View Full Version : Using my first tube of Old Holland is raising questions.

01-13-2002, 01:02 AM
Today, in a fit of artistic-dabbling fervor, I picked up a tube of Old Holland Cadmium Red Deep and after flinging some around (quite poorly) on my practice canvas I am now vexed by yet more questions …

The first thing I noticed is that my idea of a ‘dark’ red is different from every paint manufacturer in the world. Unfortunately, I only had access to color charts from the Jerry’s catalog, which kinda’ sucked for choosing colors.

So, if I need a dark, yet brilliant red that is fully opaque … what color am I looking for? Or is “dark, yet brilliant” a contradiction in terms?

The second thing I noticed is that a little tiny dab of that stuff spreads FOREVER. I was actually quite amazed. Even though I’d read previously that coverage was one of the measures of a good oil paint, it was truly impressive to see what this really means. I painted four small apples and still had most of my little half-inch carcinogenic worm, which I promptly plopped into one of my air-tight “Buddy Cups”. This one tube will probably last till old age and blindness sets in.

So my question here is … which other paints cover like this? Specifically, I’m looking at a set of Sennelier, Blockx, or Rembrant (I have Lukas Raw Sienna and it’s nice, but not like Old Holland. Unless it’s a pigment-specific thang.) at the end of next month. I figure even though I’m learning I want the best paint and brushes I can reasonably afford, so there’s two less things I have to worry about.

As always … thank you for your kind indulgence.

Minh Thong

01-13-2002, 01:20 PM
I m a big Old Holland Fan. I also use Bloxx, but OH is the best for me. Great coverage and lasts for ever, just as you said.

01-13-2002, 01:26 PM
from what i can gather from your post you are wondering if this is a pigment thing or a quality thing. it is both, depends on the pigment, to be sure, but also OHs are awesome paints...they are like love incarnate.

the other brands you listed are of lessor quality and you will find that when painting for years, you'll feel the difference not only see it...

happy painting! :)

Scott Methvin
01-13-2002, 02:21 PM

I had the pleasure of actually visiting the Old Holland factory in Dreisbergen, Holland about 3 weeks ago. The owner, president, a Mr. de Beers, was very generous with his time and information about his product.

Old Holland is a fully pigmented oil paint. That means they put as much dry pigment into the oil as is possible and still workable. It is easier to thin a paint like this, than to thicken a weak one.:D

They are quite concerned with the quality of their ingredients. The raw cold pressed oil is at least 20% pressed by windmill.(for example) The pigment is also of the highest quality. Extenders and fillers are not part of the program, as is sadly the case with most other paint makers.

They also spend a great deal of time using their stone rollers to completely integrate the pigment with the binder. The color label on the tube is the actual paint inside the tube itself.

This is paint that is made in the best possible way. Only making it yourself can you get better. Mr. de Beers says that quality is paramount and he will not skimp on the raw materials. This may make the paint cost more, but it is the Old Holland philosphy.

The de Beers family also has a history of brush making. The company does not make brushes, but they sell oil, acrylic and watercolor paints.

I was impressed with the company and the management. Mr. de Beers even drove me back to the train station in his BMW.

01-13-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Scott Methvin
I was impressed with the company and the management. Mr. de Beers even drove me back to the train station in his BMW.

Pretty impressive Senor Mesa! What a wonderful experience. Old Holland is also one of my favorites for their pigment content, but what we all want to know if you got any free samples from the old man? Heck I would been elated to have been driven back in his 1957 Volkswagen! :oL

Scott Methvin
01-13-2002, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Leopoldo

Pretty impressive Senor Mesa! What a wonderful experience. Old Holland is also one of my favorites for their pigment content, but what we all want to know if you got any free samples from the old man? Heck I would been elated to have been driven back in his 1957 Volkswagen! :oL

Hiya Leo,

Here's what happened: I had contacted them by email and they were gracious enough to invite me at a certain time. Bear in mind I was only in Holland for 3 days and friday was the only day a visit was possible.

The factory is in Dreibergen. I was staying in Amsterdam, a 2 hour train trip away. You have to change trains in Utrecht and then it is the second stop after that.

Well, the train broke down right after we pulled out of a small stop about 4 stops out of Amsterdam. It was raining and about 35 degrees. Me and 4 other guys had to walk about 2 miles to a bus stop and take the bus to Utrecht. Then I got to the Dreisbergen station and could not get a cab, so I walked to the factory in the rain, after getting directions from a kind soul.

