View Full Version : How to decide warm/cold/between???

09-29-2005, 05:26 AM
LMAO i had no idea how long this would be but... This is more of a rant than anything, but if you feel inclined to respond i wont object lol)

Im in the middle of building compartments for my Unison collection of which i have all the sets, but im wanting to seperate all the colors into their own families. Im sure this has been talked about before but i cant find anything specific. Could someone advice me please?

I know red, and yellows are warm, and green and blues are cold, but as most of you all know Unisons has SEVERAL families of colors, i went to their site to see all these on one page, and i still cannot decide which way to go with most of them.

Additional colors? are these nutrual? most are greyed except for the few bright reds and yellows that are in that collection.
And what exactly is a BLUE ORANGE??? This color shows up in Unisons portrait set AND Giraults portrait set of which i have.

Oh and if the name of the pastel starts out with the name, Yellow green, does that mean that it has the yellow as a base and it is a warm color, or am i just reaching here for some kind of understanding?

And did you know that on the Dickblick site, it gives NAMES of what the special selection set? I came across that today, so at least 18 of my unisons have actual color names now.

Does it seem like im a bit aggitated? lol Im sorry for that. I have almost 2500 pastels some are handmade but most ive been buying off and on for about 5 years, and im tired of having to dig them out of drawers and closets when i need to paint. Anyone have this problem? Are the three drawered pastel storage box from blick or jerries worth it? they seem so small i would need around 30 of them :eek: ! (ok im going overboard a bit)

I know this is an ongoing thing for pastelists. and i swear one day i will come up with the perfect storage solution lol. and share with you all.

Ive thought about seperating them by , just reds or just yellows, etc, but i think thats not possible, and seems like it would take up just that much more space, and besides, what if theres a red with blue in it, i do believe i start laughing hysterically trying to figure out which side of the fence to put it lol.

Ok how about this, exactly how many color families are there?? from warm to cool? Cause it just doesnt seem logical that there are only three families, warm, cool and nuetral. Wait i think im getting a thought..........oh yes, there it is, warm, nuetral THEN cool! is that how it works???? but where do the greys go, are they their own families, warm greys (w/red and yellow) cool greys (w/ blue and green), but what about those MOUSE greys by sennelier lol, MY GAWD, its no wonder that the people that live with us think we are bonkers sometimes lol. Greys that are just black and white are nuetral, yes??

Thats it! I say we start an ON-GOING sticky about pastel colors and each set of families they belong to.

Starting with RED! From where it starts to where it ends and goes into , wait would it be orange or yellow??

You really cannot go by digital colors, i tried to take pics of my pastels and arrange them by value in greyscale, and then compared that to SCANS of my pastels, HAHA! sooo did not work!

I know there are TONS of pastels out there from SEVERAL manufacturers, BUT, we ALL have our faves: Unisons, schmickes, rembrandts, senneliers, rowneys, Mt. Vision (which by the way have great auctions on ebay now) , Terrys (which are WONDERFUL but still, need names!), etc, etc,

Oil, acrylic, watercolor, etc, ALL have names on the tubes, why is it so hard for pastel makers to do the same? I understand the amount of work that goes into making pastels, and then having to put names on each set could be time consuming, (though im sure there are some of you that have Terries "eggplant" pastel, that is a mixture of black and , darn forgot that purple name, but ya know what im talking about!) That is the ONLY pastel i have come across that is FITTING, MOUSE GREY.........no, not fitting so much.

Is this what they mean by a pastel breakdown??? wheres that little yellow face emoticon from yahoo going crazy??? Ah but now they have a new one that pulls its hair out, but im not at that stage.------YET.

You know, i think ill go back to oils, i had more fun obsessing over paint brushes and it didnt cost as much :p .

Thank you for letting me rant. You may now go back to what you were doing before you got sucked into my post.......muahahahah.


09-29-2005, 05:43 AM
Had another thought.

