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LorraineG
10-24-2005, 09:42 AM
Hi,

I thought I would start this thread to show (those who want to know) the different types of fur texture on Velour, using just three types of strokes.

I use three sides of my pastel stick. lol....I can almost hear you saying eh wheres the third side!!.

1. The flat side. I break my pastel stick to about 1-2 inches and use the whole of the flat side. I use this for covering large areas, e.g flat coats and underpainting.

2. The tip. The nice sharp point is great for fine lines.

3. Here is the sneeky one!!. The belly side (made that name up myself lol). It is the side of the point. Just the side of the top of the pastel, not the whole side. This gives thick fur strokes. Here is a picky.

The first photo is of curly fur. I have zoomed in close so you can see exactly where I have used the flat side, the belly side and the tip.

The second photo is of smooth coated fur. I have used mostly the flat side of the pastel and then here and there used the belly side and then a few tip sides.

The third photo is of long fur on a dog. Again I have zoomed in so you can see where the flat, belly and tips have been used.

The forth photo is of long fur for cats. I used a lot of the flat side and then put whisps in with the belly side and a few tips.

The belly side I use more than the tip side as using just the tips can make fur look sharp and bristly. Good for hedgehogs :D

I hope I have made sense.

Piper Ballou
10-24-2005, 09:53 AM
thanks so much for these tips...I am on my way to work but will be back later to really study this...this is great..
piper

K Taylor-Green
10-24-2005, 11:31 AM
This is great, Lorraine! Only question I have, is what pastels are you using. This sounds like Nupastels and other hard sticks. I use them too, but mostly for detail work.

scall0way
10-24-2005, 11:38 AM
I'm not sure I can actually tell, from your pix, which side of the pastels you use for each stroke, but I just want to say how fabulous they are. What wonderful fur.

LorraineG
10-24-2005, 11:42 AM
Hi thanks, Piper and Kate, Scalloway,

Kate, I use Faber Castell Polychromos pastels. They are excellent to use with velour. No pastel dust gets the surrounding areas dirty. It holds really well.

The only other pastel I use is Creta black and brown if I want to darken my darks, as they are darker than the Fabers. I do use Nupastel, but not very much. Fabers are what I use the most.

Scalloway, I will do a little sample of the strokes and post it to help.

Lorraine

darlingart
10-24-2005, 09:54 PM
Lorraine, thanks for this demo! You are one of the artists that has inspired me to try pastels for my animal pieces:)

Can you tell me what colours in the polychromos you use the most for pet portraits? I only have a set of 72 Derwent pastel pencils - I have only used them for underpaintings in three colour pencil portraits, but after doing two pure pastel portraits I think I would like to expand my pastel range a little bit, without going too overboard on more supplies. I only have Canson Mi-tientes at the moment, do you happen to know if the Derwent Pastel pencils work ok on the velour paper?

Michelle

Khadres
10-24-2005, 11:42 PM
Great info! Thanks for sharing your expertise! Can't wait to go "belly up" to a poodle painting! Also, do these strokes also work on other surfaces? What would you do differently on say, Canson or a sanded paper? I know, questions, question, questions! :D

Piper Ballou
10-25-2005, 12:14 AM
Lorraine...thanks so much for posting this information. I have found it to be a great help.
piper

Paula Ford
10-25-2005, 04:45 AM
C o o l !

Thanks for such great info.

Paula

jessamina
10-25-2005, 07:12 AM
wow, thanks lorraine!

i'm slowly getting a little better with fur but do struggle still, with the fur on your cats and dogs, how do you get the edges so soft looking? i think i might be too heavy handed sometimes, i lightened the pressure on the pastel today and it looked better but it still needs to look softer.

also, how do you get the overall soft filter effect in your work? i find mine looks a little harsh sometimes and i would love to know how to soften the effect.

i would also love to know how to put backgrounds in, i have tried but i can never seem to get the fur to look right over the background...

lastly, how do you sharpen a hard pastel?

sorry for all the questions, these are just some one's iv'e been wanting to ask for a long time.

thanks!


jess :wave:

LorraineG
10-25-2005, 07:16 AM
Thanks Michelle, Khadres, piper, Paula.

Michelle.....Can you tell me what colours in the polychromos you use the most for pet portraits? I only have a set of 72 Derwent pastel pencils - I have only used them for underpaintings in three colour pencil portraits, but after doing two pure pastel portraits I think I would like to expand my pastel range a little bit, without going too overboard on more supplies. I only have Canson Mi-tientes at the moment, do you happen to know if the Derwent Pastel pencils work ok on the velour paper? Hi Michelle, Yes you can use Derwent pastel pencils. There don't scratch like some pastel pencils.