By this time I was over 2 hours late for my appoinment (originally 10am) I must have walked 2 more miles to find the factory, which is very non-descript. It was stil raining pretty hard, which made it not fun. I finally stumbled in while the skeleton staff was eating lunch. The majority of the staff was already gone for christmas holiday.

Mr. de Beers assistant knew who I was and called the owner at his home and he came back, just to show me around.

He gave me a personal tour of the basically closed factory and most of all spent at least an hour in his special museum room. This room had everything a guy like me would want to see-concerning oil painting and all the great antiques that are associated with it's history. He had hundreds of really cool artifacts that I had only read about, but never seen, even in pictures. Every kind of pigment in it's raw state, for example. Big slabs of porphry. A giant gold leaf hammer. Big chunk of genuine Indian yellow. Canisters of burnt elephant ivory. Huge quantity of lapis that had been processed for ultramarine. And on and on.

I could have spent a week in there.

After the visit, he offered to drop me at the train station. I did not want to impose upon him any further by asking for any samples or discounts. (It did cross my mind)

I found the biggest and best art supply store in Amsterdam a day later and was able to get some very large tubes for a triffling amount. Less than half of what they would cost in the states. I should have bought more than I did, in retrospect. (I also bought several series 7 brushes for far less than half of what I normally pay.) The tubes I bought are quite large and I haven't seen them for sale in the states.

The best thing about my journey to Old Holland was that my wife didn't want to go with me. She stayed in the hotel. It would have been a different trip if I had exposed her to all that rain and walking.

One of those experiences that will reappear every time I use their paint.

01-13-2002, 03:19 PM
Scott, wow! What a delightful and wonderful story. I can only visulize myself in your footsteps. :oL

01-13-2002, 10:01 PM
Oh dear, sole dissenting voice time again... hehe. :D

Seriously though, some points to consider: Old Holland have a passionate (and vocal!) support group online among oil painters but it's worth a more balanced consideration of their quality since pigment load is not the be-all and end-all of good paint, especially factoring in price. It's worth knowing for instance that their watercolours have a very poor reputation overall in terms of lightfastness and consistency - q.v numerous mentions in Michael Wilcox and Hilary Page's books and on the Handprint site. The lightfastness issues are much less of a problem in oils than in watercolours but are worth a thought - check previous discussions here for specific examples*. As regards consistency, in both meanings, here they don't appear to have a good record at all (tubes half-full of separated binder for example) which reflects badly on their quality control.

While their oils are manufactured with the spirit of packing as much pigment into the linseed as possible this raises some question that are worth considering. In their literature they have in the past consistently stated that they used no additives of any kind while Mr. de Beer, in a post to WC* stated:
Originally posted by Edward de Beer
The original oil colour formulations were unstabilised however, as a result of requests from our customers we reformulated to add a hydrogenated oil (less than 2% in most cases)... No artificial cellulosic or Sodium Alginate stabilizers are used in our products.
This raises the following questions: if the paint was so great beforehand why was a stabiliser necessary? The answer is a fairly simple extrapolation...
If I was an OH user I would be most worried about the mention of hydrogenated oil, which is what I hoped people would notice at the time: what is it? And notice the wording, "in most cases" - literally this means they can use as much as they want in other cases without making this statement any less true (I knew that class in logic would come in handy some day...)
Anyone interested should look up what are considered the best stabilisers, there is a long history to draw on.
Originally posted by Edward de Beer
When my father did his research the ASTM standard was not in existence however, in later years he did disagree with the practice of arbitrarily rating mixed pigment colours at the lowest ASTM rating. He felt it much better to test the paint in it’s finished form which would be the way that the artist used it.
Fair enough, but one must realise that there is nothing arbitrary about rating mixed colours this way, it is accepted by the ASTM, industrial pigment users and everyone else as accurate, and tests consistently prove that lightfast pigments do not protect fugitive ones from fading, so draw your own conclusions. If you doubt this claim, try it yourself: get Ali Crimson, mix it with a known reliable pigment in various proportions and test them all simultaneously, even naked-eye examination will show this to be true, most quickly in critical areas like light tints and thin glazes.

What difference does it make to the quality of the linseed oil whether it is pressed by windmill, electricity or pixies? None whatsoever of course but it makes for great marketing copy doesn't it? It is simply an economic reality that in Holland they can still use windmills for this purpose, water-wheels are still used in some places for similar reasons.

