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08-17-2005, 12:02 AM
Basic 101 Class 25 Fur


The Fat and the Furrious

Guest Lecturer: Bailey

Ok, so I am a dog. Who better to ask about fur then me. Besides, Jayd was having trouble writing this thing so I took over and here I am.

This is Jayd’s last class for Basic 101 and has asked me to give each of you a big slurp! Also, Anita this puppy is dedicated to you—well because Jayd said you asked for this class. OK, lets talk fur. And then somebody feed me—I like HAM!

First, FUR IS HOT—it is beautiful and it is cute but it is HOT—NOT hot like a fast French poodle—we’re talkin’ tongue sweatin’ hot. That is why my tongue hangs out of the time. The price of perfect beauty don’t, you know?

When you draw fur don’t be in such a hurry to finish the piece—Fur can be broken down in to several key points:

1. Start with Shape—look for simple shapes and draw those—if you are working from a photo NOW is the time to turn your photo upside down. Do NOT flip your dog upside down as we do not like that.

2. Look for patterns and direction—make little arrows showing the direction that the fur travels.

3. When you have worked out number one and number two (sorry but I am a dog—I just had to say that) THEN start putting in your fur.

Here are some other things to remember:

1. direction, direction, direction—remember that each animals furs will run in many different directions. PLAN ALL OF THIS OUT BEFORE YOU PROCEED.

2. Your fur will look much better if you diversify the shapes and lengths of your shadows.

3. Look for and follow the curves when you shade—follow the contours.



6. You can break fur down into these categories-- soft, coarse, shiny, matte, spotted, or striped.

7. Hatching can be your friend—for short, use short distinct strokes—gradually build the fur and be very slow—take your time—the sheltie was not built in a day!

8. Again with the hatching!—for longer fur use longer strokes—makes sense… pay special attention with long fur to things like direction. It is easy to get lost so take your time.

9. Don’t give up on hatching—it is a great way to develop the texture of your fur.

10. Bold lines will give you course fur and Thin lines will give you the look of finer fur.


OK, lets talk about me:

Here is a demo of the creation of me. First , the artist currently known as Jay works out the eyes and the tongue—he says that those are two key points of my personality. Next he worked out the direction of the fur—in my case I have that natural wavy Marilyn Monroe look so he finds points in the fur that make my natural fluffiness stand out.

He starts light and works to dark. Finishing when he is satisfied that he has done what he can.

08-17-2005, 12:03 AM
OK, enough of me—this is Alfredo, Jayd’s weird yellow cat—he is old and has been in many an alley fight—being a male cat and all. In this picture,--again the eyes are important as is the direction of the head Again, he starts with the lights and works toward the darks, again with the looking for of the shapes. Find the shapes first and then, locate the direction that the fur is flowing and then finally add your detail.

08-17-2005, 12:04 AM

For this last series, Jayd wants you to do two animals—choose one that is shorthaired and choose another that is long haired. You can do this project in either b/w or in color. It is your choice.

Reference Links:

Here are some reference links that I picked up for you—you have NO idea how hard it is to type without thumbs. Enjoy!!















Troy Rochford
08-17-2005, 12:29 AM
Good stuff Jay, er Bailey. :)

08-17-2005, 12:41 AM
Great class, Jay has obviously passed on a few tips, Bailey! :clap: :clap: http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/17-Aug-2005/52179-paw.gif

08-17-2005, 05:38 AM
Meow Bailey! :cat: :cat: Here's some nice ham for ya boy. Sit!
Good boy! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Great links. So 1 short haired and long haired. Well as I never finished my orang utan-he will be my long haired and only 25% (if that) done. Nope-the artist not the publisher never got back to me so I will not be posting the orang utan. Need a short haired yet.

Hey CJ :wave: -purrr-fect time to use your graphitints.
Hey all-I saw a post in CP that Cheap Joes has 6, 12, 24 packs available now in the US. Ill bet it'll be a matter of weeks till the tub (72 ct) is available to us here. link (http://www.cheapjoes.com/store/navigation.asp?cat=6719)

08-17-2005, 06:36 AM
You can order the 72 piece set from


They are based in Minneapolis, MN. They also have some excellent on the phone customer service and follow up well with their products if need be. I messed up a digit on my credit card and instead of dropping the order, they emailed me, left me a name and an extension to call if I wanted to move forward. When I called and corrected the problem, the girl I spoke to said they would try to have my order to me within a week or so. Very nice.

Troy--absolutely!!! Its got it all, fur, glass, liquid and attitude!!

Judi, I would love to see the orangutan--keep trying with the permission--if you cannot reach the photographer--get permission from the publisher.

Hi, Dave!! Hope you are going to be jumping in!!!!

Mary Woodul
08-17-2005, 07:58 AM
Oh, JayD, great class, I could wring Anita's neck right now, because I know this is going to be a tough one for me but it is a good time to show off Botas and Canela . BTW, you had never mentioned Alfredo. That is a striking drawing of him. :D

Anita Murphy
08-17-2005, 08:05 AM
Bailey - thank you for this one. Knowing that this was coming I have got head start - will post the WIP later. Say hi to Alfredo!

Mary - I'm sorry!!! Forgive me please!! *on my knees begging* But you guys all did so well on the animals and I totally failed that class - with a capital F!

08-17-2005, 08:35 AM
Bailey, this class is right up my alley. :) I agree your Master Jay needs a break and glad you helped him out with his last class. :)

I am working on furry animals right now, just finished wip collie, still need to finish the wip cocker, and started this kitten last night when I could not sleep.

Would you like me to post the wip collie here too? Was not sure if that was ok.


08-17-2005, 08:40 AM
Just a word on Alfredo--At one time I owned at least 8 cats at one time, Scarlet, Alfredo, Midnight, Piewacket, Mix-Match, Houdini, Gwen, and Torc.

Alfredo was given his name because of his color and his stripes. He looked like a four footed plate of Fettucini Alfredo. He is gone now but not dead--he took to the road and apparently has a HUGE territory--his super power is survivial. He is REALLY OLD. I still see him ever other year or so--he will come stay for a week, get fed and then "poof" he is gone again. He was our favorite cat. I think he left because of rivalry with Torc, who was another tom.

Cathie Jones
08-17-2005, 08:41 AM
Yeah, well, Anita - I totally failed perspective, but I'm sure not gonna ask to have it back!! :D Just kidding . . .

I have actually been wanting to do a kitty so this will be fun. And I can practice my dogs again. Like portraits, it's hard to draw the dogs you know, because you can't fake it - they have to look like themselves!

Bailey, sorry we didn't get to the food fight, I'm sure there would have been ham involved.

08-17-2005, 08:46 AM
Absolutey! Not as woofalicious as a sheltie, of course!! But we still would love to see it.

Anita Murphy
08-17-2005, 08:57 AM
wip leopard. Any tips on whiskers? Sorry the photo is so dark :o

08-17-2005, 09:23 AM
Not sure where to start, but am looking forward to doing this lesson.
Sults - those darks you put in the kitten's eyes make him soo appealing.
Anita - I noted a comment recently that embossing (Marking the paper without making pencil lines that show) was a good way to show whiskers. Not sure whether it is too late for that here.

Anita Murphy
08-17-2005, 09:28 AM
Connie - thanks - I knew I had read something about whiskers too but couldn't remember what it was!

08-17-2005, 09:42 AM
Anita you were joshing us, this is a great start on a leopard gf! I like the eyes shine too. If you have long nails, use your nails to emboss the whiskers, It gives a nice thin line and you can curve it easily.

Ty, Connie, I lightened them some after seeing how beautiful Anita's leopard's eyes were. lol

Troy Rochford
08-17-2005, 10:13 AM
Jay/Bailey - what does this have to do with liquid and glass? (***you commented to that effect in a reply to me earlier in the thread) I'm confused.

Btw, Jay I got your email a few minutes ago. I sent you one last night with an attachment - make sure you check!

08-17-2005, 10:19 AM
Troy--cat in front of beer--beer is liquid, container is glass.

08-17-2005, 10:35 AM
Connie, close--impressing--embossing raises the lines--my wife knows how to do that but I dont. Althought I suppose you could do that. Hmmmmm....

Anita Correct--Troy would you happen to rememer where that thread of discussion is?

08-17-2005, 11:01 AM
Hi all! I just wanted to check in. I've missed a couple of classes again.

I just got back from my painting trip. What a great time I had. My sister Joan and I travelled to Maine for a watercolor workshop. We left home Friday the 5th, and spent Saturday painting at Pemaquid Lighthouse in Maine. Sunday we spent swimming with my other sis and family, and Monday started our workshop. We had a demo each morning, painted till noon. After lunch we had another demo and painted till 4 or 5. We painted fog, schooners and sailboats, harbors and lighthouses. We were told that workshop paintings rarely come out great, and mine were no exception, but I learned a lot and had so much fun. After the workshop was over we took a schooner ride, and then spent two days on Monhegan Island. I just got back yesterday.

I've been having trouble with my eyes since yesterday. I see a lot of large "floaty" things in my right eye, and my vision in that eye is sometimes blurry or cloudy. I have an appointment with the doc tomorrow, and I probably won't be doing any drawing until I find out what's going on. Thank goodness this didn't happen until my trip home. I would hate to have had problems seeing during the workshop or the Monhegan trip. I sure hope this isn't anything serious.

In between unpacking and finding a place to re-store all my painting gear (boy was it tough carrying all that stuff!!!) I'll be reading the last couple of lesson threads to see what you all have been up to. Glad to be home.


Troy Rochford
08-17-2005, 11:09 AM
Jay - Now I understand re the cat. I didnt know you had seen it!!

As for indenting whiskers, I know that I recommended that to Billie in one of her threads and we got into a back and forth discussion about it. This is likely what Connie is referring to, but I don't recall the actual thread. Billie can tell you, I'm sure.

08-17-2005, 11:16 AM
Hiyas Michelle, sorry to hear about your eye, hope it is not serious. Please keep us informed.

Jay, sorry I meant impressing. I used to do embossing like drawings once on thin copper, I forget what it is called. It is a pretty art though.
Especially when added to wood, like on door fronts of cupboards and such.

Troy, I did not see the cat, I wanna see. :)

08-17-2005, 11:28 AM
Mary, glad you had a good trip. I hope the problem with your eye gets sorted out soon.

I seem to recall that CJ gave a tutorial on incising lines that could be used for whiskers in the book report class...I think based in the JD Hillberry book. The method is also mentioned on Mike Sibley's site.

Troy Rochford
08-17-2005, 11:28 AM
sults I have to email it to you, it's too big to post. Pm me your addy again.

08-17-2005, 12:20 PM
JayD :wave: -I have been continuing to try to get a hold of either. :( Not a giver upper though. :D

Hey Michelle! :wave: Glad you are back and the trip went well :envy: So sorry about your eyes-hope you are better soon.

Sults :wave: -Good start on your kitty. :cat: :cat:

Anita- Love the leopard (so this class is YOUR fault! :D ) I think the tip was to place tracing paper over your drawing and draw the whiskers on-indenting the paper. Then the graphite/whatever will not get in the indent on the drawing.

Hi Troy, Dave Mary and Connie :wave:

08-17-2005, 01:16 PM
Hi everyone,

Bailey, great lesson and perfect timing. I'm planning on getting a new computer and finally a digital camera this week. So, I will be snapping away at my cats, whether they like it or not.

Sultry, great start on the kitty. Even at this early stage, I can recognize your style.

Anita, the leopard is looking super. I also really love the drawing you posted for the drawing challenge in the portraiture forum. I'm working on that one now.


08-17-2005, 01:19 PM
Anita, the leopard looks like it is going to be great. Is it on toned paper, or is it just the photo?

Sults, your kitty is looking cute. I think I'm going to have to do our cats...we're all missing them, though we're getting regular reports on them while we're away!

08-17-2005, 01:21 PM
As for indenting whiskers, I know that I recommended that to Billie in one of her threads and we got into a back and forth discussion about it. This is likely what Connie is referring to, but I don't recall the actual thread. Billie can tell you, I'm sure.

here's Troy's first mention of using the indention technique. it's post #159.

the thread was 101 Class 24. RE: how to show water droplets against a dark BG. he also warned me not to over do it with the whiskers on my thread, Hemingway Cat WIP. BTW, i'm using that cat as my long-haired furbie for this class.

