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View Full Version : ARGH! The ACEO's are taking over!


ElizaLeahy
01-19-2006, 06:26 AM
Now, I'm the last person to say anything against ACEO's (in case you don't know me I run the art-card.org site, which is the offical ACEO website) but...

Where are the miniatures? Can we have a thread just for discussing miniatures? Please? :)

I'd like to talk about the different ways of miniature technique, of brushes used, of mediums. I'd like to see examples of miniatures - not just small paintings, but paintings done in the miniature technique.

If you don't know what I'm talking about I'll explain! :)

An ACEO *can* be a miniature - but it might not be. You see a "true" miniature isn't just the size of the painting, but the way it is painted.

If you look at a beautiful large realist portrait of a person, you see the detail of the hair and the eyes and the clothing and the eyelashes etc.

Now shrink all that detail and put it in a small format. Don't leave any of that detail out - just make it tiny!

That's a miniature.

As I said, I have *nothing* against ACEO's and I love looking at all the examples we are seeing here. But they are like an introduced species in an area with no natural preditors - they are taking over! lol

valchina612
01-19-2006, 06:39 AM
Yes Eliza, a Miniature is drawn to scale according to the overall support size. Non-scale Miniatures are actually called Small Format or Small Art.
There are much more Small Format ACEOs being rendered than there are real Miniatures.

Val. :wave:

Bertoni
01-19-2006, 06:52 AM
Eliza:
Yes, I've noticed how ACEOs have taken over the Miniature Art forum. They are within the measurements of a legal mini.
Maybe there should be an ACEO forum just for aceos?????
I've tried to show some of my regular mini work here such as these:http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/28168-Lndscp_4_Fini.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/28168-Tusc_unframed.jpghttp://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/28168-Sheep_Barns_mini.jpg
I hope non ACEO'ers will join in more often and post more of their regular miniature paintings. I know I'll try to post more of mine. I've been involved with doing large paintings lately, but will be doing more miniature work.:)
Eliza, there should be a lot of mini info at the beginning of the forum.

ElizaLeahy
01-19-2006, 06:57 AM
I think we are seeing so many ACEO's as compared to "proper" minis because of the time factor. It's quicker to do a non miniature technique painting then it is to do a real one. What medium are those paintings in Bertoni? I particularly like the second one with the houses on the hillside.

I'm working on larger works at the moment too - 6 foot by 7 foot - so I haven't had the opertunity to do a miniature for awhile! I'm joining my local society on the 11th Feb, they finally got in touch with me after the Christmas break. I'm looking forward to that!

Bertoni
01-19-2006, 07:31 AM
:wave: Hi Eliza:
All my minis are done in acrylics on pre-gessoed artboard MDF or occasionally on gessoed matboard.
That second one is a scene in Tuscany...

valchina612
01-19-2006, 08:35 AM
Hi Eliza,

Bertoni is correct in saying that ACEOs are in within the measurements of a legal Mini. Anything up to 16 square inches is completely legal for this Forum. Maybe a Forum for ACEOs would be a great idea.

Bertoni, I love your Miniatures -- they are so colourful and beautiful designs.

Here are a few of my Miniatures.

They are all Acrylics, except for the second one which is Watercolours.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/38312-ebay__--__ACEO_Cottage_and_Landscape_5-10-05.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/38312-ebay__--__ACEO_Landscape_with_Sheep_2.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/38312-ebay__--__ACEO_All-Over_Floral_Design..jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Jan-2006/38312-ebay_--_ACEO_Orange_Sunset_4-10-05.jpg

JamieWG
01-19-2006, 09:04 AM
Dear Eliza,
I have some really great news for you. For the past week or so, we've been working on getting up a forum for ACEO/ATCs. :D So very, very soon, they will have their own home right here on Wetcanvas. The forum will most likely be a subforum of Miniature Art. :D

Jamie

Bertoni
01-19-2006, 10:05 AM
Thanks Val, I love your minis too!:clap: :clap: :clap:

...a subforum on Miniature Art would be perfect for ACEO painters! A place of their own at last!!! That reminds me, I have try a couple of ACEOs myself! :)

hillrune
01-19-2006, 11:01 AM
Watch out! Bertoni...they are addicting. I started painting them again last week or so and have spent many hours since.

Mary

Bertoni
01-19-2006, 12:18 PM
Mary:
Uh, oh!!! I'm in for it!!! LOL:)

Lady Rando
01-19-2006, 01:06 PM
Yep, what Jamie said. :) Not to worry, ACEO/ATC's will soon have a home of there own.

jmp
01-19-2006, 01:35 PM
so...anything 4"x4" or under is considered a miniature around here? i've seen artist ads in magazines or advertisements for galleries that have referred to paintings 8 " x 10" and even some a few inches larger as miniatures...does it depend on how large you 'usually' work or is there a standard definition in the art world of miniatures. the only miniature show I ever went to, the pieces were very small.