If only we could find out what all the PURE colors are from each manufactuer, maybe that would help?? Yes/no?

oooooh or how bout if each manufacturer made their own COLOR WHEELS!?

I like that idea. Think any would go for it?

Kathryn Wilson
09-29-2005, 09:35 AM
LOL - glad you had a good rant. I am sure you'll have lots of company in this thread before too long. I can really feel your pain - been there, done it. I finally emptied all my pastels into large, flat trays and can't be bothered to have them ranged from warm to cool - I just grouped yellows, reds, blues, and greens. For me it works. I can at least see what pastels I've got all in one place.

Pat Isaac
09-29-2005, 10:06 AM
I'm with you, Kat. I use several brands of oil pastels and have them grouped in containers according to their base color. Red, blue, green,yellow, etc. Works for me too.


09-29-2005, 10:24 AM
[b]I have almost 2500 pastels some are handmade but most ive been buying off and on for about 5 years

2500 pastels! :eek: Yowzers, I see I'm going to have to get on the ball here. I have less than 100 total, actually about 60 total I think, now that I add them up - a 25-color set of NuPastels, a 15-color set of Rembrants, a 16-color set of Senneliers, and about a half dozen extra NuPastels I boought individually. All the pastels I own could fit into a medium-sized purse, including the boxes they come in! 2500? LOL, I'd be so overwhelmed by my choices that I would probably never get anything done! :D

09-29-2005, 12:16 PM
I'd be so overwhelmed by my choices that I would probably never get anything done!

I laughted so hard at that statement i snorted! LOL, you hit it on the nose sista! Not getting a freakin thing done, i have overwhelmed myself. After 5 years of buying the things, and i finally got them all out in front of me i thought to myself, howd the hell did this happen?!

Im working on a solution tho. And hopefully ill figure out something before i go blind :eek: . how ironic would that be?! HA!

09-29-2005, 01:03 PM
You sound very much like I did when I was trying to sort my sketchbox full of pastels...which was a far lesser number than my own couple thousand by virtue of the box's size limits and I STILL couldn't figure out how to get them neatly into their proper value and temperature rankings! Like Kat, I finally gave it up and opted for just arranging the things in families (red, blue, yellow, etc.) and left it at that. As far as the grays...the go wherever I think they should...looks kinda bluish to me, it goes with the blues...kinda green, goes with the greens...and if it's NEUTRAL, it goes with the vast array of NEUTRALS/EARTHS and devil take the hindmost! Works fairly well and I don't worry about it otherwise.

As to having all those pastels out at one time or easily reachable at least...'tain't easy, but I did it for awhile by completely covering a couple tables (still had to put the hard pastels on a huge tray thing which stacked on top). It was wonderful seeing them all like that, but it left me no space to fit even an elbow or even a cuppa joe, so I finally put some back away but hopefully accessible still. This restored some sanity to the situatio altho I still have to restrain myself from laughing maniacally each time I sit down at the easel.

As for the great Unison "Additionals, Greys, and Specials"....I do the same thing with those as everything else....if it looks reddish, goes in the reds, bluish, goes in the blues, etc. That's when I mix them in with everything else...when I segregate them, however, they go in their Unison families in numbered order....just because that's the way the Brits made 'em and they look kinda nice that way.

What I HAVE learned is that how I arrange 'em doesn't really matter as long as I know my pastels well enough to know that I DO have that funny orange and it's likely in the Unison box or wherever....having them all out for awhile helped in that regard.

My next experiments will be to try using just ONE brand at a time in paintings to research which set seems to be my personal favorite. I suspect, however, what I'll find is that I still need to buy that full monty set of Great Americans!! :evil:

BTW, you said Mt. Visions are on auction on eBay these days??? WHERE???

09-29-2005, 10:58 PM
Color temperature, like value works on the visual plane causing things to move forward or recede backward. In and of themselves they don't really do much, it is the relationships that count. If you have two colors of equal value the warmer one will seem to be closer than the cooler one. Yellow is the warmest color, followed by red, and blue.
Starting with red- most red pigments are bluish, so it is harder to make warm red pastels. This is where cadmium pigment comes in handy- there are some lovely warm reds. The other factor that I find is that Titanium white is slightly bluish also so most of the pinks come out cooler, which actually might be a good thing since they will sit on the page better and not be popping out all over. I've been trying to make a nice warm pink and it is not as easy as I thought it would be.
Where this might become confusing is that you can have a bluish red (for simplicity sake-think Alizarin Crimson) that is cooler than a yellow green.
I guess you could try to think of some perfect world where one had a perfect red, blue, and yellow and then worked off of these to try and get a handle on which were warmer, etc. A cerulean blue is warmer than an Ultramarine blue because it is greener, thinking such teal would be warmer still. What gets tricky is that by adding red (another warm color) you get purple (duh?) So that perfect blue is as cool as you can get. So which is warmer a slightly reddish purple or a greenish blue? It depends, it could be either depending on the color (ie. how much red, how much yellow), just put them next to each other and decide for yourself.
Making a true neutral is pretty interesting also, (is that the meaning of the older term "dead color"?) Trying to neutralize a colors predominate temperature can make for some interesting colors. This orange-blue that was spoken brings two things to mind. Today I was making one of my neutral figure colors which uses an orangey brown pigment which by itsself is kind of like an orange flesh tones- and mixes with it some ultramarine blue. Now the coolness of the blue helps to cancel out the warm of the orange and helps to bring it to an almost "dead" stage. The trick was to find the right amount of blue to add to make the right tone for a figure. On the other side of the line is the very weird blue grey that I've seen in thunderstorms here in Florida. It is as if you were mixing orange into the blue but it was still blue but almost warm- I've been trying to figure out how to make this one on and off for a couple of years, I've got the name for it- Thunderstorm Grey- now if I could only get the color.
I've often wondered about making a chromatic set, I wasn't sure if people would find it useful.
Was any of this helpful?

09-29-2005, 11:11 PM
Yes! Very helpful! a chromatic set would be great, i think.


I went to the above address and was reading about a the Munsell system when i got the email that someone had posted to this thread, thank you Mr. Kelly for your response! I think i now have a better idea of how this works. Visually on a palette (in my case, huge tables) i would like to have my pastels organized like i see on the munsell scale, but i thought that since most of the color wheels we have are printed or digital we really couldnt rely on them, BUT, ive had a little change of heart, because at least that system gives us an IDEA of placement for such colors that are tottering on the warm/cool side, when you figure in the neutrals you have a better understanding of complimentary colors (am i close here?). If you take a red, blue and yellow pastel, then compare say that "mouse" grey from senn to each of those colors you will see which HUE it is leaning towards, helping you figure out if your icky mouse color is a warm or a cool. (please say im on to something here lol).

Im experimenting right now with everything i have, and im ACTUALLY having fun. :P

That thunderstorm grey sound WONDERFUL Mr. Kelly, i wish you tons of luck, cause i would love to have it! If you need someone to test your "exotic" new colors, and is the "in between" faze of their art journey, my standards are not to high nor to low, i can offer TONS of help. (wink wink) LOL...


09-29-2005, 11:15 PM
Ohhh, I wouldn't mind trying one of those Thunderstorm Greys if you find it!

09-30-2005, 03:07 AM
Evening. or should i say morning its 12:45 am.

Im still on my mission, im sure tho that ill run out of steam sometime or another, but til then ---

Karl you mentioned that Yellow is the Warmest of the warms, i thought red was? I thought about it for a bit and came to the conclusion that i assumed red was the warmest not because of its temperature but because also its value.

As i sat tonight looking at my array of pastels and having a little bit more understanding on how to "see" them, i realized that my initial aggrevation was based on wanting "visual" harmony on my palette, BUT, the conclusion that im coming to is that the harmony should be understood with actually PAINTING.

