Questions about Matting and Framing

[Shari]

Framing pastels is so expensive and I feel I need someone to do it for me, so it is done right. What I am wondering now is:

1. Do you always buy an acid free rag mat for your pastels? Since there has to be a spacer between the art work and the mat, does it really matter if it is the best quality mat? The art work only touches the spacer, not the mat so I am wondering if I can save money on the matting part.

2. Do you double mat?

Thanks

[dlake]

Wow, I'm glad you asked that question. I was wondering the same recently. I'll be following this like you will.

[Bringer]

Hi Shari,

Why does is have to be a spacer between the art work and the mat ?
When you talk about a spacer, are you referring to those from frametek ?
Those are usualy used when one doesn't want a mat.
You say that the work touches the spacer, not the mat. Should I deduct that you put the spacer between the painting and the mat ?
You should also be aware that if you use anti-reflective glass (perfect view, not non-glare), the more distant from the glass, duller the colours will get.
On my pastel links - can't remember which month now - I have lots of stuff about framing.

Regards,

José

[bluefish]

Paper mats discolor in a very short time and distract from your art work. Spent the extra $5.00 or so and buy 100% rag mats - they hold up well over time.(there is a pronounced difference in the overall appearance of the artwork utilizing the rag mat). I've double matted my work for years but recently went to a single rag mat and found very little difference in the 'saleability' of the piece of art - I don't think the buying public cares whether it's one mat or two as long as the entire piece looks like 'gallery quality'. I do all my own framing - it's easy but time consuming! You need to use 'spacers' between your pastel piece and the mat, whether it's a single or double mat. That pastel dust can make a mat look terrible in no time at all - the spacer helps - not perfect but better than nothing!

[Trilby]

Do a search on framing. Over the last 4 or 5 months there have been several useful discussions.
Materials with wood pulp or lignin in them outgas over time so though the art work doesn't touch the mat it is exposed to the gassing. Rag mat is worth it. Spacers can be made from scrap matboard or foam core as well as the commercial products made of plastic.
Whether you double or triple or single mat is an aesthetic choice as to what style most enhances your work. I personally like the look of double mats so use them routinely. On occasion I will spring for the black core for the inner mat when I think that black line will add something. I think good matting and framing helps not only to protect the artwork but to enhance it and show it at its best..I use foamcore for the backing board. I do a lot of my framing myself to save money. With more than 50 pieces framed I couldn't afford $100 to $175 a pop. Framing myself with an occasional custum job I average $28 per framing. Framing doesn't have to be made into rocket science. It just requires some knowledge of techniques and materials, some tools and practice. There are some good books and videos available which are worth looking at even if you never frame yourself; you'll know what to ask of your framer. It does take a work space and time.
TJ

[David Patterson]

This info is from the Pastel Society that I belong to. I do my own matting, spacers, framing, etc..-it's not that tough once you get the hang of it. It's a lot to read, but it's very important if you want to do it right. Hope this helps:

* Don't brush or blow the surface to clean off the dust! Don't spray fixative without the artist's permission! Use regular glass only---unless specific conditions require otherwise (etched nonglare glass dulls and obscures the work, Plexiglas builds up "dust drawing" static electricity).
* Pastels require extra space between the glass and the painting. For best results, the thickness of a triple mat or more is recommended. We recommend that the bottom (third) mat be recessed 1/4 inch to create a "reveal," to catch pastel dust before it lodges between the glass and the outer mat. (See diagram). The "reveal" could be made with one or more thicknesses of mat board or 1/8 to 3/16 inch foam core board depending upon the depth of your frame and size of painting. If Plexiglas is being used because of shipping requirements, more "reveal" space is best. We recommend either a linen-wrapped 3/16 foam core mat board or triple mat board plus a 3/16 foam core reveal as being the best protection for your shipped work.
* Glass or Plexiglas should never touch the art work! A minimum of an 1/8 inch space between the glass and the painted image is required on small pieces and up to 1/4 inch for larger pieces. Even more space is required if Plexiglas is used in pieces being readied for shipment. Also, clean inside the surface of the Plexiglas with a non-static spray before assembly. (Please see warning above).
* Metal frames are best reserved for smaller pieces or those that won't be shipped. There is just enough "flex" in most metal frames to make them more susceptible to breakage. Wooden frames need to be of sufficient depth to accommodate the glass, mats, reveal, art work, mounting board, and backing.
* The surface upon which your art work is mounted should be acid free. DO NOT USE CARDBOARD!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Jan-2006/65479-sreveal.jpg


Hand brad only--- power brad or glazing point drivers create a jarring action that dislodges pigment and glazing points fall out too easily. Recessed space ("reveal") equivalent to the thickness of two or more mats recessed 1/4 inch behind the window of the bottom mat will be placed between the art work and the visible mats to create a well to catch any floating dust.

FRAMING FOR PRESENTATION

Never let a framer talk you into extra fancy cuts on mats or extra decorative frames. Not only are these not desirable for presenting original art work, but they are also very expensive. Extreme framing is usually appropriate only for posters, prints, mirrors, or to meet a specific client's needs. (Anytime the matting and the framing become the first thing the viewer/client comments about---it's too much!)

Sometimes in an effort to save money, artists are tempted to go in the opposite direction. Poorly constructed, badly marred frames and missing or poorly cut mats can also distract from an otherwise beautiful painting. Bad framing provides jurors and galleries and also potential buyers an easy excuse to reject your work.

It isn't just the inexperienced artist who makes these mistakes. Framing should not be an afterthought in the painting process. If you value your work and time, then you should project that pride to the viewer through careful framing presentation. Here is some advice based on several years of listening to gallery owners, jurors, and clients.

MATS: Obviously badly cut or dirty mats may disqualify the work. for nationally juried shows conservative matting is the rule for original art, but conservative or neutral doesn't necessarily must mean white, off-white, light tan, or light gray. Subtle coloring is sometimes called for. Be very leery of extremes such as black, dark values, or pure bright white (usually the value of the mat should not be lighter than the lightest value found within the painting). However, for your area gallery presentations, scout the field. Not all areas in the country prefer conservative presentations, so know your market! Linen wrap mats are almost always in good taste, but they are expensive unless you make them yourself (see demo on next page). When using multiple mats it is OK for the inner mat to be brighter or darker, but it shouldn't call attention to the mat. Fancy cut corners, drawings, and added interest items (i.e. feathers, etc.) are decorator techniques not meant for original art work.

FRAMES: One would think that artists should automatically know that poorly constructed and marred frames will result in their work being rejected. But maybe not, as these defects are often seen on otherwise beautiful work. Galleries can't sell badly framed work, and jurors are sensitive to this. Beyond this, understated frames are usually less expensive, and if the client wants something different it is less costly to change the frame for them. Extra wide frames on medium or small works can be too obvious, and will draw attention away from the painting. There is no universal opinion on wooden versus metal frames, but again, brightly colored frames may be distracting and narrow metal frames won't protect your work as well in shipping---especially if the piece is large.

GLASS: Be certain both sides are clean! Some galleries will not accept non- glare glass or non-glare Plexiglas, and since they re more expensive and prone to diffusing the image, why bother? If a client wants it, they will buy it. Be sure that the glass is large enough to fully fit into the frame and is not likely to pop out.

FINISHING: Wooden frames should always have a clean, increased paper dust cover on the back. Do not use paper bags! Metal frames should be backed with clean white, off-white mat board, or foam core. Screw eyes or hinged hangers should be of appropriate size to support the weight, and the hanging wire should be authentic picture hanging wire---not a plastic or fiber cord or slippery shop wire. The length of the hanging wire shouldn't be so long that it reaches the top of the frame, or so short that it can't be easily slipped over a wall hanger. Generally speaking the screw eyes should be placed about 1/4 of the way down from the top of the frame, and the extended center point of the wire should have just enough slack to place it easily over a wall hanger.

PROFESSIONAL QUALITY FRAMING

More and more galleries and exhibits are now requiring as a condition for acceptance, that art work be presented in "professional quality" framing and further require that materials used be archival/museum quality and/or acid free. You may ask, "What does this mean to me?" It may mean sales.

"Professional quality" framing means art work properly mounted (hinged with acid free tape), cleanly cut mats appropriately designed for the subject, and good-looking frames (no dings or scratches, and properly joined corners).

"Archival" and "Museum quality" are terms frequently used interchangeably to mean that only 100% rag, pH-balanced, acid free materials come in direct contact with the painting ground. This important requirement helps protect the paper against deterioration from gas-emitting materials found in paper products made from wood pulp (particularly cardboard), to preserve it for the greatest possible time. Products just defined as "Acid Free" alone are not actually 100% rag, pH balanced "Archival/Museum quality" in and of themselves. Most commonly used mat boards have an acid free backing attached to wood pulp cores which emit some paper-destroying gases.

The irony of all of this is that even though museums and galleries use the term "Archival" and "Museum quality" to hype the price and appeal of original art to potential buyers, ultra-violet light is more damaging, and most pastel papers now in popular use are not archival or even color-fast (not to mention wood frames). In a worst case scenario, it would take several hundred years to damage a painting using today's acid free materials.

If the gallery uses all three terms interchangeably, you should know that acid free is the least expensive method to use---so go with what you can afford or ask the gallery to define the terms since you now know that they do not mean the same thing.

[Deborah Secor]

Framing pastels is so expensive and I feel I need someone to do it for me, so it is done right. What I am wondering now is:

1. Do you always buy an acid free rag mat for your pastels? Since there has to be a spacer between the art work and the mat, does it really matter if it is the best quality mat? The art work only touches the spacer, not the mat so I am wondering if I can save money on the matting part.

2. Do you double mat?

Thanks

1. No, I don't always use rag mats, though I do when I can. For years I framed with plain old matboard because my paintings weren't yet worth the extra cost of that quality material. The art materials industry has done its best to convince artists, who are by and large an egotistical lot, that 'you deserve the best', meaning that your artwork will look better, sell better and last longer if you spend more money to frame it. Frankly, my dear, I don't always buy that! I think you need to balance ego and pocketbook sometimes, which may result in regular mats, backers, spacers, etc.

Once your work reaches the realm of the fine art gallery in a major market, and is selling at a respectable price per square inch, moving on to acid free, pH neutral and archival materials makes sense. Before then I always told my customer that I was framing as a means of packaging my pastels, and I expected them to replace the framing in a reasonable amount of time, but for now they could take it home and enjoy it for a little more reasonable cost. They bought the work and the framing with very little question, and some promptly replaced the mat and frame--but they could afford to do it at my prices!

Albert Handell was asked about using 'archival' materials (like Ersta sandpaper, back in the 80s, which is anything but archival) and I loved his reasoning. He said he had decided that for all intents and purposes he defined archival as, "My lifetime. After that the conservators will have to figure it out." I figure there are conservators all over the country slapping their foreheads at that, but it works for me!

2. If I don't use a spacer mat (the reveal mentioned above) below my mat, I double mat. It keeps the surface of the pastel far enough away from the back of the glass to keep it from migrating there and leaving a ghost.

Deborah

[bluefish]

I have to take exception to Deborah on this one! There is a BIG difference in mat quality but a small difference in mat cost. 'Blicks' Crescent regular surface matboard is $4.78 a sheet and Crescent Museum Grade Matboard is $10.50 a sheet. That's only a $5.00 difference on a painting that's going to sell for multiple hundreds of dollars and the Museum quality mat will look good long after I'm gone! If you are going to sell your work, mat it using professional qualitiy materials - the difference in your cost is trivial. Also, if you're cutting the mats yourself, IMHO, the rag mat are easier to cut!

[PeggyB]

Oh boy! talk about a ghost coming back to haunt you! David, I wrote most of what is in your sociey's information about 15 years ago. Although in general it has good advise, it desperately needs updating! However, that diagram (which I did not draw) is very useful to illustrate what is meant by "spacer" (reveal) for anyone who didn't otherwise understand. There are big differences in the pastels of today that make Deborah's advise more timely.

Depending upon the support I've used to paint on and the thickness of the pastel I've applied I may or may not use the "reveal" - spacer - that is mentioned. Sometimes I don't use any matboards either, but rather I place it directly into a frame that I've used a plastic "chanel spacer" to hold the glass away from the painting. However, in many areas of Europe they've been placing the glass directly on the surface of the pastel for ages, and it doesn't seem to be a problem. This is not necessarily less expensive because the frames I use in this case are wider and may be more expensive. Sometimes I use double mats, sometimes single mats. These days usually archival, but not always. I've always agreed with what Deborah wrote regarding Albert Handell's opinion. "let the conservator's worry about conservation" - or as another artist friend said, "Let the next generation worry about my art, I'm painting for me in my lifetime." I do however try to use uv screening glass because ultraviolet light is the most damaging element of all to both the pigments and paper.

Peggy

[PeggyB]

.... Also, if you're cutting the mats yourself, IMHO, the rag mat are easier to cut!

Well now I do have to agree with Bluefish on the ease of cutting a rag v regular mat. Also, the "windows" that are too small to use for other smaller mats make great supports for painting with oil pastels. That is a suggestion from Richard McDaniel, and I just did my first OP on the reverse side a scrap rag. I had a great time doing it, and you can see my attempt in the OP forum. I guess if one takes to conclusion that you've used archival Wallis paper, and that's no small expense, then one should not bulk at paying an extra $5 for rag mats. It has been a long time since I've had to buy any mats at retail ('member I worked in a framing gallery), so I'm not aware of current prices. I still have a whole box of varying nutural colored rag mats.

Peggy

[Bringer]

Hi again,

From the pastel links :

http://www.viratec.com/downloads/tv_cat.pdf
http://www.preservation.gc.ca/howto/grid_e.asp
http://www.masterframing.com/technicalinfo.html

Regards,

José

[bluefish]

Using uv screening glass is a really good idea as it removes 97% of the UV rays - but it is not readily available at the corner hardware store - normal window glass only removes 47% of the UF rays. And window glass imparts a green tint to your painting - except for the static problem, acrylic glazing is a more clear cover for your painting and provides good UV protection. The glass mfg. do made water white glass but again it's a special order item and more expensive.

[Bringer]

Hi Bluefish,

One cannot make omelets without eggs.
If one wants quality, one has to pay for it....that's life :-)

Regards,

José

[PeggyB]

Bluefish - now that my gallery/framer has closed after 26 years in business, I can buy the UV glass at the large JoAnn Fabrics and Crafts stores where they do framing. I suspect one could also get it from such places as Michaels or Hobby Lobby. It isn't as inexpensive as my old source, but as Jose says, you can't make an omelet, etc...

Peggy

[Deborah Secor]

Hmmm, well, my belief is that you don't necessarily improve the art with framing. You may compliment a good painting with a good frame, but unless your paintings are selling for "multiple hundreds of dollars" I suspect you'd be smart to frame using less expensive materials and let the quality and cost of the framing increase with the quality and value of the work...

Over the years of teaching beginning to intermediate pastelists I've seen some amazing things. How about a student who had taken 8 weeks of classes and arrived at the final class with a painting framed in a hand-wrapped silk mat, gold fillet, and hand-carved, imported gilded frame? She spent in the mulitple hundreds to have it framed and you can imagine the effect. Okay, that may be the exception (it is!) but I often think the framers are making a killing selling people expensive materials when the work doesn't warrant it.

Having said that I have to add that I encourage my master class students to frame with quality. They may move up to rag mats and UV glass, but I still don't think they have to spend an arm and a leg!

At my local Hobby Lobby one day I asked to buy a 32x40" rag mat to take home and cut myself. The price was $22.00! :eek: Needless to say, I used a regular mat that day... I usually buy from a wholesaler so I had no idea they would charge me that much!

Deborah

[PeggyB]

Oh my goodness Deborah - the expense of just one whole mat was $22 ? :eek: I think when I run out of my supply I will be trying to think ahead and order from an on line source where they are a lot less expensive. I already get many of my frames from various sources on line. So long as I keep the frame size no more than 24 X 30 most of them will assemble the frame without charge, thus saving myself one time consuming step.

[quote = Deborah] ... Hmmm, well, my belief is that you don't necessarily improve the art with framing. ...

True, but I think the line of thought here is as much protection of art as it is framing the art. Although that wasn't Shari's original question.

I agree - beginning/intermediate students don't need to spend the big bucks framing through a framer. (I've seen the same situation you have described, and when others comment on the framing before the painting you know there is something very wrong.) Neither do master class or professionals need to spend so much when they can learn to do it themselves without too much difficulty. It does take time, but when finished you know you've had complete control from start to finish. That being said, I long for the day when I win the lottery and can have a trusted framer do the work for me... LOL ... "trusted framer", that's going to be a challenge. It really isn't my favorite part of the whole process. What - someone said I have to buy the darn lotter tickets before I have a chance to win? Oh - guess that's not going to happen any time soon as I almost never remember to buy them. :rolleyes:

Peggy

[Deborah Secor]

Well, Peggy, don't freak out! I buy from a wholesaler and get my rags for about $8-9 each, but they're all the way across town and I was hoping to save a trip when I only needed ONE mat. I wonder even now if the helper-ette at Hobby Lobby was just ignorant. I got to thinking later that maybe she had figured out the price to cut a mat that size. :rolleyes:

Deborah

[PeggyB]

Hate to say this Deborah, but the price quoted for a 32 X 40 rag mat would be very much more than $22 retail so the "helper-ette" was most likely quoting their price for the uncut matboard. (love that title of the person that quoted you the price. So many times I've wondered just how "helpful" some retail persons really are.) Strange that I can remember some retail prices reanges, but not wholesale, and I haven't worked retail framing in over 7 years! LOL

I'm so glad you can buy wholesale!

Peggy

[Shari]

Well there certainly is a lot of information here. I love painting and abhorr framing. I am not going to invest in a mat cutter and all that goes with it, but around here it is at least $100 or more to frame a picture. I think this is why I work in other mediums a lot, when I would rather be doing pastels. I found a place on line called Graphikdimensions.com where you can upload your pic and try mats and frames with it. All you have to do is put it together. I wish pastels weren't so difficult, with the extra mat underneath.

Is there a difference between the glass you buy at the local glass store, and something called "framer's glass"? And where does one get "framer's glass"?

When you frame yourself, do you always put a paper backing over the back of the picture?

[PeggyB]

Well there certainly is a lot of information here. I love painting and abhorr framing. I am not going to invest in a mat cutter and all that goes with it, but around here it is at least $100 or more to frame a picture. I think this is why I work in other mediums a lot, when I would rather be doing pastels. I found a place on line called Graphikdimensions.com where you can upload your pic and try mats and frames with it. All you have to do is put it together. I wish pastels weren't so difficult, with the extra mat underneath.

I've seen the site you mention. There are others too such as American Frame (www.americanframe.com (http://www.americanframe.com/)) that offer similar services and you can see different frames. I've used American Frames, and their service is very good. As for the extra mat, well it doesn't have to actually be a "mat". Let's say your mat is 3" wide. You can cut strips of foam core or mat board that are 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 inches wide and use double backed tape to secure them firmly to the back of the mat/s thereby avoiding the need to actually cut another mat. It is a good way to use up scrapes.

Is there a difference between the glass you buy at the local glass store, and something called "framer's glass"? And where does one get "framer's glass"?

Yes! hardware store glass may have a rather "green" tinge to it. Framer's glass does not. Framer's glass comes from frame suppy stores which is often available only whole sale to framers. However, some framers will sell it to clients so you should inquire at the various frame stores in Ashland about their glass. I can get it at the local JoAnn Fabrics & Crafts for a relatively good price, but it is a very large store that does framing. The on line frame places don't sell glass - only plexi which I have bought when purchasing a frame to have on hand when it is necessary to ship a painting to a competiton that requires it for shipped work.

When you frame yourself, do you always put a paper backing over the back of the picture?

Yes, it is part of the professional finished job. I've actually heard a gallery owner one time criticize a painting that didn't have the paper backing because she wanted to display it on an easel in a promenent spot, but wouldn't because the back didn't look "professional". You can get some framing supplies from the on line framing stores. Such things as double backed tape and the dispenser, a professional paper cutter for the back of frames (not necessary, but useful), a brading tool and brads, etc.


I think I should give a framing workshop! One that would be useful to the artist interested in doing their own framing. :evil: Just kidding, but it would be easier than continuing to write about the subject... :) The Pasel Society of Oregon keeps mentioning it, but we've always been having too much fun painting when I get there to do that...

Peggy

[Shari]

This is such valuable information, thank you so much Peggy and everyone for all the help. I had a professional framer do one picture for me, and there was dust all over the glass inside because he laid the painting face down to put the paper backing on it, how does one avoid that? Peggy, please teach a workshop and I will come take it.

[Bringer]

Hi,

Just wanted to say that you are giving prices of rag mats, but you're not specifying the number of plies (thickness).
I've framed a 12 x 9 inches painting with more or less two 2 inches mats around it (the one behind the other has a bigger window to form a box so that the dust may fall behind the front mat) for more or less 40 dollars.
That is : 2 mats, frame (simple greenish blue wood) and anti-reflective glass.
The mats are not rag as far as I think, but they are acid free.
Of course that framing can be costy if one chooses better materials or a certain frame.
I will also tell you that while a matt cutter's head can cost 25 dollars there in USA, here in Portugal they're extremelly dificult to get and will cost around 100 dollars. And that's just the head.

Kind regards,

José

[scall0way]

Well I see that the few pictures I have framed I have done completely wrong, and still don't have a good grasp on the whole framing thing. I've been painting in standard sizes lately as I want to be able to get inexpensive pre-cut mats, and inexpensive frames. I've been working in the 11x14 size as I can get pre-cut acid-free double mats with a 10 1/2 x 13 1/2 opening for about $4-6 dollars at A.C. Moore, and inexpensive frames too.

But I have never used any sort of spacer, and never quite have grassed the concept of the spacer. I've just used a double mat to keep the pastel away from the glass, but attached the pastel directly to the matboard. And I never attached any sort of backing to the back of my pastel. It never even occurred to me that I should do something like that. And I don't even know how it would be attached? Is is glued on? Taped with double-sided tape?

I thought I was doing good using acid-free double mats but I see that is just the tip of the iceberg and I'm still pretty clueless about the whole process.

[Tom Christopher]

hi Shari--I do my own matting/framing--I got so tired of the inflated prices ,i took a class and bought a mat cutter-this was about 10 years ago--I buy regular mat board and frames from Hobby lobby at the monthly 1/2 price sale--total (mat - frame- glass) runs about $30-$35--tom

[PeggyB]

Way to go Tom! Half price sales are the best... It isn't really all that hard once you've broken your first piece of 24 X 30 glass and overcut a few mats - not to mention the hundreds of paper cuts on your fingers! Honestly, I'd rather have a glass cut than a paper cut. They hurt less and heal faster.

Shari, if I get to Roseburg - well, when I get to Roseburg, I'll try harder to give that framing class. I usually drive down each late spring or summer - after the passes have cleared. This year I might have to wait until I get a new car - which is sometime this summer if not before depending upon when we sell some land in Oklahoma. Anyone in the market for 8 acreas south of OKC - two acrea of which are on a private air strip?! The six acrea are dividable into two acra lots. It's beautiful property with good neighbors, but we decided we aren't going to retire to that area afterall - all the "Grands" are here! :)

Peggy

PS I can show you how to use those overcut mats too so there isn't any wasted materials. Linen wrapped mats - that's the "secret". Sorry, I can't glue the glass back together in any manner that would be satisfactory.:D

[Shari]

Tom,

If I thought I will ever be good enough that I would need to frame a lot of pastels, I would save up and buy the mat cutter! That may be on my wish list soon, but I would rather paint than frame! And this is not my only medium by a longshot. Peggy - please do let me know when you come to Roseburg and teach, I will definitely come and summer would be just great! Its only a two hour trip for me. I am thinking of taking a Susan Ogilvie workshop in Bend this summer also.

[PeggyB]

Shari, you'll love Susan's workshop. Hope you do go.

Peggy

[bluefish]

Shari:

You have a place right 'around' the corner from you that can supply all your framing needs - Documounts in Eugene, Ore. Try their web - and I have absolutely not affiliation with them - just trying to help!

[Shari]

Shari:

You have a place right 'around' the corner from you that can supply all your framing needs - Documounts in Eugene, Ore. Try their web - and I have absolutely not affiliation with them - just trying to help!


I didn't know they were in Eugene, I went to their place once in Portland. They are not inexpensive though.

[bluefish]

Shari:

Please forgive me but they used to be located @3705 west 1st Ave in Eugene and were a 'super' store to deal with - I could purchase cut mats from them cheaper than I could buy the mat board wholesale for but unfortunately they got bought out and the prices escalated BIG time! They are now located in Portland and I recently received a catolog that contained 'lower prices throughout'. I can still do it cheaper - but they @ Eugene did very nice work. They used to supply RISING mat board which, IMHO is superior to all other mat boards.