The Faber pastel colours I use are just a few. I have a box full of unused colours!!!!. I use the warms greys, cool greys, browns, cream, white, blacks, and sandy orangey colours like burnt ochre and similar colours like it. I also use light blue, dark blue and light violet. These ones are good for highlights.


Khadres...Also, do these strokes also work on other surfaces? What would you do differently on say, Canson or a sanded paper? I know, questions, question, questions! Hi Khadres, I haven't used Canson for years. But I do remember I was having to blend with my fingers a lot and filling in the little holes with a pastel shaper. The fur texture on that paper I did with pastel pencils over the top of my base painting which had been blended. I used my Rembrandts on that paper. I am still learning to use the Wallis paper and really enjoying it. I use my Rembrandts with this paper and use the side of the pastel, letting the pastel do the blending for me. The fur texture I use the side of the pastel, I very lightly skim over the sanded surface and it leaves a lovely broken streak which gives the impression of fur. Then I top it up with the pastel pencils Stabilo Carbothello are good on this paper. As I say, I am still learning on this paper, so there is probably another way to do fur on it. Would love to hear how other people do fur on Wallis?

Here is couple of pictures of close ups of fur on Wallis and Art Spectrum. The first one is Wallis.

LorraineG
10-25-2005, 07:19 AM
Hi Jess,

Sorry we cross posted. I didn't see you until I posted my replies. I'm just off to get the kids some lunch and I will be back with a reply.

Lorraine

jessamina
10-25-2005, 07:22 AM
Lorraine,

i thought that happened :)

thankyou, i really appreciate the fur demo too, i printed it out so i can study it.



jess :wave:

LorraineG
10-25-2005, 09:17 AM
Hi Jess, :wave:

Here are some answers to your questions.

i'm slowly getting a little better with fur but do struggle still, with the fur on your cats and dogs, how do you get the edges so soft looking? i think i might be too heavy handed sometimes, i lightened the pressure on the pastel today and it looked better but it still needs to look softer.

also, how do you get the overall soft filter effect in your work? i find mine looks a little harsh sometimes and i would love to know how to soften the effect.
To get the soft edges on velour, press very lightly. Start off very lightly and increase the pressure slowly until you get the effect you want.

would also love to know how to put backgrounds in, i have tried but i can never seem to get the fur to look right over the background...
I start putting the background in before the subject, going over the edges of the subject a little. It doesn't matter if you go over the edges of the subject as it will be covered up once you start filling in the subject. Hope that makes sense.

lastly, how do you sharpen a hard pastel?
I use sand paper. It is like a little strip of wood with little strips of sand paper on that I can peel off. Not sure what it is called, but you can get them from most art supplies.

Hope I have helped :)

p.s How do I get the quotes to say who quoted them?

jessamina
10-25-2005, 09:22 AM
Thanks for your help!

under every post there is a little button that says 'quote' if you click on it, it will take you to the reply screen with the quote at the beginning of your reply.




jess :wave:

johndill01
10-25-2005, 10:17 AM
I don't do this very often, but I have rated this thread with 5 stars. Much needed help for painting fur. Thanks much.

John

LorraineG
10-25-2005, 11:59 AM
Thanks Jess and John,

I am glad I could help. :)

Piper Ballou
10-25-2005, 07:45 PM
Lorraine,
Have you ever had trouble with pastel falling off of velour?

and what do you do if you have made a big mistake, like an eye is wrong...can you cover it up with pastel and start over, so my next question, I know wallis paper holds lots and lots of layers, does one need to be careful with the layers on velour? Maybe that is why people say some of their pastel falls off, too many layers?
and (last one I promise) have you had any trouble shipping with velour?
thanks again
piper

ps...I also gave this a 5 star rating, very vauable information here, thanks so much lorraine

LorraineG
10-26-2005, 07:18 AM
Lorraine,
Have you ever had trouble with pastel falling off of velour?

and what do you do if you have made a big mistake, like an eye is wrong...can you cover it up with pastel and start over, so my next question, I know wallis paper holds lots and lots of layers, does one need to be careful with the layers on velour? Maybe that is why people say some of their pastel falls off, too many layers?
and (last one I promise) have you had any trouble shipping with velour?
thanks again
piper

ps...I also gave this a 5 star rating, very vauable information here, thanks so much lorraine

Hi Piper,

No I haven't had any trouble with pastel falling off the velour. I really do think it depends on what pastels are used. I only use Fabers and Cretas and a little pastel pencil on it. I did an experiment recently, because I kept reading that people were having problems with pastel falling off. I coloured in seperate blocks using different pastels for each block. The pastels I used were, Faber Castel, Rembrandts, Cretas, Unisons, Nupastel. I then flicked hard the back of the velour paper with my finger to see what happened with each of them. Here is what I found.

1. Fabers held tight. Hardly any dust at all fell, if any.

2. Cretas. Same as the Fabers, hardly any jumped at all, if any.

3. Nupastel these were okish. They did jump off but not enough to ruin the painting.

4. Rembrandts. These jumped off. Not drastically, but enough for me not to use them.

5. Unisons. These were the worst. I would say 90% of it fell off. Definately would have a lost painting!!!.

I haven't tried any other makes as I don't have them.

Correcting big mistakes on velour is extremely hard or impossible depending how big!. Velour is not very forgiving at all. I do a light tonal underpainting to get the likeness. If I find the eye is not in the right postion I can correct it. However if I have started covering the painting with colour and the eye looks well off, then I would have to start again. However if I was just making it larger or smaller, it can be done easily. Wallis is far better for making corrections, I just brush the area off and start that area again, but with velour you can't. Velour does take lots of layers. I had done paintings that have had tons of layers because I couldn't get the right colour. Fabers let you use lots of layers as they don't put down too much pastel in one go.

Shipping the paintings has been fine. I have shipped framed ones to Japan and the US and have all got there fine. Also I have shipped unframed to the US and europe. The framed ones get wrapped in loads of bubble wrap, then I put cardboard front and back (larger than the frame so the cardboard takes the bashing and not the frame corner). Then I put it in a double wall cardboard box, biger than the painting and put packaging down the sides. (I have had emails from clients laughing at how long it has taken them to unpack it lol).

The unframed ones I followed the guidance from someone here on wetcanvas, I can't remember her name, but she makes up a custom package of two sheets of foamcore or hardboard side by side and puts tape down the middle to make a book that opens. Then in the inner side of the left hand side puts a sheet of glassaline (can't spell I know!!) and the painting on the right hand side. Then when the book is shut the "thingymebob" sheet protects the painting.
I also put an instruction sheet in with it to tell the client, do not take the painting out of this book until taken to the framers and then carefull handling by the framer is a must.

Piper Ballou
10-26-2005, 09:54 AM
Thanks again for the valuable information. I have some Nupastels and have been using them and will be ordering some Fabers...yipppeee, new pastels for me.
thanks again
piper

Reba
11-09-2005, 05:01 PM
Lorraine, thanks for all the tips in this thread, and thanks for recommending this website! It is so kind of you to share your techniques! Such beautiful work!!!

~Rebekah

LorraineG
11-10-2005, 08:41 AM
Thanks Rebekah,

I'm glad I can help.

I'm glad you joined us. Everyone is so friendly and gives loads of support and help. You will get addicted to this site. :)

Lorraine

K Taylor-Green
11-10-2005, 11:29 AM
Lorraine, This is all wonderful info for anyone wanting to work on velour. I, also, have rated this with 5 stars. I would love to see this in the Library.

Rebekah, Welcome to the Pastels Forum!! I hope you introduce yourself, and show your work to the forum. From your signature line, it looks wonderful!

LorraineG
11-10-2005, 01:54 PM
Lorraine, This is all wonderful info for anyone wanting to work on velour. I, also, have rated this with 5 stars. I would love to see this in the Library.

Rebekah, Welcome to the Pastels Forum!! I hope you introduce yourself, and show your work to the forum. From your signature line, it looks wonderful!


Thank you Kate,

Rebekah.....I agree with Kate, welcome to the pastel forum. I have been on your website and your work is truly beautiful. Looking forward to seeing you post some of your work here.

Lorraine

chewie
11-10-2005, 11:26 PM
yes, nice work and sucha big thanks for the thread!!

TFB
12-31-2005, 10:54 PM
Wow! What a great thread. I, too, will have to buy some Faber Castell Polychromos pastels. I only have soft pastels Rembrandts, Unison and Shminke. I did 2 pastels on velour, loved the texture, but did them with Rembrandts and Shminke. They were destroyed at the framers...the Shminke fell off completely and most of the Rembrandts. I vowed not to touch the stuff again....but will give it another try with FB.

Thanks for all that wonderful info,
TFB

ps I have given it 5 stars, i think, if I have done it correctly

jmp
01-12-2006, 09:31 AM
hi lorraine
i paint mostly wildlife, w/ the occasional request for a pet portrait- i think the velour paper really makes a difference when rendering fur, you get that soft look with half the effort. your paintings are beautiful, but i think the best part is the eyes - if you can get the eyes right, you've got it! that's where the animal's soul comes through, and i think that's what the pets owners are really looking for! i work on art spectrum and pastel board, but i think
should order some velour for a donation i have coming up...

jmp
01-12-2006, 09:34 AM
also, in a animal painting book by lesley harrison, she uses girault pastels on velour. i haven't had any disasters where the pastel came off the paper, but i do mount the paper on foamcore first, and i do my own framing - you have to be gentle...though harrison says that she ships her work all over the world with no trouble...maybe we should call her!

jmp
01-12-2006, 09:38 AM
hi lorraine
i paint mostly wildlife, w/ the occasional request for a pet portrait- i think the velour paper really makes a difference when rendering fur, you get that soft look with half the effort. your paintings are beautiful, but i think the best part is the eyes - if you can get the eyes right, you've got it! that's where the animal's soul comes through, and i think that's what the pets owners are really looking for! i work on art spectrum and pastel board, but i think
should order some velour for a donation i have coming up...

LorraineG
01-13-2006, 03:37 AM
Hi jmp,

Welcome to Wet Canvas and thank you for your comments.

Yes, I agree it is the eyes that are the sole. I love using velour for fur texture, although I have also painted fur on Wallis and on Art Spectrum, they are equally as good for fur.

I also frame my paintings myself and have shipped framed and unframed all over the world and never had any trouble.

I look forward to seeing some of your wildlife paintings.

Lorraine

jmp
01-13-2006, 08:13 AM
thanks for the welcome, i don't have a scanner or a digital camera so I'll need one or both to post my work...a gallery that shows my work has a website but i don't know if I'm going to get one myself...

silverhalo
01-16-2006, 04:14 PM
Wow, this was an incredibly helpful post! :) I recently purchased a single sheet of velour from DickBlick (they're very expensive!), and I'll be trying out your techniques on animal fur very soon!

Out of curiosity, how do you frame a pastel on velour artwork? Somebody once told me that you 'NEED' to frame the picture right up against the glass...

LorraineG
01-17-2006, 03:33 AM
Wow, this was an incredibly helpful post! :) I recently purchased a single sheet of velour from DickBlick (they're very expensive!), and I'll be trying out your techniques on animal fur very soon!

Out of curiosity, how do you frame a pastel on velour artwork? Somebody once told me that you 'NEED' to frame the picture right up against the glass...

Hello Silverhalo,

I frame my paintings behind glass but with a mount/matt between the glass and the painting. If using the right sort of pastels you wont have any problems with pastel falling off the velour. Here is a pic of a framed painting I have waiting to go out in the mail.

Nata
01-19-2006, 01:35 AM
Thanks for the posts. :clap: Using mostly soft pastels, this confirms my thoughts about the pastel falling off. When I tried more fixative, it transformed the pastel into a crumbly mess on the velour.:eek:

I stored all my velour away after the disasters but will give it a try with the few harder pastel sticks I have, i.e.conte

Has anybody used oil pastels on velour?

LorraineG
01-19-2006, 05:26 AM
Hi Angela,

Sure, give it another try with different pastels. I use Faber Castell pastels and I use fixative (Lascaux) and it doesn't change the painting what so ever. So much so, sometimes I can't remember if I have sprayed it or not, so I give it another spray!!!

I have used a little oil pastel on the velour, I wanted an area really dark once, so I used black oil pastel. It was only a small area, but it worked fine. Would love to see some paintings in oil pastel on the velour if anyone has used it?

Nata
01-20-2006, 01:38 AM
Thanks again. I tried to upload an image in my last post to show what happened after I spray fixed soft pastel on velour. Especially the light colours became very crumbly. Some artists may like this effect but it was not what I intended.

Try to upload again - hope it works this time:o

karenelkan
09-01-2006, 09:07 AM
I was thrilled to see what you do on the velour. I was ready to give up because of the "falling off". I was using Remb. & Unison....I will definately keep those for my Wallis paper and will get the F-C Polychromos....that's the brand I use and love with my colored pencil work.

You were a tremendous help. Thank you so much!


Karen

Usha
01-21-2007, 09:10 AM
I am new to Pastels, and this thread is very informative. Thanks a lot for sharing all your expertise!

:)

pastellar
03-10-2007, 02:51 PM
Lorraine, thanks for all the info on velour! Particularly on the "dust shedding"problem! I've only done a couple of pictures on velour and was really concerned about shedding with soft pastels, so I used fixative reluctantly, now I'll only use hard pastels - Nupastels (the black is really intense) and Cretas, and of course p.pencils. Again many thanks!:lol: I give this a 5 rating!!

jemgold
04-02-2007, 11:20 PM
Thanks for the demo - great job!
I've used the velour in painting animals and love it. However, I did have a problem with pastel coming off in one larger piece I did - believe I used nupastels and a few rembrants. I love the Girualt pastels - they are hard enough to work good but not as hard as nupastels

artlady free
04-05-2007, 10:06 PM
I just started using velour again today with great results and soooo much fun to do. Thanks for the info on the different types of pastels for darks!
Cathi