What about stone rollers? What difference does it make to the dispersion of a pigment over steel rollers? At the end of the day none, it does not make for better paint (but again so romantic) it is just more efficient in some cases - other manufacturers use them for certain difficult colours and don't make a song and dance about it. If anyone doubts this is true just check the encapsulation of the pigment particles in oil from various manufacturers with a microscope, cobalt pigments would be the best choice.

And if you want to consider Mr. de Beer's response overall, consider he also claimed "There is no [ASTM] standard at the present time for watercolours"! Oh really, and the ratings one sees on paint from everyone else and in all the literature are what then?

Originally posted by Scott Methvin
Only making it yourself can you get better.
Spoken like a true hand-muller Scott!

Einion (diving for foxhole...)

*You can do a search for the old threads where questions were raised about specific Old Holland paints, and their reliability in general, but be warned, they're all long and involved and full of tit-for-tat nonsense from me and others.

Scott Methvin
01-14-2002, 12:23 AM

I sure don't want to get involved with THAT old discussion again. I was simply relating my story of the visit, as memory allows.

On a similar vein, don't you think that the source of the actual powdered pigment is important to the quality of any paint? I'm guessing 99% (or more) of the big manufacturors buy them from the chemical companies. Most of these are German.

The oil is also important and I bet there are few choices out there for good linseed oil suppliers either.

I read a great little book a few months ago , called, "Mauve." It is the story of a Mr. Perkins from England who invented the coal tar colors. Then the Germans took the basic ideas and really made it into an industry. Ever heard of BASF?

As far as Old Holland goes, I really like the paint that I have used. It is pricey, but always up to my standard. I don't use Alizerin crimson. I love their gambooge lake extra and all 3 indian yellows. Also the terre verde.

Most of all, they were extremely nice people who went out of their way to accomidate a curious American tourist, me. It had a "mom and pop" kind of feel that I really liked too. Not a big corporate entity.

Like you said, I am a hand muller and MY paint is THE best. But if I buy when I get lazy, it's going to be OH>

01-14-2002, 08:02 AM
Einion, Which brands of oil paints do you prefer? and why?

If this has been previously discussed, perhaps you could give me a thread title. Thanks.


James Dean
01-14-2002, 02:07 PM
Every artest likes something different. I would trying a few different brands out. I like Gamblin paint. it is pure pigment and oil. there are no adulterants used in this paint. Like the paint used by the old masters. each paint contains the unique characteristics of the pigments. this is not true of most brands today.
to help you with the question about color I would also sugest that you visit Robert gamblin's page. www.gamblincolors.com you will find there his color book which has a vast amount of info. on every pigment used today.

01-14-2002, 09:10 PM
...Old Holland be their name...


well, What can one say but...T H E Y R O C K ! ! ! Every great thing in life has its bitter detractors.

Anyway, I can't tell you what you are thinking when you say dark red, but Old Holland's PERSIAN (INDIAN) RED is a synthetic iron ixide that packs a punch but is not bright like the Cadmiums. I wouldn't call it muted, but pretty opaque~bright or muted depends on what you put it within.

Check out that color~It's super dense and should last a while.

Give us this day our OLD HOLLAND's WARM GREY LIGHT



"I paint because of something inside me, not something in front of me" ---Rachel Cohen

G.L. Hoff
01-17-2002, 12:31 PM
I know this discussion has gone on (and on and on) before on WC, including the comments about permancence of OH, etc, but here's my 2 cents worth: *OH makes great paint*, no matter how they make it (who cares?). The pigment load is excellent, the covering is excellent, and the quality control (in my short experience) is excellent. I also like Daniel Smith Autograph paints--same comments apply.

I do like some of Gamblin's paint, but really don't have much experience with his formulations.

Oh, and I'm relatively new here (been lurking for a few months), but I do enjoy the discussions. Thanks.

Gary Hoff

01-17-2002, 12:59 PM
I've gotten some great info here on materials, and after trying out one tube of a few different brands I've decided to just bite the bullet and pick up the new set in Old Holland, Blockx, or Lukas. This way I will never have to second guess may paint. Everything else maybe ... including my (non)technique ... but never the paint. :D

Minh Thong

01-17-2002, 11:10 PM
Hi! I have talked to 2 very experienced painters and one says that one bit of Maimeri oils last a very long time and the other says that Graham oils do too. Both are very brilliant colors so you only use a dab with white or other color. I have not tried them yet as I have a good supply right now, but I do have a sample box of Maimeri and plan on using them soon.
Marilee :)

cobalt fingers
01-17-2002, 11:33 PM
I have experienced almost the same thing. I actually have to add oils to the stuff to get it to act like other brands which is sort of impressive. I want to like it more than I do in truth. It's almost dusty.