Cathie Jones
08-17-2005, 02:51 PM
Dave, you're right about the indenting demo. It was in Basic 9, book reports. My report was on JD Hillberry's book. Here's the demo I did for the class:

The white was indented, then the rest was done in charcoal, and the dents cleaned out a little (didn't take much) with a kneaded eraser.

Troy Rochford
08-17-2005, 03:05 PM
lol Billie - I said don't overdo it with indenting stray HAIRS on the cat!! For the whiskers, indent til the cows come home!!! Or cats, as you prefer:)

Mary Woodul
08-17-2005, 03:15 PM
Wow Anita and Sults, you all are really skidding along this class. Love the kitty Sults.

Anita, that is my favorite animal. I love it!!!

Michelle, sorry about your eye and please take care. Try not to use it much today.

JayD, your story about Alfredo makes my guilty concious rest. Botas just comes home about every three weeks. I thought he didn't like his home anymore. He is out at the ranch but he has two females and just comes to see them. Now we have ended up with about twelve cats that are wild because the two females, Sombra and Manchas had them up in the vines on the wall and they won't let me pet them. They won't come down either because Canela the Australian Red Heeler, not only herds cattle, but herds the cats also.

08-17-2005, 03:27 PM
Male cats have territories that they patrol--they lay down their territory by urinating or marking their boundaries. Some Toms have been known to have territories over 200 miles in diameter so dont fret--the cats just haven't gotten back to you yet. Like I said, I see Fred about once a year--he hangs for a week and then he is off again. That darned cat!

08-17-2005, 03:43 PM
lol Billie - I said don't overdo it with indenting stray HAIRS on the cat!! For the whiskers, indent til the cows come home!!! Or cats, as you prefer:)

I knew what you meant, silly!:p besides the whiskers are already done...w/the indentions...and it worked beautifully!:)

just went back and reread my own post. i should have said hairs instead of whiskers.:o

Troy Rochford
08-17-2005, 04:13 PM
Sults has a kitty posted here? Hmmm, how did I miss that? I should check...:)

Troy Rochford
08-17-2005, 04:18 PM
Sults you are a drawing machine! Good start. You too, Anita. Sorry - I've got a lot of distractions today, so expect my posts to make even less sense than usual!;)

Anita Murphy
08-17-2005, 04:29 PM
Thanks everyone for the tips on the whiskers. I ended up using the end of my new mech pencil - without lead - worked a treat!

JayD - only one way to make a tom cat stay home :evil:

Dave - welcome back! Just a lousy photo - does wonders for paper colours! :D

08-17-2005, 04:49 PM
Wow everyone is so busy already in here. :)
Do I really have to talk to a dog?lol
Sorry I missed out last week and I am not sure if I can join this week but I will pop in to see how you all are doing.It's looking great already.
Jyd or umm bailey lol good drawings,I remember the you lol.Ill check out the links as soon as I can.

08-17-2005, 05:46 PM
Ty everyone on the comments on the kitty :)

Hiyas Bon, gf, I miss you, and I understand with commissions and personal life that you cannot be here but we do miss you alots. Glad you popped in to say hi. :)

I am posting an update of the kitten, with it you can see in different parts of the face how I do the steps to the fur.
First I do as Jay does and look for the geo shapes of the fur, I lightly sketch them out with a F 0.5 mech pencil.

Second, I cross hatch my shapes in the areas that are darkest. Like the cast shadows and such. I use a darker lead, like a HB 0.5 mech pencil

Third, I sketch lightly my hairs all in the direction the fur grows. Also do your impression at this stage too. The whiskers and maybe a few hairs here and there. I do it on the cheeks, ear puffs, a lil on the head (not alot just a few).

Fourth, I take a chamois (now remember to do this lightly) and blend the fur in the direction of the growth). Do not press too hard or you will lose the darker tones, it will turn to all one muddy look if you do. What I do is blend the darks very carefully up to the lights in a lifting manner.

Fifth, Take your kneaded eraser & lightly pull your lights. Do this as if you were shaping the geo shape you are working with. In other words, do it as if your drawing with an eraser and press hard to lift on your lightest areas (highlights) and not so hard in the middle tone areas. This will make your geo shape come out and if you barely dot toward the darkest areas with the kneaded eraser you will have it look natural and blended.

Sixth) Take your 0.5 mech pencil and re sketch your hairs lightly, 1 layer in F one layer in HB.

Seventh) Take your eraser clicker or pencil eraser and sketch hairs with it.
eigth) Take your 0.5 mech pencil again sketch hairs but this time do it only under the eraser hairs.

Nine) Take the kneaded eraser only to dot out the highlight of the geo shape (very very lightly, so you do not disturb your hair effect).
Do 3-8 in layers till you get the desired fur you would like.
Remember when doing a hair stroke to press and pull up and make sure it has a lil curve in it. Always do it the way the hair grows so your darkest part would be the root.

Posting the collie as my long hair ... I did all the steps but I did them with a longer hair stroke. :) pressing from the root and lightly pulling up on the pencil to end of the hair till it almost is an invisible point.

LQQKs down @ Dave, yw,( & ty for the compliment on the collie). :) Sorry I was still editing this when you posted. :) Another thing I am discovering is to get good contrast is to really find the areas that are dark and light next to each other and really do add this rendering too. It will make your work pop. In other words. not all areas are blended from dark to med dark to dark to light dark to dark light to light to very light. Some areas area Dark to Light Dark too.

08-17-2005, 06:10 PM
Sults, thanks for the detailed explanation of your technique. The collie is really excellent. :clap: :clap:

08-17-2005, 06:21 PM
Wow Sults!- you really did that collie proud! I just love all his fluff!
:clap: :clap:
Thanks for the explaination. :)

Anita Murphy
08-17-2005, 06:33 PM
Sults - your collie is WONDERFUL! You go girl!

I am having real trouble with getting any tonal values as my leopard is very evenly lit - is it allowed to add a little artistic license and put my own in?

08-17-2005, 07:16 PM
I am having real trouble with getting any tonal values as my leopard is very evenly lit - is it allowed to add a little artistic license and put my own in?

Hey, we're all artists here...go ahead and use your license! :wink2:

08-17-2005, 07:18 PM
my entry in this weeks class. This is Bear, my oldest Golden. I had this in the works before the class started, but thought I'd post it here. This is on Bristal with mech pencils in seveal grades, and Derwent Rexel dark pencils.

The hair was made withlong strokes on the face, blended, stroked again ect. the hair on the body was made with shorter strokes the same way. but no care taken for evenness. As the fur darkened, the shapes of the tufts on the ear and back began to develop. Darked theshadows.

Not happy with the darker rear on the body. Might erase and work somethind differently. Have to think about it,

reference attached. My own photo.


Cathie Jones
08-17-2005, 07:39 PM
I don't know how many of you hang out at the watercolor forum, but Sults has posted one of the Gospels According to Watercolor: place your darkest darks against your lightest lights.

One other I like is: It's Only Paper. Don't ever forget that. If something is causing you too much trouble, start over on new paper.

Now it's beddie-bye time. Went to the doctor today for the cough that's been keeping me awake . . . it's pneumonia again. Caught it early this time, so I can go to work tomorrow. Dang!!:rolleyes:


08-17-2005, 07:49 PM
Ty, Judi & Anita I appreciate it :)

Awe CJ, take care gf :) hope you feel better in the morning.

Chuck that is a cute dog :) Your getting the values and now all you need to do is add more detail of the fur. Do your strokes of the hair. You have good shaded value tone.

Anita, I can only tell you what has helped me with the collie pic was to invert the values to see them. I have a photo shop program that allows me to convert color to greyscale but also to invert it too. So you would see your darks as lights and your lights as darks. It really for some reason helped me to see the tones.

Another thing is I studied Cherie's Drawing Value (http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/19957/578/)Article over & over. In it is the rule that CJ knows from wc. You can see the diagram on page 3 I think where she shows the values next to each other. She calls it high contrast (darks next to lights) low contrast ( darks next to med darks). It really has made a difference for me to see this finally. I have been reading her article since she posted it but just recently a light bulb went on and I understood how to apply it. Example, under my kittys cheek is shadow but the highlight is next to it and this would be a high contrast area.

08-17-2005, 07:56 PM
Chaz, Sorry didn't respond earlier but I have been on the phone with Sults-LOL-gabby time :D . Awwwe he looks so satiny soft and adorable. I think I would try to add some more flesh to the right (our right) of his nose. Deepen the values on the fur and blacken those sweet eyes and you are there. He is beautiful-your best buddy? :) Great drawing! :clap:

CJ! :( So sorry to hear this. Get rest and get back soon! It's not the same without you! (pssst-skip work!)

08-17-2005, 08:34 PM
Sorry to hear you're not well, CJ. Take to your bed and get pampered! I wouldn't be so confident about being well enough to work tomorrow if I were you...it doesn't pay to rush these things...another day of being looked after couldn't hurt!

08-17-2005, 09:03 PM
Judy and Sults. Thanks for the comments and advice. I'm going to work on those and post a new image tomorrow.

And, yes he's by best buddy. Only becauise I've had him five years longer than Cody my Two year old Golde. Bear is eight.

My cat kat is next project.

Take care of yourself CJ

Thanks Again everyone.


Anita Murphy
08-17-2005, 09:28 PM
CJ - hope you are feeling better soon. Lots of pampering, healthy eating and sleep!

Sults - thanks for your help with the tonal values.

Chaz - love your dog - he looks gorgeous, both in the drawing and the photo!

Phooey! Just realised that my proportions are out. The eyes are too small for the head - so its either try and enlarge them or make the head smaller - or just start again! So close to being finished too! Phooey phooey phooey!

08-17-2005, 10:19 PM
Chaz--I have been looking over Bear--nice looking dog. I dont like the quality of the photo but it speaks volumes of you as an artist that you are able to bring it this far. At this stage, I would like to suggest that you put away the photo and sit down with your dog live (no nudes) and do some studies of the hair and of its direction. I think you have nailed the direction but you need to work on texturing the fur. It is a very nice job so far.

Sults--this is the legendary collie--nice work and the uber darks really work well on this one. I am wondering if you might be laying in the fur too soon--have you established the cats markings (patterns)? Also go with short strokes and follow the directions of the cat's markings. Beautiful job on both.

Mary Woodul
08-17-2005, 10:34 PM
Hi! :wave: Been busy working on JayD's house so that I can start on Botas.

Sults, your collie is just gorgeous, that hair is really pettable.(don't know if that word exists :eek: )

Chaz, your dog Bear is also loving and is coming along fine.

CJ, take care! I agree with Dave, I don't think you should go to work, you can say we told you to stay home. :D

Nighty nite! :wave:

08-17-2005, 10:35 PM
Jay ty, I am lightly sketching the patterns in (you can barely see them , I can see them better in real life though):)

Here is with more layers on the cheek area. I darkened the pattern of the fur over the eye (that is where I will be working next).

Hi Mary, sorry we xposted, ty. :)

08-18-2005, 01:53 AM
CJ, I'm so sorry to hear you're not well. :( Feel better soon.

Chaz, love your drawing of Bear. He looks like a very sweet dog. :) Nice work. Jay has given you good advice. :)

Sults, your kitten has the sweetest little face! Good work with your layering. That left eye is beautiful!

I'm working on a Bernese Mountain Dog drawing - LOTS of fur! LOL It's really late now and I don't feel like scanning it, but I'll post it tomorrow. :)

08-18-2005, 02:14 AM
CJ - Do take care of yourself. It is such a drag to be sick, but maybe this will be quicker than last time.
Michelle - are your eye problems better? The workshop sounds fun and helpful. I will be going to my first in a few months.
Chuck - The Golden is so appealing. A little more definition in the face and he will be finished.
Sults - Thanks for taking the time to list all the steps you use. The kitten is cute and the collie is first class. The contrasts do help make him real.

Mine is a two-for. The bison is from a photo in the image library by Trimoon. It has long hair in front, some shaggy and some kinky and matted. In back it is shorter hair. In fact, the rear end in a fizzle. After that monstrous head and beefy front legs, he goes to a puny finish. But if he were charging me, I would not be looking at his back legs.
The second version was inspired by my printer. It is evidence of my penny pinching. The ink cartridges are both almost empty but I am squeezing out the last few drops printing out reference photos. The colors in this are just about what I got when I printed out the bison. This is a quickie in watercolor. "I never saw a purple cow, . ..."

