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View Full Version : Rushing Water Number 2 - feedback please?


Exurban
09-16-2005, 12:35 PM
I am working on another view of my previous Rushing Water scene (posted in September Thumbnail Gallery thread: http://www.wetcanvas.com//Community/Projects/index.php?cmd=view_image&entry_id=49878, and I am struggling with a few things, primarily the tree (it somehow looks stuck on). Also I have a tendency to not have enough variance in values (I'm trying)!

Any constructive criticism would be welcomed!

Here is the painting so far, followed by the reference photo:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Sep-2005/66515-Rushing_medium.jpg

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/16-Sep-2005/66515-Rushing_ref.jpg

artmom
09-16-2005, 01:22 PM
Looks to me as if you need to darken the boulder to the right (as viewed) of the tree. Also, in your reference, the water rushing past the tree is much darker than you have.

You just need to push your values a bit. :)

Lyn

Strawberry Wine
09-16-2005, 04:01 PM
Hi Pat, This is looking good!!!!

I agree with Lyn on the shadows on the rock, behind to the right of tree.

Here is a little tip;

Grey scale the photo reference in your image program. If you use Photoshop, up the levels and saturation a bit. Do the same with your painting; grey scale it and up the levels and saturation. Print them both out.

You should be able to see where you need to increase your dark values. At this point in your painting you have a lot of lights (good you want to keep them) and mostly middle range values and not enough darks.

I would start with the rocks and then the upper foliage. Then post it here again. Leave the water as it is for a bit. That's going to be the trickiest, at least it would be for me. :)

Hope this helps a bit.

Cheers,

Gail

Exurban
09-16-2005, 04:07 PM
Thanks, Lyn and Gail. Gail, in fact for the very first time (thanks to my buddies at WC!) I did take a photo of the painting, upped the histograms and greyscaled it, then greyscaled the original photo, that was very helpful! I then went back in and attempted to darken the trees in the back and the shadows up front - looks like not enough, though (what a coward). I am nervous about making it too dark - but I need to go at it again, I can see that. And that darned grey rock on the right as well! Thanks for the feedback!!

FriendCarol
09-16-2005, 04:23 PM
Something to think about, just a bit: In your reference photo, just look at the photo and ask yourself what's the weather? It's a sunny day with strong shadow contrast: You can see where the water catches the sun, and where it's shaded; you can also see the shadow on the rock. (Note: generally, shadows are 40% darker).

Now look at your painting. It doesn't look like a sunny day with strong shadow contrasts. Do you want it to be (that's a choice for you to make!)? If so, start thinking about where the sun is, how it's making shadows, where the shadows are. ;)

Strawberry Wine
09-16-2005, 05:05 PM
I then went back in and attempted to darken the trees in the back and the shadows up front - looks like not enough, though (what a coward). I am nervous about making it too dark - but I need to go at it again, I can see that. And that darned grey rock on the right as well! Thanks for the feedback!!

I hear you Pat!!!! Me too!! BUT Adding those darks will bring out the sunshine and kick the painting up mega notches.

Cheers,

Gail

juneto
09-16-2005, 08:31 PM
Hi , Yup,
Since the Boulders are closest to you they need to read with more clarity or detail. You have done a great job on the Tree and water.
Next time leave a few sky spaces in the background for a color change of pace to all the Green.
June :wave:

Exurban
09-16-2005, 08:58 PM
Thanks, Carol and Gail - I appreciate the critiques, there's not much point in just saying "good painting, I like the water" or something like that - like you, I want real feedback. I'll post a new version this weekend!

laudesan
09-17-2005, 12:29 AM
Hi Pat..:wave:


You have good advice already. :)

I did look really hard, and I think you have a little too much detail in your white water to be honest..

I am with the others .....punch up your darks...... it will take your painting to a higher plane. And a far better one.

You have the ability to paint awesome works, be brave..:D

rue d'oak
09-17-2005, 01:00 AM
Grey scale the photo reference in your image program. If you use Photoshop, up the levels and saturation a bit. Do the same with your painting; grey scale it and up the levels and saturation. Print them both out.

