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kiwicockatoo
01-14-2002, 04:44 PM
Ok, so I'm working on my first oil. Thought the underpainting looked pretty gross.

Today, the underpainting was quite dry, so I rubbed a thin layer of linseed oil all over the surface before I began to paint again. Suddenly, the painting looked beautiful! The colors became rich and the entire surface looked lovely and consistant. Had a lot of fun slapping the paint on with a tiny bit of linseed oil as medium. A couple of questions:

When the surface becomes dry, if I want to work on it some more, can I rub more medium on it? It really made the paint go on nicely!

Also, how many layers can you add on? Right now I have a very thin under painting with a fatter fresh layer on top. Not sure how many times I can correct on top of layers.

I'm starting to understand the appeal of this medium. It's very forgiving and helping me to be much more spontaneous than I usually am. Wonderful stuff. I'm feeling very happy today!

dnip24
01-14-2002, 06:15 PM
I hope to see it soon!

paintfool
01-14-2002, 06:53 PM
If i am going to add linseed oil (which i really don't use that much) or any other medium to a dry underpainting i prefer to only add it to the areas that i will be working on, painting it on with a brush. But that is how i usually use medium anyway. I don't mix it into my paint on the palette. I've never really found the need to add an entire layer to the overall piece. Adding all that extra oil does not make me feel as though i'm accomplishing much. But that's probably a matter of personal preference. As for the layers, you can layer as much as you want. Rembrandt is said to have used twenty the thirty layers on a single painting.
It sounds like you really are starting to get the appeal of oils. Wonderful stuff!
Cheryl

Wayne Gaudon
01-14-2002, 07:05 PM
once you add the oil to the painting you don't need to add any to the paint as your paint will slide anywhere you want it to and with ease ..

kiwicockatoo
01-14-2002, 07:25 PM
dnip - thanks - at the rate I'm going, should be ready a year from now (just kidding!)

Paintfool - I was following a suggestion someone else had posted (I think it was Vallarta - thanks) about keeping a consistent surface overall. Since I covered the entire area I oiled with paint today, I felt it helped a lot. I'm trying to keep the use of medium to a minimum and uncomplicated. I did buy a jar of liquin, but the stuff is such an awful brown color in the jar I'm scared to use it - maybe it's supposed to look that way?

Artist - I used a very teeny tiny bit of linseed oil as a medium. Maybe I did the wrong thing - I'm guessing the painting will take forever to dry now. the paint sure went down well though.

Well, if things don't turn out well on this painting, there's always the next, and the next....;)

nam26b
01-14-2002, 07:59 PM
In my limited experience, using the nasty-looking brownish liquin doesn't do anything noticable to the colors. That's probably because it takes such a tiny amount to thin your paint. I actually tried mixing a ton of iquin into white paint (something like a 40/60 mix) and letting it dry. the dried paint was very shiny and less color-intense, but I couldn't tell much if any difference in color.


Hope it helps,

Nathan

paintfool
01-14-2002, 08:17 PM
You'll hear various thoughts on Liquin but i love it and no i haven't had any problems with discoloration. However, i use it as well as all mediums in moderation. It takes a tiny tiny little bit to get the desired effects. That goes for liquin and anything else. I think one of the most common problems that people have with mediums is over usage. I put a pile of it on my palette and grab up a little bit at a time, to be applied to my canvas before dipping my brush in the paint (only if i want to even use medium) There are other situations where i'll dip the brush into the liquin, again, in moderation, and then onto the paint. It's something you'll get a feel for after some experimentation. I like stand oil a lot too. It lends a very smooth and workable texture. Stand oil, in my opinion is a bit better to add directly into your paint. The oiling out that is most commonly done (when oil is rubbed into the entire piece) to unify the sheen of the entire piece and is usually a last step before varnishing. Yes it does make a nice slick surface for adding new paint but i don't see the point in adding more oil to areas that you will not be working on at that time. A lot of uneven sheen problems are corrected with varnish alone. The more oil you add to your painting the longer it will take to be ready for varnish.
Cheryl

kiwicockatoo
01-14-2002, 10:02 PM
Nathan - thanks, that's good to know that liquin won't change my colors. Looks pretty scary in the jar.