D. Smith gets me good stuff on time and Holbein is good and Robert's stuff is great too. Paints are rated you know.

01-18-2002, 04:17 PM
Old Holland makes some terrific paint, that's for sure. prolly why it costs so dang much.

i'm no old holland cheerleader (as WC regulars know) but it does have excellent coverage. please note: coverage has absolutely nothing to do with paint or pigment quality. for example, one could use all kinds of different inferior pigments in the mix but as long as the overall pigment-to-oil ratio was high, the resulting paint would have excellent coverage. many student grade "cobalt blue hue" (in the OH nomenclature, i believe these are called "extra") colors are actually ultramarine blue light or an even less expensive pigment.

and coverage is but one measure of a good paint. some other questions to ask would be: what type of oil (vehicle) is used? what stabilizers are added? that said, if i didn't make my own, i'd definitely use old holland. those are some great paints. truly the cadillac of the oil paint world. of course, i'd have to paint a lot smaller, or sell a lot more paintings.

some other brands i've found with excellent coverage: doak's, schmincke mussini. i like holbein but i don't think it has great coverage. a little too thin and the color palette is just short of bizarre. still, i had a tube of chinese red that i used super sparingly as if it were pure vermilion. there are several colors of williamsburg i really like, but the overall quality of that line is just not consistent.

G.L. Hoff
01-18-2002, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by sarkana
Old Holland makes some terrific paint, that's for sure. prolly why it costs so dang much.

if i didn't make my own, i'd definitely use old holland. those are some great paints. truly the cadillac of the oil paint world. of course, i'd have to paint a lot smaller, or sell a lot more paintings.

some other brands i've found with excellent coverage: doak's, schmincke mussini. .

For what it's worth (a lot, I think), your own paint is pretty terrific, too. I have a few tubes that I bought a few months ago and I've found the colors to be brilliant and the coverage and the paint load to be great, too...and of course it "ain't" as pricey as OH...and Doak makes really good stuff, too...

01-19-2002, 06:02 AM
I think it's important to remember that paint is manufactured from different philosophical viewpoints, just like cars - all of them will get you from A to B in reasonable comfort and safety, but they vary from an Escort to a Diablo. In the same vein, other "lesser" oil brands are not made to be like OH, nor are they intended to be (if they were they would be, it's not that difficult). Blockx and OH are made to roughly the same ideal while W&N, Rembrandt, Mussini, Gamblin and M. Graham, to name a few, are made with a different approach.

Scott, I wasn't criticising you, I'm sure they are very courteous and helpful people, but that's not the issue here. I was just making the case, again, for a differing perspective on OH's supposedly unassailable reputation. We like to think that tradition = better but regrettably it is more often correct that tradition = inertia. I don't doubt they pack as much pigment as they can into their paints, but this does nothing to explain how their PV16 can fade or show poor permanence, or the other examples reported first time around now does it? Just because one doesn't like something doesn't stop it from being true, don't shoot the messenger.

Yeah I've heard of BASF, Wilde was right about sarcasm don't you agree?

What we should do is start a new thread about hand-mulled v. commercial oils re. pigment levels, encapsulation, stability and permanence. Especially in light of the historical perspective on what constituted the ideal paint consistency I'm sure that would be most fruitful and informative and dovetail nicely into this discussion.

Renee, brand recommendations are just like car recommendations, or favourite movies or anything else; what it mostly comes down to is personal preferences and perceived value - not real value, that is entirely different (check the prices for raw materials and compare them to the end product if you want a shock - it might make hand-mullers out of more people!) As I think I mentioned the last time around personal preferences are only worth so much unless one has actually compared like with like and, ideally, tested for permanence and lightfastness as well, something most of us are unwilling to do for various reasons. I think Gary's post is interesting in this regard, he equates OH with Daniel Smith, which many people would never do, which goes to highlight what I am getting at.

Personally I would recommend trying a tube or two of as many brands as I could get my hands on and decide which I prefer, weighing the various factors like price, handling etc. Since the thrust of my argument centres on longevity I would avoid Blockx as they are all bound in poppy oil, there is a consensus that it is the poorest-performing drying oil with significant long-term problems. Similarly I would be cautious of any that use walnut oil as it may have similar problems (the literature is not consistent about this). Linseed and safflower are the best-performing drying oils but I would test the paint for myself if at all possible. FWIW Winsor & Newton have what I personally feel, and others agree, is the premier reputation for pigment selection and quality, with the best and the brightest of many pigments and they perform well in independent tests. Rembrandt, Mussini and Gamblin are apparently very good also. BTW if you want to check the previous discussions on this just do a search for "Old Holland" and "lightfastness" in the oil painting forum, they will come up.

