, if any, solvent; instead, use regular linseed or walnut oil, but only enough to make your paint 'buttery'. You will find you actually have plenty of time to paint into it.

Note : I have never used Bob Ross products, and wouldn't think of painting this way. The canvas already IS a proper painting surface; so maybe others here can better help you out with this.

cheers!

samhill
02-06-2006, 04:01 PM
With that much linseed oil, I'd be concerned about eventual yellowing.

Yes, I too have wondered about that. However, it goes on in a very, very thin coat, and then it usually gets mixed in with the overpaint as well. I would think one could knock the linseed down to 25% and still be happy. I'll try that next time. I just use it for certain types of harmonious skies.

samhill
02-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Hello Jan, and welcome to the Oil Forum.

I tracked down this information on the same question, posted at a Daler-Rowney forum thread (http://www.daler-rowney.com/artforum/start.asp?forumid=28&select=1062&)

"to make a liquid white just add some stand linseed oil to some white oil paint until you get a mixture about the same as liquid white.I just use stand linseed oil to coat the canvas with instead of liquid clear,just wipe it over with kitch towel first to make sure you havent got too much on there.It works just as well,I use it in my classes with the same effect."

However, I would be very hesitant about using stand oil at such an early stage in the painting.

Based on the product definition (http://www.artistscorner.co.uk/acatalog/Art_Materials_Bob_Ross_Mediums_etc__334.html) : "LIQUID WHITE is a very slow drying oil paint designed to provide a proper painting surface. LIQUID WHITE is also used to thin other oil colours for application over a thicker paint."

If you use a solvent to thin Titanium white, it will speed drying time because you have thinned the oil. If you want a slower drying time, don't use as much, if any, solvent; instead, use regular linseed or walnut oil, but only enough to make your paint 'buttery'. You will find you actually have plenty of time to paint into it.

Note : I have never used Bob Ross products, and wouldn't think of painting this way. The canvas already IS a proper painting surface; so maybe others here can better help you out with this.

cheers!


Thanks for that info, Robert. Say, why would you be hesitant about using stand oil at that early stage? It ends up mixing with the over painting.

rroberts
02-06-2006, 04:23 PM
Thanks for that info, Robert. Say, why would you be hesitant about using stand oil at that early stage? It ends up mixing with the over painting.

To say "because this is my hunch" can't be very useful here, and it's possible I'm wrong (gasp!). I've requested help from more knowledgeable sources. Stay tuned.

Einion
02-07-2006, 06:03 AM
Hi Jan, to answer the basic question I would suggest you try thinning a normal Titanium White with spirits and a touch of additional oil to make your equivalent.

I'm with Robert on being reticent about using much additional stand oil in 'underpainting', particularly if you use much of it. But if you're completing the painting in a single sitting this shouldn't be as big an issue as it would be if you intended to build up a number of layers on top of it.

If you are going to paint in layers I would suggest you either not use any or only a couple of drops, literally; but if you're painting like Bob Ross then you shouldn't have much to worry about, still, use as little as possible to get the effect you want.

Einion

vlandry
02-07-2006, 04:08 PM
My one and only art class has been a Bob Ross last year where you start by greasing your canvas with Liquid White (or in my class's case - edible safflower oil with liquin :eek: !!!). Paint took weeks to dry and then you had to add globs of paint with the special painting knife. At home I tried to branch out on my own and had a very difficult time creating anything that wasn't just a swirling mass of grease.

Fortunately at that time I picked up Weber's "Essentials of Brushstrokes" and, after digesting as much as I could, things got better. I found WetCanvas and then I saw real progress (IMHO). I've never pre-greased my canvases again.

Forget the liquid white.

Cheers,
Vic

Jack Frost
02-07-2006, 05:14 PM
Why all the furore about Bob Ross quote " I wouldn't think of painting this way" and the comment about greasing your canvas what a statement,i don't think that vlandry could have been to a class held by a recognised Bob Ross instructor as i couldn't imagine them useing safflower oil and liquin, you might as well use sunflower oil and white gouache, i have used liquid white and can assure you my canvas isn't greased, take a look at my paintings i am sure you will see the canvas doesn't look as if it has grease on it and i have found the drying time the same as normal oil paints, if you wish to substitute liquid white with an alternative may i suggest you experiment until you get the desired medium, you will probably find the amount of time, materials and effort you put into finding an alternative it would probably have been cheaper to purchase the liquid white in the first instance, after all would you consider making your own oil paints by grinding down different pigments? i think not, or how about breeding your own pigs to get the hair to make some brushes, it goes on and on, it depends on what you call expensive, i must have got at least 30 20" x 16"paintings out of a small tin of liquid white, it is meant to be used sparelingly and i personally have never had any probelms with it, thats my two penneth.
jack

turlogh
02-07-2006, 06:22 PM
I don't think there's anything wrong with painting into a layer of white. A number of the pre-Raphaelites in the 19th century painted into a wet layer of lead white and copal varnish, producing some really luminous effects.