Mary Woodul
08-18-2005, 06:52 AM
Sults, I like the progress image of your kitty, it is illustrative.

Connie, the pattern and texture is great on that buffalo.

CJ, I hope you feel better and that you didn't go to work! :angel:

Cathie Jones
08-18-2005, 08:47 AM
GOod morning. Thanks for all the good wishes. I am feeling better, and will go to work today.

And I've picked out a cat to do - hopint to try the new Graphitints, the colors look good for this cat.

Connie, "Purple Cow" is my kind of poetry!!

Anita Murphy
08-18-2005, 09:15 AM

Sults - your kitty is so fluffy!

Hi Everyone.

Update of my demented looking leopard. I think the nose is WAY too long.

08-18-2005, 10:04 AM
Ooh, CJ, I'm glad you''re feeling better, but don't overdo it at work!!

Connie, I love your buffalo! Nice work on that nappy head. Are you planning to take it further? I'd love to see you gently blend it with a tissue or chamois and then go back over and layer some more graphite on this. Put some subtle shadows between some of the clumps of his fur and lightly pick out some highlights around his curls. :)

Anita, I love the expression on your leopard! I think what's bothering you about the nose is, you've made those beautiful eyes a bit too close together and the actual nose should be a little wider, which would broaden the muzzle a bit. Still, it's a great drawing and you're doing a great job on the fur. :) I hope you don't mind my comments. :)

I mentioned that I've been working on a Bernese Mountain Dog (in the RIL by Canis Lupess). I scanned a few progress shots last night and just scanned up to where I am with him now.

I literally worked from head to tail on this guy. I'm terrible at explaining what I do when I draw, so I'll just post! LOL He's done on 11 x 14 bristol and I mainly used an 0.7 Papermate mechanical pencil. I tried a 7B on some of the darker areas, but wasn't pleased with the effect, so I went back to the Papermate.




and where I am this morning. Still working on that coat and still have to work on those paws and the tail. :) C&C welcome. :)


08-18-2005, 10:42 AM
Hiyas everyone :)
Sorry been a wild morning here could not get online till now. Ty for the nice comments too.

Connie, I really like your buffalo, cool colors on the other one too. It looks like native american art with the pastel colors.

Anita, I looked at the leopard too, it seems the eyes are too close, one way to judge is to measure from nose wings up to the inner corner of the eyes and see where they should be. I know that your eyes look perfect too, you have them shining so great. I would not mess with this one but transfer the face to another page. Keep your mouth, nose and just adjust the eyes in the correct position. I know it is starting over but it is good practice and you will surprise yourself afterwards of how much more you will like your leopard. I did it with the collie, you can see from the first sketch that I changed the eyes by the time I completed him.

Paula ( we miss you gf) its so good to see you posting here again :) I love your dog wow your a master with fur. Looks so fluffy, I just want to cuddle up close and smell the soft fur. lol ( I know I am wierd).

CJ, So glad you feel better :)

08-18-2005, 11:12 AM
I'm still waiting for my "referral" so I can keep my eye doc appointment this afternoon. I'm still seeing a lot of stringy floaters, and it's hard to get clear vision in my right eye. I should probably start an animal drawing just to keep myself busy until then.

Sults, your collie is terrific.

Chuck, you did a fine job on bear. One little nit though, I don't think his eyes are level.

Connie, great buffalo. You certainly pick interesting subjects.

Anita, I like the leopard. Is it a cub?

Paula, terrific job on your dog.


08-18-2005, 12:28 PM
Hi - Just popped in to see what was going on here - Is this really the last class? Was it really a year ago I started with this? Sorry I could never get back here. The in-law situtation went from bad to worse since March and I had too many commitments to rejoin. Hope to catch up someday and take what I learned here a little further. Thanks!

08-18-2005, 12:28 PM
Connie-Great buffalo :D Agreeing w/ Michelle-you always have wonderful ideas!

Anita, Not demented-looks like a baby waiting for Mom to get back. :)

CJ! (SHOUTING!) inserting un-smiley shaking finger-you should be resting! :(

Hi Sults and Mary! :wave:

Paula :wave: - I LOVE that dog! Wow!
You are doing a fantastic job! :clap: :clap:

Michelle :wave: -we'll be waiting for the Doctor report!

08-18-2005, 12:32 PM
Hi Barb! :wave: :wave: :wave: Sorry thing have not gotten better. :(
Hope you re-join us soon. This is JayD's last Class-but not the last Class-Troy will be leading them from now on. When you can-come back-you are missed!

Anita Murphy
08-18-2005, 12:47 PM
Michelle - hope you get to see the specialist soon. I have a floater in my right eye but they said its nothing to worry about - hope yours isn't serious either. Mine really bugs me most when looking at the computer screen but I go weeks without noticing it.

Barbara - sounds like you need the light relief of coming back!! Hope things get a little better for you soon.

Everyone thanks for your input on my demented leopard. I decided that it was a mixture of the eyes too close together and the nose too long - so I hit it with the eraser. I don't have the patience Sults to start again. It's looking better already - just need to lose the bat-ears now!

Cathie Jones
08-18-2005, 12:54 PM
Paula, that's an awsome dog!! Thanks for the demo . . .

Sults, I've been meaning to tell you I like the kitten's eyes better since you lightened them a little. You do great eyes!

Connie, I like your psychodelic buffalo - he must have been very hard to draw with all of the hair textures.

Anita, I don't know about the other comments, but your cat looks to me as if his head is too narrow from the outside of the eyes to the ears. When I saw your first drawing I thought that the eye/nose perspective looked good, so maybe he just needs a bigger head. and I really do feel well enough to be at work - and am not contagious. Just coughing a lot . . .

Anita Murphy
08-18-2005, 01:10 PM
CJ - you should be at home! Otherwise you will just get worse!

08-18-2005, 01:21 PM
Barbara, good to hear from you, though sorry things are still tough for you. Hope you'll be able to join in again soon.

Anita Murphy
08-18-2005, 01:22 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: WOOHOO - this will mean nothing to those who are not British or know our education system but my son got 2 As and a B in in his A level results!!!!!!!!!!! Just had to get that off my chest! :clap: :clap: :clap:

08-18-2005, 03:07 PM
Jay...excellent lesson and references, as usual. Thanks a ton.

Sultry...your collie drawing is terrific and the kitten is shaping up to be another beautiful drawing. I already like the eye in particular. And, thank you for the step by step guide to your technique.

Anita...Your leopard has character and an adorable expression. I agree with Cathie, the shape of the head is perhaps slightly off...but I like the result.

Congratulations on your son's A level results.

Michelle...I hope the problem with your eye is sorted out soon.

Chuck....I thought you were going to post a picture of Jack Nicklaus :D The drawing is lovely but I think the lighter tone areas need to be reduced.

Cathie...sorry about the pneumonia. I agree with your other well-wishers. You need to ensure that it does not take a hold.

Connie...I like the graphite bison, but my grand-nephew (who is four) LOVED the purple one.

Paula....wonderful rendering of fur on your mountain dog.

Barbara...nice to hear from you again though I am sorry to hear that your problems are not yet sorted out. I hope you rejoin the class soon.

Although I managed to post a drawing for the previous class I have not found the time yet to go through that thread fully. I hope to be a slightly more active participant in this one.


08-18-2005, 05:30 PM
Thanks everybody, for the comments on my dog. I love Bernese Mountain dogs and Toni Marie (Canis Lupess) has added some beautiful photos of them to the RIL. :)

This dog had a harness on in the reference photo that I used. I've taken some liberty and freed him from his traces. :p

I've done a bit more work on this - it's not too noticeable, but I've worked more on the coat, definining the separations of the long fur. I've also done more shading and defining of the legs and paws. I keep forgetting about that tail! LOL

I just can't seem to get a scan to look like the drawing. Between scanning and resizing, some of the detail and tones are lost. :confused:

Anyway, here he is this afternoon. :)


Thanks for looking. :)

Mary Woodul
08-18-2005, 05:31 PM
Sults, Your kitty is looking so cute with that expression in his eyes.

Anita, the whiskers are so nicely drawn and I like the long white hairs on the top of his head. Did you do those also with the indentation? I tried too but mine are not as fine as yours are.

Paula, your demo is fantastic and it is so good to see you in the same thread again.

Michelle, I hope everything is OK with your eye. I see some things floating around when I set my eyes on white paper.

Barbara, I hope things get sorted out with you so you can come back and be with us.

CJ, hope you are better today.....bad girl......you shouldn't have gone to work.

Blah, I also hope you will be with us, in this one!

Hi Judi and Dave. :wave:

I just wanted to post an update on Botas, but this is going to be a slow week for me with a CP and JayD's yard and house. Hope to finish that one tomorrow.


Anita Murphy
08-18-2005, 05:35 PM
Paula - wonderful dog!

Hi Mary - Botas is looking great! I got the whiskers fine by using the end of the mech pencil with no lead for the indentations.

Think he is looking a little less demented. But his left ear is too big now.
Sorry the photo is SO dark :o

Cathie Jones
08-18-2005, 05:36 PM
WOW! Mary, those eyes really popped out at me!! That's gonna be a gorgeous cat.

08-18-2005, 05:40 PM
Sultry, your collie is super! the kitty is coming along nicely, too!

Chaz, love the golden! we had a golden years ago. they never stop being a puppy no matter HOW old they get.

Connie, love you purple buffalo! bet it's the only one of it's kind, too!;)

Anita, your cheetah doesn't look demented, it looks scared sh*tless!!

Paula, the Bernese is really fantastic! love how the long fur is turning out!!!

08-18-2005, 05:43 PM
Paula, you posted right on top of me. you rescued the cheetah!!!! yaaay! that turned out fabulous!!!

CJ, i hope you're feeling better! pneumonia is scary!

Anita Murphy
08-18-2005, 05:43 PM
Billie - ROFLMAO!

08-18-2005, 05:49 PM
Goodday everyone.Couldn't get on all day today. Thunderstorms, rain, wind, lightening, The whole none yards. Had the computer unplugged. Saves on blown memory Etc, Sun is shining now.

Blah, Thank you for your kind comments. you're dead on, those highlights need taming in some spots. By the way I always refer to Jack as "That golfing guy" not Bear.

Anita, leopard is moving right along. You'll get it sorted out to your satisfaction. And congratulations on your Son's achievement. I can tell you're mighty proud of him.

Connie, Ogden Nash would have been proud of you!! Wonderful purple Buffalo!

Paula, Great dog! He's a real beauty.

Sults, Kitten is progression nicely. Like his cheeks. Can't wait to see it finished.

CJ, You really neeed to take it eawy. If you keep it up you'll be missing more than one day's work. Relax. The work will be there when you get back. No one will take it away from you.

Michelle. I also have a floater in my right eye. Only bothers me when I look at something that is backlit. Have learned to live with it I guess. I never see it most of the time.

I've reworked bear a little. Darkened it, and reworked the fur somewhat. Still not pleased with it, but then I'm not supposed to I guess. But On the other hand, my dear departed mother would have thought someone else had drawn it! LOL. Anyone else know what that is or was?


Cathie Jones
08-18-2005, 06:22 PM
Chuck, I can't believe I'm saying this . . . but I think Bear needs more darks. The face looks flat, and I think darkening some spots, plus grounding underneath a little, would make it better. Hold the photo very close to the drawing and I think you'll see the value difference. Great looking dog, by the way! I'd like to have a golden someday.

08-18-2005, 06:28 PM
Chaz, i agree with Cathie...it looks flat. but your reference photo isn't the best. believe me when i say a poor reference pic can give a person fits!

08-18-2005, 07:33 PM
Billie, CJ, I think you're both right. The drawing looks good here in my little studio (LOL), but when I took it out side to shoot it, it did look a little flat. I think I'll sit on this a while then comeback to it later and see what I think. Actually, I'm sick of it right now. LOL

Thanks both of you. I appreciate it.

Fireman's kid
08-18-2005, 07:50 PM
Hi all! I'm back from my parent's house. I didn't get online much when I was there. We were pretty busy but also they have a dial-up connection whereas I have a cable modem at home. I couldn't stand the slow loading speed. :eek: I know, I'm spoiled! :D

Everyone is doing so great with their fur drawings. Even Anita who said she had trouble with fur. Come one people! I don't want to fail this class a second time alone! :rolleyes:

Sults - Your collie is fantabulous! And the kitty is coming along great. Thanks for the instructions and the link to the article. I'll be studying both before I give this lesson a try.

