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Dark_Shades
09-25-2005, 06:22 PM
.... Seeing all the nice shiney images in the forum lately, I wanted to try one too :)
....... found this image in the library, and started this afternoon. I work all over the painting, never completing one part at a time..... Everything was coming together quite nicely, until - (for those who know me lol, KNOW how I struggle with GREENS) ... until I got to the greens......... :crying: :crying:
Im surprised HOW many greens I do have, but, no matter what I try - they all seem to come out this awful, yuck green - everytime it comes out dull, dark, drab ...... I want vibrant greens...... Fresh and Healthy ......... I tried mixing colours, underlaying, overlaying.......adding yellows, whites, blues, red, purple..... ...have taken this off so many times now am about to give up :mad: (not sure even Wallis will take this much abuse!)

What am I doing wrong :confused: ...... anyone have any advice........ any recommendations on brands of pastels and their shades, for a nice Fresh Healthy Salad Green :)

Thanks for looking and helping

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Sep-2005/12116-Shiny.jpg

Dark_Shades
09-25-2005, 06:24 PM
Just adding ref photo so you can see the sort of colour I want to be able to achieve..

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Sep-2005/12116-4.jpg

Bringer
09-25-2005, 06:27 PM
Hi,

The image is too small for me to say anything. However the ensemble seems quite good. I also have trouble making those green highlights on grass, for instance.
I suppose Tchris (Tom I guess) could give you a good advise on those).
Could you post a bigger pic to see if I can say some more bad stuff ? :-)

Regards,

José

Bringer
09-25-2005, 06:30 PM
Hi again,

Just saw that you posted again. Those are in fact difficult greens to achive. Have you try some kind of pointilism technique to achieve an optical colour mix between a green and a yellow ? If you don't miw them for real, they won't loose their «liveness», I suppose. This may be a silly idea, but then again isn't an idiot a person with ideas ? :-)

Regards,

José

Dark_Shades
09-25-2005, 06:35 PM
Hello Jose ........ no, not a silly idea at all....... its a good idea :) thank you - could be one of the reasons keep losing the colours, as mixing them... did take it off and put the brightest green on.... but then lost that :p
The only other problem is that the whole thing is only 9 x 12", so this is relatively a very small part .......... but its definately worth a try, as other wise its headed for File 13

*Deirdre*
09-25-2005, 06:57 PM
Dawn..i had a play...I don't know why I thought I should knw...but what the heck...nothing ventured! I put my brightest greens a=on some sahded paper...scanned them...to produce sludge! I brightened the scan to the background colour...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Sep-2005/33616-greensfordawn.jpg

Dark_Shades
09-25-2005, 07:22 PM
awwww thanks Deirdre, will come in and study this again tomorrow....... gotta get off to bed........ work tomorrow :P - and just when I was having fun too lol ..
Um why cant they just make it simple and say, Lettuce Leaf Green :D - mind you lol, dont even know if it is a lettuce lol ......

That Faber one is lovely and bright, ........ I suppose I should try out something like you have done here, with my own.... see if I get anything like yours...... Thanks so much for taking the time to do this ........ much appreciated ........... lol any of those take your fancy as a lettuce leaf :)

silverflagon
09-25-2005, 07:44 PM
Have you tried painting with a very pale yellow first, then an acid yellow, and just adding a touch of green to the edges?

I can't scan my try in, not at this late hour any way, but I used a Sennelier 301, an acid yellow and a Jaxel sap green. I find that just trying to get decent greens with just a basic green always looks flat and uninteresting. But if you use a indian red in the shadows, it makes the green pop. Try using yellows and blues together on a trial sheet of paper, till you get the effect that you want.

I don't have any paintings using that salad green unfortunately. Well I'm not sure now I see this picture. I'll let you be the judge as to whether it is helpful in any way? http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/25-Sep-2005/44191-cottage600t.jpg

Kathryn Wilson
09-25-2005, 07:59 PM
Dawn, I know that color you are trying to get - it is a hard one to find. I have found that my greens really perk up when I started out with a dark reddish layer first, it seems to give them some punch. I have one pastel by Terry Ludwig that is a very deep eggplant color and I've been using it quite a bit in conjunction with any green I have to use. Not to say that it will produce that chartreuse green, but might give your greens the depth you are looking for. Hope that helps.