Sarkana, nice to hear a more balanced comment about OH. BTW, it may be the "Cadillac of oil paint" but some people drive Bentleys, or BMWs or Mercs... ;)

Tim raises a good point about OH being almost dusty: while we may like to think that pigment load is the be-all and end-all of good paint it IS possible to have too much pigment. There are ideal oil/pigment ratios for each colour and many observers think the leaner oil brands are going to be a problem in the future because of poor film formation, if you don't believe me research it for yourself.

I think this is best left here before we get into the same "I'm right" "No, I'm right" kind of thing we had before. If you care about longevity I think you should test your materials for yourself and learn from the results, or at least make an effort to find out what others have discovered and report. If you don't care about how your paintings age, fair enough, feel free to use whatever you feel comfortable with, I believe you can still find genuine asphaltum if you're interested. :D


G.L. Hoff
01-19-2002, 09:21 AM
[i]Gary's post is interesting in this regard, he equates OH with Daniel Smith, which many people would never do, which goes to highlight what I am getting at.

Einion [/B]

Being aware of your feelings (and comments) about OH in past, I answer this reluctantly. I'm not really equating OH and Daniel Smith except in terms of paint handling, and then only the DS Autograph line, not the cheaper one. As to longevity, I really don't care that much. The "archival" and longevity discussions always strike me as being in the same vein as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Frankly, not worth my time. So just to be clear, again, I'm only talking about how the paint handles and looks.

09-24-2004, 09:48 AM
I think maimeri puro are one of the best oil paints in the market today. their raw umber is a beautiful olive yellow. also, all their colors are very intense and most are single pigment. I also like them because they are all very lightfast and have the pigment code printed on each tube unlike old holland which ive heard they premix alot of their colors. maimeri has alot of single pigment colors. Im sure old holland are great but I dont like that they dont tell you wich pigment is included in their colors. I have been using maimeri and they are excellent. blockx i have not tried so i cant talk about them. maimeri is not very popular thought, i dont know why. old holland is very popular among artists. why is that? maimeri is made in italy and everything, i wonder why maimeri is not more popular among artists? :confused:

09-24-2004, 10:22 AM
Hi Snakum:
To address your question:
"...if I need a dark, yet brilliant red that is fully opaque … what color am I looking for? Or is “dark, yet brilliant” a contradiction in terms?"

I doubt the existence of any single pigment that would meet your needs for different light sources, overall tone of painting, etc., especially if you prefer to work alla prima. But, if you consider glazes, I think you can get what you're after.

Check out these info sources about Vermeer's use of Madder Lake on top of vermillion. Armed with such information, I wouldn't hesitate to try a brilliant transparent red over a darker red, and these days we have numerous varieties of each from different manufacturers.

Section about Red Madder:

Vermeer's Lady With a Red Hat, and numerous useful links:

Hope this helps.

09-24-2004, 10:42 AM
Just to point out that this thread goes back to Jan 2002


09-24-2004, 11:04 AM
Just to point out that this thread goes back to Jan 2002


......and let's not forget that Snakum goes into hibernation. :D

09-24-2004, 01:24 PM
I like the Maimeri paints a lot and use quite a bit of the less expesnsive Classico line, which I then often add higher priced paint to (OH, Blockx, Schmincke, etc.). The Puro line was good and very brilliant, but it was a little to runny for me. I like to add quite a bit of medium, and the Puro would not tolerate that without becoming too thin. But for someone else. . . it would be great to use right out of the tube.
For paint stiffness, I rate the following from thick to thin:

OH is sometimes just too thick for me and hard to blend. My favorite is Schmincke Mussini, but unfortunately it is only available in small tubes and at a pretty high price. So I tend toward Blockx for their inexpensive colors in 200ml and Classico for many other 200ml colors (also Winton 200ml). I use a lot of paint and could not afford a thick impasto 36x48, or larger, made from straight OH!! Jim

09-24-2004, 03:21 PM
Well I'll be dipped in doo-doo ...

I haven't been here since Jesus was a baby (that was a while ago for you godless heathens) and only popped in today to change my email address. And, well lo and behold ... one of my very early threads resurrected from the bowels of WC.