Anita - the changes to your leopard look GREAT! I thought the first pic of him looked like he was very surprised, but now he looks like a leopard should.

Michelle - sorry to hear about your eyes. Hope you got to the doctor and he fixed them up. It sounded like you had a great time at the workshop. Will you be posting any of your paintings here or in your blog?

Mary - Those eyes are amazing! They jumped right out at me. Can't wait to see more.

Hi Blah! :wave: Good to see you here. I'll have to go have a look at your post in the last lesson.

Hi Barbara! :wave: Sorry things haven't improved with your in-laws. Hope they get better soon and we see you in the Troy-led 101 classes.

CJ - Sorry to hear about the pneumonia. It seems like a strange time of year for it. I always thought it was a winter illness. Hope you feel better real soon.

Paula - I love your drawing of the Bernese Mountain dog!! Thanks for the wip. I don't know how you all do such great fur. :confused: The detail overwhelms me. Maybe if I study everyone elses drawings I'll learn something.

Chuck - The updates on the Bear look great. He has such a sad expression. I just love Goldens. If ever I got a dog it would be a golden retriever. They are such sweet dogs.

Connie - Good job on the buffalo! I saw one when I visited Yellowstone and you are right...I never looked at his backlegs! I was too worried about what direction he was headed. Your colored version is fun - so creative!

Hi Jay, Troy, Bon, Dave, Judi and Billie! :wave: I hope I didn't forget anyone!

I worked on the glass lesson over the last few days. Will try to post my drawing tonight or tomorrow (in whatever lesson that was). Then maybe I'll start on some fur. :cat:

08-18-2005, 09:15 PM
Hi All :wave:
Mary! Can't wait to watch the progress on Botas! Those eyes are so fantastic-you are picking up the cp with ease. (I'm slower if it makes you feel any better-my only start in this Class is the orag utan-and ya know he had a head start :( )

Anita-he is looking grand-HOW did you get the bg so black and smooth?

Chaz, Your buddy Bear is coming along beautifully too! CJ's advice is right on.

08-18-2005, 09:32 PM
Chaz, go back and look at your dog's muzzle--I did this with Bailey--very very fine fur which follows the contours of the muzzle back toward the head and around the eyes.

08-18-2005, 09:35 PM
Actually, Anitah-tha--Cheetah--you cat looks very much like a libertarian (an american political reformist type party). They are always being photograph looking thoughtfully in to the void. Your cat is great--the eyes have it!!

Hi, Paul--Nail the tail, Girl!!! Nail the Tail--the rest is fabulous--ESPECIALLY that facial expression that you have managed to capture.

08-18-2005, 09:37 PM
Actually, Anitah-tha--Cheetah--you cat looks very much like a libertarian (an american political reformist type party). They are always being photograph looking thoughtfully in to the void. Your cat is great--the eyes have it!!

Hi, Paula--Nail the tail, Girl!!! Nail the Tail--the rest is fabulous--ESPECIALLY that facial expression that you have managed to capture.

Anita Murphy
08-18-2005, 09:54 PM
JayD - its a leopard! Does that mean its bad that you can't recognise it?

Chuck - I think bear is looking great so far. His face is a little fat but I think that just needs more shading.

Stacy - I was determined to get it this time. I did so badly at the animal class. I refuse to be beaten by a piece of paper and some graphite! :D Good to have you back!

Judi - I got the black like that using a 6B pencil and then using cotton buds to blend and then adding more layers. It is really shiny now.

Hi everyone else

Oh and I forgot - COnnie I love the purple bison! He rocks!!!!!!!

08-18-2005, 09:55 PM
No, it means I cant rhyme Anita with Leopard. :D

Mary Woodul
08-18-2005, 11:06 PM
Thank you CJ, Anita, Stacy and Judi.

Anita your update looks great on that black background.

Chuck, your dog looks like a swell dog.

JayD, I'm almost finished with you house and yard. I love those trees you have and to think you have more in back. The sound must be beautiful with a breeze.

Judi, the trouble with my cat is the white part, I don't know if putting just white CP and shading is enough to make the white stand out. I'll work on that tomorrow. He has a great deal of white.

Mary Woodul
08-19-2005, 06:48 AM
Happy Birthday, Troy!!!


08-19-2005, 06:57 AM
You beat me to it Mary! :D

Happy Birthday Troy!

Anita Murphy
08-19-2005, 08:16 AM
Happy Birthday Troy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are we having a party?

08-19-2005, 08:38 AM
:clap: Happy Birthday Troy! :clap:

Thanks again everyone for the nice comments on the Bernese! :)

Mary - I think your cat is coming along so beautifully. It's already a beautiful drawing just as it is. CP is something I've always wanted to try, but haven't worked up the courage yet! You seem to be getting the hang of them very naturally. :)

Anita, the changes you've made to your leopard are perfect! He looks dignified and interested now and not so scared. LOL You're doing such a great job on him.

Chuck - Bear is looking good! I agree with CJ and Billie - I think you need to go even darker on those deep golden areas and the shading on his face. One small thing I notice - I think you've made Bear's nose (not his muzzle, just his nose) just a bit too small. In your reference, it looks like Bear has broader, more rounded nose. You might try making it a little bigger, widening the edges and tapering them down toward the bottom - almost like a big, fat, inflated "T" (I hope you know what I mean! LOL). Also, try to lifting out some graphite with a kneaded eraser and pull some highlight there on the front of his nose. It will really give a sense of the curvature of his nose. :)

I love the work you've done on his coat and ears - beautifully soft and silky looking. :) He's coming along so well. :)

Cathie Jones
08-19-2005, 08:43 AM
WooHoo . . . we're havin' a party for Troy!!

Hippo Birdie Two Ewes, Troy!!


08-19-2005, 10:14 AM
Wow sorry guys I did not get back all day, been hectic here.
Ty & just want to say...
:clap: :clap: :clap:
:clap: :clap: :clap:

08-19-2005, 10:24 AM
I just went back and saw Botas, Wow those eyes are spectacular Mary. :)

Anita, you sure did change your leopard for the better, he/she looks really nice now.

Chuck, Your getting a nice fur action but one thing you can do is, look for another picture that is the same breed as your beautiful dog. Study the bone structure, look back at your ref photo and try to see where your tone values would be enhanced. Its very hard for you to show a good contrast with your ref pic. Once you have found the tonal values map them out lightly on your rendering. ( To help you with what would be the Darkest tone you can write a very light D. Next is your mid Darks so you can do it like I am, I have took 3 mid darks 1 being my darkest mid to 3 being my lightest mid dark. When you view the new ref pic you pick out, you will see mid tones that are not the same mid darks. To locate them in your map, put MD1 , MD2, MD3. Once you have that mapped out, you will know where to apply your tones and not go to one tone. Now for the Highlights do the same as in H1, H2, H3. Do not mark the brightest Highlight it will stay blank. By the time your done you will have rendering that looks like a paint by number but believe me, it will help you to apply the tones. Hope this helps. You may not need the letters, but see for me, if I just map out the geo shapes I forget what is what ( I am bad at that). So by having the shades written out in abrev, I am able to work smoother on applying my fur shades.

08-19-2005, 10:27 AM
First off, Happy Birthday Troy. Have a good one :D

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions on Bear. I'm leaving for a week to go to upper Michigan so I won't have the opportunity to put them in effect, But i have written them down in my drawing notebook under Bear, and will work on them when I get back.

I won't be able to post any drrawings while I'm gone, but I can lurk a little at times. Have a good weekend everyone.


Fireman's kid
08-19-2005, 11:01 AM
Happy Birthday Troy!!


Chuck, have a nice time in Michigan! :wave:

Anita Murphy
08-19-2005, 11:33 AM
Hi everybody!

Well I think I am done with my leopard unless anyone can come up with something else that needs doing.

On to long fur ...............

08-19-2005, 11:43 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, TROY!!! I will have ice cream in honor of the celebration.

Chuck - you know how to improve that Golden, but even now he has that loving expression that breed of dog can show. The fur is so soft and silky, you must have just given him a bath.
Paula - that demonstration helps so much. I am not sure that I can put that much work on one drawing, guess I have to cultivate more patience.
Anita - that leopard has grown up in a hurry. He was a scared little cub a few days ago, now looks like King of the Zoo. The whiskers are just one part but help make him complete.
Mary - my first thought was that you were doing a Cheshire cat, but maybe that isn't the part that was left when he disappeared. Love the color, probably will need a dark background to make him show well.
My modernistic bison seems to have made a hit - even with 4 year olds.
There are a lot of photos of animals for the WDE this time, I will probably be doing one there, will post here as wll if I do.

08-19-2005, 12:09 PM
Happy Birthday, Troy!

Anita, I think the fur on your leopard is excellent...really good texture.

08-19-2005, 12:12 PM
Take care Chuck, & have a nice time.

Hiyas Connie :)

Anita good job on those eyes & fur, gf, :) One thing I do see is that I do not know where your light source is coming from on the nose, I do it see it on the cheeks. Can you enhance that? By darkening the shadow side? Do not change your fur strokes, just try to give them a darker wash layer over on just the shaded side.

Cathie Jones
08-19-2005, 12:46 PM
WOW! AnitaCheetah you really put a fantastic finish on that leopard. He's gorgeous! Perfect finish (except what Sults said, I didn't catch that one).


Anita Murphy
08-19-2005, 12:50 PM
Thank you Connie, Dave, Sults and CJ! I'm secretly quite proud of this one! AND my husband said I should frame it - from him that is HIGH praise!!!!

CJ - how are you feeling?

08-19-2005, 12:55 PM
Anita-That he wants to frame it simply meants he is developing good taste in art, as you said he usually doesn't care for your art. Your leopard is so wonderful, as all your work is. Where are you going to hang him? (the leopard I mean) :D

08-19-2005, 01:06 PM

08-19-2005, 01:09 PM
Anita, Frame it I agree :), I thought about it, and I was comparing your nose tonal values to the cheek tonal values and forgetting that the muzzle and nose are a different lighter color. So please do disregard my last post (I am admitting I am WRONG). sorry gf.

08-19-2005, 01:11 PM
One thing I do see is that I do not know where your light source is coming from on the nose, I do it see it on the cheeks. Can you enhance that? By darkening the shadow side? Do not change your fur strokes, just try to give them a darker wash layer over on just the shaded side.

Isn't the light straight on? I mean, from behind the viewer.

08-19-2005, 01:15 PM
Anita, you brought your leopard drawing home with style! definitely frame worthy! he doesn't looked scared at all now.;)

08-19-2005, 01:23 PM
Dave, I think your right but if you look at the eyes she has the lightest highlights very high so it is front on but above.
Infact, Anita, It looks, IMO, he/she is looking at the light. :)

Cathie Jones
08-19-2005, 01:48 PM
Where are you going to hang him? (the leopard I mean) :D

HMPFFFFF . . . I'd hang the other one, too!! :evil: Ever thought about sending him to an art appreciation class?

Feeling a little better every day, Anita. Thanks for asking. Feeling like being up and around is a good thing - keeps the gunk stirred up instead of settling!! (TMI?)

Mary Woodul
08-19-2005, 02:17 PM
Thank You Paula,Sults, and Connie.

Anita, I think your Cheetah is the best I have seen from you and I have seen very good ones. I was just going to write and say that it was a good thing Judi clarified who you were going to hang, when I read CJ's. :D :D :D :clap:

08-19-2005, 02:50 PM
Anita your cat is stunning!:clap: tyree

08-19-2005, 02:52 PM
A Very Happy Birthday Troy :angel: tyree

08-19-2005, 08:36 PM
I've been working on my short haired dog this evening. I seem to have misplaced my box of pencils, so I've been working from the ones in my watercolor stuff, which are all either HB or 2B. I wish I could find my darker ones, but my art room is such a mess....

Anita, and Chuck, I have to tell you both how terrific the leopard and "Bear" came out. Super work! :clap:

I'm still looking through a cobweb of "floaters". The eye doc said that most of it should clear up in a couple of weeks, and that any that are left my brain will learn to ignore.