Cheryl - actually you are the reason I bought the liquin in the first place! I did a lot of reading on mediums before I bought (also on glazing) and I noticed that there are people that hate it with a passion and there are people that love it. You have a post somewhere that you use it a lot and like it - so I felt it would be worth a try. When I got it home and took a good look at it I thought that my bottle must be bad or something because it looked so awful. I'm sure I'll get around to using it on a future painting. As for stand oil, I really want to buy some but the store was out of stock when I went there so I settled for plain linseed.

Thanks for the info!!!!!!

rebob
01-14-2002, 11:04 PM
Nathan - thanks, that's good to know that liquin won't change my colors. Looks pretty scary in the jar.

That's just what liquin looks like..... You won't even notice it once you've mixed it with the paint, but do make sure you shake it very, very well before applying....

Bob

Luis Guerreiro
01-15-2002, 07:41 PM
Try to oil out with a 50% mix of linseed oil and turpentine. Oiling out with just linseed oil carries the risk of adding too much fat to the layer you just finished working on hence making the application of paint to the next layer too slippery. Also, the addition of linseed oil alone can retard the drying time.
There is an alternative to oiling out which is to apply a thin layer of retouching varnish over the previous layer, producing the same effect of bringing out the colours and re-balance the brilliance across the entire surface of the painting.
I got recently into the habit of oiling out after every single finished layer and allow it to dry for a few days before going on to the next layer, because I think it enhances the translucency of all the layers giving the painting more depth of colour, but hey... each painter has his/her own ways of working so as long your method is sound and works for you, you should be absolutely fine.:)

paintfool
01-15-2002, 08:27 PM
Thank you Luis for your input. The drying issue is the main concern i've had since the beginning of this discussion. Mixing it with turpentine makes much more sense to me, if one decides to do this. Your ideas of it enhancing the translucency of the individual layers is a very interesting one. It's nice to see you BTW!
Cheryl

kiwicockatoo
01-15-2002, 09:28 PM
I was worried about the dry time too. But - I oiled the underpainting yesterday, covered the entire surface with another layer of paint - and today when I went back to work on it, some areas were touch dry already. I don't know why it's drying so fast - although I'm using a lot of raw umber, which seems to be drying terribly fast (even on my pallet). Who knows, maybe when I'm done the whole painting will self destruct but then I'll know what to do right next time....

btw I was concerned the oil was leaching into the support(masonite) but I don't think so - there is three layers of gesso on the support, and like I said the paint is drying on my pallet just as fast (ceramic plate).

vallarta
01-16-2002, 03:10 PM
I would not mix lindseed oil with either turp or paint thinner. Why? Becasue it tends to defeat the reason you oil out in the first place. You want to add oil to the paint so the dried out spots get refreshed.

I have converted to now using only lindseed oil for glazing. It has wonderfull properties of it's own...not the least is that it drys overnight.

vallarta

kiwicockatoo
01-16-2002, 03:29 PM
Vallarta - THANK you!
I'm getting confused about linseed oil in general.
Was just perusing an old Artist's mag and came across an article that said NEVER add straight linseed oil to your painting or paints. It blamed a rippled appearance on this practice. I don't think I'm adding enough oil to be a problem! On the other hand, I've read articles that say to use ONLY linseed as a medium, and use as little medium as possible. I guess I'll find out soon enough whether or not my paintings will stand the test of time.

How long does it take for ripples or crackles to show up in a painting? If your painting is ok after 6 months will it be ok forever?

