Plasteline Bears (Update 2)

[MKathleen]

Hi All, here is where I'm at now had a small set back due to jury duty.
I added some additional land mass helping to lose some of the roundness. Added some rocks/pebbles to indictate a shallow river bed/shore line. Put mother bear back into the original position, turned one of the cubs head slightly. Had fun adding the fur and facial expressions to the bears.
I'm pretty pleased with my progress I wish I was more skilled to even take it further. This has been such a wonderful learning piece. I feel I've gain some good experience and I do love working with the plasteline clay.
I'd like to hear again from you all so comments, thoughts, suggestions?;)
Sorry the scan is kind of dark on the first one I'll see if I can take another image
Best,
Kathy:D
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2002/PlastelineBearsSideView01-17-02.jpg
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2002/PlastelineBearsAbove01-17-02.jpg
another view
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Jan-2002/BearsSideView01-07-02ROBBINS.jpg

[Phyllis Rennie]

Looking good!

What do you have to do to finish the Plasteline clay once you are done sclupting it??

I had jury duty for the first time just a few months ago. It was a terrible case--child abuse--disrupted my life for a week and messed with my mind for a long time afterward. Hope yours is easier. Phyl

[MKathleen]

What do you have to do to finish the Plasteline clay once you are done sclupting it??

Phyl, I have to decide whether to have someone make a mold, and pour of some type of material into that mold. Another option is to have it bronzed or some other metal. Still another option is to do it myself making my own mold and pour it myself. As I understand it the clay stays workable all but indefinately. So I can choose to keep the sculpture or brake it down and reuse the clay. Because the sculpture is small I may just try the process myself. There are kits available for mold making and materials such as artificial stone for the pour. I've been paying special attention to Di, Max and Frank and their working methods.
I really don't think this piece is good enough to warrant paying the price of bronze casting.
I didn't get selected to set on the jury which didn't brake my heart. Went though two days of jury selection with lots of setting around. I did get some reading done...This case was a conservership for a badly mentally handicaped young man.

Best,
Kathy:o

[Yielding]

It has been fun watching your progress MKathleen on this piece. I like the texture and detail you have added in this update. The bears have good proportions and look very life like.

The only real critical feedback I would add is that I feel the three bears are a little crowed for the size of the base. I would take one bear out and add a small rock or another nature item..... tree trunk, plant... that sort of thing, or make the base a bit larger.

The direction of the mothers head may be something to look at as well, all three bears are looking in different directions. As I take a second look I have thoughts that the mothers head should be looking at her cubs, as if she was giving them some TLC. And/or have the cubs heads looking at the mother for protections.

Just my thoughts, as always take them of leave them.

Overall good piece - nice work!:)

[MKathleen]

The only real critical feedback I would add is that I feel the three bears are a little crowed for the size of the base. I would take one bear out and add a small rock or another nature item..... tree trunk, plant... that sort of thing, or make the base a bit larger.

Yielding, thank you for taking a critical look at my bear sculpture I appreciate your suggestions. I have given them thought and this is what I'm thinking. I've been looking at nature sculpture in my books, magazines and Online. It appears more often than not the subjects are placed on small bases with some type of landscape. Then after what ever type of casting there placed on a larger wood, rock etc. final base that will compliment the sculpture. So I have just continued on with what I have observered.
My thought is because of the size of the cubs (yearlings) they would be taking on a defensive stance like their mother. They are all looking up as if startled or just checking whats entered their area ready to defend themselves.
The title will reflect what I'm protraying so the viewer will understand what my thinking was when creating this sculpture.
Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to comment on my sculpture. You have given me more to think about, and that is good. Being new to sculpting I need the thoughts and help of everyone.

Best,
Kathy:0

[diane555]

Kathy!

I am pleased that I stopped in for a moment today! This is looking very very good :D I like the final composition and the size of the base. The work you did on the base is good also. I did get the feeling that the three of them had heard a noise or a movement startled them, so, "well done" on conveying the moment. As for critiques, hmmm, the only thing I can think of is that the mothers' muzzle looks a bit square, but it could be the angle of the pic. All in all Kathy, this piece is very nice.

Thanks for sharing all the progress pics. It's great to watch how each individual progresses through a piece isn't it?

Di

[MKathleen]

As for critiques, hmmm, the only thing I can think of is that the mothers' muzzle looks a bit square, but it could be the angle of the pic.