Help!!!! I can't upload the image. I never had any trouble uploading before but the new image uploader does not work for me. I can pull the image up on the uploader, but nothing happens when I click on it.


08-19-2005, 08:42 PM
I'm trying the attachment thing instead.


08-19-2005, 08:44 PM
Happy birthday Troyboy!!!

Anita--leave it --it is perfection!

Sorry, I have been away, guys--forensic stuff to deal with. You are kickin' fur!!!

Mary Woodul
08-19-2005, 08:52 PM
Michelle your dog is fantastic. You rendered the smoothness of those dogs perfectly. I'm so glad that the eye problem was just that. I see little speck in my left eye but they bother me anymore.

BTW, the new image uploader does not work for me either. I use the older one.

08-19-2005, 08:58 PM
Michelle, I want your dog. I love the work you did on the eyes and that is a very soulful pose.

Oh, just wanted everyone to know that Judi, Dee and I will be rotating the hosting of the WDT so I will expect to see you all there!

08-19-2005, 09:18 PM
Michelle! :wave:
So glad there should be relief from the floaters soon. (I had never heard of such a thing b4)
I love your dog too. JayD said it just right-'soulful pose'-he is just wonderful! :clap:

Hi Mary and JayD :wave:

08-19-2005, 09:23 PM
Glad to hear you will be ok Michelle and pretty dog. Looks silky smooth.

Troy Rochford
08-19-2005, 09:32 PM
HI all. Thanks for the kind words. Sorry so short but Ive been on and off this site four times in the last 15 min due to computer crashing. Want to get this posted before it happens yet again

Mary Woodul
08-19-2005, 10:20 PM
Here is another update but now I'm in trouble with the whites. CP on ****e doesn't show and if I put some gray underneath the white CP will get dirty. Do I just try to fill in between hair. The darks have to go much darker because he is black and white. What is left to do is white.


Mary Woodul
08-19-2005, 10:23 PM
Don't know why those asterisks showed up where it is supposed to say white.

Nice to see you for seconds, Troy!!! :D

08-19-2005, 10:33 PM
Mary, I don't now anything about colored pencil, so I can't help you with the whites, but I really like the cat so far. The eyes look great and I like the black & white pettern and the expression on his/her face. Since you are working on white paper, maybe you can let the paper be your white and just add some shadows to delineate the fir.


Cathie Jones
08-19-2005, 10:35 PM
Michelle, I think I'd treat the white as if painting it - white is the paper. Just fill in the light shadows that white fur has. I went through what you're doing with the dog I did in the first animal class and messed it up trying to 'draw' white.

I need a little help with the outline for my cat. I've been having trouble with it, even using a grid, and have lost perspective. I darkened it quite a bit - using a 2H for the outline. If you can see it, can you tell if I'm getting the features even? Especially the eyes, nose and mouth. The rest will need shadow to tell what and where it is.

Ref first, then outline . . .

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2005/23460-cat_ref.sm.jpg http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/19-Aug-2005/23460-cat_outline.081905.sm.jpg

Mary Woodul
08-19-2005, 10:40 PM
Thank you Michelle and CJ, I'll work it that way, it sound more logical.

CJ, how are feeling?

08-19-2005, 11:06 PM
Happy Birthday again Troy, you missed your party! :( Hope your computer gets well soon. We miss ya!

Hi Mary :wave:
Botas is looking fabulous! OMGoodness I love the fur you have done. I love the way your pinks blend so naturally in. Wow!
When in doubt do some practicing with thumbnails till you get the look you want with your greys and white.

CJ- Good start!
The slant of the eyes measures off just fine, but the roundness is a tad off. The dip of his nose goes down too far. Re-check your measurements for the mouth after the nose dip is fixed. The fur line at the bottom of his ears crossing his forehead so to speak, needs rounded to the shape of his head.

Hi Michelle! :wave:

Cathie Jones
08-19-2005, 11:20 PM
Thanks, Judi. I can see that the nose is a little crooked, so I'll measure and do it again.

Mary, I'm not feeling too bad. Getting some sleep thanks to the cough meds. In fact, I think I'll do that now! :D

08-20-2005, 12:02 AM
Mary, I think your cat is coming along beautifully. :)

About the issue you're having with creating white...one thing I've learned from lurking in the CP forum is that white is never just white. LOL White is built upon the colors reflected in it. Does that make sense? Look at your reference and you may see blues or pinks or even yellows reflected in the white - even what appears as pure white, isn't. :confused:

I've also learned that those in the CP forum rarely use just black or grey to create blacks and greys. They use exotic and delicious sounding colors like black grape and Tuscan red, and indigo blues to build their blacks and greys.

It all sounds confusing to me. It's one reason I haven't taken the plunge and sharpened my Prismacolors. LOL

I've found a link that you might find helpful. It's all about creating grey without using a grey pencil. I thought it might help you to enrich your blacks as you go darker on the blacks of your cat. It's a fascinating process.

Grey feather (http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133164)

Hope this helps you some. :)

08-20-2005, 06:31 AM
Mary, "Bo-Tox" looks like my late-cat, Midnight. She was hit by a car and made it home badly damaged on Christmas Eve many many years ago. We could not get her to a vet so she could be put to sleep so I stayed home while the family went away to visit relatives for christmas. I sat with Midnight and played music for her until she passed awy and then I went out into a downpour of snow and buried her. What a memory. She was a real sweetheart.

Lets talk about "Sgraffito". Before you do this PRACTICE ON SCRAP PAPER". Sgrafitto is simply building up your layers of color and then adding white by removing the color by scraping using something like and x-acto knife or a razor.

1. build up the pencil colors thickly

2. start "drawing into your colors using the blade. This will porduce a thin line

3. to get a thicker line, angle the blade at about 45 degrees.

4. As you progress, keep in mind that parts of the layers that are lifted must also be offset by shadow and such in order to give the lifts depth.

Just a quick aside--adding white over a color when working in colored pencil will just "burnish" the underlying color. If you want to ADD color you can do this by using an opaque medium like white gouache.

08-20-2005, 07:26 AM
Morning all :wave:
Mary and JayD,
I did a search for Sgraffito and came up with this site. Did a search for the word again there, but I guess you would need to go into each following page to find it. But I am putting in the link anyway as it was such an
awesome site. (http://drawsketch.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=drawsketch&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.howarddavidjohnson.com%2Fpencil.htm) My jaw is still on the floor. Note that the pages takes a bit of time to load but worth it. Hard to believe these portraits are cp.

08-20-2005, 07:36 AM
I see you have discovered Howard David Johnson. You are right. Awesome is the word!

08-20-2005, 08:22 AM
Hiyas everyone, (poor Troy we partied without ya)

Mary wow you agree with cp, your Botas looks great to me. I am watching & learning because I have no idea about cp.
CJ, I agree with Judi great start on your basic sketch of your cat. I like the expression on the cat it has a lil curiosity in its eyes.

Jay, that is a sad story about Midnight and it shows how tender you are to animals.

Judi, I saw that site when Roger brought up in a thread last year, I agree such incredible work and I love the fantasy renderings too.

Mary Woodul
08-20-2005, 08:29 AM
Thank you all!

CJ, I love your cat, he looks like one I had. I should have done that with the drawing because if i show you all the reference JyaD is going to tsk,tsk, me. Promise to try to fix some little things I see.

Judi, I'm going to that site right now.

JayD, what a sad story about Midnight, it reminds me a little about Tomas, ( a yellow one) with whom I had to go through the same thing. The Sgrafitto sound great, I will try that today, thanks. BTW it seems that you have had as many cats as I have, did you ever have one that had kittens in your bed while you were sleeping?

Mary Woodul
08-20-2005, 08:32 AM
Hi Sults, we crossposted. Thank You.

Got a quick PM form Troy and he is having a terrible time with his PC, he said to say, Hi!

Mary Woodul
08-20-2005, 08:36 AM
Paula, thank you for that site also. I will have a wonderful day looking through those.

08-20-2005, 09:22 AM
No, but we thought my cat Piewacket was a boy until she had kittens.

By the way I caught all kinds of hell and ridicule for choosing to keep a dying animal company over visiting them at Christmas. I would do it again without hesitation. I almost got the living daylights beaten out of me when I defended a cat named Tripod by an ex marine. Tripod had three legs( not my cat) and he thought it was funny to watch his dog chase here up a tree--I just could not stand that. I love animals of all kinds.

Anita Murphy
08-20-2005, 09:35 AM
Sults - you had me little confused there about lighting. As he is sitting in a tree I think the light has to be from above and diffused through the leaves.

CJ - Hope you are getting betterer and betterer! Art appreciation would be wasted on him. I just see this as a breakthrough! That cat has the most amazing green eyes and his fur is going to be great to work on.

Mary - *blush* thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just love Botas eyes! How are you enjoying the CPs? I think I might do my long fur animal with CPs or maybe those Derwent Drawing Pencils Alfredart uses. I think just leaving the white is ok - the hair is so well done where it is dark that the suggestion makes you imagine the white being the same - does that make sense?

Tyree - thank you too!

Michelle - glad your eyes are not suffering anything serious. You get used to it after a while, like I said, I hardly notice mine anymore. Seriously soulful dog! I'm not much of a dog person - what breed is he?

Troy - get your computer fixed dude! We miss you!!!!!!!! Hope you had a great birthday!

JayD - perfection may be a little steep! Its not too shabby though! That is such a sad story about Midnight. Pets become so much a part of family and losing one is agony! I must have a go at trying out that sgraffito thing - not sure I like the idea of taking a knife to my paper though.

08-20-2005, 10:47 AM
Oh, yeah--about the knife--if you try this --scrape lightly do not stab and practice your jack the ripperness on scrap paper.

Mary Woodul
08-20-2005, 11:53 AM
Anita, do try the CP. I got frustrated at the beginning but I am loving it and thank JayD for his tips and enticing me to do it. Now I am very excited about the Sgraffito.

JayD, we must be very much alike when it comes to animals. I don't have any here at home anymore, because they need the proper care and I have enough work as it is. I cried so much when my 11 year old Cocker died that I said I would never have another one. I do enjoy all the ones we have at the ranch, though.

08-20-2005, 12:11 PM
Michelle, your short-haired dog is very impressive! love the look in his eyes and those velvety looking ears!! i've never drawn a short haired anything...it's got me worried.:(

Mary , great job on the little puddy! i have a female cat we called Gizmo aka Fozbot (yup, that's where i came up w/the name:)) because she was all eyes and ears like the gremlin in the movies. your kitty reminds me sooo much of her!! i'm contemplating trying CP. i'll watch to see how you handle this so i can learn, too.

CJ, glad to hear you're still on the mend. hope your back in fighting form fast!

08-20-2005, 12:12 PM
Mary, you can see that my avatar is Bailey--He is my best friend in the world--a goofy friend, mind you but I dont know what I will do if I ever lose him.

By the way, my proper is full of Jays, Cardinals, a ground hog and rabbits--and on nights and weekends--unlimited raccoonage.

Cathie, I saw that you were sick--I hope that you are now on the mend.

08-20-2005, 12:13 PM
i wondered where Troy went! i thought he was off celebrating his birthday but he's got computer probs? i'll bet he's really chaping at the bit!!!

Cathie Jones
08-20-2005, 08:37 PM
Think I'll play the avatar game, too, but mine is a photo, not drawn . . . yet . . . this is Toto, who has quite a story. He's also a best friend (along with his step-sister Peaches) who was purchased as a papered pekingese, and has turned out to be more Tibetan Spaniel!

I've been working all day, haven't had a second to work on the cat (which, by the way is from the RIL, I'm currently catless :( ). So, as usual, I'm getting behind in another class. Hopefully I'll get enough done to be able to spread some graphite tomorrow!!

Still coughing my head off, but able to sit at the computer.

08-20-2005, 08:42 PM
Cathie, you really need to draw that dog!!!!

08-20-2005, 09:02 PM
Toto and Bailey want to play???

Awe CJ I want that dog too! He is so-o-o adorable!
(We had our put down 2 years ago and still :crying: :crying: )

08-20-2005, 09:17 PM
Arf!! Arf!!

Cathie Jones
08-20-2005, 09:33 PM
JayD, I know I need to draw that dog, and I've started several times. It's harder to draw something you love - it has to be perfect. I'll get there, believe me!!

Woof woof, Bailey . . .