Bertoni
01-19-2006, 02:30 PM
I think that the standard definition for a miniature is 16" square or under that!:)

ElizaLeahy
01-19-2006, 05:22 PM
Thank you for the ACEO forum! That's great news.

Yes, I know that ACEO's can be miniatures because of the size (I did point that out in my first message) - but size isn't the factor that makes something a miniature. I'm in a group that works 2 inches and under, and many of those aren't "miniatures" either.

I'll look forward to more discussion about miniatures soon :)

valchina612
01-19-2006, 06:07 PM
YEAH!!!!!!!! A new home for ACEO/ATCs -- let's hope we see lots of them in their new home. :clap: :clap:

Val. :wave:

professir
01-20-2006, 01:17 PM
Ok. For the "newbie" here, what IS an ACEO?

the confused and learning professir
professir@yahoo.com

Lady Rando
01-20-2006, 02:37 PM
Artist Card Edition and Originals

gayelyn
01-20-2006, 05:08 PM
It would be great to have a separate aceo site.Australia seems to be in the early stages of interest in this art form. I was excited finding a small group here for advice and feedback.Thanks.

pameladallaire
01-20-2006, 07:41 PM
Jmp, the miniature show I am painting for in Feb. states the painting can be on a 5" x 6" or 6" x 8" but the actual painting, in the center, must be no larger than 3" x 4". Every place is different.
:) Pam

dd50
01-21-2006, 05:02 AM
I absolutely agree Aliza!!!

I come here often to check for posts discussing true miniature paintings, and see allot of ACEO's and other 'small format' art also. I really want to talk about 'miniature detailed' art!

I too have painted and illustrated ACEO's, but I also enjoy doing fine tiny detailed work .. and love to talk about it, see it, etc.

I also look forward to the possibility of a Polymer Clay forum ... guess that's being considered also. So many mediums, so little time! :D

Dee

JamieWG
01-21-2006, 09:36 AM
Dee, I just love your enthusiasm for all these different formats and mediums. I can relate! heeheehee.... We're all really excited about the new forum for the same reasons you mention.

Jamie

eponaluna
01-21-2006, 07:50 PM
Does anyone have examples of small format and miniature that they can put side by side for comparison? I'm a little vague on what the difference is...

redtreestudio
01-22-2006, 10:27 AM
I would like to see a side by side comparison also.

Avie
01-22-2006, 11:25 AM
I started doing artist trading cards and I am now very interested in doing true miniatures. I was hoping to learn more about them at here but have also been overwhelmed by all the ACEO's. I am not against them but would prefer to see more variety in the miniature's forum.

About a year ago there were several ATC projects going and we tried in vain to get a ATC forum started but the results were disappointing. ACEO's would have fit in perfectly but the moderators said no.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Projects/index.php?cmd=view_details&proj_id=728

JamieWG
01-22-2006, 11:36 AM
I started doing artist trading cards and I am now very interested in doing true miniatures. I was hoping to learn more about them at here but have also been overwhelmed by all the ACEO's. I am not against them but would prefer to see more variety in the miniature's forum.

About a year ago there were several ATC projects going and we tried in vain to get a ATC forum started but the results were disappointing. ACEO's would have fit in perfectly but the moderators said no.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/Projects/index.php?cmd=view_details&proj_id=728

Hi Avie. At that time, there was a changeover in the Wetcanvas administration, and then after that it seemed that all the ATC/ACEO folks up and vanished! We've seen them returning to post their work here now, so we're eager to get a forum up and running. Stay tuned....very soon....probably any day now. :)

Jamie

Bertoni
01-22-2006, 11:45 AM
Avie:
When the ACEO/ATC subforum is finally set up...we'll have more regular miniature painting action going.
I for one will strive in that direction!
It will be great for ACEO folks to have their own spot in WC.:clap: :)

ElizaLeahy
01-22-2006, 04:33 PM
I can show the difference between miniature and small format...

This is an ACEO

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2006/4490-1.jpg

This is a miniature

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/22-Jan-2006/4490-lady2.jpg

The size difference between the two is only 1/2 inch, but the miniature is more detailed. Now, I could have done the miniature the same size as the ACEO and it would have been both a miniature and an ACEO. Just happens that it's on art board that comes cut 2.5" x 3" so it's 1/2 an inch too small to be an ACEO.

Probably not the best example, but an example :)

pameladallaire
01-22-2006, 07:54 PM
This was both a miniature and ACEO. Last year. :) Pam

JamieWG
01-22-2006, 07:58 PM
Pam, that is really well done! Bravo!