Used with care (i.e., avoiding too much linseed or stand oil), there is no technical reason to avoid this method, whatever you may specifically think of Mr. Ross.

rroberts
02-07-2006, 06:34 PM
Why all the furore about Bob Ross quote " I wouldn't think of painting this way" and the comment about greasing your canvas what a statement

It's not a furor that I can see. I even took time to track down the most relevant information I could find and post it. That I wouldn't paint this way is admittedly merely my opinion, and now we have more opinions, including yours, which I also distinctly asked for when suggesting that "maybe others here can better help you out with this".

Themoman
03-28-2006, 09:39 PM
The original Magic White (Bill Alexander's) was made from Titanium White, fine quality safflower oil, and a bit of thinner. Sorry I don't know the amounts. Bob Ross used pretty much the same mix when he left Bill's company, (Alexander's Magic Art, now Alexander Art), and lit out on his own. He changed the name to Liquid White. In the late 80's he thickened it up quite a bit.
DaVinci Paints made it for awhile under the name White Painting Base. I don't think it's available any longer. A Florida artist had it made using the name Basik White. That's no longer available either.
I haven't tried making my own as I have found it easy to come by.

As this method of painting is geared to the "hobby" painter, which I am, I find using the materials made for it work well.
The simple principals of this method make it easy for the person who doesn't have an art education, know color theory or even understand composition to have fun painting.
I know that my students really have a ball with it.

Lily_Katz
03-06-2007, 04:55 PM
Hello!

I have a problem. I've used Bob Ross' Liquid white paint and now can't afford to replace it. I've been told by an art supplies shop assistant that Winsor and Newton used to have a leaflet advising how to make similar Liquid white yourself, but the shop assistant no longer had the leaflet and had one of the ingredients missing from what she remembered.
The ingredients were,
Titanium white paint
Paint solvent
and something else?!?
...
Cheers
This is a late answer to your question, but you can duplicate Liquid White without even mixing it. Simply coat your canvas with a very thin coat of boiled linseed oil. Then, using a large brush, apply a thin layer of titanium white. For Liquid Clear, just use the boiled linseed oil. By the way, "boiled linseed oil" is not boiled, it is raw linseed oil which has had dryers added to make it dry faster. It should dry in about 24 hours, depending upon the paint you mix into it. You can also use raw linseed oil and wait 3 weeks for it to dry.

meart
03-06-2007, 05:58 PM
well said themoman, i am glad you have the courage to say you are a hobby painter and you are enjoying it well done !!!! and carry on enjoying it

TallGuy
03-06-2007, 11:28 PM
I used Titanium White and a little bit (only a few drops per smallish blob of white) of linseed oil. You really only need enough linseed oil to thin the paint enough to get it more workable to get a nice smooth layer over the canvas.

A thin layer of the "linseed white" is enough to allow the layers on top to be pushed around like Bob used to do.

After using the above on three paintings in the Bob Ross style I could follow his steps and reproduce paintings in his style without a problem.

Jason.

meart
03-07-2007, 05:32 AM
or did i miss read what you said???

quackzed
03-07-2007, 11:46 PM
i miss bill alexander... its not my style of painting, though ive done a few in that style... i just want him there to tell me to not be afraid to use my magic white...his attitude of fearlesness has remained with me all these years and remains one of my most treasured assets...

Mariah1st
03-08-2007, 05:30 AM
I use a simple 1/3 Titanium white, 1/3 linseed oil and 1/3 Turp. Apply as thin as possible. don't let dit dry Works perfectly for wet-on-wet paintings as long as you keep the layer as thin as possible. This enables you to paint very fast if you like to.....)