Luis Guerreiro
01-18-2002, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by paintfool
Thank you Luis for your input. The drying issue is the main concern i've had since the beginning of this discussion. Mixing it with turpentine makes much more sense to me, if one decides to do this. Your ideas of it enhancing the translucency of the individual layers is a very interesting one. It's nice to see you BTW!
Cheryl
Thanks Cheryl. It's nice to be back. I was writing more than painting so I stopped for a while ;) and then mt old computer had a bad fit and dropped itself dead on my lap. I'm back online with a brand new machine now.
Well I also find it makes sense to mix 50/50 with turps (pure gum preferably) for the purpose of oiling out. Linseed oil looks "gentle" but it is a very strong oil and if using this oil alone to oil-out is the same as rubbing pure fat on the painting. This could really unbalance the fat-over-lean principle, in my view. Turpentine doesn't dissolve the layer, it simply "cuts" the fattening effect of the oil, prevents it from wrinkling while drying and imparts a more balanced finish which in turn will help the application of the next layer. I have been working on an abstract which relies heavily on blues glazed over and over again (so far 12 glazes) contrasting with strong reds, oranges and yellows and I noticed after 12 glazes that oiling-out helps the effect of translucency. I had recently friends for diner and one commented that the blues were very dark. When I turned the spotlights On, his jaws crashed on the carpet. Glazes eat huge amounts of light and the full translucency of the glazes came to life. I oiled out every single layer before the next glaze and this was the key for such an effect.

Luis Guerreiro
01-18-2002, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by kiwicockatoo
Vallarta - THANK you!
I'm getting confused about linseed oil in general.
Was just perusing an old Artist's mag and came across an article that said NEVER add straight linseed oil to your painting or paints. It blamed a rippled appearance on this practice. I don't think I'm adding enough oil to be a problem! On the other hand, I've read articles that say to use ONLY linseed as a medium, and use as little medium as possible. I guess I'll find out soon enough whether or not my paintings will stand the test of time.

How long does it take for ripples or crackles to show up in a painting? If your painting is ok after 6 months will it be ok forever?
I believe your magazine is absolutely right. With all due respect for different views on this matter, I recommend that one should NEVER use oil alone as a medium or for any other purpose such as oiling-out. This is true for linseed oil and also for other drying oils (nut oil, poppy oil, linseed stand oil or even sun-thickened linseed oil). Oils must be used sparingly and usually mixed with other ingredients, usually turpentine and some resins. To use just linseed as a medium in small portions is also incorrect I think. But to use as little medium as possible is absolutely correct. A painter paints with "paint", that is to say with pigment. Paintings need to be pigment rich, not medium rich.
There are hundreds of reasons for paintings to crack, wrinkle, whatever... And to determine the cause of a problem can be troublesome. Some problems are well known. Dull areas usually are caused by too absorbent grounds or badly prepared grounds. The ground absorbs the oil thus leaving the surface too matt and boring. Wrinkling is often caused by too much oil. The list is endless. I would like to suggest 2 good books if you haven't heard of them yet:
1. The Artists Handbook, by Ralph Mayer
2. The Materials of the Artist, by Max Doerner
Both give sound advice although I trust Max Doerner advice more than any other authority on the subject of oil painting. It gives excellent advice and contains sound information on techniques of the Old Masters also, which can be brought back to life in modern painting.
I guess we will soon be discussing oil mediums in this thread, don't you? ;)
Keep in touch :)

impressionist2
01-18-2002, 07:05 AM
Kiwi and Luis,

When I first started painting with oils, I used to add linseed oil right into the paint. Not only did that dilute the pigment but at the end of the painting, some areas were matte and some had gloss. Not good.

I have since weaned myself completely off linseed oil and this is the first time I have heard of rubbing linseed oil all over the top of the painting. Btw, what kind of cloth did you use to apply the linseed oil, so lint did not come off onto the surface?

I like Luis' suggestion to use retouch varnish spray. I have damar on hand and will try that next time.

Interesting thread.

Renee

Luis Guerreiro
01-18-2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by impressionist2
Kiwi and Luis,

When I first started painting with oils, I used to add linseed oil right into the paint. Not only did that dilute the pigment but at the end of the painting, some areas were matte and some had gloss. Not good.

I have since weaned myself completely off linseed oil and this is the first time I have heard of rubbing linseed oil all over the top of the painting. Btw, what kind of cloth did you use to apply the linseed oil, so lint did not come off onto the surface?

I like Luis' suggestion to use retouch varnish spray. I have damar on hand and will try that next time.