This is where my problem begins, I have painted in monochramtic for so long, that if i want to introduce other colors into my paintings , i end up with a garish , unbalanced result.

So in your experience (anyone that reads this that is), have you ever came across something that had total harmony as far as, a good balance between warm, neutral, and cool colors, with a foreground, middle and distant background, wasnt to busy, nor stagnet, fresh enough that you can almost smell or taste (in your minds eye) the air, folage, or water, ----my discription could go on but i think i just described a fantasy painting lol. Can ya tell that i live in a city, i think i need to get out more :o

Sigh, im going to go paint :)

09-30-2005, 08:44 AM
Yellow is the warmest because of its value and because alot of reds are slightly bluish in their makeup.
It is in the painting that the temperature relationships come to the fore. A warm mouse grey that was used around other warm colors may not be warm enough and hence look cool- even if compared to a cool grey on the palette.
As far as coming across something with total harmony- in nature , never- it just doesn't work like that.
In art, maybe that is why I find 18th century french academic painting so boring is its attempt to make everything perfect. The only thing left is to think about the story of theme of the painting, it is the start of conceptual art.
There are certain paintings by Pissarro that take my breath away in their capture of the landscape and even the temperature. Dealing with more neutral color I think Corot's paintings, his plein-aire paintings in Italy (as I remember) are really amazing as are Morandi's still lifes of bottles.
The other person who talked alot about color, as you probably know, was Hans Hoffman. His small book, Search for the Real, can give you a whole different appreciation of color- as do his paintings.

09-30-2005, 09:07 AM
Hello N. I don't have any helpful information for you. Frankly I think you've set yourself a hopeless task in trying to organise that many colours satisfactorily. All you can really do, I'm afraid, is go back to your oils, and in the meantime send those 2,500 unwanted pastel sticks to me at the following address ... ;) :)

09-30-2005, 11:32 AM
E-J - you're evil :evil:

CM Neidhofer
09-30-2005, 12:46 PM
I've just finished trying to sort my various sets of pastels into color families. It IS so hard! I finally opted for yellow groups, yellow-orange, orange, red, red-violet, violet, blue violet, blue, blue-green, greens and yellow-greens and then miscellaneous pinks, blacks/whites/grays and earth tones. Of course, I can't decide which group most of them go into, so just a best guess....at best! I never tried this before and my sets were still in their original boxes. Now they're sorted down to three tackle box type boxes that close snugly and I could take them along with me if I ever decide to go plein air. What a chore!! :eek:


09-30-2005, 03:10 PM
So sorry to come in late, but I do hope the following helps sort out some of the confusion.

Re Warm/Cool.

It is well nigh impossible to "sort" your pastels into warms and cools, because warm and cool are relative terms - they depend to a great extent on adjacent colours. Yes, an acid yellow is cooler than a butter yellow, and on their own you will see a clear difference and a clear "title". A study of colour theory and the colour wheel will tell you WHY one is cool and the other is warm, but there is a caveat. IF YOU SURROUND ACID YELLOW (cool) WITH AN EVEN COLDER COLOUR, IT WILL APPEAR WARM!!!!!

Look at this:


The colour in the centre is the same in each case. Don't believe me? Print it off, fold it and check. It is exactly the same. So what would you call it? It is warm purple on the left ...but it's cool purple on the right!!! How confusing is that! Aargh! You could give a certain colour a title of warm or cool, but then, when you come to use it in a picture, it may well change character completely!
So the title "warm" or "cool" doesn't always help you.
Understanding the colour theory is important so that you can use that knowledge when you are painting; sorting things out in temperatures is not practical imho, and the above example shows why.


This means that the best way, and easiest and most useful way to sort your pastels is in colour families ...reds, blues, browns (if you want), greys, yellows, greens, purples - however many families you decide you want ....and THEN - this is the important bit - separate them into groups of LIGHTS, MEDIUM TONES AND DARKS. Getting your tones right in a painting is SO important, and this will help a lot.

