Liz ~WIP~

[dragonshade]

Hello everyone :wave: It's been awhile since I last posted, and I've started a new drawing......lol....the dreaded celeb portrait :p......so..thought I'd start a new wip thread. This is just the very beginning...the line drawing is done (close enough), and I've just started rendering in the "mini-drawing" style, by which I mean rendering small pictures within the picture to completion (or nearly so), before moving on to a new section. When you see I think you'll get the idea. It is worth noting that the only thing I'd call "finished" in this 1 1/2" by 1 1/2" "working" section is the iris of the eye. The rest of the section...for example the skin has only 1 light layer of circularism at this point....will get a lot more mid-tones, layers, details, and darks added to what you see. This way of drawing seems to really make me concentrate on details. The total drawing size is about 7 1/2" x 9", on Arches 140# hot press paper, with .5 mechanicals. (Troy if you read this...I trusted in what you said, and got these blacks -background- with 3-4 layers of 2B mechanical...amazing).



http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2006/70376-Liz_1_11_06_a_wc.jpg


and a close up of the working section.....
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/12-Jan-2006/70376-Liz_1_11_06_close_section_wc.jpg

[Troy Rochford]

I'm not big on celebrity portraits but this looks like a good start. Be careful about the hair - no matter what the color, you should work a range of values in there to keep from flattening it out. That iris looks really good. You might want to darken some of the lighter parts slightly, to accentuate the lighter area opposite the catchlight.

And those blacks need another layer!:)

[Troy Rochford]

Ray are you all set up in 101 so you can take the portrait class? I can't keep track of who's doing what these days lol

[SparrowHawk7]

Hi Ray ... I'm with Troy ... that iris is quite good. One thing I would suggest is that you leave lashes and most hair till the very last thing - or at least until you get the skin under it completed. The reason for this is that you have a lot more graphite to put down on the skin under it and doing that is going to blur/blend the hair lines. You can always put them back down, of course, but they might not be as crisp as you'd like after that. For my style, I also tend to lift at least the first two layers of graphite over all skin which would also lift the hair. But that's me ... you may prefer not to do that.

Ken

[obxbear]

Ken, you said "For my style, I also tend to lift at least the first two layers of graphite over all skin which would also lift the hair." Can you explain this "lifting" for me, Please.... Dragonshade, looking good... I'll definately be watching.....

[SparrowHawk7]

Oxbear,

My technique requires me to lay down a layer of graphite by circling. Then I change my hand position and do it again so it's a sort of circled crosshatch. The initial direction that I move my hand results in a bit of "grain" or noticable direction of movement which is important to help define planes. Next I use blutack to lift off just about all of the graphite and repeat the procedure including the lifting. That leaves me with a thin layer of graphite which I think of as a primer coat. To me, it's far easier to layer further graphite once the paper is lubricated for two reasons. First of all, the pencil slides on the base coat of graphite much easier and more smoothly. Secondly, further layers of graphite do not adhere as aggressively to the tooth of the paper once that tooth has a bit of graphite in it which enables me to build layers of tone more gradually till I reach the value I want. Sometimes I lift off later layers as well depending on how things are going.

Now I don't know of anyone else who applies their graphite this way, but I like the results I get doing it. Take a look at some of my recent finished drawings (I've not really even begun to work on skin texture in my recent Ringo WIP) and see what you think.

Don't mean to hijack anything here, Ray ... carry on ... :wave:

Ken

[dragonshade]

Troy.... Thanks for looking in and commenting (esp. because I know how much you LOVE celeb portraits ;) )...I learn so much from you, please chime in on ANYTHING. All the things you are saying are things I have thought of, but have no real resolution to. This is such a "face shot" there is really little hair, and what is there is black. I figured I should step away from this, and add some contrast/depth but wasn't sure. I know exactly what you mean about iris' (in general)...how the catchlight surrounding iris area is dark, and the opposite side usually very light. I tried to stay as close to the ref as I could, but I'll revisit as I think I see what you mean. Hey, that may a good topic for the class....how and when to artistically deviate from the ref. I'm signing up in 101 (been slacking...busy, and sick) this weekend for sure. How long do we have before the class begins?? Lol..I'm gonna be stuck like glue to ya on this class.

Another layer!!???!!!??!! :rolleyes: If you say so :D ;)

Ken...... Thanks to you too. Good info, I think that is a weak point of understanding for me. The "order" in which to do. What you are saying makes total sense, but I had not thought of it. I have noticed I lose the clarity of my lines, and have to go over them (which can cause lots more probs). I am going to keep a mental note of this, and try to work on it. I won't go in intentionally knowing I'll be lifting layers, but yes at times I will do it. PLEASE keep the ideas/suggests coming on anything you see.

obxbear.... Thanks, and thanks for looking in.