Yes, Judi, he's one darling dog! He was our 'don't-ever-buy-a-dog-from-a-pet-store' lesson, and we've learned a lot about puppy mills. Toto had surgery twice for cherry eye before we had him a month, and almost died the second time because of an enlarged heart. He's outgrown that now (he'll be 3 in October), but has hip dysplasia. Right now he's hell on wheels, but eventually won't be able to walk. I would gladly bomb every puppy mill on the face of the earth to stop them from creating so much pain - for both dogs and owners.

Sob story over . . . I'm gonna go on strike now and see if I can fix that cat face!

Anita Murphy
08-20-2005, 09:38 PM
CJ - My grandmother had two pekinese - called Yum-Yum and Twee - they were just the most adorable little bundles of fluff! When Yum-Yum was really old she used to sit with her tongue hanging out and my sister used to worry about her tongue getting dry so she used to drip water on it with a dropper!

Cathie Jones
08-20-2005, 10:35 PM
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/20-Aug-2005/23460-Peaches_tinyhead.jpg Anita, Peaches is my 3rd peke. (And I know she needs to be drawn, too!) She was 2 in April, and is a real blonde! That pup is such a love, but she's really dumb!!! Before we got Toto we lost one that I had for 17 years. Had to have another one! We got Peaches from a good breeder, so there was no doubt what kind of dog she was!! LOL

Toto's 'legal' name is Chinese, and it means "Beautiful Precious Treasure." We never bothered with registering Peaches.

Gotta go draw . . . or Judi will start ignoring me. :evil:

Mary Woodul
08-20-2005, 10:44 PM
CJ, that is and adorable dog, wish he didn't have to go through so much, poor little thing.

Billie, I love the name of your cat and please try CP. It is one of those things that grows on you. I couldn't get the hang of the sgraffito yet, but little by little.

JayD, I love your Bailey, there is such a faithfulness in his eyes.

Hi, Judi, Anita and Sults. :wave:

I've had a bad day and I think I have something called illiotibial band friction syndrome. It sounds fancy, but anyway, it is pain on the outside part of the knee and calf and it is from running. I just diagnozed myself, but I think that is what is bothering my knees for about two weeks.

See ya tomorrow! :wave:

08-20-2005, 11:39 PM
Wow Mary sorry to hear that, please take care of yourself. Can you get medication and physical therapy for it?

CJ, your puppies are adorable.

Well, Judi I am sorry I took so long to post this but like I told you on the phone it is not looking right. I just saw I have the muzzle crooked again. :( I need to Anyways this needs alot more layering for the fur too. I was not able to work on her for a few days till tonight. I used white pencil (dipped in white out) for the eyes.


Cathie Jones
08-21-2005, 12:07 AM
Sults, that little guy is adorable!! I'd take him home in a minute!!

I almost hate to post this thing after your beautiful drawing . . . but I gotta!

I practiced a cat eye. It has Graphitint, CP and graphite, and isn't the color my final will be. In the scan I can see that I wasn't patient enough and there is still some white showing through - didn't get it completely covered. Otherwise, how is the eyeball? I didn't pay much attention at all to the outside.


08-21-2005, 12:11 AM
CJ, excellent cat eye!!! i gotta try CP's!!! what's Graphitint?

Cathie Jones
08-21-2005, 12:31 AM
CJ, excellent cat eye!!! i gotta try CP's!!! what's Graphitint?

Hi Billie! Here's a link to a thread I started for a Graphitint Chart: http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3772157&postcount=1. They've been available in England for a while, but just got to the US in July and still pretty scarce. They're supposed to be tinted, water soluble graphite. They are water soluble but feel more like CP or WC pencils than graphite.

I'm still thinking that CP may require more time and patience than I have, but we'll see.

Hmmmmm . . . wonder what it looks like to layer Graphitint and WC pencil and wet it????

08-21-2005, 07:24 AM
hmmmm...cathie....give it a try!!!!!

OH, I order the huge full set of graphitint--I got confirmation that I will have it this week--oh, it is time to play!!!!!!!

Mary Woodul
08-21-2005, 08:36 AM
Sults, I love your kitties eyes, you always draw the most expressive eyes. What is white out, is it corrector ink?. Thank you Sults, I'm taking a anti- inflammitory but I will go to the Dr. this week.

CJ, your coming along. I just found out with this last CP that it is very important to layer very lightly at the beginning. You have all the know how about color from water color, so you should do beautifully.

Hi! Billie and JayD! :wave:

Anita Murphy
08-21-2005, 10:30 AM
Mary- take care and rest that leg properly so it doesn't get any worse!

Sults - I think your kitten is adorable!

CJ - super eye!

Hi JayD, Billie, Judi, Dave, Troy (hope you get the computer fixed!!!!!!), Michele, Stacy and everyone else.

08-21-2005, 11:40 AM
Wow CJ great eye, I love it.
Ty, Mary and glad your going to the doctor. Oh to answer your question.. Yes white out is corrective ink for typing and it gets very thick I watered it down. I wanted to use white acrylic paint but did not have any so I thought I would try that instead. bad mistake.
Don't use it. you will be sorry.
Ty, Anita....
Umm sorry I scratched off that gummy white out I did not like it after all. Have done the eyes over yet again.

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 12:25 PM
Great work everyone! CJ hope all is well. Mary if your self diagnosis involves home knee surgery performed with garden tools, how about getting a second opinion, huh?;)

Judi - when I read your comment "hard to believe this work is cp" I immediately thought of Howard David Johnson, and then Jay confirmed in the next post that you were indeed referring to him. I thought he was a member here, actually, but I guess I'm mistaken. His work is ridiculously realistic. I don't visit his site much though, because it takes so insanely long to load. With my current computer probs, I'm not going anywhere NEAR that site!! lol

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 12:28 PM
Sults why don't you try white conte for the eye highlights?

Anita Murphy
08-21-2005, 12:35 PM
why don't you try white conte for the eye highlights?

Troy does this work? I tried adding white to my leopard and it just went grey.

08-21-2005, 02:54 PM
I think the best solution for getting your highlights is establishing them in the first place and keeping the graphite off :D (ducking the tomatos)

08-21-2005, 03:14 PM
lol, gf, I can throw low tomatoes too :evil: Hey you live & learn, Its so hard to blend in small areas with a chamios. I think I will try cutting out my highlights with masking tape next time & then blend.

Good to see ya Troy, even just for a sec.

Wow I just saw "Sin City" woe what an action packed B/W gory film. My nerves are still tight and I think the poor arm chair has my nail marks dug in deep.

08-21-2005, 03:25 PM
Sorry Sults-j/k-just goofing off-lol :D
I want to get some of that frisket(?) liquid

Hi Troy!-Nice to see you :wave: .... :( bye

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 03:38 PM
Judi whats with the frown? For frisket you can get Incredible White Mask liquid at any half way decent art store. It's usually with the paint stuff.

08-21-2005, 03:44 PM
The frown was I saw your light out again. Good to see you! :wave:

I am getting the frisket this week-just had to get a Michael's 40% off coupon :D Incredible White-not familiar with the name-but that very well may be what they have-didn't check out the brand.

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 03:57 PM
Michaels in my town is a joke. I guess they can't compete with the campus art stores or something, because they have stopped carrying most of their art supplies. Oh, and if you're keeping score - here we go again with the constant internet disconnects....

08-21-2005, 04:02 PM
Well Michael's is all we have here and a minute from work. If they don't have someting I go thru the internet.
Yeah-I guess it would be a joke there -LUCKY YOU! :envy: :envy:

08-21-2005, 04:02 PM
Michelle...your short-fur dog has very expressive eyes which you have captured marvelously. I also like the way you have drawn the smooth contours.

Mary...what I can see of your cat drawing (#123) looks good, except near the nose. But then I think you had just started on that part when you posted.

Sultry....your cat drawing has life, the eyes in particular. I also admire the rich tone and depth of the entire drawing.

Cathie...the top part of the eye (the portion above the pupil) looks wonderful, but I am not too sure about the lower half. To me the upper portion with the lovely highlight looks rounded, while the lower half looks flat.

I am posting a pencil drawing (2B and 4B) of a lovely photograph titled Molly contributed by Angela J to our RIL (thank you Angela). I hope it qualifies as long fur.


08-21-2005, 04:18 PM
Troy does this work? I tried adding white to my leopard and it just went grey.

Anita....Lisa Ober (Peoplepainter) recommends licking the sharp end of a white conte pencil and then applying it to get a really white highlight. This was in the portrait classroom in the thread on drawing eyes (Portraiture forum).


08-21-2005, 04:21 PM
Hi Blah!!!
How are you doing?
Oh Great Master of Lines-this is beautiful! Definatley long fur. Though I think you could add some layers for a more finished look in lieu of a sketched look.

Guys I am participating in this class, I just can't post it here-yet-till I get permission. Found a better link I believe that will get me to the original artist-maybe tomorrow :rolleyes:

Mary Woodul
08-21-2005, 04:21 PM
Mary if your self diagnosis involves home knee surgery performed with garden tools, how about getting a second opinion, huh?

Well Troy, I was down on my knees thanking God for having met you.........and see what happened. :evil:

Blah, that is gorgeous dog and beautifully rendered.

08-21-2005, 04:22 PM
Michelle -that dog is so smooth I feel as though I can run my hand over the contours of his body. And he is looking a little sad, as though he wishes he had some company.
CJ - I have a hard time judging a light drawing. So many times I have painted something then seen that the lines were way off. But the cat looks fine to me. You seem worried about not covering the paper in the eye thoroughly, but to me that looks like a glint, planned to help model the shape.
Sults - you have put in each hair one at a time. I get much too impatient to do all that.
Mary - I know cp needs that kind of patience,too, and you are on top of that with all this fur, keep getting darks, the white will fill itself mostly.
Blah - did this dog just come from the groomer's? Such well trained long hair.
I probably need something like the Sgraffito for the sheep in my drawing. He is sooo messy. But I didn't want to abandon the pig. The paper for the horses is watercolor paper, with several colors poured on, paper dried, then used compressed charcoal in black and white and red conte crayon for the horses.

08-21-2005, 04:24 PM
Hi Mary! :wave:
Sorry we cross posted. Hope you knee is doing better.
Hope the doctor can help you out-Till then rest well-leg up-sketchpad on lap-very theraputic. :)

Cathie Jones
08-21-2005, 04:24 PM
Hi Blah! Good to see you. Molly is a beauty and sure looks like long fur from here!

I see what you mean about the eye. I definitely didn't put enough time and light layers into this one. However (and if any of you ever tell the watercolor people I said this I'll track you down!!) I've tried watercolor pan, watercolor pencil, soft pastel, Graphitint and CP - in combinations - and like the CP best. Stonehenge is really crummy paper for watercolor, so I may try it again on better wc paper with good wc's. I think there's a cat eye demo in the watercolor forum.

JUDI! Before you try anything else, follow this link http://www.jerrysartarama.com/art-supply/catalogs/0059781000000 to the MasquePen page at Jerry's Artarama (same as Art Supply Warehouse, I think). It's made by some WC! people in the UK and is terrific. It's light blue so you can always see where it is, it dries quickly and removes well. You can get it with just one tip or with a set of the. It has a pin stopper so the top is never clogged. I love this stuff!!

Getting back to work now . . . deadline is Friday for the boss, Thursday night for me!

LOLOLOL . . . talk about cross-posting - I think we're all here at the same time!!

Connie, I love the pig and sheep! What a cute picture, and you certainly did it justice.

Judi, if you don't post something soon, we'll have to ignore you!! No more talk, now - - get busy!:evil:

08-21-2005, 04:29 PM
Hi CJ-thanks for the link!

Anita Murphy
08-21-2005, 05:03 PM
Blah - super dog - and I call that long hair.
Connie - I love the pig!

08-21-2005, 05:49 PM
Connie-lol I love the pig nipping at the goat-did you do this from your head? adorable! I like the horses too.

Judi, if you don't post something soon, we'll have to ignore you!! No more talk, now - - get busy!:evil:
LOL CJ :wink2: I am working on him-first i had to do the WDT first. Wish you all could have joined in as it was JayD's house. :evil: :evil:
Good news-since I last logged off-I got an e-mail from an organization who told where I may be able to get a hold of the artist-excited about that. When I am done with my drawing, if I have not gotten permission to post him, you can be sure I will e-mail him to YOU so you will not ignore me-in case in the meantime you decide to. :D
Please do not ignore me :crying: :crying:

08-21-2005, 05:53 PM
Connie, Pigs and horse have fur?--well technically no but fur is a type of hair--good work--its a keeper.