Di, I'm glad you stopped into the Sculpture Forum today too. Thank you for your compliments and suggestions I applicate as always hearing your thoughts. Your right about the bears muzzle it needs some attention. It's funny how you look at something and see right past it. Duh!:o
I think I'm just about to wrap this one up and move on. I would like to learn how to cast and pour--this might be a good learning piece in more ways than one. I think it would look good in a stone type pour--any recommendations for the beginnner?
I also have another sculpture I want to get going on of my Dad and his horse when he was a young man in Texas.
What are you working on now?

Best,
Kathy:D

[Jeffi]

Kathy,

I think it turned out real well - that's a wonderful piece! They look very lifelike to me, and I really like the pose. You could probably sell it. It's really nice to see the progress pics for the sculptures posted on this site - I can learn a lot just from watching the work progress. Anyway, you've done a great job on it. Speaking of you next piece - don't forget to post it here!

[MKathleen]

Jeffi, thank you for your really nice compliment I really appreciate hearing from you. The progress images are very helpful to someone just starting out learning sculpture. Even those who have been sculpting seem interested also. I think all of us as artists are always learning. When we start to think we know it all we're in lots of trouble. lol
What are you working on now? Please post so we can see what you are doing too. I really enjoy seeing all the different styles and materials everyone is using.
My next piece will probably be very challenging, but if it works it will be very rewarding. My dad has been gone from this earth for 43 years. He is the one most responsible for my love of horses and dogs. So in a way this will be a personal tribute to my dad.

Best,
Kathy:D

[diane555]

Hi Kathy. Just wanted to reply to your question regarding molds & casting. I think you & I have some things in common....mainly that we are both a little crazy and must love a challenge!!! :D 20 years ago when I worked exclusively in wax I found casting a fairly easy process, but with the clays there is much more to think about.

Firstly, I would hate to see anything happen to your wonderful piece so I would suggest that if you want to try casting you might make a very quick, simple sculpture for your first attempt. With three figures on one base you will have your hands full trying to figure out where to put seams etc in the mold. I recently tried a "smooth-on" rubber mold product which I was very happy with and if you didn't see the thread there is a link below that may be of some help to you. Max had suggested a similar product called "Polytek".

Although a bit less expensive I found the Polytek's working time is somewhat shorter that Smooth-on. They both say 20 min working time, however, I have found myself with a bowl full of very very thick goo too soon after mixing Polytek. Either are good products though. The thing that was very helpful to me was that the Smooth-on site has a link "GETTING STARTED" that offers starter kits available online so you have everything you need to try the mold material and there is no guessing as to what to buy. The one I tried was the "Brushable Starter Pack" and the video. It does come with an excellent book showing many mold processes.

The thing to keep in mind with molds are undercuts and areas of the design that have actual openings, such as, under the belly of the bears and between the legs and each other etc. Abstract thinking is very handy in this step:D These will all be very challenging as you have to plan all these and decide where to have seams in the mold. Otherwise your mold will not come off......I have done this BTW!! The nice thing about the rubber is that you could always cut it away with an exacto knife and save the sculpture, unlike a plaster mold!

I hope I am not discouraging you, I personally love the challenge and enjoy making molds. It's not everyone's 'cup o' tea' though. I hope you try it, but please make a small piece with at least one good undercut to try it. As for what to pour into it, there are many products. Plaster, of course, and the newer products in the gypsum family...Hydrocal, Ultracal, Forton MG, Winterstone (I believe is pourable), Resins (if you try the Smooth-on the give a resin sampler to try also)....the list goes on and on. There are so many ways to finish these also, as Max showed us with his "Forton Cast Bust" thread way back. I can send you some links to sites if you are interested in reading more. Lastly, I certainly don't claim to be a mold-maker by any stretch of the imagination but I love learning all this stuff and hope this is of some help to you.

Di

[diane555]

Geesh! I am either forgetting to add the pics or forgetting the link! Here are the two I mentioned...

(Hope this one to my thread works)
www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23391

www.smoothon.com/

Di

[MKathleen]

Di, YOUR the BEST you've given me some really good information. I'll sponge it up!
Thank you for bringing me to my senses about using the bears as my first try at casting. You are absolutely right I'll make something else easier with an under cut for the first try. I hadn't thought about how I would have to go about getting around the legs. You have saved my butt!:clap: I'll look at the sites you have linked for me to look at.
Yes I do like a challenge, yelp we just might be related! No wonder Max and Randy have so much fun with us!:evil: :D

Best,
Kathy:D

[mebucko]