Eliza, love your examples. Now please, get off those train tracks. Heeheehee

Jamie

Rettakat
01-22-2006, 08:27 PM
Hi Avie. At that time, there was a changeover in the Wetcanvas administration, and then after that it seemed that all the ATC/ACEO folks up and vanished! We've seen them returning to post their work here now, so we're eager to get a forum up and running. Stay tuned....very soon....probably any day now. :)

Jamie

I am a little fuzzy, then, on where SFA (Small Format Art) belongs at WC...
Will it still be welcome on the Miniature forum? I am thinking of non-aceo/atc type small art, up to 196 square inches; must it still be done following the
1/6 th rule, as for true miniatures?

I am thinking about the current movement painting square art. Is this the right forum to share this, if it is small?

Thanks,
Loretta in Oregon
=^..^=

JamieWG
01-22-2006, 08:42 PM
I am a little fuzzy, then, on where SFA (Small Format Art) belongs at WC...
Will it still be welcome on the Miniature forum? I am thinking of non-aceo/atc type small art, up to 196 square inches; must it still be done following the
1/6 th rule, as for true miniatures?

I am thinking about the current movement painting square art. Is this the right forum to share this, if it is small?

Thanks,
Loretta in Oregon
=^..^=

Hi Loretta. For the purposes of our Miniature Art forum here on Wetcanvas, only works 16 square inches or less may be posted. So if you're working in square art, up to 4x4 inches is acceptable. 196 square inches would be way beyond the boundaries of this forum, but many members in all of the other forums are painting 5x7, 8x10, 6x6, 12x12, 11x14....You won't be alone out there! ;)

At the top of the forum page is a Sticky thread with our Miniature Art forum Guidelines. If you read that, it will give you all the info about posting here in the Miniature Art forum.

Jamie

eponaluna
01-23-2006, 12:39 AM
Ok, I'm throwing up a couple of mine here to be sure I understand this. They are posted elsewhere already so I apologize for that. Would these just be considered aceos or can I call them miniatures too?

Cara

Rettakat
01-23-2006, 02:04 AM
Hi Loretta. For the purposes of our Miniature Art forum here on Wetcanvas, only works 16 square inches or less may be posted. So if you're working in square art, up to 4x4 inches is acceptable. 196 square inches would be way beyond the boundaries of this forum, but many members in all of the other forums are painting 5x7, 8x10, 6x6, 12x12, 11x14....You won't be alone out there! ;)

At the top of the forum page is a Sticky thread with our Miniature Art forum Guidelines. If you read that, it will give you all the info about posting here in the Miniature Art forum.

Jamie

Thank you, Jamie, I will re-read the guidelines.

I wonder then, if WC is considering a forum for Small Format Art? In the art world in general, it already is an accepted category (art up to 196 square inches).

Thank you,
Loretta in Oregon
=^..^=

ElizaLeahy
01-23-2006, 02:37 AM
Do you really need a separate forum? I mean, if you do a painting in watercolour of a wild duck that is 5 x 7" you can put it in the watercolor section and the animals section - the size isn't as relevant.

Miniature paintings have a different technique and some really strict rules so a forum just for them makes sense. ACEO's are becoming so popular and there are so many people doing them that it makes sense to have a forum for them, especially as they are crowding out the miniature forum.

But if you start talking sizes, there is 2UND (2 inches and under) which don't have to be miniature, and there is 4X4 which many people are doing, each size does not need it's own section or you deversify too much.

JamieWG
01-23-2006, 03:48 AM
Thank you, Jamie, I will re-read the guidelines.

I wonder then, if WC is considering a forum for Small Format Art? In the art world in general, it already is an accepted category (art up to 196 square inches).

Thank you,
Loretta in Oregon
=^..^=

Loretta, I don't recall that anybody has ever requested such a forum. In the Plein Air forum, for example, over 95% of the work would fall within your small format!

However, if you'd like to give it a try, the thing to do is to start a poll in the Site Discussions forum so that members and staff can vote for or against such a forum and discuss it. The site owner ultimately makes the decision on new forums based on member and staff requests. That's how this forum got started. :)

With regard to Miniature Art, although many societies focus on detailing, or restrict proportions to 1/6 of life size, again our only restriction here on Wetcanvas is the size restriction. Even after the ATC/ACEOs have their own forum, any painting under 16 square inches will still be welcomed here in the MA forum.

Jamie

ElizaLeahy
01-23-2006, 04:04 AM
Jamie I feel I've been chastised. Was that your intention? Perhaps I should stop responding.

JamieWG
01-23-2006, 06:22 AM
Jamie I feel I've been chastised. Was that your intention? Perhaps I should stop responding.

Oh, Eliza, not at all! Please don't stop! I'm sorry if I conveyed that. When this forum was first created, there was a bit of a to-do about what was allowable and what wasn't. Different Miniature Art Societies have such different requirements and restrictions that we decided to make our guidelines here on Wetcanvas much more general, and only have the size limitation. I just want to be sure the members understand that any work at all done within that size of 16 square inches or less is welcomed here.

That being said, this forum is also absolutely the right place to discuss the technical detailing that most of the miniature societies seek, as well as the scale requirements, etc. It's all good, and I very much welcome and appreciate your input. :)

Jamie

pameladallaire
01-23-2006, 09:33 AM
The whole reason for having an art forum is to discuss things like new techniques, trends, and theories. I believe that all this discussion is good for us. It wakes us up to what is going on in the arts and the world in general. We have to keep current. If the members of wetcanvas don't keep us current, who will? :)

ElizaLeahy
01-23-2006, 06:11 PM
Sorry Jamie, you probably didn't convey that, I was probably just feeling touchy! Sorry :)

Avie
01-24-2006, 10:14 AM
I think that the world of ACEO's and ATC's are becoming popular enough to have their own forums. They are considered 'mail art' in most places... just a thought ~ Avie

TeAnne
01-28-2006, 08:51 PM
It would be great to have a separate aceo site.Australia seems to be in the early stages of interest in this art form. I was excited finding a small group here for advice and feedback.Thanks.

:D Ebay Australia was the first of the Ebays to get an Aceo/Art Card Category.

Katherine T
01-29-2006, 09:17 AM
I've started doing small format work - typically 7"x5" - and I'm finding that it has to be fundamentally different to my larger works if it is to be effective.

It seems to me that there are three sorts of smaller types of art

miniature art (ie what this forum was set up for) - which as people indicate tends to be a miniature version of full-sized works and hence very detailed
ACEOs (the focus of the new sub-forum) - which have a rigid size criteria - but can be as detailed as the artist decides, or not, as the case may be
small format art - which is becoming much more popular for a variety of reasons. I'd suggest small format is also a challenge in itself in terms of subject matter, composition and technique. However, there is no obvious place to go for discussions about working in a small format - although some forums might find it easier to accommodate than others.It would be nice if there was somewhere specific where small format works could be discussed.

Rettakat
01-30-2006, 02:20 AM
I'd suggest small format is also a challenge in itself in terms of subject matter, composition and technique. However, there is no obvious place to go for discussions about working in a small format - although some forums might find it easier to accommodate than others.[/LIST]It would be nice if there was somewhere specific where small format works could be discussed.

I asked for the same thing, for the same reasons.
:D

It was suggested to go to the forum that discussed whatever medium one was using. (That won't work for me, there isn't one). Or the forum covering the particular subject matter. (Not practical, I do a variety of subject matter).

Besides, the thing in COMMON that I wanted to discuss, was Small Format Art, and all that entails.

The Oils painting forum is starting up a sub-forum for Small paintings, but are limiting the Subject matter to "incidentals". (Once again, won't work for me).

Ah well, just wanted to give my enthusiastic support to the idea of a forum (or sub-forum) for Small Format Art. :clap:

Seems like Small Format Art should be the "parent" forum, with Miniatures and ACEOS it's sub-forums.
:eek:

Just kidding!!:angel:

Happy Painting!
Loretta in Oregon
=^..^=

Rettakat
01-30-2006, 04:02 AM
The Oils painting forum is starting up a sub-forum for Small paintings, but are limiting the Subject matter to "incidentals". (Once again, won't work for me).



Oops, sorry. I just read that they decided to open it up to any subject matter. My apologies. :o


Loretta in Oregon
=^..^=

JamieWG
01-30-2006, 10:17 AM
The Oils painting forum is starting up a sub-forum for Small paintings, but are limiting the Subject matter to "incidentals". (Once again, won't work for me).

I think it's just a monthly thread they're doing in the Oils forum, not a subforum. And it's for any works 8x10 or less, whether "incidentals" or not. :)

Ah well, just wanted to give my enthusiastic support to the idea of a forum (or sub-forum) for Small Format Art. :clap:

Most plein air painters work "small format" all the time, as do many/most colored pencil artists and other mediums as well. It doesn't seem to me to be something unusual enough to stand as its own forum. It's true that galleries often have exhibits of small format paintings, especially before the holidays, but IMO that's more because they make for more sales of less expensive gift items, and not because it's of a different genre.

That being said though, you can always post a poll in the Site Discussions forum to determine interest for a new forum and conduct discussions about it.

Jamie

Rettakat
01-30-2006, 09:27 PM
It's true that galleries often have exhibits of small format paintings, especially before the holidays, but IMO that's more because they make for more sales of less expensive gift items, and not because it's of a different genre.


Hmmm, now that's a point of view I hadn't considered. I guess it makes sense, from that perspective. Thanks for your input.

Happy Painting,
Loretta in Oregon
=^..^=