Blah, love the fur work on the collie!

08-21-2005, 06:03 PM
Blah, you did a terrific job on Mollie! I love it! I had looked for Mollie in the reference library, but I guess I didn't look hard enough. I had seen several watercolors of her on the watercolor forum and thought she would make a good subject for this lesson. I found this dog instead, and so here is my long haired dog.

Michelle http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/21-Aug-2005/20035-LonghairedDogDrawing.jpg

08-21-2005, 06:43 PM
Blah, I am sorry if I commented incorrectly. It is not that I did not love Molly, because I did. I just....never mind :o :o

Hi Michelle! Such a wonderful dog-lol-definatley a long haired one at that.

Well (CJ!) :D The e-mail yeilded me results-I just talked to the artist and got permission to post! Again, the stipulation is she wants to see him. :eek: She told me she does all her work on soft museum board and the original was three times the size of mine-so I may have trouble with the detail. I think I will try the prisma verithins for that.

LOL- the original Orang utan's name ia LA Louie by Jan Henderson of Salt Lake, Utah, but not liking the initals LA :wink2: and the ex's name is Louie-I am calling him...hold on to your seats...Orang utan! Like it? :D So I can now post! Sigh...and CJ will talk to me again. :)


Cathie Jones
08-21-2005, 06:51 PM
Good long-haired dog, Michelle. He/She looks soooooo sad . . .

:clap: :clap: :clap: Judi, your orang is stupendous! And I would never really ignore you, I WUB you!:D You've really put in some work on this guy!

I'm tired of spinning my wheels with the cat. She's gonna be CP and that's that. Stonehenge just doesn't like water - it melts and shreds and makes an awful looking mess. Also . . . don't use masque on Stonehenge. Same thing when you try to remove it - shreds the paper. So, rather than start on wc paper, I'm starting on new Stonehenge and using CP and dry Graphitint. Don't have enough Graphitint to use that alone, but they work well with CP. Might get this baby finished my the middle of the next class!!!

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 06:57 PM
Judi I'm confused - who did the monkey? you or this other person? It looks really good, either way.

08-21-2005, 06:58 PM
hi everybody!:wave: i've been watching all the progress and there's been lots!

Blah, great work on the collie! is it finished or are you going to do some more blending on the fur? i couldn't tell from what i saw posted.

Connie, where do you get such great references or do you draw these from imagination? love the pig w/sheep! interesting colors you chose for the two horses. i like it!!!:)

Michelle, beautiful sheep dog! i think they always look like bearded old men. you captured that look! also the one eye showing is excellent!

Judi, what can i say about Orang utan? WOW!!! :clap: CP..right? wonderful work!

Anita Murphy
08-21-2005, 07:07 PM
Lovely Michele!

Judi - this is just beautiful! Let us know what the original artist thinks, please!

08-21-2005, 07:11 PM
Sigh again CJ-Glad to have you talking to me again-that was one long hour of silence! :D Thanks
Don't feel bad-my short haired on will probably be late too. :)

Troy, Thanks, the posted one is mine-I will post the ref with the next WIP-just didn't think of it I was so glad to post that I was working on it.

Fozzie, Thanks, yes CP

Anita, Thanks, I have a long way to go yet-but i will let you know on that.

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 07:20 PM
Sometimes I wish I were covered in orange fur.

08-21-2005, 07:22 PM
Covered w/ orange fur and being chased by a big blue boat and shark?

08-21-2005, 07:38 PM
Well, I just wrote a rather long comment that disappeared into cyberspace.

Thanks all for the comments on both my dogs.

CJ, sorry about your problems with the paper and the masking. Are you starting the cat over?

Judi, your orang is terrific! I'm glad you got permission to use him.

Connie, good job on the goat and sheep.


Mary Woodul
08-21-2005, 08:05 PM
Connie your horses are an eye treat, I love the palette.

Michelle, I just love your dog, he or she looks like she doesn't want to move so the hair won't get out of place. That peeking eye is fantastic.

Judi, no wonder you wanted to wait on that orang utan. That is some work your doing on it. It is already looking great.

Here is botas again but I know he is not finished. I have to put in a background so that the whiskers will show and I have to Push the darks still some. I want to start on the long haired one tomorrow so I'll let this one rest a bit.


08-21-2005, 08:13 PM
Hey A/all :) & ty for comments to all who did.
Blah I like fur you have rendered the feel of soft long flowing collie fur.

Michelle, wow another dog, and you too have the long flow of fur so silky looking.

Troy I did find a another white pencil in my art supplies, It is General white charcoal. Will that do?

Judi, wow gf your Every Which Way but Loose Fella is looking really Great !

Connie I like the texture you have on the horses and the composition of the angle you did them too. Hey cute piggy and sheep.

Hey Mary we xposted and I love Botas this looks beautiful ( I love cats). :)

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 08:15 PM
Cat looks great Mary!!! Did you push the pink in his nose?;)

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 08:19 PM
Sults - I was in a hurry when I suggested conte to you, but look through this thread - someone posted after me and elaborated on how to go about using the conte. That info is correct, and you should check out the tutorial on this site that was mentioned. One thing though - you still need to make an effort to leave the white of the paper for your highlights and keep them clean. If you let the highlights get all dirty, then white conte or white charcoal probably isn't going to produce clean highlights.

08-21-2005, 08:23 PM
Yeah I found that out :(

Mary Woodul
08-21-2005, 08:27 PM
Thanks, Sults and Troy. Troy, did that mean I need to push the pinks or did Ipush them too much? :wink2:

Troy Rochford
08-21-2005, 08:29 PM
I was joking Mary. Sults, you better go look at my eye!!!!!!! ;)

08-21-2005, 08:59 PM
Yes Sir (inserts saluting :) here).

08-21-2005, 09:35 PM
Gee Sults-It just hit me that others commented on your cat-I would not have been able to sleep tonite if I did not get back on and look for your cat-no wonder I missed her-4 pages back. :eek: Busy thread today!
So I want to say she is looking great! Love the glass look of her eyes. :clap: Oh Great Queen of fur! :cat: :cat: :cat:
edit: I missed commenting-not seeing her.

08-21-2005, 09:55 PM
sultry, i also missed your cat! sorry!:( very nice job. love the eyes. very soulful. i would have used white-out, too. i can never keep my white paper clean even when i use something to rest my hand on. if i can i usually darken around the highlights to make the dirty white look like clean white..sorta.

Cathie Jones
08-22-2005, 12:08 AM
I'm not liking the way this is going so far, but thought I should post a progress report. I'm hoping CP has an 'ugly stage' that you can recover from if you keep going, but since his eyes are not even it doesn't look hopeful.

Back to work tomorrow, so I'll have some time away from the kitty to think about it. May start over for the 3rd time . . .

'nite all -

08-22-2005, 07:14 AM
cp has a VERY ugly stage so do not worry, you are doing fine. Dont forget that eyes are spheres. I like the gentle touch with the line work. Something to admire, dont you know.

08-22-2005, 07:21 AM
Michelle, old english sheepdog--that is a great drawing and you have nailed the fur.

Judi, use the verithins in the last stage--your primate is looking fine. If you are working on stonehenge and you are using the verithins, keep the touch light. This would make a great advertisemtent--He would be holding a cup of coffee and a jar of Coffeemate with a caption reading: "primates go ape for Coffeemate!"

Mary, that cat is cookin. You do need to push the darks but do this slowly--you have all week, you know. I am not convinced that you need a background for this piece.

Mary Woodul
08-22-2005, 07:50 AM
CJ, your coming along fine, just get over the frustrating part buy doing it lightly like you are doing over and over.

Thank you JayD, I will do that then and leave the bg out.

Anita Murphy
08-22-2005, 08:48 AM
JayD - going to argue with you over breed of Michele's dog - don't think its an Old English Sheepdog.

Mary - think Botas nose is great - reminds me of my old cat, Bandit.

CJ - coming on well - the hair in the ears is great and what green eyes!

Fireman's kid
08-22-2005, 09:05 AM
Wow busy thread! No matter how many classes we have I keep being surprised by how much you all draw and post. Maybe if I give up sleeping I can keep up. :D

Sults - your kitty is looking great, very sweet. Are you still adding darks and highlights? There is a lot of mid tone there.

Blah - I love your dog! Great long fur! I had to chuckle when I saw some mention "finishing" him more because I remember back in the first classes when Jay was saying "Be looser! Be looser!". I would say you have been very successful loosening up. :)

Michelle - I love your long haired dog too. Although I agree s/he looks sad. I want to give him a hug. :crying: It seems like your eye problems aren't keeping you from making great art. That's good!

Mary - sorry to hear about your leg problems! That will teach you not to be so thankful for Troy! :evil: Botas turned out great! I see you resolved your issues with the white fur. I knew you'd figure it out.

Judi - your orang is coming along soooooo good. Can't imagine how much time you have already put in. So glad you got permission to share him.

CJ - I think your cat looks fine. Love the pink in the ears. Isn't it hard to work slow with CPs after the speed of watercolors? That's one thing I struggle with with graphite. It takes so long to look like something. Oh, and I won't tell the watercolor people about the CP as long as you don't start ignoring me. :D :p (I haven't posted a drawing in a current class in months!)

Connie - I think I am awarding you the Creativity award! You always do something different whether it is a unique compostition or a different approach/media. How do you think this stuff up?!? Your pig looks like he wants to play, but I don't think the sheep is interested. :D

Now that I'm caught up on commenting, I'm off to get on the treadmill. I overslept this morning and missed my morning walk outside. :mad: See you all later! :wave:

08-22-2005, 10:39 AM
Morning Stacy :), I agree with you on the midtones, I am trying to figure out how to darken the darks but not blend them so much as to lose them in the mid tone range. I will post an update if I figure it out. lol Also the pulling out the midtone with an eraser is not doing the trick either.

08-22-2005, 11:10 AM
Hey, Anita--you will get no argument from me on this one--any idea though what kind it is?

08-22-2005, 11:22 AM
Hi everyone,

All the fur looks great. I'm still plugging away at a couple of things, but don't have anything that is post-worthy.

Jay-D, I think the dog is a bearded collie. I used to pet-sit for two of those and it looks an awful lot like them. They actually got haircuts once and you would have never known they were the same dogs--talk about a make-under.


08-22-2005, 12:10 PM
Michelle - you have a real talent for dogs. That eye makes the whole thing live, but the hair if flowing and silky - whatever kind it may be.
Judi - The orang looks fun. Lots of long hair, still a good expression.
Mary - you have certainly mastered white fur. I am glad Jay suggested not doing a background. That could be tedious after all this delicate drawing.
CJ - I had to look very carefully to see what you meant about the eyes not being even. But you will feel better about the finish if you can do this over.
The drawings I submitted, the horses and the pig and sheep, are from this week's WDE (always listed on the home page.) Jay doesn't think they qualify as fur, but what are they then? My son-in-law has very long, blue hair. Would that work?

Cathie Jones
08-22-2005, 01:04 PM
Thanks for the encouragement - I always needed it at the watercolor ugly stage, too!

Connie, I should have explained the eye thing. One of them is rounder than the other. I think it's that way in the ref, too, but it just looks funny to me. I'll continue and I'm sure it'll be okay when the fur is darker.

Stacy, CP is soooooo much slower than anything else, even graphite. But since I've forgotten how to paint now, it doesn't matter so much. I'd like to get all of the assignments in faster, but time just doesn't permit it. One day I'll get back to my first love and learn watercolor again, but for now it's pretty much lost.

Botas is beautiful! Looking forward to seeing what you do with it next!

Gotta run . . . work, you know. :rolleyes:

Mary Woodul
08-22-2005, 02:07 PM
Thank you Anita, Stacy, Connie and CJ
Thank you Stacy, about my knees. They are much better today. I really think I over excercised but I will go to the Dr. once I get my courage up. I have become such a chicken about Drs. :(

Hi Phoebe! :wave:

08-22-2005, 02:33 PM
I don't think "my" dog is an English sheepdog either. I found it while looking for collies, so Anne might be right about it being a bearded collie. I guess I should have paid more attention.