You should be able to see where you need to increase your dark values.
Gail, great tip!!

yes, Pat, I can see that with the lighter color of the rock, it almost makes it sit on top of the roots -- part of that "stuck on" feeling. And there are highlights on the source roots. Wonder if that would also help.
Jen

Exurban
09-17-2005, 12:30 PM
Thanks, everyone - I just started painting last October, so I am still learning my way with watercolours (I guess that never stops, does it). Watch this space for the update!

Strawberry Wine
09-17-2005, 02:36 PM
Thanks, everyone - I just started painting last October, so I am still learning my way with watercolours (I guess that never stops, does it). Watch this space for the update!


Pat, you are painting extremely well for just under the year mark. I had imagined you had more painting years behind you .

I do hope you are not going to redo this painting. You are almost at the finish line.

Looking forward to seeing the progress,

Cheers,

Gail

P.S Thanks Jen.

Exurban
09-18-2005, 01:18 PM
OK, here is my next version - I thought I punched those darks up a lot, it doesn't show as much as I thought, though. Darkened rock to right of tree, darkened foreground shadows and added textures to rocks, Flung more darks on background trees, darkened water towards the front, and increased highlights on tree. Whew - tough masters, you guys. Comments?

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/18-Sep-2005/66515-Rushing_medium_too.jpg

laudesan
09-18-2005, 08:57 PM
Wow yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perfect..

Almost photographic... :clap:

Exurban
09-19-2005, 09:25 AM
Thanks, JJ! I want to paint more abstractly and more loosely (the water was done by flinging masking fluid all over the place), but when the chips are down I find myself back aiming for perfection. I guess it's hard to overcome some personality traits!

FriendCarol
09-19-2005, 03:46 PM
Pat, I agree you've done an excellent job painting this. (I doubt I could paint this well!) Only thing is, I'm not sure I know what your center of focus is, or what you wanted to express in this painting. Is it possible you've reserved the whites too much?

When I look at the ref photo, what strikes me is the warm/hot sun contrasting with the fast, cool water. Your first painting says it's a hazy day by the water, and comes very close to saying something about the fragility of the way that tree clings to its rocky perch. The second painting says (to me) something like 'this would be a bad place to try to cross this stream.' All that white water makes quite a barrier!

You could very probably sell either of these, however. They're good paintings, so you might want to ignore me. ;)

Exurban
09-19-2005, 04:00 PM
Thanks, Jen - I think "this would be a bad place to try to cross this stream" is closer to what I was aiming for. I wanted the water to be the focus rather than the tree - it was breathtakingly violent. So maybe that shift happened when I heightened the contrasts - the water became the focus. That works for me, but I can see where you are coming from too. Thanks for the feedback - what a great place to get comments from people who love to paint and have keen eyes based on years of experience! I wish I had found WC! sooner!

tep394
09-19-2005, 04:57 PM
Pat: I like what you've done with this. The colors are rich and you've handled the greens very well. My only nit is the angle of the water. It is almost as if the water is banking up on the far side of the river, like a log flume ride at an amusent park or a waterslide. The line of the far bank is a flat diagonal line whereas yours is an arc. I think you've got a winner here and I don't want to discourage you. It's just what struck me as I looked more closely at your excellent brushwork and coloring.

Glad to see you posting. Hope to see more.

Exurban
09-19-2005, 06:02 PM
Thanks, Tom - I'll be posting more, it's so great to get feedback. I probably pushed the water thing a bit, and should have taken more care - what the heck - better to go too far than not go far enough (life is short, right)?

Helen
09-19-2005, 06:34 PM
Nice work and good comments already. I only have one other suggestion... your tree would look more grounded if there was just a tad bit of foliage on the ground. Even without it the piece is looking very good.

Exurban
09-20-2005, 12:01 PM
Thanks, Helen, Tom, Carol et al.... I'm still not quite satisfied myself, so I'll do one more tweak. I usually quit long before this point!

Exurban
09-20-2005, 02:07 PM
OK, I think I have addressed most issues with this painting, and learned a lot while doing it too! There are shadows on the water at the far side of the chute now, and I also strengthened the rocks in front and tree a bit more to help with the depth. I will post it in the Gallery as done - I want to start another one! And thanks, all.... I couldn't have done it without you!

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Sep-2005/66515-rushing_water_med.jpg