Then my advice would be - Stop buying pastels. You have more than enough to work with. Too many in fact. Having another colour will not make you a better artist.


Deborah Secor
09-30-2005, 05:04 PM
Wow, NOYB, gotta tell ya that the first thought I had when I read your rant was that you should go into making pastels! Your analytical mind would be a wonder mixing pastel pigments. I'm not surprised that Karl answered you! 2500 pastels just has to mean that you have some duplicate colors, I think. I could be wrong...but I've often found when I had too much of a color, say an excessive number of greens, that I had dupes in my palette.

I've been painting in pastels for 20-some years now and in that whole time I've never paid any attention to the color names, & very little attention to how I would group them in my palette except as a means of locating them next time (well, I have them in rainbow order arranged from dark to light--but trust me, that order is very loose.) Albert Handell, who is a wonderful colorist, paints from a palette that is chaotic--literally little mounds of dusty pastels. He says he likes to be surprised...

Now, here's my question for anyone to answer: what makes a color NEUTRAL??? Is it true that neutral is as neutral does (in a painting, I mean)? Do you think neutrals are entirely temperature oriented? Or are they value driven, too? What about making your own neutrals (as in the ESP where we're talking about making your own grays...)

I have a set of colors from Bob Strohsahl (GAs) where he grayed each of the primary and secondary colors with its complement. Very interesting set! There's one gray in there that is a 'must' for me now. I'd love to see what other manufacturers come up with doing this. No two would be alike, I'm sure.


Pat Isaac
09-30-2005, 05:28 PM
I have always felt that neutrals were made with compliments. That is how I always make my neutrals and adding white as wanted. Mixing them in varying degress of pigment gives a wonderful range of neutrals. I never use black and have found that many degrees of black can be made by mixing compliments.


Deborah Secor
09-30-2005, 05:43 PM
Pat, I mix tertiaries to get my neutral colors, too, but I want to know what you think it is that makes a color function as a neutral color in a painting??? (Asked badly, I guess... ) Jackie's example of temperature is really illustrative. How can we demonstrate a neutral that way--or can we? Is it a non-color next to a color? Is a neutral color just one that isn't very saturated? Is it matching values? What IS a neutral color??? (I'm going off on a hunt for this answer and will let you all know if I come up with anything. It may end up being a book length answer to the ESP thread over in the soft pastels forum...)


09-30-2005, 06:13 PM
To Karl:

"The ability to simplify means to eliminate the unnecessary so that the necessary may speak. Hans Hoffman

I personally am not fond of abstract painting, but I do have an appreciation for the artists that create them as they do not hold back on their use of color. I do not rule out things that i am not fond of though, as every style holds some type of lesson to be learned.

Pissarro created wonderful works of art. The Chestnut Trees at Osny is one of my favorites. Lastnight i did have thoughts of using pointilsm.

I was on a big kick with 18th century art, but i dont think it was because how those artists try to paint everything perfect, it was the draftsmanship that drew me to their works.

I cannot forget the feeling i had the first time i went to The Nelson Atkins museum of art (it was the first time i had ever stepped foot into a museum, i know, ive lived a very sheltered life) . I stood in front of the painting by Merisi called Caravaggio, i had seen it so many times online and in books, but the impact it had on me in person made me realize that art, in my life, was not just a hobby. Then in another room was Ravissement de Psyche (Bouguereau), and my aunt had to DRAG me away from that!

I was totally in awe of just the size of them! For the longest time after that i had an obsession with painting fabric lol.

To E-J:

Well wouldya lookit that, ive ran out of steam----i think ill keep my pastels :wave: lol

To Jackie:

Ive seen your exercise about warm/cool in another thread, but thank you for posting it here too, and i agree with you that warm and cool are relative terms, as i stated before, I think that its all in how you use them in your paintings that you will get a better understanding of temperatures, i no longer want a harmonized palette, tho the analynical side of me screams for less chaos lol. I mentioned before that i stopped buying pastels a little bit ago because of this delimma and having another color doesnt make me a better artist, but, it does make me a good customer lol. (that was joke, i dont buy these things just for "collecting" sake, i LOVE color, even if it makes me bonkers sometimes, but thats half the fun, no?)

To Dee:

I just got the email that you posted. I did try to make my own pastels a little, a few years ago, i think i mentioned that i had some "handmade" ones within that 2500 collection, those are the ones i made. You are right i do have a few doubles, but those are kept seperate in a small chest just for doubles, and triples, of colors that i use the most, and i do not include them in my palette collection unless i have used one up. I have the full set of Unisons, Giraults, rembrandts, i think i am missing about 70 of the senneliers, but i didnt get the full set of those because at the time i couldnt find them where i was living, and ordering online hadnt become fashion yet. Almost all rowneys, i use these for vignettes (sp?), prismacolor softies, terrys,Nupastels, Faber-Castell Polychromos , mt. visions (Please dont stop having those auctions Karl, i will get around to buying more of yours lol), a few townsends (i do like these ALOT), and a few other odds and ends.

could you go more into about that grey you cant live without lol, I only have a handful of GA's and none of them are grey.

One must realize that with a large assortment of pastels that i have THEY do have their purpose, and i dont buy them just all willy nilly because they are beautiful, (tho i will admit, when i saw unisons for the first time i went oooooo lol).

My Giraults are used for animal portraits mostly, and sometimes when i need a firm pastel for light application of color on a portrait. Unisons are wonderful for LARGE works of art that demand bold application of color, after a bit of experimenting i finally learned how to control the amount i lay down so i dont eat up so much of a single stick. Nupastels and polys i use for the beginnings of a painting, i will use the rowneys in my thumbnails because they are not big enough for anything else lol. Every grade, thickness, size etc, of pastel that i have , have a purpose, and i started out buying these with all my different subjects that i paint , in mind. I will not use a supersoft pastel for laying down detail, nor would i use a hard pastel to try and cover a broad surface.

Different pastel sizes to me, are like paint brushes, when i did oil paint, i had practically every size you could think of from ALOT of makers. But the clean up annoyed me and i dont like having all that liquid next to me nor my work area, so i switched to pastels. (all ya need with pastels is a damp towel under your chair or hanging behind your easel)

There are times yes, that i overthink things to much but maybe thats how i overcome the initial stages of uncertainty , i torment myself for about a week then i paint, the painting takes all of maybe a day (if larger maybe two to three days) and walla. I agonize longer than it takes me to paint, but when i do paint, i am not suffering from self doubt.

By the way, i took up writing short stories about a year ago, to keep me from putting my art out of sight out of mind permanently when i get to obsessive.

My husband says i have OCD lol, his boss told him to never call me crazy because artists are anything BUT crazy.

10-01-2005, 02:00 AM
Now, here's my question for anyone to answer: what makes a color NEUTRAL??? Is it true that neutral is as neutral does (in a painting, I mean)? Do you think neutrals are entirely temperature oriented? Or are they value driven, too? Deborah

my understanding of "neutral" is that it is an "adulterated" version of a pure colour...adulterated, or modified, by either the colour's complementary, or by black or grey.

So, many, many pastel sticks could be considered "neutrals".

You can have different tones/values of neutrals. They can be warm or cool. They can vary in intensity.

How you use them is another thing - they can provide visual relief in a painting of predominantly pure colour for instance.

I think any sensitive painter will sense automatically when and how to use them.

However, I will be interested to read your "book" on the subject!


10-01-2005, 05:32 AM
my responses to the following, are in blue

To Jackie:

Ive seen your exercise about warm/cool in another thread, but thank you for posting it here too,so sorry to repeat myself, but perhaps others found it helpful!

i no longer want a harmonized palette, tho the analynical side of me screams for less chaos lol.
yes, I thought less chaos was what you were after, and that is why I tried to ease the confusion. I find a tonal palette works for me, but you need to find out what works for you. I wish you luck!

I mentioned before that i stopped buying pastels a little bit ago because of this delimma apologies again, I did not spot that commentand having another color doesnt make me a better artist, but, it does make me a good customer lol. (that was joke, i dont buy these things just for "collecting" sake, i LOVE color, even if it makes me bonkers sometimes, but thats half the fun, no?)yes, buying yummy colours IS fun, using them even more fun, and I cannot help but wonder how many of those 2500 you use! Perhaps you use them all at some time or other. I do know that I seldom use more than about 20 different sticks in any one painting, and I certainly have nothing like 2500 and yet there are plenty of UNused colours in my collection, despite the fact that I have been working with pastels for more than 20 years! Also, as a tutor and demonstrator, I know that there are many people out there who are art materials addicts - they honestly believe that if they have THAT ONE COLOUR, or that particular brush, that isn't in their collection, their paintings will improve. Many artists have made quite a bit of money by producing their own special items, and have marketed them as if they are "the" answer. I have watched people on painting holidays, with a studio-full of kit, hard to credit how they lug it all about, and yet their paintings leave a lot to be desired -and I have watched a colleague use a tiny box of pastels, and he produced beautiful pics. If you buy for good reasons, rather than just to acquire more and more, a victim to marketing, then good for you.

I hope you get your palette sorted to your satisfaction in the end.


Kathryn Wilson
10-01-2005, 07:36 AM
Great thread! I have a question - or maybe more of an observation - why is it when you finally find a color you really like, the manufacturers discontinue the color. How do you make up a color that is no longer being made? I had a favorite blue that seemed to be just right for so many paintings - now it is down to the tiniest nubbin.

It's almost like a loss of a friend.

10-01-2005, 08:30 AM
Scribble some out for me on a piece of paper and I'll see what I can do.

Kathryn Wilson
10-01-2005, 08:43 AM
Karl, really? That is so sweet of you - I've got to work today, but will get a color sample posted tonight. I hope I have enough of it left!

I used this in my Bryce Canyon painting and as it got smaller and smaller I was really sweating bullets hoping I had enough left to finish the painting. Why I started out with just a nubbin I'll never know - won't make that mistake again. But it is a favorite and use it all the time for shadows and underpainting. :o

10-01-2005, 04:18 PM
you could just send him the painting lol if he needs more of an idea.

10-01-2005, 07:43 PM
I've just finished trying to sort my various sets of pastels into color families. It IS so hard! I finally opted for yellow groups, yellow-orange, orange, red, red-violet, violet, blue violet, blue, blue-green, greens and yellow-greens and then miscellaneous pinks, blacks/whites/grays and earth tones. Of course, I can't decide which group most of them go into, so just a best guess....at best! I never tried this before and my sets were still in their original boxes. Now they're sorted down to three tackle box type boxes that close snugly and I could take them along with me if I ever decide to go plein air. What a chore!! :eek:


But fun, too? I never get tired of arranging and cleaning and rearranging my sticks...it's like playing with jewels....

BTW, I've rated this thread....the "pros" have given us such great information that I hope we can "save" it for future reference!

Pat Isaac
10-01-2005, 07:56 PM
Heeheehee....I had a teacher who always said that that kind of activity was "ironing toothbrushes", not a wasted activity but recharging the creative juices.. I do that often.


10-01-2005, 09:30 PM
This may take the discussion a little off topic but I found this painting:
and OK the colors aren't exactly neutrals but very close, and you can see the use of warm and cool, although the cool is just that, cool, not cold.
Just thought people might enjoy.

10-01-2005, 11:23 PM
Just goes to show what "quiet" color can do! Nice!

10-05-2005, 03:55 AM


Any thoughts on these sites?


10-05-2005, 08:26 AM


Any thoughts on these sites?


good basic info. The first one needs colour illustrations, it is awfully dry otherwise.
The second one is basic, but does makes things clear.