Hi Kathy! Man! You did pretty good! I came hear to see what was going on and I thought I ws going to be mauled by bears! Taking those first pics with the sunlight looked so realistic, I was amazed! Good job! I know about the undercut situation, and I also had a few concerns, and I was under the impression that you already knew that. Sorry, I wasn't paying enough attention, I was always looking at bears...:D If it wasn't for that thing, I think I would be sculpting away, that's what's been holding me back using Plasteline. I do have a suggestion though, you probably already thought of it, but, if you take the bears off of the base, you can then do each bear separately, and the molds will be way easier to do then. You could reattach them back on with epoxy glue. Just an idea, and I am really amazed at the fine job of this, I mean it, it almost looked real when the page first loaded, still does on the top pic.
I have to have my say on the bears postioning though...again...:D I think that they are in the right place. It looks to me that the mother is on the lookout for danger, and being yearling cubs, they're being nosey, and just being kids... sniffing the winds.. looking around at any and everything, not really knowing about 'too much' danger in 'their' world, at least, in my world, when I look at 'em, they will be!:D I also like the idea of a tree trunk or small boulder on the area, but, I also like the the three bears, and I'd hate to see you end up with only two, I'd always worry about that missing bear!:D Really though, on the NEXT sculpt, you've learned quite a bit, and all of these really good suggestions by everyone here, and your natural ability to do this, it should put in a place that will be much easier... I really do love the texture you did too, it's pretty convincing, I can't tell if it's to scale or not, but it sure is nice looking. I know that you want to get on with your next sculpt too, and if I don't shut up, then you won't, so please keep us all informed on this, and your fathers, that too should be interesting.
Groovy!
Randy

[MKathleen]

Randy, hey Thank you glad you like the final result.:D Did you notice I did take your suggestion and I turned one of the cubs head slightly. And of course turned mother bear back to her original stance/direction. :o Yep, texturing the bear's fur was really enjoyable I used a ceramic metal cleaning tool. One end is very pointed and the other end is scooped. Made for making nice fur hatching...
Not sure how I'm going to finish the bear's as far as casting. I'd like to take my time and look into casting how to. I really hadn't consider the under-cuts I can see where a novis like me could run into big trouble. So I think I'll just leave the sculpture as it is for now and just enjoy it. Di had suggested I practice doing a cast and pour using a simple piece with one under-cut. I must listen to the voices of experience so I'm going to take her advice.;)
Your idea of removing the bears from the base, casting and pouring is certainly possible I would think. Then as you say glueing them back onto the base. Will look into that idea too! Your so clever :cool:
Everyone has been so terrific with their comments, suggestions and encouragment during this project.
Now it's time to move on I'm anxious to get started on my next scuplture.
Thanks again Randy for all you encouragement and suggestions.
;)

Best,
Kathy:D

[max nelson]

HI Kathy..I've been out of town for a few days and look what you've done while I was gone!! Mighty nice. Sounds like Di and Bucco have already given you the suggestions that I would have made. Boy, did they save me a bunch of typing:D :D Glad to see you formed the momma bears behind a little larger to get some taper front to rear. Di's comment on the bears muzzle are well founded. From what I've seen of bears their muzzles taper quite a lot and the bottom jaw is rather weak appearing on bears. The best advice is that this could be a very difficult piece for a novice to make their first mold with. As Bucco mentioned the piece would be seperated for molding by a mold maker. If it were going to be cast in bronze it might require 4 or 5 seperate molds and after cast would be welded back together. If you order the Polytec catalogue they have a well presented section on mold making in the beginning pages that would be helpful.
It is a very fine work, especially since you are just beginning to work in the 'round'. I knew you could do well...just not this well.
I'm really wondering what I will find here when I return from a business trip this week. (one of those awful New Orleans ones:D )
Bravo
Max

[MKathleen]

Thank you for the compliments I really value your thoughts. Yeah I even surprised myself! tee hee :D
Di, and Randy Joe Mebucko have been giving me lots of good advice and support while you been away. So you noticed I fixed the bear butt to shoulder ratio you mentioned.:D I'm sure glad you all are looking out for me!;) I need all the help I can get!
I wisely decided to not try molding the bears myself, not yet away. Di and Randy both gave me some good advice that I plan to follow. I really don't think their good enough to warrant the expense of bronze casting. So I'll just enjoy them as is for now...
I started my Dad's sculpture today I think I made some good progress. Lots of work ahead posted some images...
New Orleans never been there, but sure heard alot about it. Hope you have a good successful business trip:D
Talk to ya when you get back to WC...
As always Max appreciate your thoughts, comments and suggestions I have a lot to learn.:D

Best,
Kathy:D;)