Trilby
09-25-2005, 11:43 PM
Dawn you're doing the shiny thing very well and the lettuce registers as lettuce, even if not in the green you are wanting. Might I ask, how is your color vision? Are other people's greens what you desire or are they colored yuck too?
Prepared greens are strong and minerally so anything mixed in with them is captured by the green and goes dead, try broken color and lay colors side by side to get the life.
TJ

Nicoclaus
09-26-2005, 01:07 AM
I like it alot, the only thing I would change, is maybe make it a little darker inside the colander, like you have on the small left part inside the colander.
Or you could put a piece of lettuce in the colander? :) I love the tomatoes.
About the green color, it looks nice the way it is IMO;)
I'm not sure if this will help you, but I took a picture of lettuce into Photoshop and picked out some of the colors that it has in it.
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2005/50336-Lettuce_colors.jpg

jackiesimmonds
09-26-2005, 03:40 AM
Dawn, Here is a way to consider greens.

1. First, look at the "local colour". Greens vary a lot, and you need to decide what kind of green you are seeing, in normal light conditions - that is, not under a floodlight, or in bright sunlight. Is the object a fresh green which leans towards blue, or a yellow green, or an ochre green? There are lots of variations.

2. Now think "temperature" - specifically, the temperature of the LIGHT . Whatever the local colour is, it will be modified not just by the light, (giving yo light and dark areas) but also by the temperature of the light, this is really important to take on board. For instance a yellow green will not just be lighter where warm light hits it, it will be a light YELLOW-green, and will have very cool shadows. A cool blue-green object will be brighter and sharper in the light, but less yellow than a yellow green object would be. Does this make sense?

And perhaps avoid a lot of mixing - a green is all ready a secondary colour, it is a "mix" of blue and yellow to begin with, and if you start to add in yet more colours by "mixing", depending on what you use, you might well end up with a tertiary colour. Adding a purple to a green, for instance, will give you a tertiary, because you are adding blue and RED to the green.

If the prevailing light in your picture is warm, and your salady green are a simple mid-green, not too viridian and not too yellow, and the prevailing light is warm, then I would use greens which shift towards yellow for the lit green areas, and use cool greens which shift towards blue in the shadow areas. If you use broken colour, instead of blended colour, you might find that the green area you create will begin to "sing". You could also add in some blues to the shadow area, and some yellows to the lit area. However - first you need to decide on the main, local colour of your object, and THEN modify from there.

I think most salad leaves are a sharp, clean green, and I would steer clear, for the moment, of ochre-y greens, they will tend to look a bit muddy alongside clear yellow or blue greens.

I would certainly not put white in with your greens; that will just weaken the green, not enhance it in any way.

Here is a little patch of a variety of greens, which shifts from warm to cool. Notice how the added yellows at the top increase the sense of warmth, and how the patch of warm ochre-green halfway down on the left is not "right", it is too warm for the surrounding cooler greens:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/26-Sep-2005/1805-LWF0002.jpg


Your greens are surrounded with reds, so in terms of colour contrast, they should look vibrant automatically. If they are not, I would suspect it is because there is some confusion going on with a) tone and b) with weakening of the colour with white, and c) temperature.

I do hope this helps.

Dark_Shades
09-26-2005, 07:28 AM
Thank you all so much for the time and commenting with your thoughts and ideas, each one brings something for me to try and work on ....... Kat I will keep an eye out for Terry Ludwig's pastels ...... thank you silver for taking the time....... Thanks TJ .......... I think my colour vision is fine, though lol I seem to have a blind spot where greens are concerned............ :)
Thank you rubber....... that really helps too, and think these were the colours that I had choosen on the image above...... somehow doesnt seem to work though :(

....... thank you Jackie, I will print this off (when I find out how to print full screen :) ) ..... and read through what you have said, I am sure you are absolutely right, and the colours you have shown are exactly what I am after (top section) ........ mine seem to be the greens for the lower section :P totally not right for this piece........ hopefully tonight I can try a swatch and see if I can get near to those colours

Thank you all once again........... knew you'd help

Orchidacea
09-26-2005, 09:25 AM
Fascinating stuff...and I like your colander, BTW, Dawn.

Maybe we need an ESP for green?