Interesting thread.

Renee

Hi Renee,
The best way to avoid lint getting into the surface is to use linen muslin or nylon cloth. Damar retouch varnish is a good alternative. To add oil into the oil paint only makes it fatter which doesn't necessarily bring good qualities to the work. Oil paint contains various amounts of oil, depending on the pigment characteristics. Tube oil paint is even worse because manufacturers tend to add excessive oil, to maintain high shelf life of their products. I think we should really discuss mediums in more detail, especially traditional mediums, made out of oils, natural resins, etc...:)

Einion
01-19-2002, 05:52 AM
Vallarta, in your recent recommendations of oiling out here and in other threads I think you should be more careful to state that you are using hardware boiled linseed so people can take your recommendations with a pinch of salt! Boiled linseed oil dries many times faster than cold-pressed and I won't even get into its poor ageing performance here.


There are two main issues with oiling out:
1, potentially you are leaving a layer of linseed oil on the surface with no protection from a pigment, hence it will yellow more and faster than any of your paint layers.
2, it makes it hard to follow the fat over lean rule assiduously, which is paramount for the paint layer to age well.
If you feel you do need to oil out to check values/colours before continuing, you should use the absolute bare minimum of oil which is sound overall advice.

Kiwi, there are a lot of people who study Old Master paintings who think many of them used nothing but linseed oil - recent detailed studies of a number of Rembrandts failed to show the presence of any resins at all. And yes, a good rule of thumb is to use as little oil or medium as you can possibly get away with. What you mention about varying recommendations is a big problem today and there is no easy answer to this. Old, respected sources like Mayer and Doerner have been shown to be full of misconceptions and suppositions and modern sources can be just as bad. This is just something one has to keep on top of and try to find solid sources that corroborate each other as much as possible. For myself I would advise painting as simply as possible and to test materials for oneself.

Wrinkles can show up very swiftly but if they haven't appeared by the end of the complete drying period I believe you're safe from them (not sure about this). This quote might help, "Thick... colour layers with a high oil content and little pigment tend to wrinkle. This does not mean than an unsuitable drying oil was used as a binding agent or additive; rather, it is a natural property of these oils that occurs particularly in linseed oil, the best of the drying oils used in panel painting." I won't bore you with the technical explanation of how this occurs but again, the less oil you use the better.

As for cracks, there are two main types - drying cracks and age cracks. It's important to remember that all oil paintings crack over time but drying cracks are largely the result of poor painting construction and/or technique and/or materials as they are rare prior to the 19th century. They are very complex (11 pages devoted to this alone in one of my books!) but generally to minimise them make sure the support is well constructed and has enough key to hold the overlying paint layer(s), work fat over lean, and either paint in one layer only or paint only on completely dry underlying layers. Painting over partly-dried layers is a prime cause of problems in oil painting and a good illustration of why patience is a virtue for oil painters.


Luis, it is risky to apply solvents over oil layers unless they are very lean and completely dry, I would be vary wary of your 50/50 advice for an oiling out medium as a general rule. If one followed your suggestion it would be quite easy to construct a painting that has a leaner layer over a fatter one inadvertently. Ideally one needs to match or exceed the fatness of the layer that you're applying to, which is hard enough to estimate using just paint and medium, much less with a layer of medium which might not be fully consolidated with the applied paint (hence my criticism of using Maroger's in this way, even if the medium were a good idea in the first place).

And as for retouch varnish, it should be banned! If one cares about one's paintings lasting, resins should never be added to the paint layer ('course if you don't care about longevity anything that benefits one's technique is fine). Resin varnishes/mediums remain soluble over time (while an oil/pigment layer is incredibly more resistant), that's why soft resins are used in varnishing in the first place - so they can be removed, you don't want this attribute added to your paint do you? The use of varnish mediums is a cause for significant concern when cleaning (remember this should be done every 40 years or so, we're not talking hundreds of years here) and their abuse in the 19th century has caused many paintings from this era to be in poorer condition today than many well-constructed images that are centuries older.

Einion

online art
01-19-2002, 10:27 AM
:confused:

Oh man, my head is spinning. Can anyone give a step-by-step approach on what should be done with this oiling out problem, in simple terms so that even I can understand.

Jason

paintfool
01-19-2002, 03:40 PM
:) Yes onlineart the entire subject is wonderfully mind boggling. There are many thoughts on the proper or the most effective use of mediums. It makes for fascinating reading but can be confusing. Read it all! Try some of the recipes and methods you'll read here and then very carefully study your results. I like to take swatches of canvas and play with the varying techniqes then put the 'work' through different heat and humidity tests. Throw it in the freezer, put it in a warm oven, let it sit for a few months, in direct sunlight. You'll see the differences. Make sure that you take notes on the peices as you're doing them. Find the artists here who have given sound or interesting advice and follow that artists thoughts. The mystery will never be completely solved and you may change your methods as you progress (but not on the same peice please :D ) read, play, learn. As much valuable info as i've gotten here i have to see it to believe it!
Cheryl

Titanium
01-19-2002, 06:15 PM
Jason ,

Nutshell

[1] Using a slightly absorbent canvas.

[2] Draw image in solvent thinned paint.
Separate into light and dark - no detail .
Use a light colour [ Mars yellow light and
lighter ]

[3] Straight from the tube - brush pressure
to keep the paint thin , but opaque . No
texture in the paint.

[4] Add a very little stand oil to your paint .
[ that's your medium ] or thin the stand oil
to water thinness with solvent and apply
only to the area you are going towork in.
Wipe out where you have not worked at
the end of the day.

a] Use a pigment rich paint - can be stiff or
slightly fluid in texture ---- just pigment rich.

b] Why ? Stand oil - does not yellow as badly
as linseed oil , strengthens the coat and aids
in painting.

You can also thin stand oil with some Walnut
Oil , also low in yellowing [ is Walnut Oil ].

Stand Oil is very strong as little as 5 to 10 %
added to 95 to 90 % , will give the required
coat strength.

All oils , resins , oleoresins , yellow , red or
brown with time .
Stay with -

Pigment Rich - oil poor .

If you wish to use a Grisaille or underpainting
it must be left as a 3 on the grey scale - where
1 is lightest - 10 darkest.
Otherwise with time the undercoat will come through.
This is PENTIMENTO.

Read Doerner for painting technique.
Technical information of Doerner is OLD and often
misleading.

Keep up with the National Gallery Technical Bulletin
[ London ] for sensible technical painting information.

See the colour studies of Rubens to fully understand
the above.

Avoid Oil Rich Glazes , they are the death of a painting.
Use naturally transparent pigments and preferably
with low oil usage .

Read , Read , Read .
Hope this helps.
Titanium

Paintfool / Cheryl see if you can contact -- Allan Banks.
He is on your side American Society of Classical Realists
on-line.
Learn to work out of shadows , stronger technique than
Grids .

Best of Luck.

ldallen
01-19-2002, 06:55 PM
Boy, my head is spinning, too - again. We've talked about this so many times. I'm learning that less is more when it comes to oil. I use as little as possible. I only use turp mixture on the initial sketch. Rob Howard ranted and raved about glazing and using oil to make "washes" out of oil paint - I tried his authoritative instruction and I must admit he's 100% right. So now I use full pigment for glazing most of the time though occasionally I have to thin down my paint a little. Heaven only knows what I've done with my paintings through the years - but so far they are still all in good shape. Guess I won't be around long enough to know if they are going to eventually crumble - but hopefully my newer ones will last for my great grandchildren to admire (I hope they will admire them)!

Luis - hello - hello!! Missed you and so glad to see you back!!

paintfool
01-19-2002, 08:01 PM
Thanks Titanium!

C

kiwicockatoo
01-19-2002, 09:32 PM
Thankyou everyone for your advice. Read, read, indeed! I think I will print this thread out and go over it more carefully later. Some conflicting advice here!