A simple example, painted in oil on canvas 40*50 cm with cheap chinese oilpaint:
http://www.galerij.njderoo.eu/Images/Oudkarspel1.jpg
"Thunderstorm over lake Waardje - Oudkarspel - Netherlands"

smart-artist17
04-13-2007, 02:28 AM
Hi I only joined today fri/13/04, I bought a tub of bob ross liquid white but you can stand your brush up in it, it is so thick. How do i thin it down enough to use it.
Regards
Smart-artist
dont laugh i am not that smart:wave:

wetbob
04-13-2007, 04:12 AM
I also use a simple 1/3 Titanium white, 1/3 linseed oil and 1/3 Turp. Can experiment with Zinc white.

There are here already many post about this subject:

for example=
1 part Stand Oil
1 Part Sun thickened Walnut Oil (Very thick almost like linseed stand oil)
1 part Walnut oil.
2 parts Turpentine

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372399

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393541&highlight=liquid+white+ross

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137718&highlight=liquid+white+ross

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186583&highlight=liquid+white+ross

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152376&highlight=liquid+white+ross

I LOVE BOB,

Greetings WETBOB

Marge Wms
04-13-2007, 08:07 AM
I know I may be in the wrong place to ask this question, but it IS about Liquid White! I've been asked if there is a product like this to be used with acrylic paints. Do any of you know if there is an acrylic medium that could be used this way?

Some people who paint in oil use acrylics for a base, so perhaps I'll be able to find an answer here... Gigi

smart-artist17
04-13-2007, 09:00 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/13-Apr-2007/105688-wave_1.jpg

Hi Everyone, Have you heard of Darrell Crow. He has a free 2hr dvd for you all. Plus he has a video of painting with acrylics and what to use to keep it wet. He did train with bob ross their teacher was bill alexander. It is all wet-on-wet painting. I did this last week and i used his liquid white thinned with refined linseed oil and any old paint i could get some of the paint is the cheapest paint called mont marte.
Happy painting
smart artist.:clap:

wetbob
04-16-2007, 02:48 PM
where can we find this freeeee vid?

smart-artist17
04-26-2007, 11:35 PM
Hi Wetbob,

You can get the Darrell Crow dvd by contacting darrell on his web site
at www.darrellcrow.biz The rest of his dvds are fantastic. Tell him pat in australia gave you the info.

Best Regards
Pat:wave:

smart-artist17
04-26-2007, 11:51 PM
Hi Wetbob, Did you order one
Best Regards,
Pat
Australia:wave:

wetbob
04-27-2007, 02:57 AM
ill go and look. with regards,

Wetbob

quebectouch
04-27-2007, 03:33 AM
I know I may be in the wrong place to ask this question, but it IS about Liquid White! I've been asked if there is a product like this to be used with acrylic paints. Do any of you know if there is an acrylic medium that could be used this way?

Some people who paint in oil use acrylics for a base, so perhaps I'll be able to find an answer here... Gigi

You can't, the liquide white la Bob Ross is not really possible with acrylic, though I experimented mixing 1/3 of white with bunch of retarder with 1/3 medium and 1/3 egg yolk. But it was for a different interesting effect. Oil flow on the canvas differently than acrylic, that was my thing with yolk, giving a little of such flowing property.

smart-artist17
04-27-2007, 04:58 AM
Hi VANISH, I had a go at painting with acrylics and oils together. what i did was black gesso then painted a picture of the lake bottom, after it dried i painted the whole canvas with liquid clear then a little amount of blue. i then painted the waterfall and the sides and lakesides. good effect for my first go at this style of painting. And it Sold.:clap: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Apr-2007/105688-FISH_AND_WATERFALL.jpg
Best Regards Half the Fun of Painting is the Trying.
Pat

wetbob
04-27-2007, 09:24 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :clap: :thumbsup: :clap: :thumbsup:

:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :

plec
04-27-2007, 09:40 AM
hi Jan, I am sitting looking at the leaflet that was given out,( good filing or get a life are the words that come to mind!!)
it states
Liquid white= Titanium white and linseed stand oil and solvent.
Gesso Black= Mars Black plus linseed stand oil and solvent.
Liquid Clear= linseed stand oil thinned with white spirits.
No proportions are given.
hope this helps Ken.

smart-artist17
05-01-2007, 09:31 PM
Hi Plec,

You can find recipes for liquid white and clear plus magic white on an english web site it is www.ayoubart.co.uk (http://www.ayoubart.co.uk). Just go on sue,s arty party page and it will give a lot of questions and answers on it. Hope it helps.
Best Regards
Pat:wave:

Marge Wms
05-09-2007, 08:37 PM
This has been very helpful, but now another question! Same subject, only different! LOL

How would you make a "liquid white" for the basic H2Oils that are now on the market???? That's what I am using for my WIP painting I just posted. "Lakey Stream".. It's really too late to use that on this WIP, as you can see by my humble beginnings. But I have wondered about using this technique in H2Oils... Anybody know?? THanx.. Gigi

dreamscape
05-12-2007, 10:26 PM
How would you make a "liquid white" for the basic H2Oils that are now on the market?