Nancy Leone
09-26-2005, 09:38 AM
I'm with Kim.....nice shiny colander and great help for my boring greens. Thanks, Dawn.

Mikki Petersen
09-26-2005, 12:17 PM
Wonderful information here about greens! You should have your mystery solved, Dawn. One thing I am learning from working in other mediums where you have to mix colors is that the truest greens do not come from a tube, or in our case, a stick of color. As Jackie's illustration shows, you will achieve much more lifelike greens by layering colors. In the case of your current subject, you will want to layer yellows with viridian type greens and touches of spring green. Reds in the mix will turn to the olive range so avooid them here. Now just let me say that I think the greens in your painting come across quite believably even though they are not a color match for your reference. However...your shiny colander (the shine is quite convincing) is noticably wonky on my monitor.

Mik

Dark_Shades
09-26-2005, 12:38 PM
Well Im home from work..........donned my scruffy clothes...... and raring to go and try out all these suggestions...... If Im not back with an update ... you'll know why........ :mad:
As for my Wonky Colander, it is also wonky on my monitor too...... havent finished it yet!, nor the table, nor Garlic (think its Garlic), nor the background, not even the tomatoes..... and they are very likely all to stay this way UNLESS I can get the look of the green I desire lol Grrrrrrrr :crying:

silverflagon
09-26-2005, 02:23 PM
Well Im home from work..........donned my scruffy clothes...... and raring to go and try out all these suggestions...... If Im not back with an update ... you'll know why........ :mad:
As for my Wonky Colander, it is also wonky on my monitor too...... havent finished it yet!, nor the table, nor Garlic (think its Garlic), nor the background, not even the tomatoes..... and they are very likely all to stay this way UNLESS I can get the look of the green I desire lol Grrrrrrrr :crying:


Good luck Dark_Shades, let us know how you get on with it :)

I think this is a great thread for learning colours, just like the one on Greys. It's well worth making an ESP. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Dark_Shades
09-26-2005, 02:54 PM
Thanks Steph lol...... ESP :confused: , take it thats.. Extra Sensory Perception :D - I seemed to have flunked that exam ......

Ive already taken the greens off a number of times, yet again :p .... Pulled out the pastels that I thought were a good match to Jackies chart, went merrily on my way.......... all wrong........ interesting part, its not the greens that is the problem........ its the YELLOWS :eek: - it looked a lovely pure yellow, now sat next to the green.... it looks mustard :envy:

ok, back to drawing board

Bringer
09-26-2005, 03:51 PM
Hi,

Have you tried to smash some lettuce and make a pastel stick ? :-)

Regards,

José

jackiesimmonds
09-26-2005, 05:17 PM
Thanks Steph lol...... ESP :confused: , take it thats.. Extra Sensory Perception :D - I seemed to have flunked that exam ......

Ive already taken the greens off a number of times, yet again :p .... Pulled out the pastels that I thought were a good match to Jackies chart, went merrily on my way.......... all wrong........ interesting part, its not the greens that is the problem........ its the YELLOWS :eek: - it looked a lovely pure yellow, now sat next to the green.... it looks mustard :envy:

ok, back to drawing board

AHA!!!! you have probably hit the nail right on the head here, funnily enough I was thinking, as I was driving around today, that I should have told you to make sure that you used only COOL yellows rather than warm ones.

Any yellow which leans towards the red side of pure yellow, will look mustardy against the cool greens. You need yellows which shift towards the green side of the colour wheel...those which are ACID yellow, not SUNshine yellow.

Sorted!!!!!

J

Dark_Shades
09-26-2005, 05:25 PM
Nooooooooow she tells me lol - you know its funny, and Im glad you said this, because as Im changing the yellows they are becoming cooler and cooler ...... and I thought this cant be right, Jackie said bright yellows, so Im immediately using warms.... but the cooler ones (though not right yet) ARE looking better,...... so Im learning, albeit the hard way lol - given up for the night....... had better luck painting my nails.......
will try again tomorrow .......... thanks Jackie

jackiesimmonds
09-26-2005, 05:36 PM
DS - bright can mean "bright and warm" but it can also mean "bright and cool". My fault - I didn't explain properly. To me, it was just natural to pick up the bright, lemon yellows, rather than the buttery yelloows, so I didn't even think about it. It is often the problem when one is "teaching" - or sharing ... sometimes when something comes naturally, it is easy to forget that not everyone knows what you are talking about!

Tricky business, colour, but I am sure you are learning a lot with this exercise. Keep at it - you will win in the end!

LorraineG
09-26-2005, 06:01 PM
Hi Dawn,

I love the shiney colander.

I am watching this with much interest as I also have problems with greens.

Love the idea Jose had of smashing a lettuce and making the pastel stick :D

Lorraine

artseefartsee
09-27-2005, 07:24 AM
I think this is coming along nicely. Your greens are a little too cool, try some yellows or even a little orange on them. The tomatos would be reflecting a little of their color into the green. I saved this pic from the ref library too, you are doing a great job.
Sheila

Rose Baggs
09-27-2005, 09:08 AM
I like the way it's coming along too. Great thread..lots of information on greens..will save for future reference!!!!!!

jackiesimmonds
09-27-2005, 01:27 PM
Just one word in support of working from life.....you might well see far more "colour" in the still life if you set up something similar of your own, rather than work from a photo.

The camera just does not have the power that the human eye has.

J

Dark_Shades
09-27-2005, 01:36 PM
lol - this could be well true..... the time its taking me, the rotting lettuce wouldnt be so green ha ha ha

Dark_Shades
09-27-2005, 02:03 PM
Well ......... Ive been working on this more....... no yellows I have were working..... just did not look right against any of the greens I applied....... went back to using what greens I have - that I thought might work.... and utterly surprised to see that it looks more or less the same as when I started ...... what does one do, when you dont have the 'right' colour....... just make the best of what you have - is it possible to get the right look with the 'wrong' things?

..... sooooooooo frustrating

LorraineG
09-27-2005, 02:22 PM
Hi Dawn,

Just had a thought. Is it painted on Wallis paper? If so could you put your base colour (yellow) down with Windsor Yellow watercolour or Gouache?
Then build up slowly with pastels on top (when dry) from that. Just an idea, but it may work.

Lorraine

silverflagon
09-27-2005, 02:58 PM
I wonder what colour paper you are using? perhap this is one occasion when you need to use white paper and allow it to show through the green? Ane add some red and blue to the shadows just depending on whether they are cool or warm shadows :)
I gave some Sennelier colour numbers, but I think that what I thought was yellow was actually cream. One of the failings of darker evenings I'm sorry :(

*Deirdre*
09-27-2005, 04:47 PM
I wonder what you printed the ref on! I've just printed it out( research purposes!) on plain Paper and on Premium glossy photo paper...the results are very different! On the PGPP the tomatoes are nearly all yellow, on the PP they're mostly red with a touch of warm yellow an orange.
The greens are darker on PP too...and the colander has a bluish tinge to it :evil:

Dark_Shades
09-27-2005, 04:50 PM
Hi Lorraine/Steph

Yes, it is Wallis... White Wallis ...... I think Im getting to the point where this isnt fun lol ......... and not sure I wanna play anymore :D :evil:

I wish I could give all my greens and yellows to someone else and let them have a go lol

(next time......... I try Greens, **** hears shrieks..... Next time??? :eek: - yup, but dont worry, as always there is quite a gap in between lol) - I will obviously approach it a completely different way now, and give it alot more thought before hand

Just out of interest to anyone new to the forum, um.... there have been other threads where I have been whingeing about Greens, and think Jackie came to the rescue then too ...... are worth a search for.....
but as you can tell, I seem to be an unwilling pupil :( (not through the want of trying I might add)

This is where it currently stands tonight........ seem to be having probs taking pics even now lol ..... The Greens at least in real, look a lot more healthier, and I can live with that..... shame just cant get the look I want....

The Mystery of Greens still hold their secret from me...... but, one day......