Here's where I'm at:
1st layer - thin paint with a teen bit of sansodor (please don't tell me sansodor is bad - I got it because my husband has allergies and I was worried about the smell of turp).
2nd layer - oiled out with refined linseed and used that mostly as my medium, just a teeny touch of the oil to the pallet here and there.

One thing - I guess I used the wrong kind of rag to oil out, lint every where, ugh!

Now, the painting is complete except for details, although I'm a perfectionist so I might be fiddling with it for a while. It looks pretty awesome, so I guess I'm doing something right. Might try to do things a bit differently on my second attempt though, just for fun. I'm finding I really don't need hardly any medium at all to suit my needs. I like to do a lot of scrumbling, a habit from acrylic painting I suppose.

Please keep your opinions coming, this thread is getting really interesting!
Brenda

PS I came across an interesting article on the net somewhere on glazing - it said never use medium to glaze! just brush on the pigment and spread and wipe till you get the effect you want. I've already noticed some pigments have amazing transparency - alizarin for example. So many ways to get to the end.

Luis Guerreiro
01-22-2002, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Einion
(...)Luis, it is risky to apply solvents over oil layers unless they are very lean and completely dry, I would be vary wary of your 50/50 advice for an oiling out medium as a general rule. If one followed your suggestion it would be quite easy to construct a painting that has a leaner layer over a fatter one inadvertently. Ideally one needs to match or exceed the fatness of the layer that you're applying to, which is hard enough to estimate using just paint and medium, much less with a layer of medium which might not be fully consolidated with the applied paint (hence my criticism of using Maroger's in this way, even if the medium were a good idea in the first place).
(...)
Einion

Hi Einion,
Pleased to "see" you. So far I haven't had any "bad" experience with my 50/50 solution of linseed+turps, but I do see your point and agree with it. This cannot be taken literally and adjustments should be made according to the overall progress of the painting. Thanks for pointing that out. However oiling-out shouldn't leave a layer of oil/turps. After oiling-out, with my finger wrapped in a clean cloth in gentle circular motions over the surface, I always clean up the excess, so the result is a "vitreous" surface. Not an oily one.:) Your comment makes sense though, as I say.

Luis Guerreiro
01-22-2002, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by ldallen
Boy, my head is spinning, too - again. We've talked about this so many times. I'm learning that less is more when it comes to oil. I use as little as possible. I only use turp mixture on the initial sketch. Rob Howard ranted and raved about glazing and using oil to make "washes" out of oil paint - I tried his authoritative instruction and I must admit he's 100% right. So now I use full pigment for glazing most of the time though occasionally I have to thin down my paint a little. Heaven only knows what I've done with my paintings through the years - but so far they are still all in good shape. Guess I won't be around long enough to know if they are going to eventually crumble - but hopefully my newer ones will last for my great grandchildren to admire (I hope they will admire them)!

Luis - hello - hello!! Missed you and so glad to see you back!!

Idallen! Hello Hello to you too! Missed you lots. I'm glad to be back.
Boy my head is spinning too... I've got a "London type cold" Sneezing every 5 minutes and my head feels like a bucket of leadshot.
The techniques and mediums we use in oils can actually vary a lot I think, to be quite honest. I just find that what we have to do is to be aware of the important rules and follow a line of caution but there is room along those rules.
Impasto used to be one of my biggest headaches. I used W&N Wingel and Impasto gel, didn't really like it, I have tried wax in different percentages and combinations but the final result wasn't always what I wanted... Until I found an excellent Impasto medium (LUKAS Medium No. 5). A gel medium, fabulous stuff, it dries right through, thus avoiding the common problem of surface drying, but underneath is not dry at all. It dries to a hard but flexible impasto texture, very pleasing. Since I enjoyed the experience, I went on and tried Lukas Medium 1 (especially designed for underpainting and the first 1 or 2 layers), which is matt and gives a good key (without absorbency) and Medium 3 wich thinned can go on through the rest of the work (thin it less and less with turps to keep the fat-over-lean rule). Final layers go with LUKAS Medium 4 (very fat, needs thinned a bit). The results of the experience are interesting enough to leave this note here for anyone to experiment. Drying times are absolutely STUNNING! And there is the advantage of getting away with framing more quickly without having to varnish the painting, which saves time and, allow me to say it... Makes money quicker!:D