I think the basic formula would be the same, except you would use the water soluble counterparts.

I know Winsor & Newton makes water soluble oil mediums as part of their water soluble oil product line. Holbein makes a water soluble linseed oil as well, but I think that is the only water soluble oil medium they make. I don't know if anyone else makes water soluble oil mediums yet.

And instead of turpentine or mineral spirits, you'd use water.

For traditional oils, 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 seems to be the magic formula, but it may be different with water soluble oils.

I did a wet on wet style painting the other day using water soluble oils, and I don't have any water soluble linseed oil at the moment, but do have some water soluble painting medium, which according to the Winsor & Newton leaflet, both the linseed oil medium and the painting medium share the same basic properties.

I mixed about 45% titanium white + 45% medium + 10% water, and it seemed to work well... it was a little bit thick, and I did end up going back over it with a wet brush to thin it out some, so perhaps 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 is what you want with water soluble oils as well.

Sandy K
05-13-2007, 02:25 PM
Gigi, I also use the H2Oils.......I love the Van Gough water soluble oils..they are so creamy......anyway, you can still use the "magic white" as the oils remain water soluble because the proportion of Oil to Water is still within what the requirements are.

smart-artist17
05-19-2007, 05:11 AM
Hi Everyone,

Can anyone help me on how long it takes a painting to dry.
I painted my background in acrylic then put a thin layer of liquid clear on then I painted a picture of a rose on top. But it seems that it is still very wet. And when I put it on an easel the oil paint seems to run, so I am keeping it flat and hoping it will dry as I like the painting and dont want to start again. http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-May-2007/105688-1_rose.jpg I will have to ask Darrell Crow what I should do. This is my first flower painting after watching his DVD. Hey WET Bob did you get your free DVD?
Best Regards
smart artist:wave:

smart-artist17
05-29-2007, 08:22 AM
I used Titanium White and a little bit (only a few drops per smallish blob of white) of linseed oil. You really only need enough linseed oil to thin the paint enough to get it more workable to get a nice smooth layer over the canvas.

A thin layer of the "linseed white" is enough to allow the layers on top to be pushed around like Bob used to do.

After using the above on three paintings in the Bob Ross style I could follow his steps and reproduce paintings in his style without a problem.

Jason.

Hi Jason,

I have been trying to find the ingredients to Liquid white and came across Darrell Grows recipe it is:-
up to 90% Gamblin Galkyd,
up to 50% Gamblin Gamsol,
up to 10 Linseed Oil,
optional Drop of either Japan Drier or Cobalt.

I want to ask you as well, where do I buy these ingredients from in Australia.
Its hard to find out when you are self taught and have only just started to paint.

Best Regards

Smart Artist:confused:

mi amigos
09-24-2008, 11:51 AM
Hi Everyone,
another new one :-)
Liquid white and oderless oil im haveing a real problem finding it I live in spain delivery from other countries are becomming a problem too and very expencive please can anyone help or advise me
Thank you:o

plec
09-26-2008, 09:45 AM
Hi Miriam sorry I cannot help you regarding the supply of orderless thinners in Spain..If the Liquid White you are asking about is the Bob Ross product this question has been raised often and there are a number of answers which may help. If you look at the top right of this page you will see a "search for" box simply type in "liquid white" and then from the next box along select forums from the drop down menu and hit the search button, your question should be answered.
hope this is of help. Ken..

Aires
09-26-2008, 12:19 PM
Have you thought of mixing your own liquid white? It seems that a mixture of titanium white and walnut oil with just enough mineral spirits to thin the consistency is about all it takes to mix your own. Someone else suggested the same formula except they used safflower oil. Walnut and safflower oils are both used in paint as is linseed oil. You are really just putting down a slippery surface to make your paint move freely so it should be inexpensive to mix a small amount and give it a try. If you search under "formula for liquid white" you will find many viewpoints and a few formulas. A very thin coat of walnut oil will give you about the same effect in making the paint move freely on your canvas. Hope this helps.