08-22-2005, 10:50 PM
Maybe its a collie trying to disguise itself with a beard--a spy collie?

Anita Murphy
08-22-2005, 11:09 PM
Mary rest your knees for a few days - put some an ice pack on them (bag of frozen peas works really well) - you may find that it heals itself. I am coward about doctors too, I have a hip injury but I just ignore it and hope it will go away! :D

08-22-2005, 11:33 PM
Connie, you know I am light on the rules, girl--it is good that you did them because you are right--we call them skins but if you look closeley you will see little hairs following the same rules as the fur. So dont worry--all is fine on the jay front.

Troy Rochford
08-22-2005, 11:34 PM
ignoring injuries is not cool.

08-22-2005, 11:41 PM
I have a fear of doctors too, Mary--mostly because I work for them and they can fire me!!! However, they seem to be more about promoting new pills then about healing--"physician, heal thyself!" I hope your knees feel better.

08-23-2005, 01:03 AM
Ooh, Mary, sorry to hear about your knees. I hope they continue to improve. I hate going to the doctor too and hadn't been to one in years until last week! I had an ear infection of all things, and when I realized it wasn't going to go away on it's own, I had to break down and go. I ended up having to go to two doctors! LOL

Troy Rochford
08-23-2005, 01:41 AM
Uh, Mary... get down on your knees one more time and check your email. Sorry! ;)

Mary Woodul
08-23-2005, 10:58 AM
Uh, Mary... get down on your knees one more time and check your email. Sorry! ;)

Already did but not on my knees, anymore. Thanks! ;)

Mary Woodul
08-23-2005, 11:01 AM
Thank you all for the concern for my knees, I will make my appointment, today. Although, they are much better. :cat:

Anita, a bag of frozen peas, that's a new one. Do the peas ahve anything special? Or is it just just a bag of frozen, anything. Thanks.

Cathie Jones
08-23-2005, 11:12 AM
Thank you all for the concern for my knees, I will make my appointment, today. Although, they are much better. :cat:

Anita, a bag of frozen peas, that's a new one. Do the peas ahve anything special? Or is it just just a bag of frozen, anything. Thanks.

Glad you're going to the doctor (finally :evil: ). It's the frozen part of the bag of peas that helps swollen/injured body parts - peas are just more pliable than, say, broccoli or asparagus, so you can squish them around and make the bag fit the hurt area.

Good morning everyone! Worked on work last night, then worked on the kitty a little. I've found that if I work on it for more than a few minutes at a time I start going off in my own direction instead of following the ref. Looks good, but it doesn't look much like the ref. I'm thinking I'll have to leave the perfect portraiture to someone else, but will be happy if I end up with something that looks like a cat!! I'll post an update tonight.

Y'all play nice today. No running with scissors or skateboarding on the playground!!:D

Mary Woodul
08-23-2005, 11:43 AM
Have a nice day CJ, I'm going for a bag of peas. I'm looking forward to your update.

08-23-2005, 01:43 PM
Judi, Mary, Connie, Cathie, Anita, Jay, Michelle, Billie & Sultry...thank you for looking at my sketch and commenting.

Judi...at the start of each class I think that I should try out another medium or a different style of drawing, or at least take the drawing further in terms of layering and tonal values, but invariably two things happen. I feel more comfortable drawing in my own style (with lines), and I am usually short of time and manage to barely submit one or two drawings at the most per class. I have also, ever since Jay suggested it in one of the earlier classes, made it a point to try and loosen up in my drawing style. Amongst other things my interpretation of that effort is to take my drawing only upto a certain stage of completion and no further. (I don't know if I am doing the right thing.)

In other words, your comment was fair and right on the mark, and my leaving the drawing in its present stage of completion is deliberate.

Your cp drawing of the orangutan shows every sign of being fantastic.

Connie...your drawings are full of life and expression, and always very original. The pig looks very playful and seems to have a glint in its eye.

Michelle...you have done a wonderful drawing of a long-haired dog. I am not sure what breed it is, but it must surely have been the inspiration for Steve Lucas' Chewbaca.

Billie....my collie drawing is finished for now. I might go back to it a few weeks (or months later) to slightly increase the values and to give it a background. Incidentally I think it is the best animal drawing I have done to date and am quite happy with it.

Mary...Botas is looking good. I like the dark fur, the luminous eyes and the whiskers, but I don't like the portion near the nose as of now.

Cathie...I know nothing about cp and can't comment on your drawing until it is finished. By all accounts (your skill & the nature of cp) it should turn out fine once you get past this stage.

Anita...I appreciate your recalling the advise that I was given to loosen up. I have made a very conscious effort over the last few months to do just that. Whether that shows in my drawing is for others to say. There have been many occasions during the course of the Basic 101 classes when I have wanted to try a photo realistic approach, but I have put it off partly because it would probably take up more time than I have for drawing, and also because I think that at this stage it might "tighten" my approach to drawing.


08-23-2005, 02:12 PM
It's funny, Blah, that you have to force yourself not to go too far with your drawing. I have the opposite problem, and I have to force myself to work until I have a finished drawing instead of a sketch. My drawings have improved 100% since I have done this. Just lazy, I guess.


08-23-2005, 02:54 PM
I had to do one more, with real fur, just so Jay wouldn't think I am slacking off on his last class. This is from a photo of Chaucer when he was about 12 years old. He was the oldest cat my SIL had, of a whole house full. He lived about 4 more years, but is gone now. I have a problem with taking the time to finish a drawing off, getting all the details but not messing it up. I am open to all suggestions for doing this properly. I did the incising of the whiskers, but they don't really show unless you turn the paper just so. I am guessing they had to be thicker.

Anita Murphy
08-23-2005, 03:25 PM
Connie - just wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great loose style! I found that for whiskers getting them thick enough was a bother so I did the indentations over twice - problem is then they are not so free and you have to be more careful.

Mary Woodul
08-23-2005, 03:46 PM
Connie, your work on the fur is great. I also love the photograph, the clearness in his eyes is incredible.

Here is something I have been using and I have found it very effective because it has a round tip. I think I found it in an arts and crafts store and they use it for ceramics.

Anita Murphy
08-23-2005, 04:25 PM
Mary as soon as I saw those pictures I thought that I should have used a knitting needle!

This wolf is very light in his fur and I am wary of going too dark. I've used Derwent drawing pencils. Image from the ref lib.

08-23-2005, 04:34 PM
Oh, Connie, Chaucer is a beautiful cat! And you have a really good likeness in your drawing. I'm sorry his wiskers didn't show up well. I've never tried the inscribing technique, but I would think that the "dents" would have to be pretty deep to work. I know what you mean about being afraid to mess things up by working on it more, but I do think you should keep going on this. It's looking great!


08-23-2005, 04:46 PM
Anita, I love your wolf! I wanna learn colored pencils so I can do that. I can feel those yellow eyes staring at me - they have a glow. The fir is wonderful!!! And I love that sharp, pointy canine tooth. He looks very wolfish.


Mary Woodul
08-23-2005, 05:01 PM
Wow Anita, your wolf is majestic. You did and incredible job with the pencils and I like your cosshatching also. The eyes, everything about it. :clap: :clap: :clap:

08-23-2005, 05:58 PM
Anita, now THAT is just showing off! Excellent-I will show Jan--she is a werewife.

08-23-2005, 06:01 PM
Connie, yes YOU SHALL BE PUNISHED!!! Just kidding!!! What beautiful cat he is--Connie, keep working on this one and try to develop it .

08-23-2005, 07:07 PM
Hi Stacey, TY (I gave up sleeping-lol)

Connie-ty-the orang utan has been fun-just not fast.
I love your cat! agree on developing a bit, more fur layers to fill him out more-and work more on the eyes.

JayD, Ty-Will do the verithins last-working on layers and negative spaces yet.

Blah, I am just keeping my mouth shut from now on :)

CJ-he is looking good!-it will be amazing once you get out of the ugly stage and out emerges the cat you thought wasn't going to be-at least that is how I get-I think I am messing up and it simply needs more and more and more and more layers :eek:

Mary, Glad you are dong better :cat:

Anita! Love your wolf and the colors you used-he is just great! :clap:

Hope I didn't miss anybody-if so-hi everybody else :wave: :D

08-23-2005, 07:40 PM
Hiyas A/all
CJ, I am sorry I did not comment on your cat, I think your doing a great job with cp. I like how you have the tiger stripes too.
Connie I really like your graphite cat and you have the detail done well.
Anita, you will have to frame the wolf, beautiful job.

Mary Woodul
08-23-2005, 08:37 PM
Hi everyone, I just wanted to thank you for worrying about my knee. The Xray showed no problem exept some inflamation underneath the knee cap and the Dr. said it was over straining. He told me to do the same thing my WC Drs. did and no Pilates this week. :crying: Thank you guys! :D

I'm about to finish the WDT drawing and then I will upload the reference picture of botas because I don't know how to correct his nose. It has that black spot right over it.

08-23-2005, 08:40 PM
Another long haired dog. I've wanted to do this for a long time. I tried it in watercolor once, on a quarter sheet, with disasterous results.

This was my dog, Pumpkin. Pumpkin was a combination of Shih-tzu and Miniature Schnauzer. She was a cute dog, friendly, gentle and well behaved (well, mostly). She HATED being groomed, and the reference for this was the only photo I could find, taken on a day when she looked exceptionally scruffy. My drawing is small, because the photo was small, and although I tried to make it bigger, it kept getting smaller as I made corrections.

Oh, I forgot. She had one sticking up ear, and one that hung down. :)

Michelle http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/23-Aug-2005/20035-PumpkinSmall.jpg

08-23-2005, 08:44 PM
When my knees start to go, I will have the kneecap replace so that I can unscrew it and pull out a hidden bottle of vintage scotch.

Michelle, precious--more darks please!!!!!!!!

Mary Woodul
08-23-2005, 08:54 PM
JayD, that is a great idea and that will help the pain subside, also. :evil:

Michelle, that is a darling puppy and another little hiding eye. :clap: :clap: :clap:

08-23-2005, 09:02 PM
Mary, glad to hear your knee is on the mend! Botas is turning out great!!! he reminds me SO much of my cat Gizmo! she's got that high strung look to her, too. your whisker maker looks like the ideal weapon for the job! i found an etching pen tip that's rounded at the end but it's just too fine to make good dents. i ran into the same problem Connie's having w/her whiskers when doing my WIP.

CJ, i haven't had the nerve to try CP yet so i'm not sure i can comment on your work. i think it looks good to me so far but what do i know.

Anita! your wolf is the greatest! and done in CP too, no less! your drawing is just amazing!

Connie, love the cat! you picked an excellent reference..very ambitous subject matter! you know how much i love a good cat challenge. you're doing a super job on that fur!

Michelle, Pumpkin is adorable! this dog is so neat he needs a story to go with him! he'd be great as the dog in a children's book! great job!

08-23-2005, 09:11 PM
Billie....my collie drawing is finished for now. I might go back to it a few weeks (or months later) to slightly increase the values and to give it a background. Incidentally I think it is the best animal drawing I have done to date and am quite happy with it.


Blah, i hope you didn't think i was insulting your work because i wasn't! your dog looks wonderful! i came to WC to loosen up myself but am still getting into detailed work. only myself to blame for that.

Anita Murphy
08-23-2005, 09:33 PM
Thank you everyone for the comments on Mr Wolf!

Michele - that is just the cutest little thing ever! I love the ear. Its like he's playing hide and seek!

Mary - good to hear the knee is not serious. Seem to remember from first aid classes about RICE - R = Rest, I = Ice (or frozen peas!:D), C = Compression, E = Elevation. Works for so many strains and injuries.

How is everyone doing tonight?

08-23-2005, 09:57 PM
Michelle-Pumpkin is a most adorable dog! :clap: :clap:

Hi Sults, JayD, Mary, Fozzie and Anita! :wave:

Anita Murphy
08-23-2005, 10:01 PM
hi Judi! :wave:

08-23-2005, 10:18 PM
Hi Judi! :wave:

Cathie Jones
08-23-2005, 10:49 PM
Hi Anita, Judi and Billie :wave:

Cathie Jones
08-24-2005, 01:28 AM
Didn't get to work on the cat tonight, but I did last night so here's the promised update. Thought I was doing pretty good until I found Gayle's "Eye Spy II" tutorial today. What a master she is!!!