[obxbear]

Dragonshade, Thank you.... first for sharing your post, and a great start it is... I didn't mean to interupt your thread, but I felt the need to ask the question since Ken (Sparrowhawk) brought it up and I hope that anyone reading this that didn't know beforehand what he was refering to has a better understanding, I know I now do.... and thank you Ken for spelling it out for me..... You guys do great work and I hope to learn a lot from you all...... Thanks again.....

[JayD]

From reading above, I think I understand what you are doing with the skin, eyes etc...but I still wonder about the hair--she has really fine, fine hair and you are obviously sensitive to that and clearly show it. I, on the other hand, draw "Bear hair". What do you do to get such a soft and fine effect with the hair?

[dragonshade]

obxbear..... Most welcome for sharing the thread/drawing, and do not worry about asking Ken (or anyone) anything here. I likely gain as much as anyone on these great diversions of techniques and inputs. So much is gained by everyone in the discussion of wips like this, and great artists (like Troy, Jay, Ken, and others) can help, give tips, and guidance to all of us by using the piece as an example.

JayD.... Thanks so much for looking, and commenting. Actually I am still at the point where I am "fudging" hair lol. I have had an issue with it since my first drawing. I have improved a great deal since then, but have a l-o-n-g way to go. I'm hoping Troy covers this well in the coming class, and had thought to go through some of your older classes to find what you had ;). Bear hair huh lmao. I understand the concept of contrast in hair, and can pull it off some, thank you for the praise so far. What you see on the drawing at this point is where I started to "rough" in the hair, then stopped to started going section by section. I did this in my normal way of basically very close hatching. (The fine-ish flayed ends visible are from this "feathered" hatching). A lot of close darker strokes in the shadowed area, terminating in longer, lighter, much more sparse strokes into the highlight. Some "glazing" perhaps with a 2H, but never any blending. Rarely will I have a base grey coat under/before the hatching...I'll usually add this if needed, which tends to soften the look of the hair anyway (to me a good thing). Depending on what I want and what I've got...some highlight lifting with a kneadable (at least until I get some blu-tack). I have no idea if this right, just seemed natural to me. Because of the fineness, and soft focus of the visible hair in the reference it is going to be difficult when I revisit it with detail. Though this way of drawing is different. Seems as though I am forced to observe details much more closely, and then have the choice of rendering them or not (where normally I may have just missed them). I will try to use this in the hair to hopefully help with some good realistic hair rendering :).

I'll post a pic of that section of the ref....


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jan-2006/70376-liz_hair_close_color.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/14-Jan-2006/70376-liz_hair_close_bw.jpg

[dragonshade]

First update on Liz....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2006/70376-Liz_update_1_full.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2006/70376-Liz_update_1_close_WC.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2006/70376-Liz_update_1_close_b.jpg

[Troy Rochford]

Looking good man. I know you want to minimize skin texture since this is a woman, but be careful not to go too far to the other extreme. Right now the texture looks non-existent. Tonally it's looking good but it's not necessarily reading as "skin." Good job with the lower lash shadows, etc..

[AlisonBC]

Hair is looking much more realistic now :) Good job so far.

[SparrowHawk7]

Hi Ray ... coming along now. Be careful about leaving feature lines too sharp - like the shadows in the folds of the upper eyelid. If you smear/fade them a bit I think you'll like them a bit better. Even though you are a bit ahead of the game in putting the hair down, be aware of the ends. Right now things look a little too much like she just came away from a pair of shears - ends are straight and sharp. You're on the right path though. Good job.

Ken

[Edit] - incidentally, I use a click eraser for lifting hair and highlighting it. I don't think you'll find BluTack or other malleable erasers do very well for that.

[dragonshade]

Troy... Hey thanks :D coming from you (tremendously talented artist, and instructor) it means a great deal. I know what you mean about the skin (though I do love the tone I'm getting) I kept thinking "minimize texture"...but I guess I should say in the drawing itself (I looked closely at this) there is a good bit more texture to it than shows in the pic. I'll post an even closer one that it shows a little, Maybe you can help add a little to it...let me know after the close-up what you think. I am noticing this way of drawing really does make me focus on details...(eyelash shadow, etc.). Man I am looking to learn so much more from your photo-realism classes.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2006/70376-Liz_update_1_eye_close.jpg

Artstuff.... thanks for looking in, and following along.

Ken.... As always thank you for the input. I see what you mean on those lines (I was going so heavy because of the darks in the ref), I'll "soften" them a bit. What would you use? I'm guess a tortillian is about the only thing
I have sharp enough. The hair.....geeeesh it was fighting me. (Troy...yet another vote for cover hair in depth please!). I'm also gonna add a tiny section of the ref to show the "frayed" end I was trying to get close to. I have to rework the area....now just have to figure out how.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2006/70376-hair_sec.jpg

I'm assuming you sharpen the end Ken?? I was thinking to try this after reading about someone who did that with a clickable. Right now I'm trying to pull highlights with a kneadable...Blu-tack on order :rolleyes:

[Troy Rochford]

Ray if youre careful you can use the edge of a vinyl eraser or even a cut edge of a pink pearl eraser on the hair. Hair will be covered in my classes, but I keep telling you guys that I suck at drawing hair, so I don't know what you'll get out of it. Spontaneity is the biggest key for my "success" with that. I tend to be like Ken when it comes to hair, in that I don't follow any particular rules if I don't feel like it.