Dave Carter
09-27-2008, 12:36 PM
Hardware stores in my area have it, but not art supply stores.

rasim
09-27-2008, 12:45 PM
yea just use titanium white with mix of oil and you will get nice results ;)

TallGuy
09-28-2008, 02:21 AM
I also have used standard titanium white and enough linseed oil to get it flowing (not liquid, but enough to make it less thick than titanium out of the tube).

This was for the Bob Ross style of the base coat to work wet in wet over (assuming this is what you are after). No need to find the name brand. Just use titanium white and oil.

I did get results that looked similar to Bob Ross painting demos. Actually it still irks me when people see my paintings and prefer the Bob Ross style ones I whipped out in an hour max and shrug when they see the ones I spent days or weeks on.

Jason.

WFMartin
09-28-2008, 02:37 AM
I would recommend the use of Walnut Oil with the Titanium White, simply because it dries slower, and is slipperier than Linseed Oil. For painting in this style, you'll need all the "open" (wet) time on your palette and canvas that you can get.

Bill

Paden
09-28-2008, 10:56 AM
Be careful if you get the Graham walnut oils. There are two types, The straight walnut oil that will dry slower and the alkyd walnut oil that will dry faster.

If you try to use these oils as a slippery base, it's hard to get enough on the canvas to cover it without getting too much so it runs. If I am doing something with this technique I put as much on as needed to cover then I tonk (soak up the excess) with newspaper.

Mariah1st
09-28-2008, 12:01 PM
Just go the simple way: 1/3 Titanium White 1/3 Purified linseed oil 1/3 (Oderless) Turp. This will stay workable for a day or two, if you've applied enough to soak the canvas.

Lightpainter
11-03-2009, 03:28 AM
This is an old recipe that I have had written down, So being that this is an old thread, they should fit together.
1. Liquid Clear, Stand Oil cut with Sansador 10 to 20%. As an undercoat apply with a rag or brush. Then wipe most of it off. All that you want is just enough to coat the board/canvas.
2. Liquid White, Titainium White, add enough Liquid clear to make the T-White creamy so that it flows easily. Not runny.
3. Liquid Black, Black Gesso, Black Dispersion Material, Mars Black, add enough Liquid Clear to make the Mars Black Creamy so that it flows easily. Not runny. You could probibly use Ivory Black instead of Mars Black.
It does not take much of any of the above. It helps flow and blending of your subsequent colours.

Kory
01-16-2012, 12:12 PM
Just wondering if you have problems with liquid white drying. All of my colored parts are dry, but its been a month and the liquid white parts of the painting are as wet as the day i painted it.

Is it ever going to dry?

Aires
01-16-2012, 04:25 PM
Daryl Crow and others give a good test as to the amount of liquid white or liquid clear to have on your canvas. You apply a thin even coat and then press your finger tip lightly against the surface. You should be able to see your finger print through the liquid white rather than seeing just paint. It helps judge by what is meant by a thin coat until it becomes automatic.

To the person inquiring about a similar undercoat for acrylic..tto my knowledge, there is not an equivalent to liquid white but Jerry Yarnell's free videos on using gesso shows how to use a combination of a mist of water and gesso to keep paint wet as long as needed and to let the paint slide around rather than grab the surface. The TV acrylic artist, Brenda Harris, used and sold a liquid white and liquid clear which were useful for blending without a hard line but they were not used as an undercoat. I believe they also slow drying time.

psilocybe
01-17-2012, 02:16 PM
I've got bob Ross liquid white sitting around in a clear mason jar and so it has seperated. Its pretty much 1/8 the total volume of thin oil(cut with OMS) floating on top of the white pigment. I hope this helps.

ddattler
01-17-2012, 05:29 PM
I start allot of my landscape in the wet-on-wet style. I start with a very thin coat of liquid or magic white, mixed with my brush tip, dipped in copal medium (1 part each-Damar, Linseed oil, Gum Turpentine), or mixed with medium on my palette. I add 1 or 2 drops of cobalt drier to each ounce of copal medium, if I want the painting to dry quicker.

If I don't have liquid white or Magic white, I use Titanium white mixed with just enough copal medium to make it spread smoothly on my painting surface. As long as a little copal medium is used with the paint, the painting will dry at least tacky within a day or 2.

Either way, you don't need a thick underpainting, or you'll run into problems. I use just enough coating so it's barely visible, but covers the entire area.

Don Dattler