Luis Guerreiro
01-22-2002, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by kiwicockatoo
(...)One thing - I guess I used the wrong kind of rag to oil out, lint every where, ugh! (...)Please keep your opinions coming, this thread is getting really interesting!
Brenda

PS I came across an interesting article on the net somewhere on glazing - it said never use medium to glaze! just brush on the pigment and spread and wipe till you get the effect you want. I've already noticed some pigments have amazing transparency - alizarin for example. So many ways to get to the end.
Brenda,
Glazing with just pigment is good advise. Better than the soup thing many authors recommend. And even an opaque pigment can be rubbed on to a translucency effect, depending on amount of pigment. There are mediums designed for glazing though and it always pays out to experiment. Experimentation and your personal notes are your best companion.

paintfool
01-22-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Luis Guerreiro
it always pays out to experiment. Experimentation and your personal notes are your best companion.
I couldn't agree more!

Cheryl

bri
01-22-2002, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Titanium


If you wish to use a Grisaille or underpainting
it must be left as a 3 on the grey scale - where
1 is lightest - 10 darkest.
Otherwise with time the undercoat will come through.
This is PENTIMENTO.



******************************

Titanium,

If you have a moment could you expand on this?

Are you saying the darkest value in the grisaille should be a 3?

I ask because the main use of a grisaille or monochromatic underpainting for me, and they are useful, is to get my subsequent colors right in terms of light and dark. I always seem to do better with less colors on my pallette and making sure I am matching the value.

~bri

ldallen
01-22-2002, 07:07 PM
Hi Luis - you're across the sea - and I've got it, too. Was hoping to buy my camera this week and can't even get out of the house. My nose is like a water fountain.

Agree about the "rules." There comes a time when we have to make our own - within reason. No matter what one person says, another will contradict it - with evidence. Don't paint impasto at this point, I have in the past and probably will play with it again in the future. Tried to get into the National Gallery to see what their recommendations are for mediums but was unable to get to their website - anyone have their exact e-mail address? I've been using Garrett's copal and Old Holland cold pressed linseed oil - love both. I have a fast drying Belize copal that I got from Studio Products that I've been using for miniatures. I have to keep a notebook now so I know what I used on which. I think most of us are pretty much on the same wave length regarding glazing.

Luis Guerreiro
01-23-2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by ldallen
Hi Luis - you're across the sea - and I've got it, too. Was hoping to buy my camera this week and can't even get out of the house. My nose is like a water fountain.

Agree about the "rules." There comes a time when we have to make our own - within reason. No matter what one person says, another will contradict it - with evidence. Don't paint impasto at this point, I have in the past and probably will play with it again in the future. Tried to get into the National Gallery to see what their recommendations are for mediums but was unable to get to their website - anyone have their exact e-mail address? I've been using Garrett's copal and Old Holland cold pressed linseed oil - love both. I have a fast drying Belize copal that I got from Studio Products that I've been using for miniatures. I have to keep a notebook now so I know what I used on which. I think most of us are pretty much on the same wave length regarding glazing.

Les,

Hope you get better soon. I've never used Copal. Can you give me some hints on its use and applications in oils please?
Thanks

PS: I'll check the National Gallery site too to see what they're up to. :p

ldallen
01-23-2002, 06:11 PM
Weeellll, I use it pretty much like any other oil. If my paint is too stiff I add a drop (literally with an eye dropper) to it. Larry Seiler was the one that recommended it originally. The nice thing about it is that you don't see many "dry" spots as you go along. I "think" Larry said at one time you don't even have to worry about varnish when you use it. If I have to "oil out" an area I just brush on a little and rub it in and off with a cloth. I pretty much do the same thing with the cold pressed linseed oil -recommended by Milt (bruin70). I don't know if this is very useful scientifically. Frederic Taubes talks a lot about it in his books - it was his preferred medium. Of course he wrote those back in the 50's but somehow I don't think things have changed that much in terms of technique for traditional oil painting.