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*Marina*
08-09-2005, 11:29 AM
I would like to start experimenting with and using an underpainting. Can I do that on Canson mi teintes paper?
Marina

Kathryn Wilson
08-09-2005, 11:31 AM
You might try using a water color, but it would have to be very, very light - it was really not designed to accept a water media and might buckle or make the paper unsuitable for painting with pastels. You can use Art Spectrum and Wallis with all sort of water-based media - watercolor, gouache, even turpenoid.

Another thought, you could use color markers - but again very lightly so as not to tear up the paper.

*Marina*
08-09-2005, 11:39 AM
I was wondering about pastels with alcohol.
Marina

Bringer
08-09-2005, 11:40 AM
Hi,

I read once that one should damp the Canson first, but I'm not sure. But I'll bet someone will give a more complete answer.

Regards,

Josť

khourianya
08-09-2005, 11:50 AM
If you stretch the canson paper first (the way you would with watercolour paper) you should be able to do a watercolour underpainting on it, provided you don't use much water.

I think you might have better luck using heavier paper for underpaintings (even using watercolour paper). I use wallis when I am underpainitng.

Kat's suggestions of coloured markers on the canson is a really good one. I've been dying to try it myself. I just need to invest in some larger flat markers...

Kathryn Wilson
08-09-2005, 12:00 PM
I was wondering about pastels with alcohol.
Marina

Unless someone else here has done this, I would not advise it. Although if you applied the pastel first, then with a small brush apply the alcohol, that might work, but as I said Canson was really not meant for liquid to be applied to it.

Why not experiment with a scrap piece of Canson to see what happens.

*Marina*
08-09-2005, 12:06 PM
My son would like a painting of a log fire. He lives in an very old (1600) student house. It has an very old fire place in it which is not in use any more. He would like to put this painting in it. I don't want to spend to much time and money on it. That is why I wondered about Canson with an underpainting. I found this picture of a log fire in the RIL. I thought that might be suitable. I wondered about underpainting the background and the orange of the fire. Maybe it is easier to paint it on black paper.
Marina

Kathryn Wilson
08-09-2005, 12:33 PM
Are you going to frame it? If not, how are you going to keep it from smudging? I think this is more a project for another medium such as acrylic.

Nori
08-09-2005, 12:54 PM
I'm with everyone else. I'd skip the Canson and go straight to Wallis. You can underpaint or tone with a variety of mediums. The pastel will stay on the Wallis tons better than on the Canson and you can build up nice texture or apply more translucent washes.

*Marina*
08-09-2005, 05:26 PM
Thanks everybody for the quick replies, much appreciated. Kat, what exactly are colourmarkers. I do agree maybe acrylics are a better medium but I haven't got those. I only started painting a couple of years ago, haven't made many yet. At the moment I have only got pastels in the house. One day I might start with acrylics. I keep telling my son that the picture needs framing. He keeps saying that doesnot matter. I would like one. Well, what do you do? He is asking me already since january So I am planning to frame it, if it ever gets finished, in a simple aluminium frame maybe with spacers or otherwise a matting.
Artspectrum and Wallis is not available in Holland. I have got some Wallis ordered via Jackie ( with postage and the bad rate of exchange it is very expensive)but haven't worked with it yet. I think this log fire is not quite the right thing to start with. You are so lucky in the States with all the art supplies available there. Pastels are not such a popular medium here in Holland. As far as paper is concerned the only paper widely available is Canson. As far as pastels are concerned Rembrandt and Schmincke are widely available.
I will experiment on a scrap piece of Canson paper with some pastel and alcohol and see what happens. I have a suspicion I won't do an underpainting and just work the way I am used to. Anyway once again thanks a lot for all the advice.
Marina

Kathryn Wilson
08-09-2005, 05:37 PM
How do you describe markers - permanent liquid color within a plastic tube with a felt tip at the end. Does that do - ?

Here's a link to markers - just something for you to look into.

http://www.dickblick.com/zz213/22/

Trilby
08-09-2005, 05:37 PM
As you have described this project, it sounds like archival paper isn't required, just sturdy. so perhaps some mat board(which is actually archival) would be a good surface. Use fixative in the underlayers to give some tooth. Also if you can order some Art spectrum gel you can make your own textured paper. You might try using a spray adhesive and mounting the Canson on illustration board. It may then take a slightly damp or nearly dry color wash, especially of alcohol.You can also use a 90# or 140# water color paper, or even a fine grained canvas. Hope these thoughts help.
TJ
TJ

*Marina*
08-09-2005, 06:01 PM
TJ, thanks for the advice. I have never thought about using matting board. I might give that a try. I will also start experimenting with water colour paper. I will let you know how I get on once I get going. At the moment they are just thoughts and wondering how I am going to tackle this project. I am still not completely sure but feel honoured that my son wants a picture. I probably have a bit of a problem with the subject and where he wants to put it but never mind. We will give it a try.
Marina