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/27-Sep-2005/12116-shine.jpg

Dark_Shades
09-27-2005, 04:53 PM
I wonder what you printed the ref on! I've just printed it out( research purposes!) on plain Paper and on Premium glossy photo paper...the results are very different! On the PGPP the tomatoes are nearly all yellow, on the PP they're mostly red with a touch of warm yellow an orange.
The greens are darker on PP too...and the colander has a bluish tinge to it :evil:

Hi Deirdre.......... havent printed it out....... its just on my Monitor....... thats how I work, just view the image on Screen and work from that - sit in front of computer with paper clipped on board working on lap, pastels at side ...... and on front, and um on keyboard...... and any space I have left lol

Did note the blue in the colander...... and have blue in mine too

Bringer
09-27-2005, 08:23 PM
Hi again,

I got an idea.....
As you know the way we see colours, depends upon the surrounding ones.
Now, you want to find a stick that matches a certain green on your monitor/painting.
Grab a piece of paper and put all your greens over it. Then grab another paper and make TWO small holes.
Place the paper with the TWO small holes with one of those holes over the green on the monitor, that you want. Then pick the paper where you painted all the greens you have and start placing all those greens behind the other hole to compare.
Maybe the paper with the greens should be a strip.
This way you may find the most similar green.
I'm sure that you know this technique, but maybe you haven't thought about it ?

Regards,

José

Trilby
09-27-2005, 11:38 PM
Dawn, I think you hit one of the reasons the greens on your paper don't match your ref. The light is different on the monitor screen, coming from behind and through the image while the light strikes our paper and reflects to our eye, so certain colors will seem brighter and fresher on the monitor than on our papers, green is one of them, some yellows as well.
All of that said and that by others said, I like your lettuce. It looks like fresh crisp tasty lettuce.
TJ

prestonsega
09-28-2005, 01:11 AM
Dawn....I fail to see the problem with the greens that you are referring to.....as a matter of fact, the initial post seems pretty much on target to me....I think the area that needs more attention is the colander and the reflections......

After reading the replies, I realized that I don't think of "green" per say. but I see a continuim from yellow to blue.......and compliments of which ever is used in conjunction,,,,,,i.e.,....hue closer to the blue gets some red-orange added somewhere in the comp....and the same with the yellow end of the "green " spectrum gets a dab of red-purple.....I think I am only reiterating what others said....but for me....green doesn't exist,,,,,it runs the gammet from yellow-yellow to blue-blue. Part of this is my colorist approach using variations of the primaries, and it helps me not fret so much over the dreaded "green"

Hey..I just googled pastel paintings images for the heck of it...Guess what caught my eye as being familiar........the horse called Shades of Dawn.......do you know this fabulous artist?????? (lol) She is quite a striking figure whose work is fantasitic

( I felt a sense of pride when viewing the page).

Orchidacea
09-28-2005, 04:48 AM
I'm with Preston and TJ here...I think your lettuce looks just fine.

To be truthful, the only lettuce I've seen that looks a very clear spring green in life is iceberg lettuce--and that stuff is so far from anything that grows in the wild that it's hardly food anymore, just water in a leaf shape.

The green you showed as a sample looks like a green pepper to me--they look a lot different than lettuce because of their very smooth, almost waxy skin. Much more reflective and glow-y.

Your lettuce reads as lovely fresh ettuce to me, and it's a very pleasant color as well.

That said, I'm working on a painting with a lot of greens right now, and it does seem impossible to get them right, LOL. I love Preston's concept of not seeing them as green at all, just part of the spectrum between yellow and blue. Maybe I'll set my greens aside and see what happens if I work without them. It's on Wallis, so there's always the hose...

jackiesimmonds
09-28-2005, 07:03 AM
I now think the problem is not so much the greens, as YOUR IDEAS AND EXPECTATIONS . It's all a matter of perception. I perceive your painting as having no problems with the greens whatsoever right now. If you perceive a problem with the greens, then the problem may well reside in your expectations, rather than your achievements.

Very deep stuff this. Hope it doesn't make your head hurt....:-)

Orchidacea
09-28-2005, 10:34 AM
I now think the problem is not so much the greens, as YOUR IDEAS AND EXPECTATIONS . It's all a matter of perception. I perceive your painting as having no problems with the greens whatsoever right now. If you perceive a problem with the greens, then the problem may well reside in your expectations, rather than your achievements.


I have to agree with Jackie here. She tells it like it is! Don't go developing a green-o-phobia, Dawn--you're WAYYYY too talented for that!

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 12:31 PM
Hi again,

I got an idea.....
As you know the way we see colours, depends upon the surrounding ones.
Now, you want to find a stick that matches a certain green on your monitor/painting.
Grab a piece of paper and put all your greens over it. Then grab another paper and make TWO small holes.
Place the paper with the TWO small holes with one of those holes over the green on the monitor, that you want. Then pick the paper where you painted all the greens you have and start placing all those greens behind the other hole to compare.
Maybe the paper with the greens should be a strip.
This way you may find the most similar green.
I'm sure that you know this technique, but maybe you haven't thought about it ?

Regards,

José

There are some really great points and ideas, thoughts and processes coming out of this thread......

You know Jose, this is really a great idea and aid I think ... funnily enough I was surfing around, and came across an article about matching colours, was for pencils, but they had a photo and laid on top was the relevant matching pencils or as near possible....
lol and with this new found idea, Ha! had been trying pastels up against my screen to match, gave this up, as where my monitor is positioned (in a cupboard under a shelf - lighting is not so keen :o ) - I also recently read about paper with holes in it, and hadnt a clue what they were referring to ....... you have explained that so well, so thank you........ again I think that is something alot of people will find extrememly helpful, including myself

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 12:35 PM
Dawn, I think you hit one of the reasons the greens on your paper don't match your ref. The light is different on the monitor screen, coming from behind and through the image while the light strikes our paper and reflects to our eye, so certain colors will seem brighter and fresher on the monitor than on our papers, green is one of them, some yellows as well.
All of that said and that by others said, I like your lettuce. It looks like fresh crisp tasty lettuce.
TJ

TJ, this hit me too, as mentioned to Jose, I was trying to match pastels to the screen and realised THEN, that the lighting was so different and part causing some of my problems

Sometimes we already know things, its only when they are spoken out loud, or written down, they we consciously realise them finally (thankfully)

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 12:42 PM
To be truthful, the only lettuce I've seen that looks a very clear spring green in life is iceberg lettuce--and that stuff is so far from anything that grows in the wild that it's hardly food anymore, just water in a leaf shape.

The green you showed as a sample looks like a green pepper to me--they look a lot different than lettuce because of their very smooth, almost waxy skin. Much more reflective and glow-y.

Your lettuce reads as lovely fresh ettuce to me, and it's a very pleasant color as well.



Lol Kim, you too have hit the nail on the head......... all the time I had been working on the painting, kept looking at the ref...... and thought what the heck is it, I wanted to read it as a lettuce....... but it didnt really look like one, but then Id never seen a pepper with this weird shape either........ so this too is/was adding to my problem.....

Lol I dont eat Salads, have always called them.... 'Crispy Water' - and the lettuce we do tend to have is.......... Iceberg :)

Orchidacea
09-28-2005, 12:47 PM
Lol I dont eat Salads, have always called them.... 'Crispy Water' - and the lettuce we do tend to have is.......... Iceberg

*sigh* I can see we're going to have to have an ESP on Painting the Healthy Diet...

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 12:58 PM
Dawn....I fail to see the problem with the greens that you are referring to.....as a matter of fact, the initial post seems pretty much on target to me....I think the area that needs more attention is the colander and the reflections......

After reading the replies, I realized that I don't think of "green" per say. but I see a continuim from yellow to blue.......and compliments of which ever is used in conjunction,,,,,,i.e.,....hue closer to the blue gets some red-orange added somewhere in the comp....and the same with the yellow end of the "green " spectrum gets a dab of red-purple.....I think I am only reiterating what others said....but for me....green doesn't exist,,,,,it runs the gammet from yellow-yellow to blue-blue. Part of this is my colorist approach using variations of the primaries, and it helps me not fret so much over the dreaded "green"

Hey..I just googled pastel paintings images for the heck of it...Guess what caught my eye as being familiar........the horse called Shades of Dawn.......do you know this fabulous artist?????? (lol) She is quite a striking figure whose work is fantasitic

( I felt a sense of pride when viewing the page).

You know Preston, I cant believe how many people have replied on things that I have just come to realise for myself lol ... bit like a light bulb going on .....
I was sitting here thinking, frustrated by my own failings, trying all what I could to get the look I wanted...... went through all the pastels I had, and nothing really works...... and then thought, well it isnt finished yet..... may be if I carry on working on the more unfinished parts it will come together more....... started filling in the background...... didnt like that..... took that off, and then really couldnt make up my mind what colour I did want the background to be ..... so took it into PSP and splashed some colours in the background..... Primary colours........... the difference the whole piece took on ......... splashed on Bright Blue...... The Reds sung......... took that off, splashed Bright Yellow............. The Green just seemed to be in Sunshine :clap:
Sometimes, I could just smack myself lol ........ I know that mats and frames can alter the atmosphere of a whole painting, why hadnt I realised or at least consciously the same affect for the background - thinking on it, perhaps Ill post a couple of those up

Ohhhhh lol, this artist sounds wonderful......... bet she doesnt have trouble with Greens - nope never heard of her

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 01:02 PM
*sigh* I can see we're going to have to have an ESP on Painting the Healthy Diet...


Well Ive already put in a complaint to the Pastel Makers...... dont wont numbers for shades want......

IceBerg Lettuce green
Cherry Tomatoe Red
Sunshine Yellow
Chocolate Brown
Egg White

:D

Could always go for alternatives, no additives for our Healthy Options lol

...... wouldnt it be so much simpler

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 01:05 PM
I now think the problem is not so much the greens, as YOUR IDEAS AND EXPECTATIONS . It's all a matter of perception. I perceive your painting as having no problems with the greens whatsoever right now. If you perceive a problem with the greens, then the problem may well reside in your expectations, rather than your achievements.

Very deep stuff this. Hope it doesn't make your head hurt....:-)

Lol Jackie, Greens always give me a headache......

I just wanna achieve what I expect :(

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 01:10 PM
I looked at my painting on the monitor at work, and indeed looks better than on my monitor at home...... though they both look pretty similiar........ if that can possibly make sense....... and the before and after paintings at least on my monitor look very similiar ...... but the one in real now, is more a complimentary colour to the reds than I had before.... though I lack for myself the 'sunshine' I wanted to achieve, but they may or may not come when and if I complete the remainder.......

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 01:14 PM
But I still am left with the question................... WHY do so many people struggle with 'GREENS'

What is it about THIS colour that has so many people baffled.......
you dont hear people crying over...... blues, yellows....... reds..... (<<<<< well actually I did once lol) ........ etc

Has anyone get any answers...........
Anyone want to add, what baffles them about it?

Orchidacea
09-28-2005, 01:36 PM
Blue, yellow and red are primaries....green at its best is a mix. Then you start doing shades and hues of it or whatever (as if I know anything about color theory), putting it under warm or cool light and surrounding it with other colors, and, well, you're in for a grand old time.

As Kermit said, "It's not easy being green...."

Dark_Shades
09-28-2005, 02:04 PM
Blue, yellow and red are primaries....green at its best is a mix. Then you start doing shades and hues of it or whatever (as if I know anything about color theory), putting it under warm or cool light and surrounding it with other colors, and, well, you're in for a grand old time.

As Kermit said, "It's not easy being green...."


Ha Ha Ha
........ ohh does that make me Miss Piggy :eek: :)
(dont answer that)

jackiesimmonds
09-28-2005, 02:37 PM
I just wanna achieve what I expect :(

don't we all....but sometimes, we have to modify our expectationa - they may not be reasonable or achievable!!

having little in the way of expectations means you will suffer less inthe way of disappointment - it's a good maxim for life.

As for greens ... to get the sunshine you expect, and want - use yellows. (Acid yellows). Remove all traces of white. Bottom line.

J

silverflagon
09-28-2005, 05:28 PM
Well I tried a quick test with some of my harder pastels, these seem to be more acid than my soft pastels in green and yellow. Not sure if it's of any help. It's an iceburg lettice. I looked at buying a little gem but they seem to be always sold in twos, and they go of before I get to eat the second one. Thats the downside of living on your own, no one caters for you. :(

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/28-Sep-2005/44191-letucegreentest600.jpg

I just scribbled it out as the light was getting poor, and I think I chose the wrong reds in the bad light, they look a little cerise almost :rolleyes:

Bringer
09-28-2005, 06:28 PM
Hi again,

Here's a link that can give us an idea on how our eyes can be tricked, namely how surrounding colours affect the what we see.

http://www.echalk.co.uk/showproducts.asp?ct02_id=6&level=2&catname=amusements%20>%20optical%20illusions

Regards,

José

michelleblock
09-30-2005, 06:55 AM
Don't know about anyone else, but think this is a really helpful thread! Just the other day I was looking for an idea for green, and had a quick read of this thread. There are so many ideas, suggestions, and pictures been posted, that I would like to keep this as reference. I am going to give it some stars:)


By the way Dark Shades, could you add poppy red to that list, I used the wrong few reds recently, that would have made me life easier (know now, so I suppose you learn!). Oh and broccoli green would be useful, for those darker greens.

How are you getting on with it?????????

meowmeow
09-30-2005, 08:16 PM
Lol Kim, you too have hit the nail on the head......... all the time I had been working on the painting, kept looking at the ref...... and thought what the heck is it, I wanted to read it as a lettuce....... but it didnt really look like one, but then Id never seen a pepper with this weird shape either........ so this too is/was adding to my problem.....

One more reason why you should go buy some peppers and lettuce and sit and paint from the real thing. :D

But I also agree that it is your perception...obviously if you are not happy, well, then you are not happy. But I think it's a nice painting.

I know you always have whined about greens but I also know you have really done well recently with your landscapes so you overcame the tree-green problem to some extent.

Anyhow, great colander....and the veggies ain't bad either!


sandy

jackiesimmonds
10-01-2005, 12:52 PM
One more reason why you should go buy some peppers and lettuce and sit and paint from the real thing. :D


sandy

Seconded!!!!!!!!

Dark_Shades
10-02-2005, 04:03 AM
How are you getting on with it?????????

Hi Michelle............ Im not really :(
I tend to loose interest in a piece if I can not get it done in a few days....... its been a week already, and even the paper has started to curl lol
Been working more on the colander....... if I can will try and post an update later

Bitman69
10-02-2005, 06:47 AM
Nice work Dark Shades.

MarciaJane
10-02-2005, 06:53 AM
Hi Dawn,

Lovely pastel you are doing here . I sometimes never seem to have the "right" green either in spite of having quite a few. The feedback you have got on here though is very good though.

Looking forward to seeing this one finished :)

Hope you are keeping ok :)

michelleblock
10-02-2005, 08:41 AM
Hi Michelle............ Im not really :(
I tend to loose interest in a piece if I can not get it done in a few days....... its been a week already, and even the paper has started to curl lol
Been working more on the colander....... if I can will try and post an update later

Don't give up, it has probably been wise to give it a rest, then pick it up again after a break. My dolphins piece got left for over a month, I had nearly torn it up in frustration, when I went back to it, I didn't have the same problems that I had had with the water.

Post it when you are ready:)

Dark_Shades
10-02-2005, 02:53 PM
Hi Michelle........ thanks, I think you are probably right........ not enjoying working on this anymore..... but perhaps if I just get it out and do a little now and then, wont be so bad .......
I worked some on the top of the colander, which was a job in itself lol, as there isnt one in the ref image (it had been cropped down to the handle)
...... so perhaps I will work on the bottom part of the elipse next weekend :D

I think it would be good to have a rest with this one, as at the moment, lol, the paper is curled that much it reminds me of one of those blue fortune telling fish that you lay in your hand

so this is where it is at the moment


http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/02-Oct-2005/12116-shine.jpg

michelleblock
10-02-2005, 04:23 PM
I really can't see anything wrong with it, you have done brilliantly with the top of the colander, that was a big job out of the way. The tomatoes look edible, and I think the greens look great the way they are.

I think you have done really well. It look finished to me:confused: you will have to finish at some point...

:)

IMaybe
05-05-2009, 07:45 PM
:clap: Thankyou for this thread!! I am trying a bright sunlit leaf, er , seaveral , and the talk about the warm and cool under painting in warm or cool yellow is making this quite clear what my trouble is!!! Thanks!

Kathryn Wilson
05-05-2009, 07:51 PM
You do realize this thread is almost 4 years old ... LOL

But it is a good one and thanks for bringing to our attention again!

David Patterson
05-05-2009, 11:22 PM
And what bothers me is Dawn hasn't been around for a very long time! I wrote her, but get no response!

David

David Patterson
05-05-2009, 11:25 PM
It may be 4 years old, but what concerns me is that Dawn has been gone for a very long time. I just hope everything is okay with her!

David

Kathryn Wilson
05-06-2009, 07:53 AM
Perhaps she will get an email notification of a new posts to her thread and join us again.