Hope everyone's well!

Still in hibernation ...

Minhommad the Mad Muslim

09-24-2004, 05:38 PM
Well I'll be dipped in doo-doo ...

I haven't been here since Jesus was a baby (that was a while ago for you godless heathens) and only popped in today to change my email address. And, well lo and behold ... one of my very early threads resurrected from the bowels of WC.

Hope everyone's well!

Still in hibernation ...

Minhommad the Mad Muslim

Hey Snakum, the sun must be shinning in Greensboro today for u to peak out from hibernation, so...come on back and play with us, I miss reading all about your adventures ..ie, black oil and such.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :wave: :wave: :wave: Nickel

Trisha H
09-24-2004, 08:54 PM
Minh! - Great to hear from you. Godless heathens miss you :D


09-25-2004, 04:23 AM
thanks gunzorro, you have made it clear for me. i guess so many artists like OH due to the stiffness of the paint and handling, and the large amount of pigment. Yes, maimeri puro is very soft and buttery but also very high pigmented and you get great gamut range with them due to their intensity and single pigmented colors. But I usually have to add some "sun thickend oil" or "stand oil" to make the paint more thick so that it handles better.

thanks to this post, I realise that ive never been to happy about the handling of the maimeri paint and I used to think that all tube paints had the same problem and that the solution was simply to make your own paint.

I even bought some maimeri dry pigment once to make my own oils but it was to much work and to many health issues, So now I just add some thickend oil to the tube paint which helps the poor handling of maimeri paint and I still get that pure intense color of theirs.

I will try OH and Blockx anyway, just to try and see what they are like but what is impotant to me is the color range and lightfastnes not the handling of the paint, because i can compensate this by adding thickend oil.

09-25-2004, 02:51 PM
Maimeri puro are excellent paints. they might not have the handling OH does, but the clear, fresh tone of the pigment is excellent. all the pigments are amazing plus most paint tubes include only single pigment. just adding some thickend oil compansates for their soft buttery handling.

Brian Firth
09-25-2004, 08:35 PM
Try squeezing your paints out onto newspaper, or paper towels or even a cheap paper plate. Anything that is absorbent and disposable will work. This leaches the oil out of the paint and makes them thicker the longer you leave them on the paper. If you leave them long enough you can get them to the consistency of colored clay! Be careful though, you don't want to suck out too much oil or you can risk under binding the pigments. Give it a try, it works great! If you are using high quality paints with little or no fillers, then you are simply adjusting the ratio of pigment to oil, so you can easily get your paints to mimic the thick consistency and properties of Old Holland.

09-26-2004, 04:39 AM
thanks brian, I never even thought of doing that. that is amazing. i just tried it with the maimeri paint and it does not subtract any oil out of the paint though, maimeri puro paint is very compact, what i mean is that its not oily like other paints, maimeri puro is just soft but with no excess oil, maybe its due to the safflower oil that makes it buttery soft, the paper towel works great with the gamblin though, the paper towel really absorbed alot of the excess oil out of the gamblin paint. thanks again for the help :wave:

martha gamblin
09-28-2004, 01:42 PM
Hello. Just a note on pigments. Worldwide, colored pigments are included in one of the only commodity groups to which no taxes or tarrifs are applied. That means, we can buy pigments from Germany without iimport duties. For over 200 years, countries have specialized in certain colored pigments, for example, the Spanish make fabulous Ultramarine pigments and the Germans fabulous Viridian. American made titanium is my choice for the best in the world. So companies that use pigments buy pigments from the same sources. Art materials manufacturers have fewer choices because our customers want the qualities of lightfast pigments.

Regarding oil refiners, you are right to assume they are not all equal which is why we know personally the people who refine the linseed oil we use to make Gamblin Artists Colors.

Best, Martha
[email protected]

09-28-2004, 03:27 PM
Art materials manufacturers have fewer choices because our customers want the qualities of lightfast pigments. Not to mention that pigment manufacturers find it a nuisance to sell 50Kg. of pigment when their main customers buy it by the tractor-trailer load, lots of those pigments that we love so much can be found in the paint on our automobiles.

02-18-2006, 02:46 AM
In my opinion, nothing lasts like OH. Takes some getting used to.

02-18-2006, 10:40 AM
My tube of Rembrand Cad Red light will also last forever and i got it for so cheap.... it was saying to me "buy me" while staying on the shelves of my art store... :)

02-18-2006, 01:38 PM
Maybe Minh will come out of hibernation again.....