Ray you need to get enrolled in 101 if you havent already. Maybe you did, but we've had so many newcomers lately I can't keep track of who did and who didn't.

Your texture looks a lot better in the closeup, but remember - your viewer in normal circumstances is not going to be standing six inches away from your drawing surface, and shouldn't have to in order to see your skin texture. I'll post this again as a rough example of what you might want to shoot for (sorry about the hideous scan). This is only two layers in, but it's about as textured as I would have gone with it. The other layers would be just to build tone. This is very subtle from a normal viewing distance, but it CAN be seen just enough to read correctly as skin.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2006/38425-look8.jpg

[SparrowHawk7]

Ken.... As always thank you for the input. I see what you mean on those lines (I was going so heavy because of the darks in the ref), I'll "soften" them a bit. What would you use? I'm guess a tortillian is about the only thing I have sharp enough.
No no no ... use a pencil. If you gently expand the line with just a little pigment it will blur and soften. Be sure the pencil is dull and just rub extremely softly to put only a little pigment on the edges of the line to kill the hard, sharp edge. Tortillons have their uses but they are going to put everything they touch slightly out of focus - which will include any skin texture going on around that shadow. With something as focally important as an eye I would strongly recommend using a pencil as it won't take it out of focus the same way. (Hard to explain ...) But if you DO want something out of focus (an ear for instance), simply using a pencil will work better anyway, at least IMO - and I'm positive Troy will agree.

I'm assuming you sharpen the end Ken?? I was thinking to try this after reading about someone who did that with a clickable. Right now I'm trying to pull highlights with a kneadable...Blu-tack on order :rolleyes:
I use a clickable stick eraser for my hair. The idea is to get a very sharp edge on the side and use that for a fine erased line. You could get that by cutting off the end with a razorblade ... I scrub the eraser on scrap paper to get it flat. Some people use a chunk eraser and cut slices off for the very fine lines. I don't believe you are going to have any luck with a kneadable one - too soft. The same thing is true of BluTack ... BT is amazing for skin but I haven't found a good use for it with hair.

Here's a sample of the hair on my last couple ...see how the ends are varied in length? Also, don't forget the shadow they cast and the strays.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2006/61266-hair.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Jan-2006/61266-hair1.jpg
Hair is tricky ... but the easiest way to make it believable is to be sure the ends look "right". If you get that the viewer will probably fill in the rest of the hair in their mind's eye and you can get away with it.

Ken

[dragonshade]

Ken, and Troy Thank you guys for all the teaching, and helping.....all points taken.

Here is a quick update on Liz. the hair, and forehead finished. I'm dropping down to the eye next. Going to be working on this as I do "Jokerface" for the advanced portraiture class.


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/30-Jan-2006/70376-Liz_hair_done_wc.jpg

[SparrowHawk7]

The cast shadows look good on the forehead but watch the length of the hair - it looks like she just had it clipped - maybe she did. I went back to look at the ref section you posted but it doesn't show the ends. Are they really that flat and straight? Putting just a few strands longer would make it look a bit more realistic I would think. Also the curled hair above the eye might look better if it faded into the hair above it just a bit. Just suggestions for whatever they're worth. You're doing fine with this but I bet you slow down over the next few weeks with your jokerface taking center stage. :)

Ken

[Alison2]

Hi Ray,

Only just found this! :eek: But glad I did, it's looking great. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Love what you're doing with the hair and all the tips we're getting.

I've got just one question - sorry if I live in a cupboard and don't know enough celebrities, but I'm trying to get the reference in my head, Liz Who?!

Thanks!

Alison2:wave:

[Troy Rochford]

Hurley:)

[dragonshade]

Lol, yup, Thanks Troy ;).

Ken, no worries, never hold back....I learn a great deal from you. Actually for the hair section being "done"..the 'tips" don't really apply. I'll be going back to them as I bring the lower (eyebrow, eye) section up to meet them (the hair tips). A lot of what you see as terminating actually just go into deep shadow...so some aren't even seen. Others I'll final tweak once the tones are finished (in the areas they go into). Also I did (as you can see) vary from the ref in some parts (hopefuly not too far tho)...mainly out of frustration ;).

Alison2....Hey thanks for joining in, and watching along (ain't it great :D I've got 2 portrait MASTERS commenting, and helping...life is good ;) )

[Alison2]

Ah, Liz Hurley, gotcha! Thanks Troy!:D

Great going Ray!

Alison2:wave: