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Troy Rochford
11-02-2005, 03:18 AM
Basic 101: Class 29

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-29b.jpg



This week we begin to explore pen and ink - begin being the operative word. Needless to say, this is a very broad subject that could never be adequately covered in a single lesson, but we will cover enough in this installment to give you something to work with as you familiarize yourself with the medium. This class will serve as more of an experimental study. The object here is to get comfortable with the medium, and have fun while you are doing it. We will progressively get into more and more specifics in future classes.

A quick note: Leading up to this class, I asked that each of you come up with at least one rapidograph or comparable technical pen (*a good starting nib size would be .30), and hot press illustration board or smooth bristol. These things are not vitally important for this particular lesson, but they WILL be in future lessons, so if you have not done this, please make an effort to do so. The items that I suggested will yield far better results and allow you and your peers to better gauge your progress with this medium.

Now, to begin, I want you guys to read the following short article by Murray. This will cover some of the preliminaries that need to be addressed for the benefit of newcomers to pen and ink. It also fits in quite nicely with our tree/foliage theme!

Murray's Introduction to P&I (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/3698/194/)

For simplicity's sake, the scope of this class is being limited to trees and foliage, as that seems like a legitimate enough exercise to get yourselves acquainted with the medium. For this, I am including a link to the first 2 installments of a series of highly detailed step-by-step foliage tutorials by our own Dave Sullivan (artistdbs). For those who don't know, Dave is our undisputed heavyweight champion of tree/foliage rendering in pen and ink, and I can't thank him enough for putting these tutorials together.

In addition to Dave's tutorials, which I want to be the primary focus of this class, I also want you guys to be aware of and consider the uses of various other techniques for rendering these subjects. Some are more useful than others, and in a practical sense, the technique you opt for is ultimately your decision, and will be based on your own sense of priorities and considerations. There are as many different techniques as there are artists, but I will run through a few here that I personally use often. I will caution you in advance, however: my demos here were prepared in about a half hour with no references, so they aren't pretty. The important thing is that you focus on the technique itself for each one, and consider when/where/if you might want to incorporate it into your work.

Continuous Line Scribble:

As you will see later, this is essentially the basis of what has evolved into Dave's highly stylized, personalized method of creating foliage. In most cases, time permitting, I would certainly recommend using Dave's revamped interpretation of this method for maximum results. However, this basic method still does have its merits, even in conjunction with Dave's method. For one, it would be a time saver in the even that you were doing a piece that featured relatively similar trees, but some of them in the distant background. The background trees could be done using this method in a matter of minutes, and would still be consistent in a broad sense with foreground trees rendered using Dave's approach. The same applies for any situation where the trees are in soft focus and there is not such need for precision and high detail.

This technique is aptly named. You basically put the pen down and loosely scribble within your general outline of the tree or foliage shape to establish a base tone. You then layer until you get your tonality how you want it. The important thing to remember is that for best results you DO want to do a bit of a controlled scribble. Unless you are rendering a subject that requires it texturally, you want to avoid scribble lines that bend back on themselves at sharp angles, opting instead to do a series of repetitive figure "S" shapes and so forth. You also will want to make an effort to pay attention to the spacing of your scribble lines. It sounds insane, but there should be some logic to it, so you don't end up with areas that look splotchy and overworked. In other words, as you are scribbling around, if you see big white spaces that you have missed, run some scribbles through them to even out the tone, while at the same time making sure not to overwork your designated highlight areas. These same principles of light and shadow and even tonality apply with Dave's method-and for that matter, ALL of them, and you will learn more about that in his tutorials.

Here's a quick generic tree example using this method.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-treescrib1.jpg

And a closeup:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-treescrib2.jpg

I personally also have found this scribble method useful for depicting small shrubs with flowers or lighter foliage, etc... It is essentially the same technique as above, only looser and more open, with the occasional larger shapes blocked in to represent clumps of foliage, flowers, or whatever is called for. In this example, I also threw in some areas of parallel line hatching just to create some shadow and depth to suggest a pathway into the little bush for the eye to follow, rather than having the eye be stopped by dense, heavy foliage.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-bushscribble1.jpg

And a closeup:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-bushscribble2.jpg

Crosshatch

This technique is extremely effective for creating dense foliage, massive trees with a wide range of values, etc.. but it should be noted that this technique is best served for soft focus or background objects. Stylistically this is quite loose, and the rigid linear nature of the technique does not lend itself well to realistic rendering of trees/foliage, unless you resort to very very fine crosshatching. This method is perfectly acceptable though if the overall feel of your piece is loose and not so much in the way of realism or extremely high detail.

Ex:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-treecrosshatch1.jpg

And a closeup:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-treecrosshatch2.jpg

Parallel Line

The final example I will include here is parallel line, because I think we've covered quite enough for one class. Parallel line is a useful technique to represent distant background trees. Unless you have an overall very loose dynamic with your piece, you probably should steer clear of this technique for trees in any area other than bg or extremely soft focus midground stuff. Drawing trees this way is very easy, but as you can see in my example, you do want to put a little bit of thought into it! My apologies for the bad example, but I trust that you all can figure this one out for yourselves!!!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-treeparallel1.jpg

I intended to include stippling here, but I am leaving it out because I think this is a technique that deserves to be the focus of an entire class by itself. Stay tuned for that one! Meanwhile, enjoy my little stipple tree!;)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/38425-treestipple1.jpg

And finally, here is Dave's tutorial. Read this thoroughly. He explains things much more specifically than the sweeping way I just went about things. Put his tutorial and my rambling together, and you should have a pretty good idea of what to work on from there!

Tutorial by the Mighty Dave! (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304494)

Assignment:

Draw some trees/foliage! Post your references - and yes I DO want you drawing from references, please. The specific technique you choose to employ is up to you.

Judi1957
11-02-2005, 05:57 AM
Troy-
Nice trees! I especially love the first one! The stipple is sweet.
Well written and Murray's and Daves articles were excellant as well.
Maybe I will do this on drafting mylar-lol-then I can erase! j/k
4:18 AM- guess this was a really low traffic time! :rolleyes: :p
Off to the RIL......

cmwynn
11-02-2005, 07:21 AM
This looks like fun. Continuous scribble is a dressed up name for what I do a lot anyway. I am glad to get the assignment, will be away next week and will be able to do this in any spare time.

Fireman's kid
11-02-2005, 08:22 AM
Troy, thanks for the good explanation of the various techniques. Must admit I am a bit hesitant. I don't consider random objects (like masses of leaves) to be my strength. You make it look easy, but I'm willing to bet it's not! :D I will give it a go though after I read the links you provided.

Mary Woodul
11-02-2005, 08:23 AM
Troy, it was well worth the wait for the class. I always enjoy your write ups so much and the infromation is first class. I have to go to the ranch today but I will take a pad and practice the scribbling to feel the pen, before tackling the tree. See you all this evening! :wave:

Cathie Jones
11-02-2005, 09:18 AM
:clap: Good job, Troy!

Wait . . . I have a question . . .

How would you do a flowering bush or tree?

phoebecat
11-02-2005, 11:09 AM
Troy,

The lesson was worth the wait. I'm looking forward to doing some scribbling!


Anne

Cathie Jones
11-02-2005, 01:32 PM
Wait . . . I have a question . . .

How would you do a flowering bush or tree?

Never mind . . . I found it. :o

mothsailor
11-02-2005, 03:12 PM
Looking forward to this; I've already done the exercises in Dave's tutorials which I found very, very helpful too. Now to try some more!

Fozbot
11-02-2005, 03:26 PM
Troy, did you draw the 'Toon' at the beginning of your opening post?! if you did you missed a calling! that's great!

SILKNSATIN
11-02-2005, 04:47 PM
Hi all. :wave:
I'm gunna find the time to go through all this.Things are slowing down a bit here and hope I can join in the fun.

Troy Rochford
11-02-2005, 06:01 PM
Judi- Okay smartypants - you know I was working on the top cartoon at midnight and then writing up the class. It took three hours to get my slow system to upload all the pics, etc. It was actually 3:18a.m. when I got this posted (the time hasnt been set back on WC), so there!;)

Glad you guys like the class. I look forward to your progress.

Judi1957
11-02-2005, 06:33 PM
Troy, Ohhh so sorry Sir! :p I really did like the cartoon!
Well done!!!!
OK then 3:18 then. :rolleyes: :D

Dave and Bon! So happy you are back!!!!

Cathie Jones
11-02-2005, 07:44 PM
Oh yeah, the cartoon. I like it! Glad to see you finally got that self-portrait done!! :evil:

Troy Rochford
11-02-2005, 07:57 PM
CJ I am looking forward to your depiction of orange in that life jacket in b/w. Should be a challenge!

Cathie Jones
11-02-2005, 08:25 PM
While I'm working on that orange life jacketed tree, here's what I did with (to?) Dave's lesson bushes.

And I'm looking forward to finding out how lots of things are done with pen & ink . . . shadows, for example. And snow. :confused:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/23460-Basic_29_Daves_bushes.sm.jpg

IslanderNL
11-02-2005, 08:59 PM
Great intro into P & I, I think I'll come play as well. I'd previously done Dave's 'bush scribble' and it morphed into something else...I'll post it tomorrow.

I just did the last two WDTs in P & I, do they count?? :)

Mary Woodul
11-02-2005, 09:00 PM
CJ, those bushes surely look great. Pen & Ink agrees with you.

Troy, we don't have very pretty trees down here, except for evergreens and but I wanted something different. This is a mezquite tree. I don't know if this will do or if I should look in the RIL instead. I certainly want to do more than one. :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/43096-tree_image.jpg

Anita Murphy
11-02-2005, 09:21 PM
CJ - great stuff!!! These are wonderful little bushes!

Cathie Jones
11-02-2005, 09:33 PM
Thanks Mary and Anita! Mary, I like that tree. And there are lots of good ones in the RIL, too.

Jeanette, please post your WDTs.

IslanderNL
11-02-2005, 09:43 PM
Well the first P & I isn't a tree or a bush, but there is a little foliage in the bottom right.

This week's WTD is much more foliage-ific :D

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/67422-steps_small.JPG

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Nov-2005/67422-dedhamsmall.jpg

artdude
11-02-2005, 09:44 PM
:clap: GREAT class Troy!! :clap:

It will be interesting to see how you all do! :wink2:

NO ink erasers allowed!!....LOL :cat:


Murray :cool:
--------------------
--------------------

Cathie Jones
11-02-2005, 10:36 PM
No erasers! :eek: how about White-Out???:evil:

Jeanette, those P&I drawings are awesome! :clap: Did you use the scribble method for the trees?

IslanderNL
11-03-2005, 03:29 AM
Thanks CJ, and yes the scribble method works beautifully on all the foliage.

mhimeswc
11-03-2005, 07:42 AM
This looks like it's going to be a fun class. I've always wanted to learn pen and ink, and I have a lot of trees around for reference.

I'm sorry that time constraints and procrastinating (lack of motivation) made me miss the last class, but I will definitely be scribbling some trees this week.

Michelle

IslanderNL
11-03-2005, 10:49 AM
As promised, the morphed bush and then to make up for it, a tree. Yes I know, not from a reference, but I'll do that later.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2005/67422-morph.JPG http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2005/67422-tree_PI.JPG

Judi1957
11-03-2005, 12:28 PM
Michelle! Welcome back!!!! :clap: :clap:

CJ-those are great bushes-very natural looking as in shape. I do think they look very much like Dave's only not as much a sunny day as his. :clap:

Jeanette-Love the ink of the steps as well as the trees.
LOL-- I love the morphing!!!!

Mary-That tree is wonderful! I will surf the RIL too.

Troy Rochford
11-03-2005, 01:40 PM
CJ and Jeanette - I'd like to see some attempts where you took more time and concentrated on your value transitions, etc.. We've got two weeks! SLOW DOWN!!!!

Cathie Jones
11-03-2005, 02:46 PM
CJ and Jeanette - I'd like to see some attempts where you took more time and concentrated on your value transitions, etc.. We've got two weeks! SLOW DOWN!!!!

I'll get there, Troy. Just started a new one - a bonsai - and I'm trying to figure out how to get lighter/more subtle shadings with dense foliage. So far, I'm not sure it's possible!

DBSullivan
11-03-2005, 03:13 PM
Troy - What a great class! It's nice to see the folks here giving ink a try. I really enjoy seeing the varied results. If there's anything I can do to help out.. just give me a hollar! (btw - Thanks for the kind words :) )

Jeanette - I love your morphed bush! :clap: Now, that's creativity! You really achieved some nice textures in that!

Cathie - great job on those bushes! RE:"trying to figure out how to get lighter/more subtle shadings with dense foliage. So far, I'm not sure it's possible!" Ah yes, my dear.. it is indeed possible. Just stick with it, and as Troy said.. slow down. Think of this like cooking a stew.. take your time and simmer it slowly. We all know what happens if you turn the heat all the way up and try to get it done quicker! ;)

Troy Rochford
11-03-2005, 03:13 PM
I think a bonsai tree in a life jacket will be very cute!:) I can't wait to see!

Cathie Jones
11-03-2005, 03:37 PM
Cathie - great job on those bushes! RE:"trying to figure out how to get lighter/more subtle shadings with dense foliage. So far, I'm not sure it's possible!" Ah yes, my dear.. it is indeed possible. Just stick with it, and as Troy said.. slow down. Think of this like cooking a stew.. take your time and simmer it slowly. We all know what happens if you turn the heat all the way up and try to get it done quicker! ;)

Thanks, Dave. Now you know why I don't cook stew!!! Looking forward to seeing your tree instructions in the P&I forum!

Cathie Jones
11-03-2005, 05:33 PM
Here are my ref (from the RIL by Cosme D Churruca - thank you!) and a practice piece. See what I mean about the light stuff? This looks like a type of spruce, with straight 'needles' in star-type clusters. There's no white space, and other than the shadows it's light. I don't seem to be able to give the impression of the light toned fullness. I'm having trouble articulating here . . . :rolleyes: . . . so I'll just show you what I mean. Any suggestions (preferably with visual aids!)?

IslanderNL
11-03-2005, 05:44 PM
Yes boss. I'm finding the perfect reference tonight then I'll be sooooooooo slooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww, you'll be wishing you never mentioned it. :)

IslanderNL
11-03-2005, 05:47 PM
CJ, I think that drawing will come together as you create the darks in this. I think it looks good so far. The light or darks only come out with contrasting tone next to them.

CatEyes
11-03-2005, 05:56 PM
CJ: Nice Bushes. :)
Jeanette: You did great on the WDT's!!!

Judi1957
11-03-2005, 06:06 PM
CJ-You are just doing so great!!! Love the bonsai! Maybe if you used a smaller tipped pen for the highlighted areas and do the needles a less dense in that area. Really just guessing.

Here is my lunchtime effort. I missed the boat on the sunlit area, not as light as I would like it. Will do some more of this one-talking more care. Doesn't help that it is blurry either. :rolleyes:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2005/37258-bush.jpg

CatEyes
11-03-2005, 06:09 PM
It looks great Judi!!! Not blurry at all. I can see a lighter value on the right side of it.

I still need to find a reference.

Judi1957
11-03-2005, 06:18 PM
TY Tia,
Not blurry-I guess I need to find my glasses.

Mary Woodul
11-03-2005, 06:29 PM
CJ your bonsai is looking so good. You will finish that one very soon

Jeanette, I know you will come up with something spectacular.

Judi, your is looking so good also.

I'm sorry I haven't worked but I am trying to straighten out a problem with an email I got that sent out invitations to membership of something called Hi5 to all on my hotmail list. If you get anything like that from me, I did not send it and please delete it. I'm sorry about it if you did! : :o

Troy Rochford
11-03-2005, 06:37 PM
Mary I got that email and it blew up my computer and burned down the guest room in my home. As soon as I get out of the hospital, I'll email you back and let you know how things are going.

Guys, if you do Dave's exercise with the bushes, please post them here AND cross-post in Dave's thread in the pen and ink forum. Dave is also going to take part in this thread, giving feedback on those bushes, etc..

Thanks!

Judi1957
11-03-2005, 06:39 PM
Mary-My company wanted your name and address :evil: :wink2:

Mary Woodul
11-03-2005, 06:45 PM
Mary-My company wanted your name and address :evil: :wink2:

I guess it is a good thing we don't live in the same country! :D :p You can't imagine the people it went to. :crying:

Mary Woodul
11-03-2005, 06:47 PM
Mary I got that email and it blew up my computer and burned down the guest room in my home. As soon as I get out of the hospital, I'll email you back and let you know how things are going.

Just don't send me the bill Troy!!!! :evil:

Judi1957
11-03-2005, 06:51 PM
Mary-there are worst things. I would probably feel the same way-but really no harm.
Hey-maybe you will get to talk to a million new people! :D

Cathie Jones
11-03-2005, 07:09 PM
Mary, I think my spam filter must have caught it. I'll go look . . . I could use a new guest room!!

Okay, here we go again. Just as I posted the last practice the UPS guy showed up with my Rapidograph pens. What a difference - at least in using them, I don't know that it looks much better.

Sooooo . . the ref again because the thread grew . . . and a practice page: top, scribble technique only with .30 Rapidograph; middle, what I posted before, scribble & straight stuff for needles, .30 Micron (of which I will have several for sale now!); bottom, scribble and straight stuff for needles, .30 Rapidograph.

Which one - if any - do you think best represents the little tree that I'm beginning to hate . . .

(BTW - of all the techniques we've learned and practiced, the scribble is the most relaxing - puts you right into the zone!)

mhimeswc
11-03-2005, 08:24 PM
I think all three look really good, CJ. I probably would have just gone with the scribbles (taking the assignment instructions literally), but I think I like the bottom one with the scribbles and straight stuff best. Your bonsai is going to be awesome.

Michelle

Judi1957
11-03-2005, 08:39 PM
Hey CJ-
Like Michelle said-all of them are great-but like her I am partial to the bottom one. It's needles look softer like the ref's needles. I think if you punch up your darks there-on the underside-you will have it!!
Ahhh-don't ya just the the men in brown!!! :clap: :D

Troy Rochford
11-03-2005, 08:50 PM
Judi you love men wallowing around in feces? That's disgusting. Oh, you mean UPS workers? Oh okay... I get it.;)

Cathie Jones
11-03-2005, 08:55 PM
Troy - I'm waiting for your opinion. :rolleyes:

Thank you, Judi and Michelle. I think I like that one best, too. But I'll wait to hear from the boss before I go any further.

IslanderNL
11-03-2005, 09:06 PM
CJ, my eye keeps going back to the middle drawing here, but the bottom one does have a softer effect too. I think either of them would work well in the drawing.

I've browsed trees til I'm seeing green here tonight! I think I've finally decided on this one. Twins by Geoff from the reference library. Thanks Geoff! I'll make a start on it tomorrow, as I have guests tonight and a bottle of wine is beckoning me...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Nov-2005/67422-twins_small.gif

Troy Rochford
11-03-2005, 09:34 PM
CJ the last one looks best overall to me.

Cathie Jones
11-03-2005, 09:37 PM
Jeanette, I almost chose that one, too. It has character!

Troy - which one is "last?" Top or bottom?

Troy Rochford
11-03-2005, 09:57 PM
the one on the bottom cj. Dont be difficult. And where is the damn life jacket? hmmmm?;)

Cathie Jones
11-03-2005, 10:17 PM
Thank you Troy. I can't find the life jacket . . . I think it must have burned in that pesky house fire . . .

IslanderNL
11-04-2005, 07:46 AM
Helpfully providing another lifejacket....:evil: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Nov-2005/67422-lifejacket.gif

SILKNSATIN
11-04-2005, 08:14 AM
Neat ink work you guys.
Awesome Cj
Thought i'd try the straight line.Im not a landscape person. :mad:
Ill try the circle tree next.Ink and me just don't get along. :p :D

Cathie Jones
11-04-2005, 10:05 AM
Bon, I think you'll like the scribble . . . give it a try!

Jeanette . . . um . . . thanks for the life jacket. :cool: Unfortunately, the coyote who lives in the field below us ran through and grabbed it out of my hands just as I was about to put it on. Darn! :evil: :angel:

CatEyes
11-04-2005, 01:17 PM
I think you are doing very well CJ, the last one looks like a good choice.

Nice pick Jeanette. I saw that while browsing myself... I found one of Judi's I may use...:)

Here's my practice. I don't have the micro pen or the correct paper yet, but I'll get them soon.

I used the PITT S pen and a Pilot calligraphy pen

Troy Rochford
11-04-2005, 01:28 PM
Tia the pitt bushes look much better. Be careful not to overwork things, though. Remember how spheres are shaded from earlier lessons on the principles of light and shadow. In bushes and trees, there are variables of course due to their irregular nature, but there should still be an overall adherence to the same principles of light/shadow. Your light source is in the upper right. The overall tonality of the bushes should get darker as it moves away from the light source. Where the bush meets the ground should be your darkest area. Be careful not to make it just a big mass of the same dark value, with just a sliver of light in the upper right. That applies to everyone Tia, not just you. I'm just adding my comments here as they come to me!

Happy shopping for pens!

yabby
11-04-2005, 02:50 PM
is it a tree? is it a bush? does it count?
ref pic from RIL, thanks to Camelia sinensis :music:

this is more stipple than scribble ....:o so I must have another go, to stick to the assignment :) I already found a ref pic of a big, big tree...:D

Troy, please let the others find the P problem by themselves :)


Around 10X20 cm - Canson - 0,5 black ink felt pen micropoint

Anita Murphy
11-04-2005, 02:56 PM
CJ - I chose that pic too - along with others that I can't do as my pen has seized to function! Think you have a real knack for this.

Jeanette - superb topiary - you can have fun with those!!! We have tons of topiarised (is there such a word) trees here.

I'm lurking guys and gals - one of these days I might get my pen to work. Shhhhh don't tell the boss!

CatEyes
11-04-2005, 03:49 PM
Thank you Troy. I will incorperate that in my final piece.

Here is some more playing around...I used a ball point pen and lined paper because I was in the car waiting for my daughter to get out of school.

Judi1957
11-04-2005, 04:58 PM
Hi All! :wave:

TGIF!!! :clap: :clap:
Added two bushes to the original one from yesterday. These are done w/ the micron pens. Going to do the exercise again w/ the rapidiographs. Just for giggles.

CatEyes
11-04-2005, 05:03 PM
Nicely done Judi!!!

Troy Rochford
11-04-2005, 05:20 PM
FYI people - I actually deigned to enter Michael's today to get matboard, and since they have recently moved into a larger building, I decided to take a look around. I discovered that they have resumed carrying a lot of art supplies, so maybe there is hope for them yet. Among the things I noticed is that they once again carry koh-i-noor rapidographs. They have a seven pen set (.13, .18, .25, .30, .35, .50, and .60) for 99 bucks, which is a pretty remarkable deal based on what I've seen on line. Those of you who are interested and have the money to look into this may want to do so.

Anita I can't and won't force you to participate in this class, and if you feel the need to hide the fact that you're on line, that's none of my biz. So no need to worry;)

Anita Murphy
11-04-2005, 05:51 PM
Anita I can't and won't force you to participate in this class, and if you feel the need to hide the fact that you're on line, that's none of my biz.
WO Guess that told me .............backing out of the class quickly!!!

Cathie Jones
11-04-2005, 05:51 PM
Luckily, my Michael's doesn't carry the Koh-I-Noor Rapidograph pens, just Microns. It's lucky because I got the Rapidograph 7-pen set from artsuppliesonline.com http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/catalog.cfm?cata_id=1819 for $52. Even paying for 3-day delivery it was a bargain. I've bought lots of stuff from them and they've never disappointed me.

Good job, Judi!!! Good practice, Tia. Fun, isn't it??

Troy Rochford
11-04-2005, 06:05 PM
Anita my comment was in direct reply to your little statement about being in lurk mode and how no one was supposed to tell me about it. All I'm saying is you are being silly. Lurk all you want, and either post work or don't.:)

Troy Rochford
11-04-2005, 06:06 PM
CJ that is a wonderful deal on sets - why didn't you make that info public????????

Cathie Jones
11-04-2005, 06:14 PM
CJ that is a wonderful deal on sets - why didn't you make that info public????????

I've broadcast the news about bargains at artsuppliesonline.com in several threads, including your initial thread on buying the pens. I think JayD has mentioned shopping there, too. You didn't take notes??? :cool:

mothsailor
11-04-2005, 06:20 PM
I thought I'd post the bushes I did for Dave's tutorial in P&I. I'm working on a tree, but it's a slow process!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Nov-2005/52179-folliage2layer4.jpg

Cathie Jones
11-04-2005, 06:21 PM
Dave! Hi . . . we've missed you!!!

It is a slow process, but I like it. Helps that I like trees, too!!

Troy Rochford
11-04-2005, 06:23 PM
Nice work Dave! Btw, Dave and I are doing this jointly for the 101 class, so please continue to post your work in this thread also, even if they are strictly the things assigned by Dave.

CJ - I didn't realize you posted that in the thread about buying pens. My humble apologies:)

CatEyes
11-04-2005, 06:31 PM
Nice work Dave!!!

Yabby: I missed yours earlier...sorry for that. It came out nicely!!

Cathie Jones
11-04-2005, 06:38 PM
No prob, Troy. Just write it down this time . . . there may be a quiz at the end of the class. :wink2:

artdude
11-04-2005, 06:45 PM
GREAT work everyone!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Nice to see some of you venturing into the unforgiving world of ink art!! LOL

Just remember as Troy mentioned earlier....you NEED light to show dark and dark to show light!





Murray :cool:
-------------
-------------

Mary Woodul
11-04-2005, 07:02 PM
Sorry not to comment individually but I have been answering suits for blowing up everybodies computers. :evil:

CJ, Jeanette, Judi, Bon, Tia, Yabby and Dave you all have been working very nicely.

Troy, I know I need at least two more layers of this and I have to establish my values, but I don't know what to do to the trunk or how to work it. So I'll post what I have so far. :)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Nov-2005/43096-arbol_1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/04-Nov-2005/43096-tree_image.jpg

JayD
11-04-2005, 07:42 PM
Mary and everybody--great work you are doing here!

Fireman's kid
11-04-2005, 08:08 PM
Hi everybody! :wave: I see some great ink work happening here!

CJ - you were quick out of the gate this week. I guess that's what retirement does for you. :) Like your three little bushes, nice light area between them. Can't wait to see the Bonsai. I bet it is going to be great.

Jeanette - I really like your WDTs, especially the stone stairs. Looks like you got some good practice in before this class started. Lucky girl! Also the morphed bushes are very cute and imaginative.

Judi - nice job on your three bushes. You really got the shading down. Now that I think about it, I believe you had some ink practice before this class too. Didn't you do the drawing of your grandkids next to the waterfall in ink? Another lucky girl who had a chance to banish her fear of ink before this week. :D

Hi Bon! Nice to see you back in 101. You said you're not a landscape person, but if it's the right landscape you could always hide a snake in it. :D

Tia - nice work on the bushes with the tools you have. On the lined paper, it looks like you lost your highlight a bit. Enjoy your shopping trip. :)

Yabby - really nice ink work! The tree and shadow are fabulous. Does the P problem refer to the upper elipse of the pot? It looks a little wide to me. Otherwise, great job!

Dave - I saw your bushes posted in (the other) Dave's thread before you put them here. They look nice. You have a light touch with the pen.

Mary - great start to your tree. I'm sure you cp folks will have no trouble with the layering.

If I have trouble with this class maybe I can ask ink-master Dave (artistdbs) to give me a private lesson. He only lives about 10 minutes away. :D Hi Dave! :wave:

Hi Jay, Anita, Connie and Michelle! :wave: Hope I didn't miss anyone.

CatEyes
11-04-2005, 08:58 PM
Mary, it looks wonderful.

Thanks Stacy... I need to find my reference...lol

Troy Rochford
11-04-2005, 09:06 PM
Mary that looks really good so far, and I love that reference.

Yabby - good stuff... your secret is safe with me!;)

Judi - looking for email....

Hi Bonnie nice work! I missed it earlier. Sorry.:(

Howdy Jay and Murray!

Troy Rochford
11-04-2005, 09:29 PM
Hey Mary I overlooked your trunk question. You can crosshatch that area and it will work out fine. If you look at my crosshatch tree in the initial post here, just do it that way, except remember that I rushed those so you do NOT want to be as sloppy as I was. If you were thinking of drawing in detailed bark and all that stuff, you don't want to do that because the tree is too distant. It would take on a silly look if you get too detailed.

Mary Woodul
11-04-2005, 09:35 PM
Thank you Troy, I'll try to do it slow and careful. ;)

JayD, Stacy and Tia, thank you! :)

Cathie Jones
11-04-2005, 11:00 PM
Stacy - remember to chant the mantra we learned in the watercolor forum: "It's only paper." :D Then you can start inking without fear. If you mess up just start a new one (and I've been through both sides of 2 sheets so far!) .

mothsailor
11-05-2005, 05:48 AM
Hi Mary, your tree is coming along really well.

Mary Woodul
11-05-2005, 07:39 AM
Hi Dave, thank you, I love the way you handled the light on your bushes.

IslanderNL
11-05-2005, 07:44 AM
Mary, I think your tree looks lovely. I'm sure you'll conquer the trunk easily.

Here is my start on the topiary twins. I only realized as I was doing them just how large they really are, you can actually walk through them. Must be amazing. I wonder where they are located?

Anyway, here's the start. Comments please. I'mj sure you'll tell me Troy if this is a firestarter or if I can continue.:rolleyes:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/67422-Topiary_001.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/67422-Topiary_002.jpg

Troy Rochford
11-05-2005, 07:59 AM
JEanette you should make your scribbles tighter so that they dont show as much later on. Also, I would have to see the reference again, but i'm bothered by the asymmetrical look of this, and the fact that it isn't level. It may be like that in the photo, too, but if it is, I personally would have fixed that in the drawing. I'm nitpicky about that though, so feel free to ignore me!!!;)

IslanderNL
11-05-2005, 08:15 AM
You're right, it does have a list to it Troy. I wonder if I can fix that or would I have to start again....hmmm And I will be filling it in more, it is just the start.http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/67422-twins_small.gif http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/67422-Topiary_001.jpg


Here's the reference and the drawing nfor comparison.

IslanderNL
11-05-2005, 08:17 AM
Looking at it now...sigh start again. Shows that I shouldn't draw while drinking wine. :crying:

Judi1957
11-05-2005, 08:32 AM
Morning All! :wave:

Dave-those bushes are great!!!!

Mary-that is coming along well!!!

Tia-I think yours are good too. I agree you must have lost some of the highlights on that paper.
-de Boss had that same comment for mine--overworked. :eek:

Jeanette-LOL-drinking wine in the bushes- :eek:
I think when you add the tighter scribbles it'll pop!

Fireman's kid
11-05-2005, 09:08 AM
Stacy - remember to chant the mantra we learned in the watercolor forum: "It's only paper."

Thanks CJ! I'll try to remember that. I guess it's good to know that Michael's is only about 5 minutes away and has more paper when I run out of the one large piece I bought. :D lol

Jeanette - is that a fence gate at the bottom of those topiaries?!? They must be huge!! :eek: I do see the lean you mention, but I would continue with it since it is only a practice drawing. It may not look exactly like the reference, but you could still get the feel for doing trees without starting over. :)

Well, gotta run. My parents are coming to visit today and I still have some cleaning to do before they get here. Yuck, I hate cleaning!! Maybe I can talk my Dad into doing this lesson with me tonight. It's probably been years since he working in pen and ink.

CatEyes
11-05-2005, 03:15 PM
I think I will attempt this one:

Thanks khourianya (../RefLib/member.php?uid=47843) for the reference.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/62985-classrefernce.jpg

Cathie Jones
11-05-2005, 03:16 PM
That's a nice one, Tia . . . light and airy!

Cathie Jones
11-05-2005, 05:00 PM
Where is everybody today? It's very lonely in the classroom!!!

Technique check - this is with 3 layers. Next layer I'll start the shaping/darkening and add more needles. I'll post this in Dave's thread too . . . maybe there's someone home over there. :D
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/23460-bonsai_3_layers.110505.sm.jpg

Judi1957
11-05-2005, 05:44 PM
LOL CJ-I was just over there...no one home there either. I think they are all at Val's Birthday party.

Finally made a decision after looking thru the RIL and taking some pics. Ended up back in the RIL and deciding on 'tree base' by Rich Williams.
Posting the ref. Will post some work later tonite.

Ref is here. (http://www.wetcanvas.com/RefLib/showphoto.php?photo=3558&what=allfields&name=rich%20williams)

Judi1957
11-05-2005, 06:01 PM
CJ-That is looking great so far. Can't wait to see the darks added!

Troy Rochford
11-05-2005, 06:12 PM
CJ - what Judi said.:)

Jeanette - I agree with Stacy that you don't really need to start over, just do what you can do with this one and call it a learning experience. It's nowhere near a total loss or anything. Just need to tighten up those scribbles and correct the other issues as best you can.

Judi1957
11-05-2005, 08:21 PM
Posting stage .00005-LOL.

Blocking in the darks-though not completely as I may want some hint of the rear foliage later.

IslanderNL
11-05-2005, 08:30 PM
I've decided to start over again and I think its better this time. Perhaps that drinking wine in the bushes really didn't help after all...

I'll post what I've done in the morning. More visitors, more wine tonight. Sigh, such a hardship...:)

Troy Rochford
11-05-2005, 09:12 PM
Jeanette there seems to be a lot of that going around. I think my dog is not long for this world either. I see attempt #2 in the future..

Cathie Jones
11-05-2005, 09:12 PM
Hi! It's me again! Here we are with 5 layers, and I'm thinking that I don't want to take this any darker. :confused: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/23460-bonsai_5_layers.110505.sm.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/23460-bonsai.cosme_D_Churruca.sm.jpg

Troy Rochford
11-05-2005, 09:16 PM
Looks good CJ - I think you would have been well served to preserve some of the highlighted areas though. Just a tip for the next one... ;)

Judi1957
11-05-2005, 09:20 PM
Hi CJ! :wave:
I would not add anymore darks to the follage either-but I would add some to the trunk to make the foliage appear lighter. Especially under the canopy.

Cathie Jones
11-05-2005, 09:22 PM
Thanks. I'll do some darkening on the trunk.

Any ideas on how to do the pot it's in???

Judi1957
11-05-2005, 09:28 PM
Warning-Warning!

Ladies (and gents as it applies)..if you are working on the illustration board-caution-jewelry leaves marks! That stuff picks up the tiniest scratches-I have since covered the area where my hand is w/ a dish towel.
Luckily mine was outside the drawing area and I discovered it taping down the illustration board.

Troy Rochford
11-05-2005, 10:45 PM
Judi perhaps you shoudl not wear your Mr. T. costume when working on art.

A dish towel? Does it have food and chicken blood all over it?

DBSullivan
11-05-2005, 11:39 PM
Hi Everyone! I just wanted to stop by and say that everyone is doing a great job. I'm thrilled to see all this ink being "flung around"

CJ - I agree with what Troy said. If you look at your ref, you'll see the darkness on the trunk area created by the "hood" of foliage. And the other thing Troy mentioned "it would've been good to preserve some lights"..This is ahead of where I'm at with my tutorials, but those lighter areas can be done by creating designated areas of negative space during your first layer and working them in using the additional layers. This is a re-itterance of going in slowly and with careful intention. As far as the pot goes.. I would personally use multiple layers of small cross-hatched lines in vertical rows.

Judi - Don't let Troy give you a hard time - I've been using a dish towel for years! In fact, I posted it as a "tip" in a thread here in D/S a few months ago. Not only does it protect from jewelry.. it's much more comfy than a piece of paper and will act as a better shield in case your pen decides to drip (I shake my rapidograph over the towel) I love my towel!!! :D
btw - I love your ref pic.. can't wait to see what you do with it.

Stacey - Hi neighbor! :wave: .. you know where I'm at if you need some personal assistance (but that's not very fair to the others is it? - lol) Seriously, if you need help, give me a shout.

Everyone - You guys are all doing a great job. And just so you know.. I'm continuously lurking and I'm always watching! http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/61349-small_eyes_2.gif

IslanderNL
11-06-2005, 05:52 AM
CJ, your bonsai tree looks wonderful. I agree that the trunk, especially directly under the canopy should be very dark to contrast the foliage.

Nice reference Cateyes, that will be lovely in P & I

Very dramatic reference Judi. Blocking in all those darks takes time, but well worth it. Its coming on beautifully.

Here's what I've done on Twins # 2. Straighter now Troy? The largers scribbles are reduced as I fill in the drawing. (I hope):D This is done with a Koh-I-Noor pen in True Sepia (still looks black to me) on 9 x 12 Bristol smooth.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2005/67422-TOPIARY_smL.JPG

Cathie Jones
11-06-2005, 09:20 AM
Jeanette, that looks terrific!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thanks, Dave. I'll try cross hatching on the pot.

Anita Murphy
11-06-2005, 09:27 AM
Jeanette - this is looking fabulous!

CJ - I love your bonsai - great structure.

Judi - yours as usual is incredibly impressive even in the early stages!!

Judi1957
11-06-2005, 10:30 AM
Hey All-Troy said to let you all know he may not be in till Monday or Tuesday.
:( :(

Dave-I am loving my dish towel too! I like this use of it better than the traditional use! :D

Tia-your ref is lovely-anxious to see your first stage post!

Jeanette-Ty-that is fantastic-wonderful transitions!! :clap: :clap:

Awww Anita, TY-that was really nice. :)

Well-posting Stage .001 and a close up there of the rear foliage. May have to darken/stipple over that area more later, but I will better be able to judge that when the foreground folliage is in.

Cathie Jones
11-06-2005, 11:10 AM
Hey All-Troy said to let you all know he may not be in till Monday or Tuesday.

:( :(

Good thing we have Dave checking in on this lesson!!

Judi, you picked a really difficult ref and you're doing a fantastic job with it! :clap:

CatEyes
11-06-2005, 12:07 PM
Cj: I agree with both Troy and Judi! Nice work!!:clap:

Judi: Can't wait to see more!!! Great start!:clap:

Edited: Jeanette: It looks fantastic!!! :clap:

Cathie Jones
11-06-2005, 01:47 PM
Good thing we have Dave checking in on this lesson!!

Judi, you picked a really difficult ref and you're doing a fantastic job with it! :clap:

I left something out of this . . . it's a good thing we have Judi, too!!!:clap:

DBSullivan
11-06-2005, 02:38 PM
Hi Everyone - With Troy away, I'll do my best to pop in and help you guys. If anyone has a specific problem that can't wait.. please feel free to PM me.. (I set my email to automatically check every 30 minutes)

CJ - Good luck with the pot! You know how to reach me if you need to. ;)

Jeanette - Wow, that's a really nice job! I was wondering how you would do when I saw the ref photo, and I must say that I'm quite impressed! I really like the "loopy", soft look of the background the way it is.. it provides an out-of-focus look that really makes your foreground bushes stand out. Concerning Troy's earlier comments about tightening up your circles... I'm agree. However, I, myself, can't help but to make a conscious effort to not push my style on others when offering advice, and since my style is very tight, I am more inclined to encourage your own style.. be it loose or otherwise. This scribbling technique is one that can be really fun and relaxing.. it looks to me like you're taking advantage of that!

Judi - I agree with CJ.. you picked a difficult reference to work from.. and you're handling it well! I like the way you're working from your dark background into the foreground. That takes quite a bit of foresight on your part - well done! Also, I see that you're drawing individual leaves in the foreground. I understand that Troy is focusing on the scribble method, but I want you keep in mind that it's sometimes better (or yet just another option) to use solid lines for foreground objects. Below is a quick example I did for you. I simply draw the outline of my leaves and use the scribble method in-between them. Later, I finish by adding a dark line on the shadow side of the leaf and, perhaps, a few hatch lines in the leaves themselves (to suggest the "veins")

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2005/61349-foreground_leaves_example.jpg

IslanderNL
11-06-2005, 03:18 PM
Thank you all for the encouragement. I like this one and am making progress with it.

Dave, I wonder if a whole picture of 'squiggles' isn't too much, but I'm scared to branch out too much (sorry for the pun lol) in rendering the trees in the background. The grass is being done in vertical strokes and the path in stipple, but aside from that, its all variant tones of the squiggle. I personally think it works as the background is meant to fade away a bit and the really tight formation on the topiary should stand out.

Its a good practice and I'll try another reference most likely once this one is finished. More posting later I hope and you can see the progress. It becomes rather addictive...

Cathie Jones
11-06-2005, 04:07 PM
Dave, it looks like we've all jumped ahead (we tend to do that here!). Better hurry with the rest of those tutorials!!! :D

Judi1957
11-06-2005, 04:17 PM
TY CJ :) I am glad we all have YOU too! :clap:

Thanks for the advice Dave! I appreciate it-though it'll be a couple days till I get there -the foreground. I will check that out and do a practice run. :)

Troy Rochford
11-06-2005, 04:22 PM
Hi All - I sent Judi an email last night letting her know my computer was having serious issues and I may be out for a couple of days. However, after requiring several hours just to successfully send that email, the moment I sent it my computer started working just fine. Go figure... Judi I sent you a follow up email letting you know it may be a false alarm, but maybe you didn't get thta one.

Jeanette that looks excellent.

Dave - actually, I'm NOT "pushing the scribble method":( Remember, between your tutorials and my intro to this class, there are at least 4 methods covered in this lesson. It just so happens that everyone seems to want to try ONLY the scribble method, and I left that up to them to decide. I DO wish they would incorporate some of the others into their practice though, since they'll be important later on down the line (hint, hint...;))

Judi1957
11-06-2005, 04:29 PM
Sorry Troy,
I did get the second e-mail but I didn't read that you rescinded the Class attendance-thought you were busy as well as the pc problems.
So All:
TROY IS HERE! :D

SILKNSATIN
11-06-2005, 04:48 PM
No problem troy.I tried to slip it in fast so not many could catch my mess.LOL
Thanks all.Stacy the snakes are under water. :p
Wow you all are doing fantastic.
Cathie im trying a dang bush now.But im not much into ink.Think im getting more ink on me than my drawing.This is a very old set that belonged to my granddad and took me awhile to figure out how to dip right.LOL
I even have a few ink pens I made from ostrich feathers.My dad showed me how to cut them when I was a youngin.

DBSullivan
11-06-2005, 05:05 PM
Dave - actually, I'm NOT "pushing the scribble method":( sorry, my mistake.

CatEyes
11-06-2005, 05:10 PM
I tried three methods...I did I did... however it was just practice... tee hee. I have to go out and get my supplies, I just have to do it when I have time off from taxi duty! lol

Troy Rochford
11-06-2005, 05:20 PM
sorry, my mistake.

Sorry if my comment sounded combative, Dave. That wasn't my intent. I'm trying to get the hint across that I'm in agreement with you - people should not limit themselves to one method. Of course, it isn't so much of a hint now, is it?;) Well hopefully it's sinking in now!:)

Cathie Jones
11-06-2005, 07:12 PM
Huh? Did you say something Troy? :evil:

DBSullivan
11-06-2005, 07:17 PM
Sorry if my comment sounded combative, Dave.Don't sweat it, buddy! :)

IslanderNL
11-06-2005, 07:57 PM
I have a little of everything in this drawing, but mostly scribbles. I'm not sure about the grass area so need a little advice here. I covered too much of the surface I think and there's no going back now I guess.

The photo doesn't give the full range of tones and I'll try another photo in the morning in natural light if I have time.

For now, here's the work to date.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2005/67422-TOPIARY3.JPG

Troy Rochford
11-06-2005, 08:06 PM
Looks good jeanette. If you are very careful not to overwork it, you can add some life to this by intensifying some of your darkest areas. Looks like youre on the right track with the grass - I dont understand yur question there. If you darken the base of the topiary and all that to generate more of a value separation between that and the grass, you'll be pleased I think.

Judi1957
11-06-2005, 08:08 PM
Beautiful work Jeanette! :clap:
I'll look forward to the update tomorrow! :)
If that is a gate and posts in front of the bushes-I feel sorry for the landskeeper-how tall is that! :eek: :D

Mary Woodul
11-06-2005, 08:24 PM
Hi everyone! :wave:

I'm way behind on comments again but everyone's work looks great.

Troy I'm afraid I messed up the shadow of the tree and the horizon line and I don't know if I can fix that. I also don't know if the tree needs more layering. :confused:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2005/43096-arbol2.jpg

IslanderNL
11-06-2005, 08:36 PM
Thanks Troy. My concern on the grass is whether the vertical strokes are too long for this area as it's not that close to the viewer really.

I will be darkening some areas to make them stand out a bit more. Let's hope I don't screw it up entirely! :)

Thank you Judi. Yep, I think those bushes need the ministrations of a hydraulic lift pruner. I wonder how old they are? And where are they? I'll have to email Geoff,the photo's owner to find out. I'd love to see them in real life.

Mary, your tree looks lovely and soft. You've mastered the pen admirably. I'm n ot sure about the shadow, I'd have to go back and see your reference before commenting.

Mary Woodul
11-06-2005, 08:41 PM
Thank you Jeanette! Your work to me, looks great. It is so elaborate and your grass is so even and staight. I dont know how you did that!

Judi1957
11-06-2005, 08:52 PM
Ohhh Mary-the tree is looking grand! I think if you thickened up the sparse grass a bit it will help even things out there a bit wit the shadow. Wait and see what the Boss thinks, I am sure he will have a solution!

Fireman's kid
11-06-2005, 09:34 PM
Boy Jeanette, you worked fast. You had a pretty complex reference with LOTS of foliage. And it turned out so nice. Well done! :clap:

Mary, yours is also beautiful. I love the trunk - you nailed the lights and darks. I don't know what to tell you about the shadow, so you better wait for the experts. If you want a lesson with Dave you can come visit me. :D (But I don't think you really need it. :) )

Hi Dave! :wave: I know how to reach you if I need you. And who said I was worried about being fair??!? I'll do anything for a good grade...well, not quite anything, but unfair private lessons - you bet. :D

I'm a little behind you speedsters, but I did get my three bushes drawn tonight. And here they are...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/06-Nov-2005/31442-WC_L29_three_bushes.jpg

I think the back bush is a little overworked. It doesn't have as much highlight as the others. And the middle one has a bit of a funny shape. BUt I'm happy with the front one! And it was fun and not at all stressful as I expected.

I'll try to pick out my tree reference tomorrow.
Night all! :wave:

Cathie Jones
11-06-2005, 09:53 PM
Mary, I love your tree - - especially the trunk!!

Stacy, try smaller scribbles for little things like the bushes - it's easier to get more detail that way. They look good as is, though! Told you it'd be fun. :D

mothsailor
11-07-2005, 06:13 AM
Warning-Warning!

Ladies (and gents as it applies)..if you are working on the illustration board-caution-jewelry leaves marks! That stuff picks up the tiniest scratches-I have since covered the area where my hand is w/ a dish towel.
Luckily mine was outside the drawing area and I discovered it taping down the illustration board.

Uh oh, guess I'll have to take off my diamond rings...

CJ, Mary, Jeanette, anyone else I've missed out...that's great work. Unfortunately, we had to head over to my sister-in-law's this weekend as my nephew had an accident and had to spend a night in hospital. Nothing too serious, but we went to look after my neice. Anyway, I didn't get any drawing done as a result, but on the plus side, we did get to set off lots of fireworks!

Now, back to writing a two hour lecture I've got to give on Thursday! :eek:

Mary Woodul
11-07-2005, 07:09 AM
Dave, so sorry about the accident. I hope everything is all right now. Good luck with the lecture.

CJ, Stacy and Judi, thank you!

CJ, your bonsai is just beautiful, you got the shape so well done.

Stacy, you also seem to have a knack with pen and ink, your bushes look fabulous.

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 09:35 AM
Stacy nice work and you already know the areas for improvement so you saved me the trouble!!:)

Mary - I'd have to look at your reference if you're talking about shadow placement for the tree, but what I don't like about the cast shadow is the crosshatching. It creates a distracting pattern in the grass. People use various methods for doing cast shadows on grass, but my personal approach is just to layer the grass a little heavier in that area, so that the strokes are still uniform and in the same general direction. The tree looks great btw!

CatEyes
11-07-2005, 10:01 AM
Jeanette: Very nice.

Mary: wow nicely done!

Edited: Stacy: Nice bushes... you kept the light! :)

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 10:08 AM
Tia as your teacher I am savagely offended by the fact that you haven't put your little stapler and glass thing in your signature!!;)

Fireman's kid
11-07-2005, 10:21 AM
Thanks CJ, Mary, Troy and Tia!

CJ, I understand your comment about smaller scribbles for smaller objects, but something I haven't figured out yet is how to do smaller scribbles without getting it much darker. It seems the smaller the scribbles the more ink will be layed down and the darker the whole drawing will be. I'm sure I will figure it out with more practice, but right now it's still a mystery. :D

Cathie Jones
11-07-2005, 10:30 AM
Thanks CJ, Mary, Troy and Tia!

CJ, I understand your comment about smaller scribbles for smaller objects, but something I haven't figured out yet is how to do smaller scribbles without getting it much darker. It seems the smaller the scribbles the more ink will be layed down and the darker the whole drawing will be. I'm sure I will figure it out with more practice, but right now it's still a mystery. :D

Stacy, I think that's were the difference between pens comes in. The Micron .30 I was using laid down more ink, and was more inconsistent (some lines lighter, some darker) but the Rapidograph .30 is such a thin line it isn't overwhelming.

If you're using the good pens . . . make bigger bushes. :D

Mary Woodul
11-07-2005, 10:51 AM
Thank you Troy, I'll fix that today! :)

DBSullivan
11-07-2005, 11:25 AM
something I haven't figured out yet is how to do smaller scribbles without getting it much darker. It seems the smaller the scribbles the more ink will be layed down and the darker the whole drawing will be. As CJ stated.. size does matter! :eek: (did I say that?)

Also, this is where my "broken scribble" method comes in handy. ;)

phoebecat
11-07-2005, 11:31 AM
Hi everyone :wave:

These are all looking fantastic! :clap: I have to admit, I have been slacking and haven't even started mine. I'm also having scanner issues, but hopefully, I'll have that resolved soon even if it means hooking up my old beat up scanner again.


Anne

CatEyes
11-07-2005, 03:53 PM
Tia as your teacher I am savagely offended by the fact that you haven't put your little stapler and glass thing in your signature!!;)

My deepest appologies Teach! You know, I've been so busy being taxi mom, that I totally forgot to do that, thank you for reminding me...now where did I leave my head?

CatEyes
11-07-2005, 04:50 PM
Alright I changed my sig.

I went to the new AC Moore down here and they didn't have illustration board. It was delivered but sent back as a mistake! :confused: I was able to get 3 micron pens, for the price of one alone. :D The woman there said the mircon are basically the same and the PITT pens I already had, but I wanted to get the black ones, so I'll have both. I picked up Strathmore Bristol smooth... This is the right one yes?

Tia

Mary Woodul
11-07-2005, 07:28 PM
Troy, I think this is the best I can do to fix that mistake with the shadow without it getting to dark. :o

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Nov-2005/43096-arbol3.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Nov-2005/43096-tree_image.jpg

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 07:29 PM
Yes Tia on the illustration board. I've never used the micron pens but my understanding is that they are an adequate sub for rapidographs. Do bear in mind, however, that that's what they are - a cheap imitation of the pens you should REALLY be using!!!! hehehehe

On a serious note, your results with the micron pens should be at least somewhat similar. But if you end up liking this medium and want to continue with it, I personally would strongly recommend investing in the more expensive pens. That can come later though.

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 08:00 PM
Mary that looks cool! I would very carefully layer some more grass in the foreground, so that it looks fuller and less like occasional blades sticking out of a dirt road!;) This is one of those areas where you want to go one stroke at a time and be very careful where you put them, and constantly pull back and look to make sure you don't overwork it.

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 08:02 PM
I'm really glad to see that you guys seem to be enjoying this class, btw. I was worried that simply focusing an entire lesson on a limited subject would bore you or frustrate you. Thanks for your participation! I'm seeing some really impressive work. You guys are catching on fast and should be proud!:)

Mary Woodul
11-07-2005, 08:06 PM
Thank you Troy, I'll work on that and as for me I am enjoying this class very much. :)

IslanderNL
11-07-2005, 08:28 PM
Mary, you've solved the shadow problem beautifully. It looks great.

I've darkened the topiary on my drawing and I like the result. You're right Troy, it does make it look better. Thanks. I'll post it tomorrow and the digital camera's batteries died and are recharging.

As for me, I enjoy this exercise and think I've learned a lot. Thank you for setting this up for us Troy.

CatEyes
11-07-2005, 08:31 PM
lovely Mary!!!

CatEyes
11-07-2005, 08:33 PM
an adequate sub for rapidographs.

Yeah well, they didn't sell those so I didn't have a chioce... :::sigh:::
lol

Judi1957
11-07-2005, 08:48 PM
Mary! Who says you can't fix an error in ink?? To some extent that is probably true-but you are fixing it beautifully. Impressive!

Tia-if you get hooked on the ink you can order the pen's from where CJ got them? That was dirt cheap.
Though it is a heafty price if you do not think you will continue in the medium, but well worth it if you will use them.

Jeanette-lol-mine always need recherged when I want to post too. Anxious to see!

I am enjoying this too Troy. Great Class. :clap: :clap:

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 08:54 PM
Jeanette I think you should just give me your digital camera, and you can just use scanners from here on out! You like that idea? I do!

Judi1957
11-07-2005, 09:02 PM
Oops.. speaking of posting-here are my meager offerings for the night-actually from yesterday afternoon-haven't put down any ink yet tonight. :( I do see that I will be darkening the bg more but still waiting till later for that. And I am sure this is my usual blurry pic-lol-to all except eagle eye Tia! :

Going to work on it -hopefully I will have a lot more done tomorrow night!

Cathie Jones
11-07-2005, 09:40 PM
Nice recovery, Mary! I agree with Troy about putting in more grass in front.

Judi . . . looking terrific!!!

Troy, it seems that every time we get a break from graphite (which is not to say we don't like graphite) it's fun and we have a great time. I know I'm loving this one!!

So . . . here's an almost final. Pending whether it can stand alone as a 'botanical' type drawing, or if it needs to be grounded. And if it needs to be grounded, how?
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Nov-2005/23460-bonsai.110705.sm.jpg

IslanderNL
11-07-2005, 09:49 PM
Well now Troy, I think we could negotiate this...NOT! But having said that I may just take this to work with me tomorrow and use the scanner there to see if the image quality is any better.

Judi, this is going to be quite the drawing you're creating. Seems very ink-intensive so far, I hope you have a pen in reserve! :)

Wow CJ! I really really like your bonsai tree. It is just stunning.

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 09:50 PM
Judi this continues to look interesting but I'm not sure what is going on here. Have you posted the reference for this?

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 09:53 PM
Hey CJ you can leave that alone as is if you want. That's up to you. I know this isnt what you were going for, but call it a bit of serendipity: your "pot" looks like a terrific woven basket. lol. Just remember from here on out, if anyone asks - OF COURSE you were drawing a woven basket!!!;)

Cathie Jones
11-07-2005, 09:59 PM
Thanks Jeanette and Troy.:D

Troy, I cross-posted my question in the P&I thread and Dave suggested cross-hatching. I didn't have a clue how to make it a clay pot!! I cross-posted the grounding question, too. I like it as is, but what do I know???:rolleyes:

Judi1957
11-07-2005, 10:06 PM
Troy,
Not sure what is going on? Pen & Ink Class! PAY ATTENTION! :p :p
Here is the ref Boss. (http://www.wetcanvas.com/RefLib/showphoto.php?photo=3558)
The drawing area is 10" square.

Jeanette- I have a fresh bottle of ink. The blocking took a bit-but really only a part of reservoir full-but the leaves so far in the bg are stippled using a 3/0 rapidiograph pen-that's teeny tiney!-so very little ink.

Awesome bonsai and pot CJ! :clap: Frame it!
ty :)

Cathie Jones
11-07-2005, 10:12 PM
TY Judi!! :D

Mary Woodul
11-07-2005, 10:29 PM
Jeanette thank you and I am dying to see your topiary tomorrow, it was looking great.

Thank you Tia! :)

Judi if it hadn't been for Troy's and Dave's suggestions and tutoring on the shadow it probably would have ended up in the waste basket. BTw what your are doing is looking very ambitious and fantastic.

CJ, I agree with Troy! It really looks like a beautiful woven basket and your work on the foliage is excellent. I think it is one of the best I have seen from you.

Troy, here goes, hope I understood you! ;)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Nov-2005/43096-arbol4.jpg

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 10:51 PM
Perfect Mary!

Judi1957
11-07-2005, 10:53 PM
You did it Mary! :clap: Nice plush grass!

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 10:54 PM
CJ I would have suggested crosshatching the pot as well. Who knows why it turned out looking like a weave, but I wouldn't be upset about it. It looks great.

Anita Murphy
11-07-2005, 11:02 PM
CJ - I love your bonsai! Perfect job!

Mary - this is just fabulous - a real lithograph quality!

Judi - I love what you are doing. Very ambitious but I know you will do an amazing job on it.

Jeanette - looking forward to your topiary!


I finally found something I could use for this class. This is from my dad's old geometry set - circa 1933!!! Still I think it will work just fine as I used to use this all the time for botanical pen and ink drawings.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/07-Nov-2005/58769-pen.jpg
Unless of course Troy says I can't use this.

DBSullivan
11-07-2005, 11:12 PM
Hi Guys.. just stopping in to say hello :wave:

CJ - I love the pot! I think you got the woven look because you used such small lines. Like Troy said.. don't worry about it. I'm also quite impressed with the dirt!.. and nobody even mentioned it! :rolleyes:

Mary - That's awesome! :clap: Excellent job on the grass!!!

Judy - You're getting me excited with that one. You may have a real winner there!

you guys sure this is your first time at this??? 'cause for rookie inkers, you guys are doing a fantastic job! I mean that.

Judi1957
11-07-2005, 11:13 PM
Ty Anita-Hey I have one of those in and old German set I aquired from my grandfather!
ty :)

Troy-here is a b/w of the ref.

Hi Dave! I hope so-it does look better IRL-lol

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 11:13 PM
Anita I believe I addressed that in the intro to this class, and probably 100 times privately. To reiterate, the suggested materials are not mandatory or even necessary for this particular class. They will never be mandatory, but in future lessons you will not produce very good work without them. I eagerly await your post!;)

Troy Rochford
11-07-2005, 11:15 PM
Dave I agree re the dirt. It looks very very real. Sorry for letting that slip by CJ.

Cathie Jones
11-07-2005, 11:37 PM
Thanks again, everybody. The dirt is a combination of broken scribble and stipple. (That sounds line something I shouldn't say in front of my mother!)

Dave suggested that I put a small shadow under the pot by stippling, so I'll be practicing that tomorrow. Been a busy week, though. Got a flu shot today, voting tomorrow . . . whew, this partially retired thing can be really tiring!!:evil:

Anita, I have one of those, too! A couple of years ago someone in the watercolor forum (an ex-draftsman of course) discovered that they're terrific for applying masking fluid in small and medium spaces because you can vary the flow - just like with ink - and they're so easy to clean.

Judi, you are a master of every medium we've tried - I can't wait to see this one finished.

Mary Woodul
11-08-2005, 06:29 AM
CJ, I was looking at the trunk of your tree, that is awesome! :clap:

Thank you Troy, Judi, Anita and Dave.

Anita, where are you? We miss you!

IslanderNL
11-08-2005, 07:15 AM
I have let this drawing sit and resisting tweaking it anymore. i like it overall, but as always there are aspects that I could have improved upon. But now I'm calling it complete.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2005/67422-TOPIARY3-FINAL.JPG

mhimeswc
11-08-2005, 07:48 AM
Here's my first try at a pen and ink tree.

Michelle http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2005/20035-PenInkTree.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2005/20035-TreeRef.jpg

CatEyes
11-08-2005, 07:53 AM
CJ: It's gorgeous.

Judi: all I can say is ooo and ahhh!! :)

You are all so far a head of me...

CatEyes
11-08-2005, 07:56 AM
Michelle: Great job

Mary: Wow very nice!

Jeanette: You should be very proud it looks stunning.

Anita Murphy
11-08-2005, 08:07 AM
Jeanette - this is stunning!

Michelle - what a fab tree!

CJ - I never thought of using it for masking fluid! Outstanding idea!

Judi - It is quite likely that it is a German set as my father was Danish.

Troy - I will get down to this today as soon as I get back from a meeting.

You guys have set the bar SO high :eek:

Troy Rochford
11-08-2005, 08:12 AM
Jeanette you da man! Or something like that! ;)

Michelle - that looks cool, and I love the shadow. I would suggest on your next effort if you do a tree with this many light values you should concentrate on doing a broken scribble a la Dave's method. This will eliminate distracting scribble patterns in the light areas and will leave something that looks more natural at a glance. If that confused you, my apologies. It's early and my brain isn't on yet!

Troy Rochford
11-08-2005, 08:14 AM
Speaking of setting the bar high... I just bragged to Murray that some of you first timers are producing work that looks like the stuff of veterans. So keep it up. Murray will be looking in soon I'm sure. No pressure or anything.... :)

DBSullivan
11-08-2005, 08:56 AM
Jeanette - Wow!!! That looks remarkable! You really did a great job on a very difficult undertaking... drawing foliage in front of foliage. I just walked in from grabbing my coffee, and when I saw your drawing (on my monitor) from across the room, those 2 bushes just jumped out at me! Bravo! :clap: I can tell you learned a few things with this drawing, and I'm sure you feel much more confident in your inking abilities. (you've already learned to stop picking at it before you overwork it - that took me years to learn! ;) ) I can't wait to see what you do next!

Michelle - Nicely done! It's a difficult job maintaining those light areas while rendering the darks.. you did a wonderful job! And Troy is correct.. this is a perfect candidate for my "scrtipble" method. Also, I would recommend that you avoid solid darks (on the trunk and ground shadow). And it's too late for this one, but you left out the bit of light foliage directly in front of the trunk. When I do trees, I look for things like that to add contrast and realism.

Anita - If you're having issues with what pen to use.. just use a black ballpoint for now - nothing wrong with that! :)

IslanderNL
11-08-2005, 09:13 AM
Thank you everyone for your kind words. Each drawing is an adventure. I am amazed at what everyone has done in this medium. The drawings are masterpieces. Quite incredible.

Michelle, great tree! Troy and Dave have given some great advice on how to create mroe realism in your work. They know what they're talking about!

Thanks Troy, your advice was spot on as always. Now what's next? More foliage, different technique? Or do we wait til your ingenious mind has plotted and schemed up another adventure?

Thank you Dave. Yes I have learned a lot in this drawing about pen and iink and using it well. I'm sure it will help a lot when I tackle more P & I drawings. Again thanks for you help on this one too.

Troy Rochford
11-08-2005, 09:16 AM
Jeanette the more I see your finished piece the more I like it. From across the room it almost looks like a sepia photo. Really nice stuff, and to be honest, I hated that reference. You've made me like it though.

As for what to do now, I'd actually like to see you guys play around with the other techniques that I covered in the intro. You're going to need those in future lessons, so now is a good time to start practicing with them. Remember - that's the point of this lesson. Practice. The REAL work comes in the next ink lesson!!!

IslanderNL
11-08-2005, 09:33 AM
yeah, it kind of grows on you after awhile. I figured I;d gotten in over my head after the first screw up but it becomes rather addictive. Now I need another fix.

I'll be hunting down a new reference to practice on. Perhaps something with not quite so much foliage in it! :)

Gulp, it gets harder?? You mean I can't stay in scribble land forever???

Cathie Jones
11-08-2005, 09:59 AM
Troy, do you mean you want us to do trees with all of the methods, or just to use each of them in some way?

Troy Rochford
11-08-2005, 10:05 AM
Just trees or some sort of plant life, CJ. You can pick your own reference though!;) In the next ink lesson, you CAN'T.

Cathie Jones
11-08-2005, 10:30 AM
Just trees or some sort of plant life, CJ. You can pick your own reference though!;) In the next ink lesson, you CAN'T.

:eek:

SILKNSATIN
11-08-2005, 11:39 AM
Wow beautiful work eveyone. :clap:
I must say,this scribling drove me nuts and my hand got tired.LOL
Didn't look at no ref.I just kinda scribbled along until I got tired of it. :p
But I gave it a shot.

Judi1957
11-08-2005, 12:30 PM
Hey All! :wave:

Jeanette! Take a bow!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: Absolutley wonderful!

Michelle! very nice work!

Tia-ty :)

Bon-I love that-reminds me of the Wizard of Oz. :D

You can pick your own reference though!;) In the next ink lesson, you CAN'T.
:eek: With CJ

mhimeswc
11-08-2005, 02:12 PM
Yup, I left out that light foliage that went across the trunk. I knew that almost as soon as I did it. :o I also pretty much realized that the totally dark trunk was too much after it was too late. I will keep these things in mind for next time.

Dave, I hadn't read your tutorial first, (I just read it now) and I can see how the broken scribble would have worked much better on my light areas. But I had some free time yesterday and just decided to jump in and "just do it". I wasn't sure whether I was doing it right - it's not as easy as it looks. I'm glad that you and Troy feel that I didn't do too badly.

I'm loving everyone's trees - they are all so different and interesting, and everyone is doing such a great job.

Michelle

yabby
11-08-2005, 04:15 PM
I was too busy this week to follow the lesson, but I succeeded to scribble my tree....:angel:
Everyone was busy too, drawing bushes and trees and did great! :clap:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2005/67604-Untitled-2_rsz.jpg

It was fun to draw this ref from Ref Lib thanks to Clara Wundabara
Hope to spare time to be with all of you soon. :wave:

CatEyes
11-08-2005, 07:39 PM
Yabby: Nice work.

Bon: It's cute and it reminds me of the Wizard of Oz as well. :)

Judi1957
11-08-2005, 08:14 PM
Hi Yabby! :wave:
Hope all is well with you over there. You and your location were brought up in the WDT with the talk of the trouble in France and it is so great you posted and hopefully all is well in your town. I hope the rioting stops soon.
Lovely tree-nice and soft. I do think it would be good to add those darks for a better rendering of the shadow on the ground, the recesses between the branches and the shadowing and shaping of the trunk.
Nice work!

Fireman's kid
11-08-2005, 09:09 PM
I am amazed at what everyone has done in this medium. The drawings are masterpieces. Quite incredible.

I agree with Jeanette!! Everyone is doing wonderful. Puts the pressure on those of us who haven't started our tree yet. :p

CJ - your bonsai is awesome! :clap: Foliage, trunk, dirt, pot, all of it! I honestly think it is my favorite drawing of yours yet. Retirement seems to be agreeing with you. :D

Mary - what a fabulous finsh! I wasn't sure what you were going to do with your shadow but it looks great now!

Anita - I've been wondering where you've been. Glad to see you joining in.

Jeanette - I must admit your reference scared me and I thought I would never have chosen it. But WOW! You did a great job with it. And you sure got lots of practice with all different types of foliage. :)

Michelle - way to jump in and just do it! I think you did really well, especially considering that you read Dave's tutorial after you finished.

Yabby - I love your drawing! And I bet you get extra points from the teacher because you used multiple techniques. :clap:

Bon - I am always amazed that you can draw things without a reference. If I tried just scribbling without a reference it would look like...well...scribble. :D

Guess it's time for me to go find a reference pic. :wave:

IslanderNL
11-08-2005, 09:26 PM
Thanks Stacy, it turned out better than I anticipated,especially after a false start. I'm sure you'll find a great reference and catch up in no time.

I've chosen another reference to work on and practice some more techniques. Here is the original from the RIL by stephie20. I've cropped it and will work on that section or I'll be months at it otherwise.

Now Troy, Dave, anyone, what do I do with the pots? What technique? I think I can cope with the foliage but not sure about the pots...:confused:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2005/67422-plantpots_small.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2005/67422-plantpots2_small.jpg

Mary Woodul
11-08-2005, 09:49 PM
Jeanette your drawing is stunning and I am sure you will have no trouble with the pots.

Michelle, nice drawing and how good to see you.

Bon, as always you do such interesting drawings and this one is not an exception.

Yabby, beautiful airy tree! Your stippling is just great.

Thank you Stacy!

Hi Judi, CJ, and Troy! :wave:

JayD
11-08-2005, 10:14 PM
Yabby, love your tree!

JayD
11-08-2005, 10:16 PM
Bon, love your cluster of trees--it has a Berk Breathed (Bloom County) feel to it. Bravo!

Troy Rochford
11-08-2005, 10:16 PM
Jeanette what technique are you using for the foliage in the new one? Normally I'd say you could resort to an old standby in pen and ink and just do fine crosshatching (for the pots, I mean). BUT - if you choose the crosshatch technique for the FOLIAGE this time, you'd want to do something different with the pots so as to break up the monotony. I can actually show you a cool way you can shade the pots that I guarantee you will be different. Give me a few minutes to re-install my scanner.

JayD
11-08-2005, 10:20 PM
Mary, love the tree but my real weakness is grass and you really nailed the field.
Jeanette, simply stunning--looks like a matthew brady tintype without the people--simply gorgeous.
Hi, michelle--love the silhouette of the trunk--did you brush the ink or apply it with a pen. Good lights and darks create quite a nice contrast.

Troy Rochford
11-08-2005, 10:22 PM
Bon whats with you sneaking stuff in all the time when I'm not looking?;) Nice stuff. But come on now... you can put together something from a reference! I have faith in you, grasshopper!;)

Yabby that looks good. I agree with Judi re darks, etc... Keep up the good work!

In fact, everyone - keep up the good work!! You guys are making me and Dave look like freaking geniuses here!! lol

JayD
11-08-2005, 10:22 PM
CJ--this one reminds me of the artist Mark Reep--he has some articles floating around hr on the site somewere.

Judi, you are on your way to very much competing with Suellen Ross. Once you finish your penc and ink rendering you can go over it with watercolor washes and then finish up with colored pencil. Amazing!

Troy Rochford
11-08-2005, 10:23 PM
Hi Jay!!

JayD
11-08-2005, 10:26 PM
Good lord, I just saw my last post--I just invented the "penc". Hi, Troy!! You got a great class going on here.

Troy Rochford
11-08-2005, 10:49 PM
Jeanette - here ya go. I commented before in the pre-class thread that pen and ink is actually quite easy in a sense, because it is so illusory. You can take a lot more liberties with pen and ink and just really go wild and start making stuff up and it doesn't matter. As long as it looks good on the wall. P&I is by nature generally much looser in style than high detail graphite stuff as well, so it's not even expected to look as precise or perfect close up. Now that doesn't mean be sloppy, but it does mean you don't have to be so rigid with every single little mark that you make. Below is a perfect example.

This is a drawing that I took a little break from... in 1986! The first scan is just kind of an approximation of what the image looks like in real life from several feet away. The second shows you the patterns at work. You can use the pattern in the bones here to do your pots for something different. It makes the actual work less monotonous as well. With this particular inking technique, you can be as precise in the repitition of the shapes as you want, and you'll either get an extremely even tone, or if you vary it and kind of loosely sketch it in like I did here, it will give you a bit more of a random tone. (I've used this pattern to create shadows on concrete steps and stuff like that very effectively. The randomness adds to the realism, since concrete is never totally even in tone.)

As an added bonus, this shows you the advanced concept of combining stippling with another inking technique. That's your cue to oooh and ahhhh!;)

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2005/38425-bones1.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/08-Nov-2005/38425-bones2.jpg

IslanderNL
11-09-2005, 07:15 AM
Thank you Mary and Jay. Your approval means a lot to me. I do like this drawing more each time I look at it. I think I'll get it framed in fact and perhaps try to find a home for it.

Troy, what I wanted to do with the new drawing was some different techniques and get away from the scribbles for now, even though some may sneak in there. I'm sitting here this morning, jaw on the floor, looking at the drawing you presented of the bones. That pattern of shading is amazing! Its rather like calligraphy in fact. Is it two shades of ink? It seems one stroke is lighter than the other.

I think I will steal your patterning and do a test pot and see how it comes out before I commit. I'll show you and let you see then you can tell me if I'm heading in the right direction of not.

You're just so darned clever Troy!

Troy Rochford
11-09-2005, 09:53 AM
Lol Jeanette I think what youre seeing in that pattern is simply some pencil lines. I penciled in some of that pattern as a guide to keep my lines somewhat straight, etc.. and didn't erase the pencil lines because, clearly, that picture is nowhere near completed. All of the ink was done with a rapidograph - probably a .25 or .30. I did it in high school and back then those were the 2 nib sizes I used most. Kinda like now, come to think of it! Feel free to steal the pattern. It's not mine to begin with. I "stole" it from an artist friend of mine who used to do a bunch of illustrations for skateboarding magazines, metallica t shirts, etc.. The design isn't complicated, it's just kind of the ink version of a tongue twister. If you try to draw it too quickly, you'd be amazed at the bizarre variations you might come up with!!;)

Cathie Jones
11-09-2005, 01:23 PM
Bonsai final - matted w/black and unmatted. Enough shadow?

JayD
11-09-2005, 01:27 PM
I like that you kept the shadow at the base subtle--it has a very peaceful look about it.

Cathie Jones
11-09-2005, 01:30 PM
I like that you kept the shadow at the base subtle--it has a very peaceful look about it.

:wave: Hi JayD! Thank you . . .

Judi1957
11-09-2005, 01:31 PM
Gorgeous CJ! :clap: :clap:

Hi JayD! :wave: :wave:

Troy Rochford
11-09-2005, 01:37 PM
Looks great CJ. Looks better matted also, if you were soliciting opinions on that issue.

JayD
11-09-2005, 02:04 PM
Hi, Judi!! Hi, CJ!!

IslanderNL
11-09-2005, 02:16 PM
Just glorious CJ! I love it!

Cathie Jones
11-09-2005, 02:17 PM
Hi JayD :wave: Hi Judi :wave: Hi Troy :wave: Hi Jeanette :wave:

Here's my next ref. I took the pic and tried to upload it but the RIL is acting strange today . . . so if anyone else wants to use it let me know and I'll e-mail a higher quality copy to you.

I don't know yet what I'll do to this one - either cross hatch or a mixture.

yabby
11-09-2005, 02:20 PM
Hi all,

Just coming back with an update of my airy tree (just part of it to show more details)
Judi: Is this what you think of re-dark and separation between trunk and foliage?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4038952&postcount=198

Judi1957
11-09-2005, 02:37 PM
Hi Yabby! :wave:
I think it is a lovely tree and your work is beautiful. I guess what I should have said was make a greyscale a check out those wonderful darks there. The darks of the foliage is what I should have said as well. :o
You are getting there. Attached is a greyscale and I think you will see what I mean. :)
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2005/37258-yabbygrey.jpg

JayD
11-09-2005, 02:42 PM
Yabby dabby doooo! I like it--you've got something there that looks very pointalistic.

Troy Rochford
11-09-2005, 02:45 PM
Yabby youve got the right idea with the shadow and all, but the tree looks white-washed now. Pay close attn to the reference and deepen your values accordingly, and this will look great!

Fireman's kid
11-09-2005, 02:59 PM
Hi all! :wave:

A question for those of you with the fancy, dancy pen sets. I picked my reference last night and it has some areas of very light value. I want to do these areas with a small pen so I can get the smaller scribbles CJ recommended. Right now I have a size 03 (.35mm) Micron. If I buy only one more Micron, what size would you recommend? I saw sizes 005, 01 and 02 at Michaels today.

Thanks for the input!

On a side note...Jeanette please try to refrain from complimenting Troy too much. You're just so darned clever Troy! We can barely control him as it is. :evil:

JayD
11-09-2005, 03:01 PM
This is personal preference but I am partial to the .005's.

yabby
11-09-2005, 03:08 PM
Judi and Troy .. thanks for your help.... back to the drawing board ...for now and will try to post tomorrow.

Cathie Jones
11-09-2005, 03:21 PM
Stacy - look here http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/3698/194/ for a tutorial from our fearless leader, Murray, on Microns and P&I techniques.

Comparing the rapidographs to the microns, I think my .30 rapidograph has about the same line as the .007 micron.

Troy Rochford
11-09-2005, 03:41 PM
Stacy you should try paying attention to the class lessons that I write. I linked Murray's article at the beginning of this lesson. Good lord, woman....;)

CatEyes
11-09-2005, 04:25 PM
CJ: WOW!! It's stunning!! Great job.

Yabby: excellent work.

Here's my attempt(s) The top is my first, didn't care for it at all, so I tryed again. I like it much better, still have a lot to do on it. I'm almost embarrassed to show it with all the great work yall are doing.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2005/62985-pandI.jpeg

Cathie Jones
11-09-2005, 05:10 PM
Stacy you should try paying attention to the class lessons that I write. I linked Murray's article at the beginning of this lesson. Good lord, woman....;)

Yeah, Troy, but that was over a week and 231 posts ago!!

IslanderNL
11-09-2005, 07:04 PM
With some more darks that drawing is going to really sing Yabby. Great job!

Well Stacy, you see I'm buttering Troy up for next drawing I'm doing to do. So far, its not a pretty sight...:)

Troy Rochford
11-09-2005, 07:24 PM
Tia where's your reference? Lookign at your pic above, I'd have to say I like the first one better, actually. Looks more natural. Don't over-think it.

Mary Woodul
11-09-2005, 07:38 PM
JayD thank you for your comment. :)

Troy, your drawing of the moutha dn bones is unbelievable. Ican't get over the precison of your design on the bones. Without a doubt you can do what ever you want to as far the highest standard realism. ;)

Yabby, I really like your tree, it conveys peacefulness.

Tia, your coming along, there. :)

CJ, Your matted tree looks great! :clap: :clap:

Hi everyone! :wave:

Cathie Jones
11-09-2005, 08:18 PM
:wave: Hi Mary!

Mary Woodul
11-09-2005, 08:30 PM
Hi CJ! :wave:

Judi1957
11-09-2005, 08:34 PM
Hi CJ! :wave:

Hi Mary! :wave:

Hi Troy! :wave:

IslanderNL
11-09-2005, 08:59 PM
Sounds like the Waltons here.....night Jim Bob...:D

Judi1957
11-09-2005, 09:01 PM
Hi Jeanette-Bob(? :eek: ) :wave:

Fireman's kid
11-09-2005, 09:10 PM
Stacy you should try paying attention to the class lessons that I write. I linked Murray's article at the beginning of this lesson. Good lord, woman..
For your information, Mr. Smarty Pants, I do pay attention and I read Murray's article. I was looking for some personal preferences from people, especially other beginners. Just forget it. Sheesh!
:D

Hi everyone else! :wave: :)

Cathie Jones
11-09-2005, 10:46 PM
I like your the leaves in your signature, Stacy! :clap:

Nite Judi-Bob :wave: Nite Jeanette-Bob:wave:

DBSullivan
11-09-2005, 11:18 PM
Sounds like the Waltons here.....night Jim Bob...:D http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/09-Nov-2005/61349-rofl.gif

JayD
11-09-2005, 11:22 PM
good night--all you bobs!

DBSullivan
11-09-2005, 11:32 PM
What's all this about "Bobs"???.. the only Bob I know is my attorney from Laublaw & Assoc.
You guys ever hear of him?... His name is Bob Laublaw!

mhimeswc
11-10-2005, 07:51 AM
I love your bonsai, CJ! :clap:

It looks great matted.

Michelle

Cathie Jones
11-10-2005, 09:47 AM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Nov-2005/23460-Smiley_too_funny.gif
What's all this about "Bobs"???.. the only Bob I know is my attorney from Laublaw & Assoc.
You guys ever hear of him?... His name is Bob Laublaw!

CatEyes
11-10-2005, 10:42 AM
Tia where's your reference?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/05-Nov-2005/62985-classrefernce.jpg


EDIT:
Oh Foof!!! Of course I read that now!!! lolol... well here's what I worked on last night... I guess I can work the other one as well and see what happens. Two for one!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/10-Nov-2005/62985-PandI2.jpeg

Cathie Jones
11-10-2005, 11:41 AM
Tia, I like the way this is coming along!! :clap:

JayD
11-10-2005, 01:17 PM
Tia, its lookin really good --keep at it!

Cathie Jones
11-10-2005, 01:36 PM
Dave's "Part 3" is posted . . . http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306304 :clap: